30,000 lost their License in 12 months ..... - Page 2

Mrs GT · 01-05-2009, 03:59 PM

10 points
* Drivers subject to zero BAC# with a BAC of between 0.00% and .05%
* Drivers subject to .05% BAC with a BAC of .05% but less than .07%
* Driving under the influence of illicit drugs

8 points
* Exceed speed limit by 45km/h or more*

6 points
* Exceed speed limit by 35km/h or more but less than 45km/h*

4 points
* Exceed speed limit by 25km/h or more but less than 35km/h*
* Rail level crossing offence

3 points
* Exceed speed limit by 10km/h or more but less than 25km/h*
* Disobey traffic lights, signs or police directing traffic
* Fail to give way or stop
* Drive without wearing a helmet (motorcycle), seat belt, or a properly adjusted and fastened seat belt, or with an unrestrained passenger under 16
* Drive on wrong side of double lines, or divided highway
* Risk colliding with alighting, boarding or waiting tram passengers
* Driving contrary to a major defect notice
* Careless driving
* Using a mobile phone illegally while driving
* Probationary driver who drives a high powered vehicle on a road
* Driving with an obscured or improperly displayed number plate
* Failure to display P plates

2 points
* Improper overtaking or passing
* Turn or stop without signalling
* Turn improperly
* Fail to keep left

1 point
* Exceed speed limit by less than 10km/h*
* Driving contrary to a minor defect notice
* Fail to dip headlights
* Driving at night without headlights and tail lights on
* Follow too closely

Quite easy to rack up points lets just take the average left hand turn onto a main road, how many of us actually STOP at a stop sign but roll threw it! failing to stop at a stop sign (3 points), not indicating (2 points) and 4 KM/h over the limit (3 points) and there is 8 points in about 4 seconds of driving

LowEL2XR8 · 01-05-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Obviously you aren't married and have kids .........

Married with 3 kids.

These comments are just a jab at me please explain why you disagree with my comment.

You'd rather see people driving without a license cause they have a spouse and kids? Are the road rules unfair? Help me understand where I have gone wrong with my comment? Its more constructive than your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I reckon you should just execute them and then send the family an invoice for the bullet.

Oh sorry, I thought this was the totalitarian dictators and social engineers working group forum, my mistake......

No you didn't your being sarcastic. How about explain yourself and why you disagree with my comments instead of a ..... (edit) oh never mind.

It was just my opinion guys. I'd put money on a bet both of you are glad I don't make road rules.

vztrt · 01-05-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs GT

Quite easy to rack up points lets just take the average left hand turn onto a main road, how many of us actually STOP at a stop sign but roll threw it! failing to stop at a stop sign (3 points), not indicating (2 points) and 4 KM/h over the limit (3 points) and there is 8 points in about 4 seconds of driving

4kph is 1 point.

Escort_RPDriver · 01-05-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I can understand the occasional minor "opps" but exceeding 5 points over 3 years says to me there's a lack of peripheral awareness in someones driving style.. i mean c'mon.. the camera's stick out like dog's bits.!

Thats not true not all cameras you can see i got done for doning 105 in a 100 zone (the speedo said 100.) as a the cop car passed me, it was a silver camry
the speed camera was a dash mounted one.
I only lost 1 point and its my first effence since i started driving so it all good.

Auslandau · 01-05-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEL2XR8

Married with 3 kids.

These comments are just a jab at me please explain why you disagree with my comment.

You'd rather see people driving without a license cause they have a spouse and kids? Are the road rules unfair?

Again just having a go at me. How about explain yourself and why you disagree with my comments instead of a ..... (edit) oh never mind.

Crikey! Take it any way you want but just the comment sounds like someone who doesn't have wife and kids ......

Why remove the car from someone just because they MIGHT break the law and drive unlicensed? Isnt losing your lisence punishment enough with a fine? If this is how the law works, remove everyones car before they speed because EVERYONE does OR if they get to 5 points in 6 months, then remove the car because obviously they are going to loose their license over the next 6 months?

BUT .... more importanty and more to do with my question to you ....... Why disadvantage your spouse and family because you have lost your points? Its a disadvantage enough they have the burdon of being the designated driver for the next when ever. The Mrs and kids didnt loose there points. They may a perfect record ... (proberly not because you have used their points as well ...... but thats another arguement). You loose your points the family wagon goes? In some instances its the only car in the family? A family of 4 with one car, the car goes for minor infringments over 3 years and they loose their only means of transport? Bit severe I would think.

Remove the car if they repeatly do burn outs, or generally display a total disreguard after the 3rd warning but to remove it because they might break the law later on, after they have been punished?

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Ross-b · 01-05-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

4kph is 1 point.

not in good old nsw

i know this threads about vic so sorry

i just get annoyed when someone points out the majority are p platerrs ect sorta stuff

Pinkbits · 01-05-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

I certainly would drive with no licence, no problems (I havnt lost my licence however...had a few 12 point good behaviours though and would have if had to). And most people I know would too and some have.

Its just not right that for some minor minor thing like doing 5 over can when doing your 12 month no point good behaviour give you a 6 month suspension. Lose your licence, lose your job, lose your house.... no thanks.

For me who does 80,000km per year of a lot of country driving for work it just goes with the job to get caught every so often.

You cant tell me just because I dont have a licence I am some how more dangerous than the day before when I did. Thats a paperwork technicality. :-)

If you are unfortunate enough to lose your license for whatever reason, insist on driving and are unfortunate to be involved in an at-fault accident.
Losing your house will be the least of your worries!
As other have said, you will be paying for a loooong time.

LowEL2XR8 · 01-05-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Crikey! Take it any way you want but just the comment sounds like someone who doesn't have wife and kids ......

Why remove the car from someone just because they MIGHT break the law and drive unlicensed? Isnt losing your lisence punishment enough with a fine? If this is how the law works, remove everyones car before they speed because EVERYONE does OR if they get to 5 points in 6 months, then remove the car because obviously they are going to loose their license over the next 6 months?

BUT .... more importanty and more to do with my question to you ....... Why disadvantage your spouse and family because you have lost your points? Its a disadvantage enough they have the burdon of being the designated driver for the next when ever. The Mrs and kids didnt loose there points. They may a perfect record ... (proberly not because you have used their points as well ...... but thats another arguement). You loose your points the family wagon goes? In some instances its the only car in the family? A family of 4 with one car, the car goes for minor infringments over 3 years and they loose their only means of transport? Bit severe I would think.

Remove the car if they repeatly do burn outs, or generally display a total disreguard after the 3rd warning but to remove it because they might break the law later on, after they have been punished?

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I do agree it does disadvantage the spouse and kids if the car is taken away. Thats why I called it a deterrant. But yes it would hurt the family so maybe its not the best way. Some people are not honest when they lose their license and continue to drive cause lets face it a license is a bit of plastic in your wallet and you can drive without one.

I only see a police car about 5% of the time I'm driving and when I do see them how do they know if I have a license or not. I'm free to drive whenever I want and would be unlucky to get pulled over. The people that lose their license lost it for a reason and it needs to be enforced so they can't drive

There definitely needs to be a better way to enforce the people with no license from driving. I can't think of anything that would be effective to enforce them.

I'd love to hear some ideas from people of what would stop people from driving who have lost their license (apart from the bullet theory of flappist)

Auslandau · 01-05-2009, 05:17 PM

I can never understand why they dont do license checks at breath test stations! That would clear a few off the streets?

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Daymoe · 01-05-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Even taking that into account its still grossly disproportionate though....

A mate in my class just got his licence about 2 weeks ago, after the first week already lost 3 points for carrying more than one passenger his age, leaving him on 2 points.

The other guy was passed out in the boot haha.

GT69 · 01-05-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

I can never understand why they dont do license checks at breath test stations! That would clear a few off the streets?

But for how long exactly? And how would it clear them off the streets if their car is given back to them? They've obviously shown the intent to continue breaking the law.

So what are we saying here? That if your about to lose your licence get into a relationship so you have dependants that require your car so it wont be taken off you? but if your single your car can be taken away?

Everyone always goes the 'wife and kids' angle in arguements, its gets rather old. Perhaps you should be thinking about your wife and kids when contemplating speeding/drink drive/pulling a skid and all those other annoying things. Speed zones are rather clearly marked through most areas of this country, even the initial confusion surrounding the 50km zones whether marked/unmarked should have finally settled down.

If P platers have 5 points (its 4 in QLD unless its been recently changed) then thats no excuse. Actually, that is an excuse but its a really bad one.

:

All these issues are alittle dodgy. I lost my licence for 3 months through accumulation of points, My cars were taken off me by my parents for the sum of that 3 months and it nearly ruined my business (im still feeling the financial effects 2 years on) but it was a life lesson in not being stupid.

Unfortunately some people will die before realising this. Some people will maim and kill before realizing it as well. Deaths on the road will always happen but the answer is never in fining or disqualification. but in education. OBVIOUSLY if P Platers are a higher percentage of lose of licence then the current EDUCATION system is failing. Or people are stupid. But i lean more towards the first point.

XC_Lizzard · 01-05-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Also the way people can swap points for those in the family is huge. This means that those that are lucky can have 20 or 30 points to share while some only have 10. Not really a fair system that allows this and not getting to the problem of taking bad drivers off the road?

I didn't think it is actually allowed, just done with a very small chance of getting caught. Technically to take the points, you sign a stat dec to take the points saying (untruthfully) that you were driving the car. As this is either fraud or perjury (may need a legal type to clarify), If someone is caught doing this the consequences are likely to be much harsher than a couple of months without a licence.

LowEL2XR8 · 01-05-2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

I can never understand why they dont do license checks at breath test stations! That would clear a few off the streets?

It would only remove them for that day. They intend to break the law and will do it again.

The police are getting more and more license plate checkers fitted to their cop cars that scan all the plates they can see and they can pull over any car that crops up as unlicensed or the driver unlicensed by way of know the car is owned by the driver. If your unlicesned and driving someone elses car who is licensed then its a free ticket.
All they can do is keep fining the unlicensed people when they are caught without a license until they do it enought they go to jail. In the meantime they are free to drive drunk, recklessly, speed and all sorts of stuff on the roads.

I reckon I'm done here in this thread.

There is one more thing I'd like to add that if an unlicensed person hits my car killing one or more of my kids or my wife I go to jail for murder. It won't be fair on my family but that scum doesn't deserve to live.

Now I'm done.....I think.

**GasoLane** · 01-05-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XC_Lizzard

I didn't think it is actually allowed, just done with a very small chance of getting caught. Technically to take the points, you sign a stat dec to take the points saying (untruthfully) that you were driving the car. As this is either fraud or perjury (may need a legal type to clarify), If someone is caught doing this the consequences are likely to be much harsher than a couple of months without a licence.

Yep. Just ask (FORMER Federal Court judge) Marcus Einfeld..........

GT0132 · 01-05-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I can understand the occasional minor "opps" but exceeding 5 points over 3 years says to me there's a lack of peripheral awareness in someones driving style.. i mean c'mon.. the camera's stick out like dog's bits.!

Not the portable cameras

I'm about to start on my 12 month good behaviour period for reaching 12 points within 3 years...in October 2007 I received 2 hair dryer infringements a week apart for doing 60 in a 50 zone on the same stretch of road (which a month prior was a 70 zone) - one of those on a double demerit weekend - both at night and i honestly didn't realise the limit had been reduced .

The third ticket I received 2 months ago was for a fixed camera offence in a school zone...I just wasn't thinking and was doing 55 in what is normally a 60 zone but reduced to 40 due to a school zone.

All this in the space of 2 years . Prior to that my last speeding ticket was in 2001 and prior to that 1980.

I agree its my own fault but I don't think I deserve a licence suspension

Zed7fiddy · 01-05-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That makes no sense either... you don't stop enjoying driving your car the min you come off P Plates.. ive averaged more K's per as a full licensed driver than i did as a P Plater.

congratulations, your one of the minority ;)

edited...quoted wrong post

Mrs GT · 02-05-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

If you are unfortunate enough to lose your license for whatever reason, insist on driving and are unfortunate to be involved in an at-fault accident.
Losing your house will be the least of your worries!
As other have said, you will be paying for a loooong time.

What if you DO have a license, and are unfortunate to be involved in an at-fault accident. does NOT having a license make you a worse driver?
Just because you HAVE a license doesn't make you a good driver!

GT69 · 02-05-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs GT

What if you DO have a license, and are unfortunate to be involved in an at-fault accident. does NOT having a license make you a worse driver?
Just because you HAVE a license doesn't make you a good driver!

Do you have a serious problem with licences? or just dislike people with them?
Does murder make you a bad person? should you be allowed to just carry on in society after it or should there be a penalty for your crime? Oh there should be a penalty? Perhaps being removed from society and imprisoned is the answer to said question? Oh it is! Well perhaps removing someones right to drive is the answer to them breaking x number of road rules to lose (or gain however you look at it) 12 points within a 3 year period.

I honestly dont get the mentality (and quiet frankly its rather frightening) that people would openly defend unlicenced driving.

And if there 'such a good driver' they shouldnt have gotten caught and lost there licence, which means they lack common sense and skills of observation. Two very important skills needed for operation of a motor vehicle.

YES there are bad drivers who dont lose there licence, theres also 'good' (as in talented) drivers who lose theirs. Thats life, do the crime do the time. If P Platers or anyone else is unfortunate (read stupid) enough to lose there points through lack of self control then big deal, maybe they should grow up abit and being disadvantaged with no licence is possibly a good way of going about it.

LowEL2XR8 · 02-05-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT69

Do you have a serious problem with licences? or just dislike people with them?
Does murder make you a bad person? should you be allowed to just carry on in society after it or should there be a penalty for your crime? Oh there should be a penalty? Perhaps being removed from society and imprisoned is the answer to said question? Oh it is! Well perhaps removing someones right to drive is the answer to them breaking x number of road rules to lose (or gain however you look at it) 12 points within a 3 year period.

I honestly dont get the mentality (and quiet frankly its rather frightening) that people would openly defend unlicenced driving.

And if there 'such a good driver' they shouldnt have gotten caught and lost there licence, which means they lack common sense and skills of observation. Two very important skills needed for operation of a motor vehicle.

YES there are bad drivers who dont lose there licence, theres also 'good' (as in talented) drivers who lose theirs. Thats life, do the crime do the time. If P Platers or anyone else is unfortunate (read stupid) enough to lose there points through lack of self control then big deal, maybe they should grow up abit and being disadvantaged with no licence is possibly a good way of going about it.

Totally agree.

Pinkbits · 02-05-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs GT

What if you DO have a license, and are unfortunate to be involved in an at-fault accident. does NOT having a license make you a worse driver?
Just because you HAVE a license doesn't make you a good driver!

Nowhere in my post on this topic did i state that having a license makes you a GOOD driver.
If you would care to read or re-read the thread from the start and pay particular attention to post no. 13 then you may have a better understanding.
The point i was trying to make was that this person has stated that he has had "a few 12 point good behaviours" and if he did lose his licencse would have no hesitation in continuing to drive because of the fear of losing his job, house etc....
Clearly this person needs to modify their driving habits and their attitude to following the law as we all do.
I have had a car that was parked and hit by an un-licensed driver in a stolen car being pursued by the police, and although i could provide details of the offending driver we lost our rating one status.

I'm no angel myself. I lost my license twice in the 80's for speeding, but in those days there were no demerit points for "P" plate drivers & the maximum speed limit was 80kmh. Any infringement resulted in a visit to the magistrate and more often than not a mandatory 3 month CANCELLATION which required a license re-examination.

Hitman · 02-05-2009, 01:47 PM

If you don't have a license and have an accident, regardless of who caused it, wouldn't the unlicensed driver be held to blame, because if they don't have a license they shouldn't have been there in the first place?

LowEL2XR8 · 02-05-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

If you don't have a license and have an accident, regardless of who caused it, wouldn't the unlicensed driver be held to blame, because if they don't have a license they shouldn't have been there in the first place?

Not a truer word has been spoken. However I don't think the law views it that way.

Marduk · 02-05-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Even taking that into account its still grossly disproportionate though....

BS with less then half the points of a full driver it is so much easier to lose your license especially considering the gross prejudice towards P platers.

By the way i've had my Ps for 9 months and still haven't lost a single point or been pulled over. While I admit there are a lot of morons on Ps out there. There are just as many morons out there who aren't on there Ps.

Taxman · 02-05-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Obviously you aren't married and have kids .........

You have totally missed the point.

IF you have a wife, kids and in my case a granddaughter and you get in the car to go somewhere, you want to have a reasonable expectation that you will arrive in one piece. And hope that you are not going to encounter an unlicensed driver doing the very things that have resulted in he/she losing his/her licence.

If you have a habit of running the lights i.e. they are on amber as you approach the lights and just about to change to red, you think to yourself I can clear the intersection before the others will start to move and give it a boot full, BUT WHAT IF there is someone approaching the intersection anticipating the green, starts to accelerate you collide in the middle of the intersection and you get T-boned in the passenger side and someone in your car gets injured or still worse gets killed - both claim to be safe drivers - yet someone is dead - how do you live with yourselves, particularly the driver of the car in which the person was killed.

Don't say that it won't happen because it did about a fortnight ago, I still don't know how I missed being involved as the two vehicles went spinning through the intersection, missing my car by millimetres and I had my wife, son his wife and my granddaughter in the car.

If a person has had their licence cancelled for breaking the law there is no way that they could remotely consider themselves a safe driver, they are only kidding themselves. If they were a safe driver they would not have lost their licence in the first place.

You said "Obviously you aren't married and have kids" In my opinion if you thought about them and the inconvenience of not being available as a taxi service let alone their physical well being, then you wouldn't drive in a manner that will put your licence at risk.

I would much rather be a minute or two late than being dead on time

Auslandau · 02-05-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxman

You have totally missed the point.

IF you have a wife, kids and in my case a granddaughter and you get in the car to go somewhere, you want to have a reasonable expectation that you will arrive in one piece. And hope that you are not going to encounter an unlicensed driver doing the very things that have resulted in he/she losing his/her licence..................etc

Well this answer just has my head spinning! A real big HUH???

You were nearly in an accident with an unlisenced driver through a red light? Had this person had his license suspended before the near miss? How do you know they were unlicensed? Are all twits on the road had thier license suspended in the past? Where is the data you draw this conclusion on?

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Taxman · 02-05-2009, 07:21 PM

Well this answer just has my head spinning! A real big HUH??? From the comments you have made why does one find that surprising?

You were nearly in an accident with an unlicensed driver through a red light? You can actually read!
Had this person had his license suspended before the near miss? Yes!
How do you know they were unlicensed? Because I heard the driver admit to the attending police officer that his licence had been suspended for 2 years.
Are all twits on the road had their license suspended in the past? Poor Grammar - It would be nice if they were cancelled permanently. It has often been said that the part of the car which causes the most accidents is the nut behind the wheel.
Where is the data you draw this conclusion on? I never said it was based on data. I merely relayed a situation in which I was involved and gave my opinion based on something which you appear to lack. It is called common sense.

Auslandau · 02-05-2009, 07:44 PM

You really are splitting my sides

I've had a few accidents in my time and they were licensed ...... wierd that.

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FPV+fteT3 · 02-05-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

You have totally missed the point

LOL....gotta laugh when people have a rant withour reading the entire post or comprehending what they have read, and to what the statement is actually a response too this quote was in response to a post suggesting impounding cars for the period of the licence cancellation just incase the disqualified driver is tempted to drive. If you have a wife and kids and the vehicle is the family transport and the wife has a licence why should she and the children be penalised by impounding the car because dad has run out of points, comprehend? Good english starts with reading and comprehension not just grammar.

Wally · 02-05-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I reckon you should just execute them and then send the family an invoice for the bullet.

Oh sorry, I thought this was the totalitarian dictators and social engineers working group forum, my mistake......

Ford Forums own Braveheart.

fatasslandau · 02-05-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

I can never understand why they dont do license checks at breath test stations! That would clear a few off the streets?

every single time i have been pulled over for a rbt they have alway asked for my licence but this is nsw might be a bit tougher up here on that aspect or i might just look like a crim