Australian Defence Force to sell off thousands of vehicles and other war equipment - Page 2

Motorbreath310 · 01-02-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You don't seem to get it.

We have no chance whatsoever against a major force without our allies. USA is our number one ally so we use stuff that is compatible with them.
In the same way that before WW2 were used pommy stuff.

Buying russian equipment is just silly as they are not our traditional ally and if the fighters were actually NEEDED there is a pretty good chance we would not be able to get parts or technology.
After the excellent record the dugongs have set I would not be keen to rely on any european equipment at all.

Hmm never considered the compatibility or supply issue. Never thought of Russia as a future threat, either.

rayner22 · 01-02-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You don't seem to get it.

We have no chance whatsoever against a major force without our allies. USA is our number one ally so we use stuff that is compatible with them.
In the same way that before WW2 were used pommy stuff.

Buying russian equipment is just silly as they are not our traditional ally and if the fighters were actually NEEDED there is a pretty good chance we would not be able to get parts or technology.
After the excellent record the dugongs have set I would not be keen to rely on any european equipment at all.

Not disagreeing with you completely, hardware compatability is a high priority.

However the deal offered by Sukhoi for the SU-35, 37 etc was that they were actually built here in Australia under licence, and the ADF was to be given full tooling and specs from wheel to aileron. The Sukhoi can actually be configured to carry any weapon type the JSF can.

So we would have had the full capability to manufacture our own spares, instead of relying on a Aus or US C-17 being able to potentially fly through a warzone carrying vital spares. Would of created a fair few jobs in the process too.

The JSF has two issues for Australia - single engine (less combat survivability) and a lesser payload than the F/A-18 it is replacing(8 pylon 6000kg payload F35 v 11 pylon 8500kg for F/A-18). It's basically a scaled down F-22, but unfortunately the F-22 will never have anything but a USAF insignia painted on it. JSF is designed to be a strike fighter escorted by F-22's, but ours will have to be relying on Super Hornets for cover.

AdamL · 01-02-2013, 07:37 PM

All equipment comes with full technical, parts and after sales support. It's all part of the contracts.

Motorbreath310 · 01-02-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayner22

JSF is designed to be a strike fighter escorted by F-22's, but ours will have to be relying on Super Hornets for cover.

What's the use of a stealth ground attack aircraft if it's to be escorted by Super Hornets? And on that note, what other options are there for a long range striker? Do they still make Strike Eagles?

I like the idea of locally made Sukhoi's. Just like the Japanese did with their F-15's as far as I'm aware. We could call them the Jabiru AUS-37 "Terminator"

DanielXR8 · 01-02-2013, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

What?

The real world is not a XBox or Playstation.......

Not as crazy as it sounds. The russian jets are very rugged, can fly out of locations the western stuff can't, are simpler in design but highly maneuverable and for a country that doesn't have a lot of money and needs the hardware to last two or three decades they are a tough bit of kit.

Add some western electronics and weapons to them and they would be a very tough opponent. Since the cold war is over and China and Indonesia are our main worries, why not.

Of course keeping the yanks happy means we will buy whatever over engineered solution they make available and has been compromised just for us.

DanielXR8 · 01-02-2013, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorbreath310

What's the use of a stealth ground attack aircraft if it's to be escorted by Super Hornets? And on that note, what other options are there for a long range striker? Do they still make Strike Eagles?

I like the idea of locally made Sukhoi's. Just like the Japanese did with their F-15's as far as I'm aware. We could call them the Jabiru AUS-37 "Terminator"

Boomerang 2. No matter what the mission they always come back.

DoreSlamR · 01-02-2013, 10:17 PM

There really is nothing else around that will do what the the F-111 did.

Expect to see more UAV's being purchased in the future too.

Motorbreath310 · 01-02-2013, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

There really is nothing else around that will do what the the F-111 did.

Expect to see more UAV's being purchased in the future too.

I'm surprised there isn't an F-14 replacement either. Or at least a platform to carry the AIM-54 seeing as a lot of focus is on BVR capability now. The Chinese are working on long range interceptors at the moment. Whether they'll be any good is yet to be seen but they're working on it.

Buntz · 01-02-2013, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

For sale 6x Collins class submarines NOT XW-XY-XA-XB-XC

good for project or parts

single owner log books included

selling due to too many projects on the go and not enough money

inspections strongly recommended

buyer to arrange own transport -- vehicles have not run since 1996

Diesel. All six are blowing smoke.

flappist · 01-02-2013, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayner22

Not disagreeing with you completely, hardware compatability is a high priority.

However the deal offered by Sukhoi for the SU-35, 37 etc was that they were actually built here in Australia under licence, and the ADF was to be given full tooling and specs from wheel to aileron. The Sukhoi can actually be configured to carry any weapon type the JSF can.

So we would have had the full capability to manufacture our own spares, instead of relying on a Aus or US C-17 being able to potentially fly through a warzone carrying vital spares. Would of created a fair few jobs in the process too.

The JSF has two issues for Australia - single engine (less combat survivability) and a lesser payload than the F/A-18 it is replacing(8 pylon 6000kg payload F35 v 11 pylon 8500kg for F/A-18). It's basically a scaled down F-22, but unfortunately the F-22 will never have anything but a USAF insignia painted on it. JSF is designed to be a strike fighter escorted by F-22's, but ours will have to be relying on Super Hornets for cover.

Built here under license? What, by bogans who expect $200,000 a year because "thats wot the miners get mate". Yeh right.
It would be cheaper to buy 10 times more than we need and keep 90% as "wrecker spares".

Seriously, we have no real intrinsic defense capability. Howard disarmed the country and now we rely on a tiny number of military who would be overwhelmed by shear numbers in an invasion and a civilian population who pee themselves at the sight of a firearm and our defense ties with other countries who think differently to us.

If we do not play nicely with the yanks we are a prime target for anyone who wants to wander in and take everything we have.

I know my position will be disputed by the do-gooders and cotton wool nannyistas but there is a reason why Switzerland has never been invaded, the Russians lost in Afghanistan, the Yanks lost in Vietnam and the Nazis lost against the Russians......

P.S. I have moved this to the bar as it is not really automotive orientated.

Road_Warrior · 02-02-2013, 12:59 AM

You do realise that apart from the first few, all of Australia's F/A-18 Hornets were built in Australia under license...SuperBug excepted of course.

Trevor 57 · 02-02-2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

A lot of this stuff is Vietnam era or earlier and not compatible with current technology.

Geez flappist don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, all the Labor haters are thriving on this and you come in and take away their steam -

BAWITHLOT · 02-02-2013, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Geez flappist don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, all the Labor haters are thriving on this and you come in and take away their steam -

I agree that you should all stop beleiving what is in the paper! The only good reading is the comic section

Do you really think they would sell that many F/18s ( doubtful all but a few readers really know how many we actually have!)

AWD Chaser · 02-02-2013, 10:22 AM

71...

Zubes xa · 02-02-2013, 10:35 AM

Thanks Flappist, but if you want to go around calling me a "bogan" because i work on fighters go ahead and i cant remember any one i work with ever asking $200,000 a year because "thats wot the miners get mate" and i am in the hunter where the miners are !!! So before you go around throwing insults maybe you would like to talk to some people who are in the industry who would love to get a chance to build some new planes and keep our already small, and shrinking industry going. And the hornets are not for sale!

flappist · 02-02-2013, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubes xa

Thanks Flappist, but if you want to go around calling me a "bogan" because i work on fighters go ahead and i cant remember any one i work with ever asking $200,000 a year because "thats wot the miners get mate" and i am in the hunter where the miners are !!! So before you go around throwing insults maybe you would like to talk to some people who are in the industry who would love to get a chance to build some new planes and keep our already small, and shrinking industry going. And the hornets are not for sale!

You build Russian fighters from scratch?

Or do you assemble US fighters in Australia from mostly parts imported from USA.

Ok the $200k bogan was probably an unfair exaggeration but my point was that we are too small to be independent and using equipment that in compatible with out allies is probably the best policy.

Zubes xa · 02-02-2013, 01:37 PM

I have to agree with your point with that we are to small to be independent and using equipment that is compatible with our allies is probably the best policy. Its not only about be compatible with our allies but also with all of our other platforms such as the AWACS and inflight refuelers.

Yes I currently fix, maintain and yes rebuild US and british fighters in Australia.

I guess i just take quick offence to my industries and profession be referred to $200k bogans.The truth is, that it does not matter if its US,British,Russian or a joint project the number of qualified people in australia to build or maintain fighters is very small.

But back to the point of the post, the story is miss leading and on lots of points just plan wrong, The Hornets are NOT FOR SALE.

DoreSlamR · 02-02-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

my point was that we are too small to be independent and using equipment that in compatible with out allies is probably the best policy.

Sounds like the Australian automotive industry...

Ooh I went there!

(just a joke before I gt flamed)

Work Horse · 02-02-2013, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Seriously, we have no real intrinsic defense capability. Howard disarmed the country and now we rely on a tiny number of military who would be overwhelmed by shear numbers in an invasion and a civilian population who pee themselves at the sight of a firearm and our defense ties with other countries who think differently to us.

If we do not play nicely with the yanks we are a prime target for anyone who wants to wander in and take everything we have.

I know my position will be disputed by the do-gooders and cotton wool nannyistas but there is a reason why Switzerland has never been invaded, the Russians lost in Afghanistan, the Yanks lost in Vietnam and the Nazis lost against the Russians......

Amen Brother,

clearly before Howards meadling, our enemies were kept at bay by the fact that some of the 5% of Australians that own guns had semi-auto's.

What the do-gooders and cotton wool nannyistas won't admit is, without guns to defend ourselves more people will die!

This can clearly be seen by the number of gun deaths since the buy backs.

Trevor 57 · 03-02-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Amen Brother,

clearly before Howards meadling, our enemies were kept at bay by the fact that some of the 5% of Australians that own guns had semi-auto's.

What the do-gooders and cotton wool nannyistas won't admit is, without guns to defend ourselves more people will die!

This can clearly be seen by the number of gun deaths since the buy backs.

what a crock of ****

Work Horse · 03-02-2013, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

what a crock of ****

Only if I was serious Trev

Keepleft · 03-02-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Add some western electronics and weapons to them and they would be a very tough opponent. Since the cold war is over and China and Indonesia are our main worries.

No concern with Indonesia 'today', she trains with us, and the US. Her latest fighters are based to her north - to protect and project power into The South China Sea.

SPArKy_Dave · 14-02-2013, 03:16 AM

Grays Auctions link to the first DOD vehicles being sold -

http://www.graysonline.com/sale/5005...FSlKpgodqUAAxg