Air Conditioners Vs Evaporative Coolers - what's better

[red_hotxr6]

Air conditioners hands down. :

[galaxy xr8]

I'm looking at the Evap, at the moment, it's the cheapest to run and does the job, I'm just decideding on which brand to go with, any hint's?.

[Pinkbits]

We have a "Breezeair" evaporative unit, had it installed 4 years ago when we built our home, along with R3 bats in all the exterior walls as well as the mandatory sisalation, the temp inside did not rise above 25deg last Saturday. We have not had any condensation in that time, best of all, it is self cleaning and has automatic shut off flaps when not in use, it also flushes the tank if not used after a certain number of days. It is still advisable to clean the filters at least once a year for optimum performance. hope this helps.

[Dean C]

Ive just built a new home and have a 3 phase refridgerated system installed works great. I can cool the whole house or zone off rooms if wanted. I was told its a more efficent in cooling than the evap but a little more exy to run. I noticed on over Xmas when it was 42 in melbourne I was able to keep my house at 22 degrees rather easily.

[fatxagt]

Niether! Just buy a small fan with 3 settings. It keeps me very cool in the heat. NOT!!!!F*#K!!!!!!

[347Stroker]

Look, the evap coolers are just a crok of sh1te, all they do is akin to having a hose running in front of a fan....and thats it.
I have been in the A/C industry for 16 years, and there is no way anything on the market is half as good as an air conditioner, be it ducted, split.....what ever.

Evap coolers are just a half way measure more commonly known as Swamp Boxes...just crap really

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Look, the evap coolers are just a crok of sh1te, all they do is akin to having a hose running in front of a fan....and thats it.
I have been in the A/C industry for 16 years, and there is no way anything on the market is half as good as an air conditioner, be it ducted, split.....what ever.

Evap coolers are just a half way measure more commonly known as Swamp Boxes...just crap really

You have to be a little more informative than that, there are so many people out there that have evap and swear by them, I have not heard one person say they are crap, everybody has an opinion between the two on which is better but to say they are crap????, I'm not disagreeing with you, I have no idea on them, but I am at the moment looking at getting and Evap unit, which brand I do not know, a bloke I work with just installed an evap unit and we had a very humid day on christmas eve and as everybody say's, they don't work as well on humid day's, but he say's it was still comfortable inside comparred to outside even though it struggled a little but every other day it's brillant he say's????.

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

You have to be a little more informative than that, there are so many people out there that have evap and swear by them, I have not heard one person say they are crap, everybody has an opinion between the two on which is better but to say they are crap????, I'm not disagreeing with you, I have no idea on them, but I am at the moment looking at getting and Evap unit, which brand I do not know, a bloke I work with just installed an evap unit and we had a very humid day on christmas eve and as everybody say's, they don't work as well on humid day's, but he say's it was still comfortable inside comparred to outside even though it struggled a little but every other day it's brillant he say's????.

Mate, all they are is air running through water....and thats it...nothing more.

A refrigeration system used in a/c uses latent heat of enthalpy to achieve results, not just air through water.

What I am saying is that where an A/C system will REDUCE the temperature in the conditioned space, a swamp box will increase the humidity to a point to where you THINK its cooler (much like the bodys natural ability to sweat) and thats all....

[Laminge]

I put the basic 2.5hp in the lounge and the big **** 3.5 in my bedroom

14 degrees in less than 60 seconds, got to love icicle's hanging from mingy!

[347Stroker]

Frosty nads hey Minge.....gotta love them in Summer....

[svo347]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Frosty nads hey Minge.....gotta love them in Summer....

Great mental image there :(

[lisa76]

Ha Ha, my Mum is the same - has her air con cranked in her bedroom to a point where she was complaining of frost bite on her ears!! Hello? Might be a tad cold in there?

[KEV EB XR8]

Horses for courses............

As a smoker, air con (when lived in sydney) hurt your eyes, stuffy nose, etc as you have to close all doors and windows to let them do their job.

Now living in country nsw where humidity is very low, leave all windows and doors open, each area ducted with cool air escaping out windows/doors.

Keeping in mind the (comfortable) temp your house is in winter, why would you try and ice cube your house with an uncomfortable temp that i see most people putting clothes on as it is too cold.

Queensland is a tropical (high humidity) and evap coolers are useless. Hence dehumidifing (air conditioner) would make more sence.

[xbgs351]

As you are in the ACT I would highly recomend evaporative and highly recomend against refrigerative.

ACT has a dry climate which is best suited to evaporative. An evaporative system is extremely cheap to run, provides enough instant cool air to cool the whole house.

A refrigerative sytem costs a lot to run, takes a lot longer to cool, is usually unsuitable for cooling the whole house, requires the house to be shut up, and most importantly dries the air out to the point that it is extremely uncomfortable.

I live in Wodonga which has a similar summer climate to the ACT. Practically ALL new houses have evaporative air conditioning.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Mate, all they are is air running through water....and thats it...nothing more.

A refrigeration system used in a/c uses latent heat of enthalpy to achieve results, not just air through water.

What I am saying is that where an A/C system will REDUCE the temperature in the conditioned space, a swamp box will increase the humidity to a point to where you THINK its cooler (much like the bodys natural ability to sweat) and thats all....

An evaportive air conditioner will also REDUCE the temperature.




Evaporative cooler index for standard aspen-pad coolers. Enter the table from the left with outside air temperature [Farenheit] and the top with outdoor humidity. Where the row and column meet is the temperature of air a typical evaporative cooler will produce.


.

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

An evaportive air conditioner will also REDUCE the temperature.




Evaporative cooler index for standard aspen-pad coolers. Enter the table from the left with outside air temperature [Farenheit] and the top with outdoor humidity. Where the row and column meet is the temperature of air a typical evaporative cooler will produce.


.

Air Cons do not cost alot of money to run, for example a 7kw unit only costs about $1 a day used sensibly, not 24hrs....

Evaporative coolers are a haven for bacteria, like legionella and have no temperature control capability.
If they were that good and so cheap to run I am sure developers would be putting them into everything....even high rise buildings....but.....

At the end of the day, air conditioning is so vastly superior to humidity increase as a means of cooling that the two honestly are not even comparable.
Its like winding the windows down on the car compared to using the A/C.

And the other added benefit of A/C is that when used in winter, in reverse cycle operation it is the cheapest form of heating.

Do you run upstairs and fill the swamp box with boiling water from the kettle to do the same.......

Saying that A/C systems dry out the air is an old wives tale, and these days they are that well designed and remove minimal moisture from the air, if correctly sized and installed.
To say that in climates like wodonga and canberra dont need A/C and swampies are better is another broad sweeping statement which is under informed and poorly researched. I bet parliament house doesnt have swampies hanging from it....
The only problems with A/C systems in colder climates is that on heating they have to go onto "de ice" operation a little more frequently than in a warmer winter climate....and thats about the extent of the problems with them.

At the end of the day, a swampie is just old technology gradually dying a slow death.
I am sure with water restrictions and the bacteria possibilities that in years to come they will dissappear altogether.

[Bucknaked]

I understand in the warmer tropical climates air con is the only way to go. In Canberra where our climate is different to that of QLD, then surley evaporative does the job. For me, i'm not interested in turning the temp down to 18 od a 35 degree day. Cool fresh air does the trick nicely.

I spoke to several different installers based in Canberra and everyone of them suggested for the Canberra Climates, that Evaporative is more than adequate with one or 2 days a year where the humidity is at a point where you can't run your cooler.

Our evap unit has a control. So i can make the fan go faster or slower. We have ducted heating so we use that in winter.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Air Cons do not cost alot of money to run, for example a 7kw unit only costs about $1 a day used sensibly, not 24hrs....
.

People with refrigerative air conditioners hardly ever use them sensibly. As they have their house closed up, they never know when it cools down outside. I would estimate your $1 would give around 3 hours use.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Evaporative coolers are a haven for bacteria, like legionella

Which is why they have dump valves that automatically dump the impurities, and removes dust and other airborne particles that gather in the tank.

During cooler times, the dump valve automatically activates to empty the tank, keeping the system clean and dry.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

and have no temperature control capability.

Modern evaporative air conditioners have an auto mode that monitors the room temperature and compares it to your personal comfort setting, then automatically increase or decreased the fan speed to maintain that comfort setting.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

If they were that good and so cheap to run I am sure developers would be putting them into everything....even high rise buildings....but.....

They are putting them into almost all new houses in Albury and Wodonga. They are also very popular in industry.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

At the end of the day, air conditioning is so vastly superior to humidity increase as a means of cooling that the two honestly are not even comparable.
Its like winding the windows down on the car compared to using the A/C.

It depends on application. There are plenty of applications were refrigerative air conditioning is a poor second choice.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

And the other added benefit of A/C is that when used in winter, in reverse cycle operation it is the cheapest form of heating.

It is not the cheapest form of heating, it is the most efficient form of heating. Reverse cycle and gas heat are comparable in costs.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Do you run upstairs and fill the swamp box with boiling water from the kettle to do the same.......

Would you?

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Saying that A/C systems dry out the air is an old wives tale, and these days they are that well designed and remove minimal moisture from the air, if correctly sized and installed.

Refrigeration air conditioning equipment reduces the humidity of the air processed by the system. The relatively cold (below the dewpoint) evaporator coil condenses water vapor from the processed air, sending the water to a drain and removing water vapor from the cooled space and lowering the relative humidity.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

To say that in climates like wodonga and canberra dont need A/C and swampies are better is another broad sweeping statement which is under informed and poorly researched. I bet parliament house doesnt have swampies hanging from it....

Climates like Wodonga and Canberra don't need A/C or swampies. The people living there might need them. Evaporative is far preferable and far more popular.

Originally Posted by 347stroker

The only problems with A/C systems in colder climates is that on heating they have to go onto "de ice" operation a little more frequently than in a warmer winter climate....and thats about the extent of the problems with them.

How about loss of refrigeration gas?

Originally Posted by 347stroker

At the end of the day, a swampie is just old technology gradually dying a slow death.
I am sure with water restrictions and the bacteria possibilities that in years to come they will dissappear altogether.

Why is the factory at Leeton doing so much business?


.

[Uncle_Ken]

How many rooms do you want to cool?
I have a reverse cycle split air/con in Sydney. I shut a few doors and the area in which we spend 90% of our time is great. If its just a small area every now and then, there is a big cost difference between the two. Seeing you've got heating covered it depends on how much you want to spend. My sister lives in the ACT and she has ducted aircon and heating.
Uncle_Ken

[347Stroker]

Mate, the sales of swampies would account for probably 2.5% of A/C systems.
Albury Wodonga is a drop in the ocean compared to the population of Australia.
I run an Air Conditioning company here in QLD and know the figures of Air Conditioners being imported into australia every year as a whole and the numbers are just mind numbing.
I know you have your beliefs, but in reality, the sales figures tell the story.
I will endeavour to get the stats tomorrow.

[svo347]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Mate, the sales of swampies would account for probably 2.5% of A/C systems.
Albury Wodonga is a drop in the ocean compared to the population of Australia.
I run an Air Conditioning company here in QLD and know the figures of Air Conditioners being imported into australia every year as a whole and the numbers are just mind numbing.
I know you have your beliefs, but in reality, the sales figures tell the story.
I will endeavour to get the stats tomorrow.

Hey can i feel a FF's discount comming on?

[red_hotxr6]

Maybe the best thing to do is try them both.You dont jump into the first car you see and buy it or the first surround system, try before you buy.

[nang3]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Frosty nads hey Minge.....gotta love them in Summer....

hehe yeh they are better than Betty Swollocks!!

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Mate, the sales of swampies would account for probably 2.5% of A/C systems.
Albury Wodonga is a drop in the ocean compared to the population of Australia.
I run an Air Conditioning company here in QLD and know the figures of Air Conditioners being imported into australia every year as a whole and the numbers are just mind numbing.
I know you have your beliefs, but in reality, the sales figures tell the story.
I will endeavour to get the stats tomorrow.

I'm not concerned with the rest of Australia, I'm concerned with the areas of Australia that have a similar summer climate to the ACT. Of course the majority of air conditioners sold in Australia will be refrigerative, because the majority of Australia's population live close to the coast where the humidity is much higher.

I live in an area with a summer climate similar to the ACT and 19 out of 20 new houses here have an evaporative cooler.

As for the running costs, do the maths.

Refrigerative Aircon
7500W @ 13 cents/kwh

versus

Evaporative
750W @ 13 cents/kwh

Other things to consider:
-How well is the house insulated?
-Does any of the family have asthma?
-Does any of your family have allergies?
-Do you want the whole house cooled?
-How often and long will cooling be required?
-Do you already have gas heating?
-Is there room in the roof for ducts?
-How handy are you? A lot of the work can be done by someone with the right skills.

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

-How well is the house insulated?
+ And how does that differ from swampies
-Does any of the family have asthma?
+ Is of no concern to A/C, thats an old wives tale full of crap
-Does any of your family have allergies?
+ See above
-Do you want the whole house cooled?
+ That would be a big splittie.....I think you are thinking of ducted air
-How often and long will cooling be required?
+ As long as the customer wants to feel comfortable
-Do you already have gas heating?
+ How does this matter, reverse cycle cost about 30 $ over cooling only
-Is there room in the roof for ducts?
+ And split systems come in where?
-How handy are you? A lot of the work can be done by someone with the right skills.
+ Once again, non skilled persons carrying out the jobs best left for the professionals...;

I think maybe you should do some more research before you make sweeping statements mate, seeing hospitals have Air Conditioning, and there is no dilemas with asthsma. There is also alot of different types of air conditioners too.....do the research, you are making a fool of yourself.

They dont call refrigeration and Airconditioning the 8th wonder of the modern world for nothing...

And to shoot down your sweeping generalisation of A/C's dont work in dry climates, I lived in Central QLD for many years where it would make your place look like an oasis, and bugger me, every donga, house, office and shop had A/C too....twenty years earlier they had swampies, but with the advent of technology, they all dissappeared.....
Try asking any guys that work in the mines in CQ, NT or WA what they have........and they are the dryest climates in all of Australia...

[Thunder Kiss]

'67, I've had both systems and although I must admit I was fairly happy with ducted evap air-cooling, I prefer my current ducted refridgerated air-conditioning.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

a swamp box will increase the humidity to a point to where you THINK its cooler (much like the bodys natural ability to sweat) and thats all....

Bugger, and all this time I thought that the thermometer in our house didn't have the capacity to think.

27c inside and 42c outside. Evap in Wagga seems to work great... (dry heat like the ACT)

[347Stroker]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Bugger, and all this time I thought that the thermometer in our house didn't have the capacity to think.

27c inside and 42c outside. Evap in Wagga seems to work great... (dry heat like the ACT)

Do you know the difference between dry bulb and wet bulb temperatures??

Plot them on a psychrometric chart and see what the real temp is....

OK well evaporative cooler fills your air with moisture. It works via water evaporation causing the air being blown through it to be cool. A/C however is also a dehumidifier, it draws the water out of the air, hence the dripping under the car when you stop after running a/c. water in air is muggy, dehumidified air is cold and dry....VERY comfortable!!!!! A/C is the way to go!!!!!!

[svo347]

Originally Posted by 347stroker

Try asking any guys that work in the mines in CQ, NT or WA what they have........and they are the dryest climates in all of Australia...

Yep the offices had Refrigeration units whilst our Workshops and engine building rooms had Evap units.