Fog lamps illegal without fog

[gz1]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

I don't understand why this would be illegal? whats the difference between foggies and normal lights? Normal lights on during the day isn't illegal and they are way brighter than foggies.

On a nice sunny day, pointless yes. Illegal why? Dosen't make any sense.

Because if was not illegal they could not fine you and raise any revenue :

[aye you]

Ok, so for a nub from the territory who is going to live in VIC for a few months come June, and is driving down his AU, complete with front Bar and driving lights. Can someone tell me weather these driving lights mounted in the bar are illegal to use in anything but bad weather? or are we talking the big bastards that people mount on nudge bars?

[noosacuda]

Maybe just like how Volvo park lights come on with the ignition, to warn other drivers that a Volvo is approaching,the fog lights warn that a is on the road (when used when not required due to weather conditions that is)

[ebxr8240]

Modified fog lights should be looked at and defected, same with rear fog lights..
If there's 50 watt light in them and say ??? 20 watt in rear light I cannot see an issue ??
If the lense is clear and smooth its a driving / spot light...Esp with over 50 watt globes..

This where the confusion is.. I have had some people complain about the fog lights on my car flashing in there eyes.. There is NO way the fog lights on my Rex would get into any one's eyes .. I think in SOME cases people just want to WINGE...
Envious they havn't got them ???..

[SVTVNM]

Originally Posted by DRU842

The other issue not covered so far is the rear fog lights that are as bright as some brake lights eg Hyundai. Very distracting when not in poor weather.

I can not agree more I find this more anoying than anything, don't these halfwits realise how anoying this is at night. It once was only Hyundai drivers but infortunately the bad habit has spread. My problem is the small fog light in the front bumper in my Mustang are on automatically with the headlights.

[dom_105]

What if they are wired up to your high beam?

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by dom_105

What if they are wired up to your high beam?

they are then classed as driving lights fog lights are wired to your parkers with a switch to turn them off . the should not be able to be turned on unless the parkers are on for fog lights and not on unless high beam is on for driving lights

[shepherdfte]

Guys to clarify a couple of points that apply here:

There is a very good reason why it is illegal in most sensible countries including ours to drive around with your foggies on unless foggy. They are designed to produce light under the fog layer in bad driving conditions when main beam just bounces back at you. So they are still forward projecting beams of reasonable (often 50 ish w) intensity.

People who say "but they are only the same as my dipped headlights" miss the point - dipped beams are specifcally designed to throw light down and to the left, and hence not glare oncoming traffic. Foggies send light straight ahead, even if they are mounted low. Older designs happen to be dull enough not to be an issue, and fine, but why use them anyway?

If you want to be seen (and it is proven to be safer), use dipped beam. If that is blinding people more than your foggies, get your dipped beam adjusted.

And folk above are correct:

driving lights = additional main beam lamps (the ones that come on in addition to the main beam lamps in Falcons actually count as driving lamps even though part of the "normal" headlamp). After market pencil beams that wire to the driving lamps are also driving lights.

Some cars have side lights mounted in the bumper bar seperate to the main lamps, but if they are of low 20w or so rating and of spread beam they are just side lights. If you have lights like this that must be on with dipped beam they are likely to be side lights.

Fog lamps can be turned on without main beam soley so you avoid rebound off the fog, not so as to let you point them at people.

Rear fog lights (not mandatory in Oz but they are in the UK and other places), again are only for VERY low visibility to stop people on fast roads driving into the back of you. They should never be on once another vehicle is close behind, and never in good weather. This is because they are exactly like brake lights (indeed many euro cars have a pair next to the brake lights, and only the absence of a third high-level one give up the fact they are fog lights).

NEITHER front or rear fogs should be used in rain (unless it's so torrential you think someone might crash into you at 10k/hr), as they cause glare off wet glass windscreens.

Still, last thought for the weekend - none of it compares to muppets with badly adjusted main lights or bulbs out. We're all saints compared to them! Have a good one.

Andy

[prydey]

as far as i'm concerned, fog lights are yellow. any other light is a driving light and the law does not apply.

[my gt]

hang on,
driving lights are different to fog lights

[Rodp]

This old chestnut again.

Certain fog lights dazzle me when driving (even during the day) and a number of times on Heathcote Rd (where it's single lane 100kph) I've been dazzled by fog lights to the point where it impared my vision significantly. VX Commodores are the worst but I have been dazzled by a number of B series Fords. I don't know what it is about them but it makes my vision white and glassy.

So if you want to pull out the 'it's safer' line and keep in mind that some drivers (like myself) get impaired vision from certain fog lights while your closing speed with me is ~200kph, then you have a skewed version of safe.

The other argument is 'I'm just jealous of them'. I have them on my BA and it's the only switch in the entire car I've never touched.

If you want to be seen better during the day, put your headlights on. Leave the fog lights for fog.

[Melz]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

That'll hurt the Commodore ute drivers.

Doesn't hurt me

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

In some countries around the world. Its actually illegal tp drive without what they call "day lights" ..IMo if car is fitted with proper FOG lights with reflective fog lens
they should be fine and shouldn't blind anyone..
One of my cars is a Jap spec WRX which has fog lights on switch which can be turned on through the day.. Imo it doesn't hurt anyone, makes car easier to see....
They say there's LESS crashes when vehicles leave there lights on...
Canada have this rule, some states in U.S...

You might be confusing front fog lamps with DRL's here.

Originally Posted by DRU842

The other issue not covered so far is the rear fog lights that are as bright as some brake lights eg Hyundai. Very distracting when not in poor weather.

Rule 217 has always prohibited the use of rear fog lamps in clear weather conditions. The rule (217) was amended May 2007 to include the same prohibition with front fog lamps, that 'rule package' is being gazetted by each State and Territory parliament 'now'.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

ITs those blindingly bright red lights on the back of Hyundais anda few other cars that drive me crazy!
They should be illegal, or at least wired to hi beams or something. they really hurt my eyes.

On the contrary, your cars standard taillights are utterly useless in even moderate rain conditions when driving in daylight on a freeway or open-road, in heavy fog or bushfire smoke, or when driving on a gravel road or in a dustorm, blizzard etc.

If anything, the rear fog lamp should be a mandatory feature - for those unhappy times when they might be needed. Cheap insurance! Indeed, it is the only 'mandatory' fog-light system in the world; EU. Front fogs are and will always be optional, everywhere.

Originally Posted by aye you

Ok, so for a nub from the territory who is going to live in VIC for a few months come June, and is driving down his AU, complete with front Bar and driving lights. Can someone tell me weather these driving lights mounted in the bar are illegal to use in anything but bad weather? or are we talking the big bastards that people mount on nudge bars?

IF the lamps are 'factory fitted' and are those appearing in the lower portion of the bumper bar and are white-optic in colour, then yes, these will be complianced fog lamps. On the lens near the 'E Mark' will be the designation "02B", The letter 'B' tells police the lamp is a complianced front fog lamp, AS DOES the ISO front fog lamp switch symbol.

Originally Posted by noosacuda

Maybe just like how Volvo park lights come on with the ignition, to warn other drivers that a Volvo is approaching,the fog lights warn that a is on the road (when used when not required due to weather conditions that is)

You are referencing OLDER Volvo makes that used Scandanavian Spec DRL's in place of having 'parkers':- (12v system - DRL's = P21watts, Parkers = P5watts). Volvo AUS advise they stopped fitting these (the DRL's) some time ago domestically.

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Modified fog lights should be looked at and defected, same with rear fog lights.. If there's 50 watt light in them and say ??? 20 watt in rear light I cannot see an issue ?? If the lense is clear and smooth its a driving / spot light...Esp with over 50 watt globes..

This where the confusion is.. I have had some people complain about the fog lights on my car flashing in there eyes.. There is NO way the fog lights on my Rex would get into any one's eyes .. I think in SOME cases people just want to WINGE... Envious they haven't got them ???..

*12 volt system:-
1. Front fog lamps are complianced at 12v55watts.
2. Front fog lamps are either white-optic or selective yellow in colour. 99% of the new car market use white-optic version.
3. Rear fog lamps are complianced and supplied with P21watt bulbs
4. Momentary glare might be caused by a loose lamp/bulb/housing or by hitting a bump in the road, when approaching traffic over a crest etc.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

they are then classed as driving lights fog lights are wired to your parkers with a switch to turn them off . the should not be able to be turned on unless the parkers are on for fog lights and not on unless high beam is on for driving lights

In Australia, front fog lamps are wired per ADR13 for MA/MB/MC cateogories to operate when the headlight switch is on park (sidelights-position), low and high-beam. But in usability for maximum driver benefit, then yes, it is safest to have them with just the parkers on - means your front indicators can be seen more clearly by other traffic, and reflected glare is reduced.

Originally Posted by shepherdfte

NEITHER front or rear fogs should be used in rain (unless it's so torrential you think someone might crash into you at 10k/hr), as they cause glare off wet glass windscreens.

On the contrary, per above response - standard taillights are utterly worthless in even 3mls of roadwater in daylight conditions, here - the rear fog light begins to perform, the worse it gets the more effective for the equipped vehicle.

Front fog lamps can aid very well a drivers vision when under moderate to heavy rain conditions. It is what is taught to learners on the Continent of Europe and is also suggested so by Hella, in their manufacturers handbook.

Originally Posted by prydey

as far as i'm concerned, fog lights are yellow. any other light is a driving light and the law does not apply.

Irrelevant, your 'opinion' is false.

The VIC rule change, results from a changed ARR217. ALL STATES and the NT and ACT will now have the same prohibition. WA and NSW have always maintained such a prohibition in regulations seperate to the ARR's.

Mind you, your chances of being booked? Well, in NSW our HWP cars rest at stations.

[exrtnz]

Arent they called driving lamps? i use them quite often and never had a problem .

Mark

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by exrtnz

Arent they called driving lamps? i use them quite often and never had a problem .

Mark

Troll has to be. But 'no'.

On the lens near the 'E Mark' will be the designation "02B", The letter 'B' tells police the lamp is a complianced front fog lamp, AS DOES the ISO front fog lamp switch symbol.

A 'driving lamp', by standards design is used to aid a vehicles standard high-beam performance, and will only operate when the headlamp switch is flicked to high-beam. Aftermarket installs must have an additional switch, so the driving lamps can be switched off independently of the cars standard high-beams.

A driving light must not operate when the cars headlights are on low-beam or with the cars parkers (sidelights).

An actual compliant driving lamp, bears totally different photometrics and beam characteristics to those of front fog lights, but colouring of a front fog lamp or driving lamp can be 'white-optic', that is the same! Here, on a driving lamps lens,- near its 'E Mark'; will be the designation "HR", the letter "R" tells police the lamp is a complianced driving lamp!

[exrtnz]

Well I use them whenever i feel like it , driven past coppers with them on and no such problems. Probably how you act with them on I'd say as to whether you get pulled over or not.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by exrtnz

Well I use them whenever i feel like it , driven past coppers with them on and no such problems. Probably how you act with them on I'd say as to whether you get pulled over or not.

Hey look, if you want to drive around with your front fog lamps on in clear weather conditions, you go right for it.

The law stands, and whether or not it is enforced is a matter for each jurisdictions indvidual HWP and police. (The new rule change brings AUS in line with the rest of the world btw, with regards this subject).

That said in behavioural terms; why should I not, say, ~ drive in the right-lane of freeways at the speed-limit cause 'I feel like it', why should I use my indicators if I don't want too??

Etc etc.....

Perhaps you should start a new thread vis; "What road rules do you deliberately dis-obey, generally, and why??".

[Mechan1k]

Woo hoo ... the fog light thread ... AGAIN.
Read the road roads ... it is ALL in there.
Keepleft has pointed out pretty much the main points ... he knows the rules here and abroad (as it is part of his line of work) ... no use arguing with him about it either.

I can't believe the amount of posts in here with people stating stuff that isn't even correct.

Thank goodness someone put the correct information in here ... I just didn't have the time to write it all in while at work.

[cupic]

IMHO every commo cars should be classed illegal because some anus allow these to have a brighter than average bulb causing the Policy maker to blanket cane everyone.


Point should be taken as too line up a falcon and commo and a see and look approach is needed

[LTDHO]

Before this thread get's locked.

A) It should have always been illegal
B) You are not Mark Scaif just because you have fog lights
C) this with current hi serires cars will still complain that the lights do not distract.

[Interceptor]

what i'd really love to know is, wtf is the point of driving around with your foglights on if it isnt foggy? one of the few perks of my job is that i get to drive anything on the yard home, which means i've driven XR's, SS commodores, landcruisers, prado's and pajero's with foglights, and with ONLY the foglights on, i'm if i can see anything properly on the road further than 15 feet in front of me...... and thats in CLEAR weather, i wouldnt drive with only foglights on at night, so i turn them off and use my low beams

makes me ask..... "if the foglights dont serve any functional purpose in clear weather, why turn them on??"

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

what i'd really love to know is, wtf is the point of driving around with your foglights on if it isnt foggy? one of the few perks of my job is that i get to drive anything on the yard home, which means i've driven XR's, SS commodores, landcruisers, prado's and pajero's with foglights, and with ONLY the foglights on, i'm if i can see anything properly on the road further than 15 feet in front of me...... and thats in CLEAR weather, i wouldnt drive with only foglights on at night, so i turn them off and use my low beams

makes me ask..... "if the foglights dont serve any functional purpose in clear weather, why turn them on??"

Well yes they do serve a function..
Because as we all know its safer to drive with lights ON..
It works for bike riders and sure does on cars. Some people have issues seeing certain colours.. But they all see lights..

I was a passanger in a car when the driver went straight through a railway crossing with RED lights flashing...I yelled at him !! Are you going to STOP!! I found out he was colour blind and couldn't see the lights flashing...

We don't have cars fitted with PROPER day lights so the fog lights do the job..
The problem is people change the globes and lense in them!!

[andrewr]

Fog lights have been banned unless there is fog in WA for ages.. Mostly I think because people were using them right next to their numberplates to blind speed cameras.

Only foglights that really annoy me are the rear red ones on excels.. Although I do think people look stupid with all their lights on during the day, why not just run your normal lights, why run everything?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Well yes they do serve a function..
Because as we all know its safer to drive with lights ON..
It works for bike riders and sure does on cars.

No, it's not.

Since when did bikes come fitted with fog lights?

[deesun]

I cant believe it took so long for KEEPLEFT to wade in on this thread. Nearly 22hrs KL, you must be on holidays. And I'm with RODp, although i dont think i actually know where the switch is on my XR.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Rodp

No, it's not.

Since when did bikes come fitted with fog lights?

Bikes have hardwired lights, when the engine is running the lights cannot be turned off.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Bikes have hardwired lights, when the engine is running the lights cannot be turned off.

...and headlights do make them more visible, but to suggest that foglights on cars are comparable to lights on a bike during the day is patently false.

[hot_mini]

well yesterday while police where searchin thru my ute they told me it depends on the cop you get and what mood he is in if u get a fine or even get pulled over. i havnt had a problem so far

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by deesun

I cant believe it took so long for KEEPLEFT to wade in on this thread. Nearly 22hrs KL, you must be on holidays. And I'm with RODp, although i dont think i actually know where the switch is on my XR.

Greetings,-
Can't find the XR's fog lamp switch? See this post, note the ISO symbols:-
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...78&postcount=4

Been away, just had a quick run up to Tamworth, observing RTA's new speed cameras on the New England Highway located in 60km/h zones at those smaller towns. Speed between towns by a clear majority in the 100km/h zones varied between 110-130km/h. A Saturday afternoon drive left me thinking (//) might best be applied once again, we'll see. Noted Tamworth has changed much in the last 5 or so years since I last dropped in. Usually, I drive around the place!

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

I just drive with my headlights on, no foglights since every dickkwad and his puppy cries about them, the headlights are brigher and dazzle your eyes more because of the way they are positioned, but I dont care since its apparently illegal..

If any of you whingers actually had a BA / BF fitted with foglights a quick look in the hand book (they are only 55 wats same as headlights) and a quick look at how they are positioned up against a wall shows how they compared to headlights.

Oh and why drive with lights on during the day? Because its proven to make you more safer on the roads, which COULD save your life... This is why big fleets are all fitted with daytime running lights, eg. Telstra.

Chill out, no point calling people "dikkwads" and "whingers" Just because their opinions differ to yours.. Personally i dont see the need for them on as well as headlights at night, and yes, i have driven an XR fitted with them.