Can Holden do anything wrong

[Ratmac]

GM have stuffed up in alt of ways but at least they are still investing in holden and making better cars, they spent 1.2 billion developing the Zeta platform and the commodore variants and they are now going to invest a further 600 million in re- engineering the cruise into a hatch using better drive trains and suspension.
GM realizes they have some great talent in holden and there biggest downfall was having too many brands that just didn't perform enough as there were to many mediocre cars in the mix.
At least they are trying to further develop cars and move to the future.
What are the head honchos at ford doing ??
They have a great product in the falcon, a world class motor in the I6 and there trying to push there duratec V6 which will produce less power and most likely use more fuel ??
The falcon could be so much better that it is now and would enable it to be exported aswell, if they were invested in enough.
Ford Australia have more issues than there marketing, they need backing by there parent company, they need to be given the opportunity to show what they can do when there given the money to develop the cars properly.

[TERMINATOR X]

I don't want holden to go but my god! I just can't get over how brilliant they think they are! Like " our shi# don't stink! "
GO BETTER!
Australians and holden are tougher!
Geezes, Talk about OVERATED! their not that good! They would only have to put a holden badge on a terd and i'm sure they'd sell it!

[stockel]

Originally Posted by Ratmac

GM have stuffed up in alt of ways but at least they are still investing in holden and making better cars, they spent 1.2 billion developing the Zeta platform and the commodore variants and they are now going to invest a further 600 million in re- engineering the cruise into a hatch using better drive trains and suspension.
GM realizes they have some great talent in holden and there biggest downfall was having too many brands that just didn't perform enough as there were to many mediocre cars in the mix.
At least they are trying to further develop cars and move to the future.
What are the head honchos at ford doing ??
They have a great product in the falcon, a world class motor in the I6 and there trying to push there duratec V6 which will produce less power and most likely use more fuel ??
The falcon could be so much better that it is now and would enable it to be exported aswell, if they were invested in enough.
Ford Australia have more issues than there marketing, they need backing by there parent company, they need to be given the opportunity to show what they can do when there given the money to develop the cars properly.

Are you serious?

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by drw009

Why is it that the hard working companies not asking for billions will be the big loser in all this while the company already borrowing billions start clean slate.

Socialist Governments don't reward hard work

[Joshvee]

As someone who isn't a fanatic I just wanted to correct a few errors here,

First of all, Holden Has not gone chapter 11. It's U.S. Parent company has.
Holden Is NOT getting bailed out by the U.S. government. It's U.S. Parent company is.
In fact Holden can very comfortably survive without GM USA. Although Holden is indeed owned by GM USA, it is still a financial business entity all of its own. It has made great profit and has a solid and healthy portfolio.

Secondly, GM is not the largest car manufacturer in the world. Toyota is. In fact Toyota sold more cars in Australia than Ford and GM put together.

And thirdly, technically the US government isn't "bailing GM out" it's buying 60% of GM.

I’m shocked at even the existence of this thread. It shows the immaturity of the average Australian that they can be so blindly biased by a brand name. Holden make GREAT cars and so do Ford. But hey guess what.. Holden also make crappy cars and SO DO FORD. As does every major motor company. (except Skoda.... they only make crappy cars) :

You all say your Ford fans, well you should use that word carefully. The word Fan comes from Fanatic and the word Fanatic means: fanatic - a person motivated by irrational and illogical enthusiasm.

Your apparent hatred for Holden is both illogical and immature.

[zoomie]

Originally Posted by Joshvee

As someone who isn't a fanatic I just wanted to correct a few errors here,

First of all, Holden Has not gone chapter 11. It's U.S. Parent company has.
Holden Is NOT getting bailed out by the U.S. government. It's U.S. Parent company is.
In fact Holden can very comfortably survive without GM USA. Although Holden is indeed owned by GM USA, it is still a financial business entity all of its own. It has made great profit and has a solid and healthy portfolio.
Secondly, GM is not the largest car manufacturer in the world. Toyota is. In fact Toyota sold more cars in Australia than Ford and GM put together.

And thirdly, technically the US government isn't "bailing GM out" it's buying 60% of GM.

I’m shocked at even the existence of this thread. It shows the immaturity of the average Australian that they can be so blindly biased by a brand name. Holden make GREAT cars and so do Ford. But hey guess what.. Holden also make crappy cars and SO DO FORD. As does every major motor company. (except Skoda.... they only make crappy cars) :

You all say your Ford fans, well you should use that word carefully. The word Fan comes from Fanatic and the word Fanatic means: fanatic - a person motivated by irrational and illogical enthusiasm.

Your apparent hatred for Holden is both illogical and immature.

Holden hasnt made a single cent of "profit" since release of the VE commondore despite all its so called sales success, I mean hell look at how much they will knock of the price of a new commodore without even having to haggle with them, so there profit per commodore sold must be at a near all time low at the moment.

Where do you think they got the money to develop the VE? Oh thats right from there "parent" company GM in america. They still havnt payed back that money, thats why losing the Pontiac G8 export to the USA is a killer for them as that was going to be the big part of the repay money for the VE development costs here in australia

[Joshvee]

Originally Posted by zoomie

Holden hasnt made a single cent of "profit" since release of the VE commondore despite all its so called sales success,

ummm where do you get that piece of fiction from or are you just assuming.

[zoomie]

Originally Posted by Joshvee

ummm where do you get that piece of fiction from or are you just assuming.

Its been splashed all across the media for the past few weeks AND i have relatives that work at the elizabeth plant that have also stated that.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=63396&vf=12

Read the section thats titled does holden make money.

[Joshvee]

Originally Posted by zoomie

Its been splashed all across the media for the past few weeks AND i have relatives that work at the elizabeth plant that have also stated that.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=63396&vf=12

Read the section thats titled does holden make money.

wow i stand corrected. And this has to be true coz it was written buy "Drive" who obviously (as do your relatives who work at Holden) have access to Holdens Profits and losses Ledger before it has to hand over bucketloads of its profits to GM.

Ok enough fun. My point is, stop reacting like this is kindy. Neea neea holden suck. etc. because all were doing is making Ford "fans" look childish.

And god knows, thats Holden fans specialty

[schnoods]

Read the section thats titled does holden make money.

It does say they havent made a profit since 2004, but 2008 may have been a profitable year according to some analysts..

How true these facts are and the credibility of the analysts im not sure, but it seems that they are now recouping their investment in the VE and starting to reap the rewards.

It was around the last 4 years that they made a few bad decisions and had too big of a cheaply made lineup (Captiva, Epica, Viva and all Daewoo originated vehicles, the Cross8, Adventra, crewman, etc) and prototypes including the first attempt of HSV -427..

They will have quite a few good years coming up, profitable ones...

[greenfoam]

No Holden/Commodore forums are anywhere is near as one sided as the Ford forums. I'm not sure why Ford fans get so crazy and fanatical about a brand of car. I guess it just goes like that after some years of being the underdog. The difference between the two fan bases is very noticable that's for sure.Almost any Holden guy will tell you a BA/F are better than the VT/X/Y/Z Commodores and the VE and FG are about the same, want a V8 get a Holden, want a 6, get a Ford. but get on the Ford forums, All Holdens are crap, why does anyone buy a Commodore when they are :P etc etc. The truth is, if you wanted a Mazda 3, both the Falcon and the Commodore will be crap as they are so similar they end up being the same thing to most people. There would be lucky to be 5% difference between them in any area so saying one is no good and the other is Genius is a bit short sighted :P

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Socialist Governments don't reward hard work

Wheres the socialism?
Dont see it.
8 years of near fascism was a roaring sucess in america wasnt it. lol

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by NJXR6

Sorry to say this, but guys wake up...its an originally AUSTRALIAN company, why would they want to be negative about it? yeah they could, yeah GM screwed up bigtime and get a "get out of jail free" card, but by the sounds of it, everyone would like holden to fail?? i don't. without holden, SA goes belly up. along with the several thousand employees in other states, dealerships etc. that, and without holden, we have no-one to rag on. and why speculate on what has not happened in regards to Ford going bankrupt, and everyone saying "we told you so?". we haven't gone bankrupt, probably won't, and can take quiet satisfaction in the fact we are doing the best out of this. Ford have terrible marketing, we all know it. nothing we can do but continue to support them ourselves. if they dont make the most of "opportunities" like these, well, thats their headsup, not ours.

zactly, holden have been arround as an Australian company LONG befor it was General Motors Holden.

GM in the US going bust is a bad thing for all conserned what we need ot d oin Austrila however is make sure it doesnt happen here, Holden Ford Toyota who cares, the fact is while there being made here and we're buying them here ita all good for US.

Now more than ever its time to think local

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

No Holden/Commodore forums are anywhere is near as one sided as the Ford forums. I'm not sure why Ford fans get so crazy and fanatical about a brand of car. I guess it just goes like that after some years of being the underdog. The difference between the two fan bases is very noticable that's for sure.Almost any Holden guy will tell you a BA/F are better than the VT/X/Y/Z Commodores and the VE and FG are about the same, want a V8 get a Holden, want a 6, get a Ford. but get on the Ford forums, All Holdens are crap, why does anyone buy a Commodore when they are :P etc etc. The truth is, if you wanted a Mazda 3, both the Falcon and the Commodore will be crap as they are so similar they end up being the same thing to most people. There would be lucky to be 5% difference between them in any area so saying one is no good and the other is Genius is a bit short sighted :P

O yea and my wifes VZ ran and continues to run rings arrround my BA, so much infact I got out of it early

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by TERMINATOR X

I don't want holden to go but my god! I just can't get over how brilliant they think they are! Like " our shi# don't stink! "
GO BETTER!
Australians and holden are tougher!
Geezes, Talk about OVERATED! their not that good! They would only have to put a holden badge on a terd and i'm sure they'd sell it!

Holden are the reason I actually admire Toyota. Bland cars perhaps, but Toyota just get on with the job of making some trustworthy iron, go about massing sales with common sense product and don't need to play the Meat Pies card to do it.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Joshvee

As someone who isn't a fanatic I just wanted to correct a few errors here,

First of all, Holden Has not gone chapter 11. It's U.S. Parent company has.
Holden Is NOT getting bailed out by the U.S. government. It's U.S. Parent company is.
In fact Holden can very comfortably survive without GM USA. Although Holden is indeed owned by GM USA, it is still a financial business entity all of its own. It has made great profit and has a solid and healthy portfolio.

Secondly, GM is not the largest car manufacturer in the world. Toyota is. In fact Toyota sold more cars in Australia than Ford and GM put together.

And thirdly, technically the US government isn't "bailing GM out" it's buying 60% of GM.

I’m shocked at even the existence of this thread. It shows the immaturity of the average Australian that they can be so blindly biased by a brand name. Holden make GREAT cars and so do Ford. But hey guess what.. Holden also make crappy cars and SO DO FORD. As does every major motor company. (except Skoda.... they only make crappy cars) :

You all say your Ford fans, well you should use that word carefully. The word Fan comes from Fanatic and the word Fanatic means: fanatic - a person motivated by irrational and illogical enthusiasm.

Your apparent hatred for Holden is both illogical and immature.

Yes, Holden is owned by GM.
But, as an asset of GM it will be liquidated to help pay its parents debts to secured creditors.
It is not its own entity, it still has to be sold off.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Wheres the socialism?
Dont see it.
8 years of near fascism was a roaring sucess in america wasnt it. lol

Mate, you might want to check what actually caused the GFC, begin looking at the work of Carter and Clinton with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Wasn't fascism (sic) at all, socialism was infact the cause. Further, I've heard pleanty of people blame Pres Bush for the GFC and the sub prime mortgage crisis, check to see how many times (37) he tried in the senate to have the sub prime loans abolished only to be defeated on the vote by the Democrats and one Barrack Obama.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Joshvee

And thirdly, technically the US government isn't "bailing GM out" it's buying 60% of GM.

While the second bit of that sentence is true, the first is less than complete.

GM found itself unable to operate due to the fact that it owes much more than it is worth, it went cap in hand (or at least cap in the storage cabinate of the company jet) to the US government and said please sir, give us money.

The US government did not, and would not even simply loan all the money to GM as it had low respect for its ability to return to profit on its own.
In stead the US government elect to inject the funds through a capital investment.
Now, even though that has happened, GM is still unable to pay its bills, and so has asked that the government protect it from those who have a rightful demand on GM, and who could legally demand GM liquidate its assets.

The Government said, OK, I'll protect you from those people for 90 days

Is this a Bail-out .... No it is much more !

Originally Posted by Joshvee

I’m shocked at even the existence of this thread. It shows the immaturity of the average Australian that they can be so blindly biased by a brand name. .......

Your apparent hatred for Holden is both illogical and immature.

Very strong words for a 'non fanatic' ;-)

I do not consider myself a one eyed fan, and all of my car purchases have to pass stringent comparative analysis.

But along with the OP I and dumbfounded by holden's ability to sell anything at the moment. 10 years ago the Joke would have been, 'you could put a holden badge on a Deawoo and it would sell'.

As per the OP - holden, it appears, can do nothing wrong. Even though its 100% owner has begged for protection from the people to whom it owes money and that it cannot afford to pay back - The sun still seems to glow red from the exhaust pipe of every holden.

Originally Posted by greenfoam

No Holden/Commodore forums are anywhere is near as one sided as the Ford forums. I'm not sure why Ford fans get so crazy and fanatical about a brand of car.

I am guessing by this you are claiming that holden fans, on holden forums do not bag Fords as much as Ford fans bag holdens.

Sorry to disagree, I follow LS1 (have done for over a year), and even contribute - My observations certainly do not agree with yours.

GMI is more civil, but that is not a holden or commodore forum.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

The difference between the two fan bases is very noticable that's for sure.Almost any Holden guy will tell you a BA/F are better than the VT/X/Y/Z Commodores and the VE and FG are about the same

Nothing wrong with the VT/X/Y/Z, dont know where you got that info from. Most holden enthusiasts won't agree with you. My BA was a heap.

[tapeworm]

Some squid on here has a quote 'Perception is harder to break than an atom' Albert Eintein.

I really think Holden's 'Ozzy meat pie thing - all aussie battler' image is behind it's run of luck with the OZ public..No other car maker could sell the Sth Korean gear against superior comp. with such success I reckon. The media treat them real well.. other brands would be absolutely deep fried under the same circumstances I reckon, I kinda wonder why though.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by kezzer

Nothing wrong with the VT/X/Y/Z, dont know where you got that info from. Most holden enthusiasts won't agree with you. My BA was a heap.

yep.. fords are crap, holdens are great, heard it all before... you have just confirmed the op's statement by your very constuctive and informative post.

[mrghia]

Originally Posted by seXCmont

if holden goes then watching bathurst will get a lot less interesting

it hasnt be that interesting to watch in years. Thay are only Ford and Holden bodys. what happened to the car that they used to drive to the track?

As for the holden Cruse it might be good to try and make more jobs here but for Holden to drop the Astra and replace with this is stupid. The Astra would still have to be the best small car holden have because its not built by Deawoo!

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

yep.. fords are crap, holdens are great, heard it all before... you have just confirmed the op's statement by your very constuctive and informative post.

Mate I'm recently driving an FG xr6, unmodded as of yet.

My BA was a heap. Not saying that for all fords, no brainer. Just get abit sick and tired of this "ford is better blahblah" on this site. I would happily and have driven a VZ before, lovely car.

[seXCmont]

I do second your opinion mrghia. bring back the stock car racing instead. but that might just lead to another power scare. dont know how that would be possible in this day and age when the cars are so much quicker but do have better technologuy and can actually turn and brake.

[GTJOHN]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

No Holden/Commodore forums are anywhere is near as one sided as the Ford forums. I'm not sure why Ford fans get so crazy and fanatical about a brand of car. I guess it just goes like that after some years of being the underdog. The difference between the two fan bases is very noticable that's for sure.Almost any Holden guy will tell you a BA/F are better than the VT/X/Y/Z Commodores and the VE and FG are about the same, want a V8 get a Holden, want a 6, get a Ford. but get on the Ford forums, All Holdens are crap, why does anyone buy a Commodore when they are :P etc etc. The truth is, if you wanted a Mazda 3, both the Falcon and the Commodore will be crap as they are so similar they end up being the same thing to most people. There would be lucky to be 5% difference between them in any area so saying one is no good and the other is Genius is a bit short sighted :P

One reason ford fans are miffed , & rightlly so , is no matter what the press always paints Holden to be the be all and end all of everything .... Holden this , holden that..tuth is once the kingswood was stopped holden has made one after the other and always will..yet all the brainwashing of aussie made and blah blah , they keep selling this trash ..and everyone says that they are not GM only a part of it...well without GM america, holden would have been long gone ... they were bailed out by its parent company ..and ebven now they still use its parent company motors ...meh ...i dont want them to die...i just want them to go away and stop appearing on my tv ....

[The Snout]

Q: What does Commodore have to do to win COTY

A: Just turn up

[rustyheaders]

http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=821079

GM sells Hummer brand to Chinese firm
3/06/2009 3:41:16 PM
Hummer

General Motors, fresh from filing for bankruptcy protection, has reached a deal to sell its Hummer brand to a Chinese industrial machinery firm, Sichuan Tengzhong, the companies have announced.

Tengzhong "will acquire the rights to the premium off-road Hummer brand, along with a senior management and operational team," a joint statement said on Tuesday.

"It will also assume existing dealer agreements relating to Hummer's dealership network," the statement said.

Final terms of the deal are still being negotiated.

Tengzhong could also enter into a "long-term contract assembly and key component and material supply agreement" with GM, the statement said.

GM had said that it expected the deal to secure more than 3,000 US jobs.

[TUF_302]

Hummer is chinese? this might affect sales!

[Joe5619]

Holden marketing do great job... They are already advertising there new small car months before it goes on sale.. Yet Ford has said nothing about the new focus that has already been on sale for 1 month.. How the "f" you except to grow market share in one of the most important sectors in Australia if you don't advertise when a new model comes is crazy!!!

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I am guessing by this you are claiming that holden fans, on holden forums do not bag Fords as much as Ford fans bag holdens.

Sorry to disagree, I follow LS1 (have done for over a year), and even contribute - My observations certainly do not agree with yours.

GMI is more civil, but that is not a holden or commodore forum.

Oh well maybe on the LS1 forums, ls1 isn't really a Commodore forum. Most LS1 owners are a bit too elitist for me. It makes me more happy beating one of those in the old 5 litre than any win over a Ford