wheels-380vrx v bfxr6 v vzsv6, Falcon wins - Page 2

SSBUB · 25-10-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So they shouldn't test the BF until the VE is released?

:

no, but u know what i mean...its like comparing apples to oranges. You have an outdated model against a new one. The VE is what, 8 months away or something? I think the BF vs VE would be BETTER, simply coz thats the opposing makes in time. This little window period between holdens next make will always work in Ford favour, simply coz they get the BF out quicker and the new model is almost always superior.
Im not saying it should be VE vs BF, but really, what is wrong with that scenario?

SpoolMan · 25-10-2005, 09:17 PM

Good news and no mid corner speed problems..lol..

Windsor220 · 25-10-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

no, but u know what i mean...its like comparing apples to oranges. You have an outdated model against a new one. The VE is what, 8 months away or something? I think the BF vs VE would be BETTER, simply coz thats the opposing makes in time. This little window period between holdens next make will always work in Ford favour, simply coz they get the BF out quicker and the new model is almost always superior.
Im not saying it should be VE vs BF, but really, what is wrong with that scenario?

i know what you mean but when the VE comes out then the falcon will be considered old and we could just say the same thing back at you.The BF isnt much of an upgrade whereas the VE is a whole new car. you cant just say well we're waiting for our new model . you've got what you've got at the time.

HEMI POWER · 25-10-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=45935

This 6 speed auto seems to have woken up the Falcon, it's faster than the Commy even with with the weight disadvantage.

That's great news,the fuel consumption looks impressive over the BA too. :1syellow1

SSBUB · 25-10-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJLynx

i know what you mean but when the VE comes out then the falcon will be considered old and we could just say the same thing back at you.The BF isnt much of an upgrade whereas the VE is a whole new car. you cant just say well we're waiting for our new model . you've got what you've got at the time.

I see your point, i just figured the VE would be holdens corrosponding model to the BF. I have always tried to look at it in the view of:
vt/vx versus au
vy/vz versus ba
ve versus bf

but i digress, i guess it doesnt work like that

:

ivorya · 25-10-2005, 09:29 PM

Vehicle power standards,
Ford use DIN (Standard) measurement, ie/ 101.3kPa and 20 deg Cel while
Holden us ECE measurement, ie/ 99kPa and 25 deg Celsius.
Using Fords 290kw Boss DIN measurement, Holdens (old 285 ECE measurment equates to 292kw DIN) ref MOTOR Mag November 2003

My oponion, let there be one standard system to stop all the mine has more than yours crap only to work out we're comparing apples with oranges.

**Falcon Coupe** · 25-10-2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

no, but u know what i mean...its like comparing apples to oranges. You have an outdated model against a new one. The VE is what, 8 months away or something? I think the BF vs VE would be BETTER, simply coz thats the opposing makes in time. This little window period between holdens next make will always work in Ford favour, simply coz they get the BF out quicker and the new model is almost always superior.
Im not saying it should be VE vs BF, but really, what is wrong with that scenario?

An 05' model vs an 05' model is apples vs apples mate, it's a game of leapfrog, at the time of it's release there is something wrong if a new model is no better than the competition, but for now Ford rule ! when the VE is out we will see a similar thread, but the question remains, will the VE be faster with the the extra weight ?

max^power · 25-10-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Good news!
But then again you'd expect the XR6 to beat the SV6 let alone spank the new magna 380... :hihi:

spank em both next time

:

jmc-007 · 25-10-2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

That I didn't know!
Where is holden losing the power?

Yes exactly i am still trying to work it out??? Drivetrain losses.

MX837M-GE · 25-10-2005, 10:04 PM

Sorry to interrup the XR vs SV6 thing, but what the hell happened to that VRX?

Last month Wheels got the VRX to do 0-100 in 7.5sec. What happened? Did someone replace the rocket fuel with diesel?

Good work by the Ford though!

I thought the 380's interior was alright when I had poke around one the other day.

max^power · 25-10-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

So they shouldn't test the BF until the VE is released?

:

When the new holden is realsed, they will test it against the other cars just like this test. Then Holden fans will get their BF vs Holden test!

FPV · 25-10-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

I see your point, i just figured the VE would be holdens corrosponding model to the BF. I have always tried to look at it in the view of:
vt/vx versus au
vy/vz versus ba
ve versus bf

but i digress, i guess it doesnt work like that

:

I disagree, i think the BF competes directly with the VZ. As it is launched as a facelift to the BA, Holden decided to pull out a new series every year and its major final facelift was the VZ last year. Facelifted model versus Facelifted model, not Facelifted model (BF) versus All new model (VE). Theres no denying the BF will go up against the VE commodore but Ford and Holden are not going to synchronise there model launchs for comparisions. This comparo just shows how world class the falcon is compared to the rest of the aussie built vehicles. Would people be saying BF doesnt go up against the VZ, if the VZ had won? The VE will have its real Ford competitor come 07/08 with the brand new falcon, not a facelift.

4Vman · 25-10-2005, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

An 05' model vs an 05' model is apples vs apples mate, it's a game of leapfrog, at the time of it's release there is something wrong if a new model is no better than the competition, but for now Ford rule ! when the VE is out we will see a similar thread, but the question remains, will the VE be faster with the the extra weight ?

Spot on, VE isnt even released yet and is still a while off.
Maybe BF2 V VE?.
The BIG question is how much will Euro 3 hamper VE performance over VZ???
Especially when Euro 3 compliant BF is already ahead of the non Euro 3 VZ.....

Ryan · 25-10-2005, 10:24 PM

Good to see the new 6 speed auto made a difference to the new BF's performance.

Now lets see how the 8 bangers go against each other.

:

SSBUB · 25-10-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV

I disagree, i think the BF competes directly with the VZ. As it is launched as a facelift to the BA, Holden decided to pull out a new series every year and its major final facelift was the VZ last year. Facelifted model versus Facelifted model, not Facelifted model (BF) versus All new model (VE). Theres no denying the BF will go up against the VE commodore but Ford and Holden are not going to synchronise there model launchs for comparisions. This comparo just shows how world class the falcon is compared to the rest of the aussie built vehicles. Would people be saying BF doesnt go up against the VZ, if the VZ had won? The VE will have its real Ford competitor come 07/08 with the brand new falcon, not a facelift.

good point...in that case, and in this class, i think the sv6 is stung...can we do a vzss vs xr8 test, can we can we huh huh :dr_Evil:

Holden need a turbo to match the xr6t :voldar02:

**Falcon Coupe** · 25-10-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VY18s

Good to see the new 6 speed auto made a difference to the new BF's performance.

Now lets see how the 8 bangers go against each other.

:

I'm more interested in how the Typhoon will go against the Holdens
Injector change and edit = 300rwkw + 6 speed auto giving constant boost :sm_headba :voldar02:

Deadman · 25-10-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Holden need a turbo to match the xr6t :voldar02:

due about 2007/08.

MADDER · 25-10-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

I see your point, i just figured the VE would be holdens corrosponding model to the BF. I have always tried to look at it in the view of:
vt/vx versus au
vy/vz versus ba
ve versus bf

but i digress, i guess it doesnt work like that

:

When the VZ SV6 came out at the end of 2004 with 190kw/5speed auto it was compared with the BA XR6 182kw/4speed auto by both Drive (VZ vs BA MK1) and Wheels. Be mindful that the BA XR6 was already 2 years old and in that space of time Holden had already gone VY/VYII/VZ. So they're informing buyers of the here and now.

BTW: The Ford won both those comparos too.

:

Ryan · 25-10-2005, 10:30 PM

Holden needs to drop the boring old V6 and get another 16 and Turbo the bastard to be dead even with the XR6T.

:

Sorry but I just think the Ford I6 has it over the Alloytec.

vztrt · 25-10-2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadman

due about 2007/08.

That will be good to see the XR6T and a holden turbo up against each other.
The holden motor should be good with a turbo as it's high reving.

XRated · 25-10-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSBUB

good point...in that case, and in this class, i think the sv6 is stung...can we do a vzss vs xr8 test, can we can we huh huh :dr_Evil:

Heehehe yeah would be good to see with the new changes.

HEMI POWER · 25-10-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I'm more interested in how the Typhoon will go against the Holdens
Injector change and edit = 300rwkw + 6 speed auto giving constant boost :sm_headba :voldar02:

I don't think HSV will match a Standard F6 let alone a worked one. :evil_laug

SSBUB · 25-10-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MADDER

When the VZ SV6 came out at the end of 2004 with 190kw/5speed auto it was compared with the BA XR6 182kw/4speed auto by both Drive (VZ vs BA MK1) and Wheels. Be mindful that the BA XR6 was already 2 years old and in that space of time Holden had already gone VY/VYII/VZ. So they're informing buyers of the here and now.

BTW: The Ford won both those comparos too.

:

Im not suprised, i think the sv6 is a bit crappy....in fact im looking forward to the VE, purely coz i thought the VY shape sucked...the VZ is a bit better, but i like the rounder lines..hence buying a VX :king:

MITCHAY · 25-10-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VY18s

Holden needs to drop the boring old V6 and get another 16 and Turbo the bastard to be dead even with the XR6T.

:

Sorry but I just think the Ford I6 has it over the Alloytec.

I like the SV6, but that said, I've never driven one. I wouldn't get an auto though Id get the 6spd manual.

What is the pros and cons of a V6 and a I6? I have NFI why Holden have V6s and Ford have I6s.

FordFan86 · 25-10-2005, 11:03 PM

Holden may mean a great deal to Japan if they want another turbo engine. :P

Ryan · 25-10-2005, 11:10 PM

I think Holden made a pretty big mistake by dropping the I6 after the VL had finished production.

Maybe I should'nt bag the V6 too much cause ive never driven one but some of the stories ive heard make me shutter not to mention some of the strange noises and rattles ive heard from VNs-VSs.

But the problem is if Holden were to produce another 16 how would they do it? I personally would like to see them make it not import one from Japan like the RB30 (Allthough IMHO the RB30 was one of the best I6s to ever go into a Holden).

Bossxr8 · 25-10-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Spot on, VE isnt even released yet and is still a while off.
Maybe BF2 V VE?.
The BIG question is how much will Euro 3 hamper VE performance over VZ???
Especially when Euro 3 compliant BF is already ahead of the non Euro 3 VZ.....

The big unanswered question is what are Holden doing about Euro 3 for VZ, as they will have to be compliant by Jan 1. They will have to spend the money developing their current engines to this standard when it is probably 10 months away from being replaced. Bad scenario for them. Apparently the Gen 3 is running out of emissions compliance in the US, hence why it has been dumped in favour of the LS2, so Holden will have to do a lot of work to make it compliant over here. Holden are really losing the plot at the moment. Not that thats a bad thing.

**Falcon Coupe** · 25-10-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I like the SV6, but that said, I've never driven one. I wouldn't get an auto though Id get the 6spd manual.

What is the pros and cons of a V6 and a I6? I have NFI why Holden have V6s and Ford have I6s.

My opinion is I6 has better torque and it comes in sooner, i have a Rodeo 03' V6 which is nowhere near as good towing as my 97' I6 Ford panelvan was, i have to rev the crap out of it to get anywhere and it chews petrol worse than a V8......i have put a deposit on something else.

XplosiveR6 · 25-10-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

What is the pros and cons of a V6 and a I6? I have NFI why Holden have V6s and Ford have I6s.

the positives of a I6 is that they are perfectly balenced (just like a boxer engine) so therfore they are a typically a very smoot motor. Where as a V6 is quite unbalanced and needs a hell of a lot of balancers to keep the thig from rocking all over the place, A V6s only real adavntage is that its compact and was only bought about so a 6 cyl can be used in a Front wheel drive application.

Ford have a I6 because it chose to keep developing the motor from when falcon was first introduced into Australia and is Australias only designed and manufactured car engine.

Where as Holden decided to use a global GM motor, which hapens to be a V6 which holden only asemble

vztrt · 25-10-2005, 11:35 PM

Also I6 is better on gas and this gives ford the edge in the taxi market.