what does the falcon do better than the territory?

[zilo]

Closest i came to owning a Territory was renting one for a week in Tassie.

Nothing particularly bad about it.

Just felt like a same old same old taxi....nothing inspiring.

76 litres for 550k wasn't bad.


will i ever buy one? Nope.

[Fordman1]

Falcons are better at being popular with Taxi drivers.

SZII Territory is a better family vehicle in every way.

[Olbucko]

The 4WD version of the Terri is far superior on slippery surfaces like, snow, mud, wet grass or loose gravel, the reason I bought one as I live in the country and travel on dirt roads regularly.
As for the 2WD version , it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[Stefan]

A territory has a more comfortable ride, more room for an tall fat guy in the backseat, better storage than say a C63....Territory must be a better car.

Territory is also better than a 911,

[RANGEREST]

Go around corners and not much else,
I previously had a G6e and my Titanium is a nicer drive, quieter by miles and much more practical, I can see why people are moving away from Falcon and Commodore for SUV type vehicles as family cars.

[HULK_I6T]

As per performance of territory to falcon..

Yes the territory is heavier.. But

On the 4 speed territory rwd they fit 3.73 gears in the diff as opposed to falcons 3.23 gears

In the awd 4 speed they get the 4.11s to get em going

The awd 6 speed territory auto gets the 3.46 ratio

So performance wise there isn't a big disadvantage that people think. The falcon is lighter but has the longest legs in the world through its gearing, giving less torque at any road speed.

[CyberWasp]

Win at Bathurst

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

As per performance of territory to falcon..
Yes the territory is heavier.. But
On the 4 speed territory rwd they fit 3.73 gears in the diff as opposed to falcons 3.23 gears
In the awd 4 speed they get the 4.11s to get em going
The awd 6 speed territory auto gets the 3.46 ratio
So performance wise there isn't a big disadvantage that people think. The falcon is lighter but has the longest legs in the world through its gearing, giving less torque at any road speed.

In "testing" the FAWD... I lined up alongside a Mate's Stock BF2 6spd auto XR6 (mine is 6spd auto with 3:46's)... and the Wagon had the advantage on initial take off each time... the AWD just grips and goes ! But it wasn't long before I was rounded up and the XR6 just pulled away from me ! Once rolling, it's lighter weight proving to be an advantage... in a straight line !

Through the twisty hills roads though... there wasn't as much of a difference as some would think ! The XR6 with lower suspension, lower 45series profile & stickier rubber made gains in some places... and lost ground in others to the wagon, even with it's higher ride height, slightly taller 55series 80/20 mud & snow tyres and extra bulk ! We even swapped seats to double check... and the results were the same !

A standard Wagon wouldn't have had a chance against the XR6 in the twisty bits though !

Off road (& in poor weather conditions on or off road).. the AWD has a huge advantage ! The stability of the FAWD compared to a standard wagon is chalk & cheese ! A Terry AWD would be the same (as the FAWD)... and offer a better ride from the rear as well !

D

[Cobramad]

Having owned two XR6 Turbos and a BF F6, an expanding family drove us to a Turbo Ghia Territory. Granted the XR's and F6 handled better (as expected) our Terry has been a great family wagon, effortlessly handling a tribe of kids and absorbing the punishment they inevitably dish out.
A series of performance and braking upgrades (remember these need to go hand in hand)
now finds us with a well-priced, family SUV that after 8yrs, still holds its own against the latest offerings in terms of handling, braking and performance.
If you are after all the latest tech and gizmo's, you can find these in all of the others, but for a brilliant SUV driving experience, the fairly ancient Terry architecture still stands up, illustrating that the initial design was well up to the design brief.
We liked ours so much that we bought a friends Ghia Turbo, with even more time and cash lavished on it and regularly hammer the latest offerings from HSV and even FPV, in a straight line drag race.
Remember, it is exactly what it is and will never be to everyone's liking, but for this family, it just fits the bill.
Mal K

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Anyone who thinks the B-series Falcons steer better than a Territory clearly haven't driven a Territory.

Having driven neither a B Series Falcon nor a similar vintage Territory i cant fathom how the later would be a better drive. Im not saying your wrong at all, but can you enlighten me as to how the Territory is better?

As for space id say the Territory nails the falcon, but i guess they are very different cars and wouldnt be cross shopped, or would they? If they were id pick a falcon hands down.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm not really a fan of the whole SUV thing but the SZ Territory is a nice place to be, I converted a few SY Territories into Mica Paramedic vehicles so driven them around a bit and helped with an electric brake setup on an SZ TDCI.

A bit of a pain in the *** to run wires through for emergency lighting on the roof, sharp edges on the metal around the seatbelt pretensioners in the B pillars, slice up your hands and wires like razors if you aren't careful.

[Stefan]

I went from BA XR6 to Territory. The tezza was slower, thirstier, had the seating position of a truck, felt heavy, had more body roll, had chewed out bushes at 75,000kms. Glad to see the back of the tezza

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Having driven neither a B Series Falcon nor a similar vintage Territory i cant fathom how the later would be a better drive. Im not saying your wrong at all, but can you enlighten me as to how the Territory is better?....

I claimed they steer better, not necessarily a better drive.

Here's why; ref. http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2572100028B8D4

A new front suspension is the start point as Ford starts revealing Territory



19 August 2003
By MARTON PETTENDY

THE first look under Territory’s all-new exterior sheetmetal has revealed a number of world firsts.

Ford is claiming the redesigned front suspension, optimised rear suspension and unique new 17-inch tyres result in Territory providing a car-like ride and handling offers the best of both on and off-road worlds.

Known as "Virtual Pivot Control Link" and replacing Falcon’s double wishbone set-up, Territory’s new front suspension is a sophisticated four-link design typically found on more expensive European vehicles.

It will be employed on all Territory versions, whether they are all-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive.

Designed to allow the placement of the lower pivot point as far outboard as necessary to achieve Ford’s vehicle dynamics targets for Territory, the new suspension replaces Falcon’s single lower A-arm with a pair of lower control arms, mounted to two separate balljoints.

The separate short and long lower links create a virtual pivot point at their imaginary intersection, which would have interfered with Territory’s front brake rotor, which is 25mm-larger than Falcon. Hence the Virtual Pivot Control Link name. The double-balljoint system is the first of its type in the Ford world.

The new suspension therefore incorporates a new spindle, or knuckle, featuring two lower control arm balljoint mounts, a larger centre hub to accommodate drive through it, new calliper and (now vertical) anti-roll bar mount and new, front-mounted steering arm mounts.

Territory is said to be the first locally engineered vehicle to feature a forward-mounted steering rack.

Ford vehicle dynamics manager Stephan Presser, who replaced Ford chassis development manager Alex de Vlugt in May and previously worked on suspension systems for the Ford Ka, new Fiesta and, most recently, the next generation Focus, explained the system.

"SUVs leave room for improvement, so Territory hopes to capitalise on that," he said.

"Agility, stability, precision and comfort are the key attributes of Ford DNA. The new Virtual Pivot Control Link front suspension delivers on all those goals and ensures car-like driving dynamics for Territory.

"We set ourselves very high targets for our scrub radius and kingpin offset. Moving the lower pivot point allowed us to achieve those targets to ensure real benefits for drivers."

Mr Presser said Territory’s scrub radius target ensured a high level of braking stability while its kingpin offset level reduced torque steer and steering wheel vibrations. Together, they are said to deliver ride and handling levels not seen in an SUV.

Ford confirmed Territory would be shorter overall than Falcon, while it also revealed:

* Territory’s wheelbase is 2842mm compared with 2829mm for Falcon
* Front end track width has increased 60mm to 1620mm
* Spring rate has increased 17Nm/mm to 50Nm/mm
* Anti-roll bar diameter has increased 3mm to 27mm
* Rebound travel has increased 11mm to 93mm
* Front roll centre height has increased a big 70mm to 132mm.

At the rear, Falcon’s Control Blade IRS has increased in track by 30mm, while spring rates are up 30 per cent, rebound travel is up 20mm, roll centre height up 60mm and suspension bushes are retuned.

Apart from the larger front brake discs and callipers, Ford also revealed a new tyre designed specifically for Territory AWD.

Developed in conjunction with Goodyear in Luxembourg and to be produced locally, the new silica-based Goodyear Fortera measures 235/60 R17 and is said to be its world-first original-equipment fitment.

Territory RWD will employ a Goodyear Integrity tyre of the same size and a full-size spare wheel will be standard.

Three-and-a-half years in the making, Territory’s new front suspension is claimed to return a best-in-class turning circle of 11.4 metres, while Territory RWD’s 52/48 front/rear weight distribution alters to 54/46 in the AWD version.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I claimed they steer better, not necessarily a better drive.

Here's why; ref.

That explains why they steer well, however there's nothing indicating they steer better than a Falcon, of which I have heard a few times within this thread.

I've spent a lot of time in both and can certainly acknowledge the Territory steers very well for the class of vehicle it is.
In fact it does most things very well for what it is.

However, it is not in the same class as the Falcon dynamically. This isn't a knock on the Territory as it does well to be where it is.
But, it is still somewhat more truck like than a Falcon.

[mik]

i have only had a sit in a terri a couple of times, one thing i did like about it was that it was easier getting into it for old farts such as myself with dodgy bones, and thats is no reflection on the falcon , most modern cars have the lower roof line and are lower to the ground these days ,
actually the current falcon maybe a bit better for entry than my au with the adjusted door/roofline from fg onwards? the falcon is still a comfy place to be once in though.
i have thought about getting a terri a few times , but they seem to have a lot of issues.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Win at Bathurst

Yeah the last time a "real Falcon" won at Brhurst was over 40 years ago.

Territory wasn't even around then.

[FPV+fteT3]

The Falcon gets better representation on hoon TV than the Terry, ACA Tracey can attest to this

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mik

most modern cars have the lower roof line and are lower to the ground these days ,

In fact the high step-in passenger vehicle is sweeping the market, particularly the family market, comprising about a third of car sales in Australia. They're pushing low step-ins aside - the Territory has done the same thing to Falcon sales in the Ford stable. Within Ford they complement each other to cover the market. They shouldn't be compared with each other directly, it depends on the broad requirements of each buyer, not which one is more fun to drive.

Territory is basically a Falcon on stilts aimed at the family market.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sox

That explains why they steer well, however there's nothing indicating they steer better than a Falcon, of which I have heard a few times ....

My comparison was to B-series Falcons, which I agree are not a bad steerer either. However if the Falcon setup was better why would Ford have designed a virtual pivot front end (similar to the Territory) for the next generation of Falcons, the FG/FGX?

Originally Posted by new2ford

....
Territory is basically a Falcon on stilts aimed at the family market.

Correct. They are also more correctly described as a crossover (car derived) rather than a SUV (light truck/pickup derived) which brings with it the dynamic benefits mentioned.

Lets just celebrate both the Falcon and the Territory and be proud we had such great vehicles designed and manufactured here.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Raptor

My comparison was to B-series Falcons, which I agree are not a bad steerer either. However if the Falcon setup was better why would Ford have designed a virtual pivot front end (similar to the Territory) for the next generation of Falcons, the FG/FGX?

Progress.
Clearly the design is better, however that doesn't mean it feels better implemented in a vehicle weighing ~400kg more, using higher profile SUV tyres, higher center of gravity, etc, when compared to an older design in a smaller lighter car type vehicle.

Apples and oranges and all that...

[Vesper Martini]

I did 2 mods to my Territory, that IMO make it better than Falcon.

-LPG to fix economy issue & 20" wheels which makes a huge difference to the handling,
as for Steering? I'm pretty sure the Territory has a better turning circle, its dynamics feel fine to me.

I could go on & on with reasons why I feel its better, buy I'm not alone .

Falcons demise wasn't because people didn't want a big car anymore, people actually wanted bigger! SUV's in general have take the place of the large family Sedan.

Personally I can never see myself going away from the elevated more upright seating position.

[MercurySilver]

Hmmm
G6et or terri.

One looks better and goes faster
And for two people that'll do me.

[EFFalcon]

if only they could combine the good parts of both.. like a wagon :|

[Road_Warrior]

I own both an SZ Territory and a BA Falcon. We used to have an AU wagon.

There is nothing, repeat nothing, the wagon did better than the Territory apart from perhaps squeeze a bit more junk in the trunk.

I'm not sure a new car buyer is going to be cross shopping the two, because they are two different cars for two different purposes. It's a bit of a dumb comparison to be honest.

The CoG of the Territory is noticeable and the Falcon is easier to punt around suburbia than the Tez. But the Tez is a better family vehicle by a country mile and feels less ponderous to drive than the Falcon. That virtual pivot front end and EPAS steering is the shiz.

Try getting a new Territory with an I6T or a V8 and see how you go...

[blackf6]

Too easy. The falcon does v8, the terri .... Doesn't.

[HULK_I6T]

A few people have said they are too different and wouldn't be cross shopped?

Isn't the main reason for the falcon demise is that traditional falcon buys are buying SUVs such as territory / Kluger etc?? So they are cross shopped.

Why wouldn't you cross shop these cars?

I would imagine buyers criteria would be some or all of the following..

Space for family
Comfortable car / relaxed transport
Ability to tow
light commercial duties
Performance family car
Budget conscious
Brand loyalty

Surely you can compare a territory against a falcon on this basis above

If your not looking for any of the above, not sure why you would consider either falcon or territory. Buy a convertible sports car instead

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

Too easy. The falcon does v8, the terri .... Doesn't.

Territory Turbo AWD

[arronm]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

A few people have said they are too different and wouldn't be cross shopped?

Isn't the main reason for the falcon demise is that traditional falcon buys are buying SUVs such as territory / Kluger etc?? So they are cross shopped.

Why wouldn't you cross shop these cars?

I would imagine buyers criteria would be some or all of the following..

Space for family
Comfortable car / relaxed transport
Ability to tow
light commercial duties
Performance family car
Budget conscious


Surely you can compare a territory against a falcon on this basis above

If your not looking for any of the above, not sure why you would consider either falcon or territory. Buy a convertible sports car instead

You just described a commodore sportwagon.

That vehicle ticks all the boxes. Ford dropped the ball there.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by arronm

You just described the commodore hatchback.

Edited for accuracy, but it doesn't tick those boxes.

[T MAN]

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

A few people have said they are too different and wouldn't be cross shopped?

Isn't the main reason for the falcon demise is that traditional falcon buys are buying SUVs such as territory / Kluger etc?? So they are cross shopped.

Why wouldn't you cross shop these cars?

I would imagine buyers criteria would be some or all of the following..

Space for family
Comfortable car / relaxed transport
Ability to tow
light commercial duties
Performance family car
Budget conscious
Brand loyalty

Surely you can compare a territory against a falcon on this basis above

If your not looking for any of the above, not sure why you would consider either falcon or territory. Buy a convertible sports car instead

isnt ford dropping the territory as well as the falcon?