2 prime movers confiscated under the hoon laws ( vic)

[Green X]

I am all for speed restrictions WHEN there is work going on and it is in a dangerous zone but when ya behind 5 ton concrete barricades Ect, 40km/h is just overdoing it when the regular limit is 80-100km/h.

ya get hit by a car at 100 or 40 in that type of environment it don't matter you going to be dead.

we got road work taking place on my way to work it's down to 40km for a bit, the work is taking place between 20-50 meters off the road and by F*&*ing 30Ton+ CAT earthmoving equipment yep my 1.7T Falcon is a real danger to that stuff at 70km/h, they don't start to 6-7am so explain to me why i should have to do 40km/h at 5am when im on my way to work.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I reckon its ridiculous, a truck driver has A LOT more to loose by being disqualified for 12 months than a driver of a normal car, you see they can take a taxi to work, or bus, or get somebody to drop them off, were as a truck driver relys on that to put food on the table and a roof over his familys heads, If these truckies lose their jobs, family, house etc from this there should be hell to pay!! this has gone to f$R%*ing far, in NO WAY AT ALL EVER!! is this reasonable punishment for speeding!

F*#&$5(ING GOVERNMENTS!!!!

This is a problem when politicians give powers to police etc and bypass the justice system.

[alecrain]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I reckon its ridiculous, a truck driver has A LOT more to loose by being disqualified for 12 months than a driver of a normal car, you see they can take a taxi to work, or bus, or get somebody to drop them off, were as a truck driver relys on that to put food on the table and a roof over his familys heads, If these truckies lose their jobs, family, house etc from this there should be hell to pay!! this has gone to f$R%*ing far, in NO WAY AT ALL EVER!! is this reasonable punishment for speeding!

F*#&$5(ING GOVERNMENTS!!!!

"Did the crime do the time"
It's been said here before, you're the one who has the brake pedal under the foot, if you're over the limit just press on it (no one else will), if you choose to drive faster then be aware that (if you're caught) you'll face the consequences- for truckies they are much worse then for a private car driver (but that didn't slow them down)...

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by kooky

I am rather offended by your post

Then maybe you, just like many others on this site, should not quote people out of context and read the entire post and not just the bit that p!$$#$ you off.

Did you not read the bit where I said I have no issues if there is work being carried out at the time of the speed limit changes, but no I still don't see the point of a 40km/h limit if the work is so far off the road or they are all in heavy machinery.

Driving along today, as I do most days and for most of it unlike most of you, I started thinking about "SAFE speed limits" how safe is it on a two lane carriage highway with one lane each way and a heavy painted line seperating traffic. Or better yet how safe is it when the impact would happen at approximately 200km/h??

[kooky]

I never quoted you out of context, I quoted your whole post, with particular reference to a section that I responded to in context, and yes I did read it a few times just to be sure. I mearly corrected you based on your point of veiw. This was the point of my post, maybe you need to re-read mine.

Hard not to be emotional when it's there in front of you, I have talked about this with my mate on many occasions.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by alecrain

"Did the crime do the time"
It's been said here before, you're the one who has the brake pedal under the foot, if you're over the limit just press on it (no one else will), if you choose to drive faster then be aware that (if you're caught) you'll face the consequences- for truckies they are much worse then for a private car driver (but that didn't slow them down)...

BUT wasn't their 'crime' speeding?? Where does hooning fit in that?

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

I reckon its ridiculous, a truck driver has A LOT more to loose by being disqualified for 12 months than a driver of a normal car, you see they can take a taxi to work, or bus, or get somebody to drop them off, were as a truck driver relys on that to put food on the table and a roof over his familys heads, If these truckies lose their jobs, family, house etc from this there should be hell to pay!! this has gone to f$R%*ing far, in NO WAY AT ALL EVER!! is this reasonable punishment for speeding!

F*#&$5(ING GOVERNMENTS!!!!

Since driving is their livelihood they sould be well aware of the consequences of losing their licence and adjust their behaviour accordingly. I'm a bus driver, so I know I do.

If they now lose their jobs and end up in trouble financially then they have no one to blame but themselves.

[XRQTR]

One more time for you Kooky, this time I will not mix it up around other words and I will also make it bold and a different color so it stands out a little more.


And I quote:

I have no issues if there is work being carried out at the time of the speed limit changes, but no I still don't see the point of a 40km/h limit if the work is so far off the road or they are all in heavy machinery.


I can't do anything about your mates dad, a mate of mine lost his cousin who was helping someone that had broken down by the side of the road when he was crushed between the 2 cars, why can't we have lower speed limits around break downs as well?? Maybe we need lights just like those at fire stations out the front of everyones house as well so that when they come out of the driveway they can stop traffic to let themselves out safely.

Besides as you said the vehicle that killed your mates dad was unroadworthy so shouldn't have been on the road in the first place.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by Feathers

Since driving is their livelihood they sould be well aware of the consequences of losing their licence and adjust their behaviour accordingly. I'm a bus driver, so I know I do.

If they now lose their jobs and end up in trouble financially then they have no one to blame but themselves.

It wasn't like they were doing 160 in a 110 zone, they were doing 80-90kph, it's normally 100 along that road yeah? no work taking place, and probably hardly anyone on the road at that time of night, therefor it's safe to do that speed. But still the punishment doesn't fit the crime, it's like giving someone 10 years in gaol for tooting their horn at you, thats how ridiculous it is

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Feathers

Since driving is their livelihood they sould be well aware of the consequences of losing their licence and adjust their behaviour accordingly. I'm a bus driver, so I know I do.

If they now lose their jobs and end up in trouble financially then they have no one to blame but themselves.

That's pretty easy for you to say, but tell me this, does the company you work for penalise you for getting to your destination late?? not likely but a contractor can lose his contract if the pick up/drop is not made by a certain time or within a certain time frame. So this is an even bigger part of any decision to do with there livelyhoods, a fine is a couple of hundred dollars a lost contract is worth potentially a thousand times more, do the maths.

It's easy for most of you to decide that truck drivers are bastards that are driving outside the law, what you don't know/realise is that that's what they sometimes have to do in order to keep the contracts they have in place.

Recently companies like "Fill My Truck" have done more to screw drivers than anyone else, they actually let the customer decide what they want to pay. The customer often has no idea of the running costs associated with these vehicles so puts a price that even as a backload is often cut to the bone and would really only pay your fuel one way.

Poeple seem to have it in there heads that we are justifying what these guys did, I'm not I'm arguing that speed limits need to be a little more realistic with actual safety risk assesments being done, not just "ye make it 40". As well as this speed limits do not need to be kept at this on most work sights after work has finished for the day, a perfect example is the new bridge near Fitzgerald Rd in Sunshine along the Ring Rd. It's down to 60 because of works which are only 1 or 2 days a week on this section, the thing that is most irritating is that they use an electronic road works sign that could very easily be changed back to 80 after the work day has finished.

What I'm saying is that the system needs to be looked at and overhauled, there was a time when speed limits were raised after work had ended for the day no reason this can't be done these days.

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

It wasn't like they were doing 160 in a 110 zone, they were doing 80-90kph, it's normally 100 along that road yeah? no work taking place, and probably hardly anyone on the road at that time of night, therefor it's safe to do that speed. But still the punishment doesn't fit the crime, it's like giving someone 10 years in gaol for tooting their horn at you, thats how ridiculous it is

If the sign is still up, then thats the speed. Work or no work. I agree it's stupid if it's the middle of the night, but thats the way it is.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

That's pretty easy for you to say, but tell me this, does the company you work for penalise you for getting to your destination late?? not likely but a contractor can lose his contract if the pick up/drop is not made by a certain time or within a certain time frame. So this is an even bigger part of any decision to do with there livelyhoods, a fine is a couple of hundred dollars a lost contract is worth potentially a thousand times more, do the maths.

It's easy for most of you to decide that truck drivers are bastards that are driving outside the law, what you don't know/realise is that that's what they sometimes have to do in order to keep the contracts they have in place.

Recently companies like "Fill My Truck" have done more to screw drivers than anyone else, they actually let the customer decide what they want to pay. The customer often has no idea of the running costs associated with these vehicles so puts a price that even as a backload is often cut to the bone and would really only pay your fuel one way.

Poeple seem to have it in there heads that we are justifying what these guys did, I'm not I'm arguing that speed limits need to be a little more realistic with actual safety risk assesments being done, not just "ye make it 40". As well as this speed limits do not need to be kept at this on most work sights after work has finished for the day, a perfect example is the new bridge near Fitzgerald Rd in Sunshine along the Ring Rd. It's down to 60 because of works which are only 1 or 2 days a week on this section, the thing that is most irritating is that they use an electronic road works sign that could very easily be changed back to 80 after the work day has finished.

What I'm saying is that the system needs to be looked at and overhauled, there was a time when speed limits were raised after work had ended for the day no reason this can't be done these days.

Agree 100%.

[Matty4]

^^^ +1.
I heard of a bloke driving on the Eastern Freeway here in Melb late one night and got pulled over by the cops for speeding in a roadwork zone. He was doing 100 in what he thought was a 100 zone. He argued that all roadworkers were at home, no road conditions had changed. He challenged it because he found out that the limit had been lifted back up to 100 but the roadwork crew forgot to remove one 40 sign.

Cops took that to be the limit, even though he had evidence stating the opposite. Finally after many thousands spent in legal fees got his fine and suspension dropped to 1 month.

They'll screw you any way they can.....

[mcnews]

Some people in this thread do not have an independent thought process in their brain and swallow what crap is dished up to them by the authorities. They would fit in well in a communist country and would have been one of the oh well that's the law types when Hitler went around gassing everyone.

[kooky]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

One more time for you Kooky, this time I will not mix it up around other words and I will also make it bold and a different color so it stands out a little more.


And I quote:

I have no issues if there is work being carried out at the time of the speed limit changes, but no I still don't see the point of a 40km/h limit if the work is so far off the road or they are all in heavy machinery.


I can't do anything about your mates dad, a mate of mine lost his cousin who was helping someone that had broken down by the side of the road when he was crushed between the 2 cars, why can't we have lower speed limits around break downs as well?? Maybe we need lights just like those at fire stations out the front of everyones house as well so that when they come out of the driveway they can stop traffic to let themselves out safely.

Besides as you said the vehicle that killed your mates dad was unroadworthy so shouldn't have been on the road in the first place.

We will have to agree to disagree, perhaps I needed to word my reply better I was reacting to the manner in which the new laws were passed. The information about my mates dad was the back ground to my reasons, hell I even highlighted the section of your post........

Hang on I should have highlighted it in bold red.

[Sourbastard]

I'm unusually not going to wade into this much. I will just say this in response to those who feel this was injust.

The people no longer control the government or its own justice system. We have lost this right due to apathy. We will continue to lose our other rights and what partial controls we have left for as long as we are apathetic, and for as long as we allow media journalists to tell our government what they should be acting on based on hype and spin, instead of we the people, based on what is fair and just.

Country closed due to lack of interest.

[st33l3y]

I'd like to see the Government try to crush the prime movers under the anti-hoon laws...

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by kooky

We will have to agree to disagree, perhaps I needed to word my reply better I was reacting to the manner in which the new laws were passed. The information about my mates dad was the back ground to my reasons, hell I even highlighted the section of your post........

Hang on I should have highlighted it in bold red.

Mate you know what as cruel as this may now come across not my problem really, people die in workplace accidents everyday, to your friend and his family my condolences.

Why is it that as sourbastard kind of noted that people and the government jump up only/mostly on what the news make more sensational??

Why is it that when a crane falls and kills a few construction workers there isn't this much outrage, are they lesser people than road workers, are they scum?? There are more construction related deaths than most other occupational deaths, yet this seems to be no where on most peoples agendas, I guess it doesn't matter as long as your house gets built.

I worked in the building industry, qualified carpenter, did a builder go and get me a scaffold to make my job safer?? No that was "my responsibilty" hence why I got out.

I now own and operate a tow truck business, I quite often pick up cars off the highways and freeways, no one slows down for me, I have actually put out warning triangles people swerved to miss them then swerved back in towards me. That kind of makes me a road worker in a sense, why don't I see you follow me whenever I have to pick up a car off the road and stand with your "SLOW" sign to make sure I'm safe??

There are so many things on our roads and in our lives that would be seen as dangerous or "unsafe" maybe we should all just get a computer and finally build that teleporter then we won't need transport anymore.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by st33l3y

I'd like to see the Government try to crush the prime movers under the anti-hoon laws...

I'd like to see the backlash that this would cause amongst owner drivers in particular.

If the government were to start crushing trucks then that would be the same as bulldozing a factory because the emissions were too high or they didn't pay there taxes. It would be an absolute legal mine field for the government and one I doubt they would really want to get into, imagine having your quarter million dollar truck crushed and not getting any kind of compensation towrds your companies outgoings.

This would send companies to the wall all because a driver was trying to make a delivery on time, a speeding truck doesn't do this for fun but because he has bills to pay and this is the only way he can do it.

If the government go their then they will have to expose every single company that either directly or indirectly forces there drivers to meet unrealistic deadlines. This was an issue some years ago and was supposed to be stamped out but because the governments are too $#!t scared to go against the likes of Coles and Linfox and even Visy all at the one time which is what they'd have to do they just go after the soft easy target instead.

Let's just see once fuel hits the $2 mark and truck drivers start rolling strikes, let's see what everyone here will be complaining about then...... "why is there no stuff in the shops?" or better still "why is there no fuel at the servo?" hahaha

Until both owner driver and even company drivers start getting paid a fairer price for what they do they will keep speeding because it's the only way they can keep there jobs and pay there bills, get used to it.

Most people look at the result and forget what causes it to begin with.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Feathers

I'm a bus driver, so I know I do.

Sorry ye forgot about this bit.

So you're a bus driver in Sydney right, correct me here if I'm wrong, don't they have special and seperate lanes for buses in Sydney??? Don't these lanes have to be cleared and not used by regular traffic especially at peak times??

When Prey tell was the last time you would have been affected by the traffic jams caused by lowered speed limits, sure you do the limit and most don't mind doing it as long as the traffic jams that go with it weren't a part of it.

[sunmaid135]

XRQTR I thought as a professional road user you would be well aware of the unacceptable habits of a lot of non-profesional road users. How many times have you been nearly clipped while doing your job. Tjhis is unacceptable but part of the job. That is why you have yellow flashing lights to warn other motorists of your activities. now these road works with the five ton barriers that are placed right up on the edge of the lane are there to both protect the road workers but to warn of their activities. Someone ahs designed the road sped restriction due to the change in the road conditions. Someone has decided that a two lane road with traffic travelling on it with minimal escape options (Due to loss of emergency lanes)needs to have a reduced yes even down to 40 kph 24/7

I note that an earlier post indicated that it was strange that these truckies are caught up in 'HOON' legislation. To put a bit of light on it The HOON legislation initially had offences involving generally hoon type activities ie burn outs, drifting etc. Since the Kerang train collision these have now added deliberatly crossing a crossing with red lights flashing This is not generally hoon type activity. at the same time they added the exceeding speed limit by 45 kph or more in the hoon legislation. So the media are now able to have some headline "Trucks seized under HOON Laws' or similar. These guys have been caught up in a piece of legislation designed for totally irresponsible drivers. these guys either didn't care or lacked the concentration required to maintain the correct speed

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Sorry ye forgot about this bit.

So you're a bus driver in Sydney right, correct me here if I'm wrong, don't they have special and seperate lanes for buses in Sydney??? Don't these lanes have to be cleared and not used by regular traffic especially at peak times??

When Prey tell was the last time you would have been affected by the traffic jams caused by lowered speed limits, sure you do the limit and most don't mind doing it as long as the traffic jams that go with it weren't a part of it.

They have some, not everywhere though, and not on routes that I use (I am not a State Transit driver).
Every morning and afternoon I go through the city out to the industrial area in Botany, so I have to put up with the traffic, roadworks, and stop start traffic.
On this run there is pressure from the customers to get to their connecting transport on time, but I refuse to drive like a maniac to do it. It's not worth the stress.
They'd have a whinge too if I was consantly slamming on the brakes and throwing them out of their seats.

[prydey]

i wonder how many cars they let go by before they pulled the truck over.

'car driver speeds through roadworks' would have no where near the impact as a headline as opposed to once again picking on the truckies.

thanks to the media we all know its fact that all truckies are druggies, tailgate, force cars off roads, etc etc and now they are hoons as well. :

obviously a slow news day.

there is a national highway shutdown building momentum at the moment, meant to be taking effect early july, where a large number of truckies will just stay at home for a while.

I for one hope this happens to open a few peoples eyes as to how important trucks are in the community.

i'm not saying its fine for them to speed or run riot and do their own thing but its frustrating that they are such an easy target for the media. do you really think that they were the only 2 vehicles speeding through that patch of roadworks. seriously....

[fiesta8u]

Originally Posted by Abacus

Lose their licences, lose their livelihoods, lose their houses, possibly lose their families. "TOUGH LUCK" is a little bit flippant, don't you think?

But yeah, I agree that road works limits should be enforced. It's a very dangerous business. A car or truck going off the road at 80km/h into a bunch of road workers could have horrific consequences.

I would just like to know whether road works were actually in progress anywhere near where these guys got busted. One reason why road works limits aren't universally respected is because the road workers frequently don't take the signs down when they've finished work for the day.

well why didnt he think about that in the first place when he was about to speed ? i also say TOUGH LUCK.....

[kooky]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

Mate you know what as cruel as this may now come across not my problem really, people die in workplace accidents everyday, to your friend and his family my condolences.

Why is it that as sourbastard kind of noted that people and the government jump up only/mostly on what the news make more sensational??

Why is it that when a crane falls and kills a few construction workers there isn't this much outrage, are they lesser people than road workers, are they scum?? There are more construction related deaths than most other occupational deaths, yet this seems to be no where on most peoples agendas, I guess it doesn't matter as long as your house gets built.

I worked in the building industry, qualified carpenter, did a builder go and get me a scaffold to make my job safer?? No that was "my responsibilty" hence why I got out.

I now own and operate a tow truck business, I quite often pick up cars off the highways and freeways, no one slows down for me, I have actually put out warning triangles people swerved to miss them then swerved back in towards me. That kind of makes me a road worker in a sense, why don't I see you follow me whenever I have to pick up a car off the road and stand with your "SLOW" sign to make sure I'm safe??

There are so many things on our roads and in our lives that would be seen as dangerous or "unsafe" maybe we should all just get a computer and finally build that teleporter then we won't need transport anymore.

And I agree with all that you have said, I work in the biulding industry myself and know of many deaths that go unnoticed.

Not a cruel statement at all as I understand where you are coming from.

Why cant we all just be friends!!!! :

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by fiesta8u

well why didnt he think about that in the first place when he was about to speed ? i also say TOUGH LUCK.....

Let me guess, you get terrorised alot don't you??

I'll even hazard a guess and bet that you are one of these morons that tries to zip in and out of lanes coz your "only small" as most small car drivers tend to do without ever thinking of the consequences this may lead to. This might have something to do with why truckies seem to chase you down alot.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Feathers

They have some, not everywhere though, and not on routes that I use

Fair enough then, but buses are still somewhat different to trucks.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by sunmaid135

XRQTR I thought as a professional road user you would be well aware of the unacceptable habits of a lot of non-profesional road ]users.

Professional hahahahaha ....oh um you mean me.......umm ye well you know I am.............. professional that is..........extremely, yep.........what were we talking about again???

Originally Posted by sunmaid135

I note that an earlier post indicated that it was strange that these truckies are caught up in 'HOON' legislation. To put a bit of light on it The HOON legislation initially had offences involving generally hoon type activities ie burn outs, drifting etc. Since the Kerang train collision these have now added deliberatly crossing a crossing with red lights flashing This is not generally hoon type activity. at the same time they added the exceeding speed limit by 45 kph or more in the hoon legislation. So the media are now able to have some headline "Trucks seized under HOON Laws' or similar. These guys have been caught up in a piece of legislation designed for totally irresponsible drivers. these guys either didn't care or lacked the concentration required to maintain the correct speed

I indicated this because it would be a legal mine field as I said, trucks are our business and also our base and means of operation, in essence the truck is the business. They would have no legal grounds on which to cease the operation of any business that operated through a truck, they could impose a hefty fine and loss of licence but to crush the vehicle would be wrong on so many levels.

As for the Kerang incident I think it was debated at the time as to whether or not the signals were actually even working (wasn't that boom gates only and the gates were still up??) and the other train crossing accidents didn't even have signals. Does this then mean the government should have been done for hoon practice in not signalling a change in the work environment or perhaps illegal work practices which technically no signals could easily be translated as (faulty/lack of equipment).

Again and I repeat I am not justifying the speeds they did in this incident, simply questioning the processes involved and questioning how it falls under hoon behaviour as hoon behaviour is generally of a social nature where this is during work. As I said a big fine and loss of licence but hoon laws no.

[burnz]

i can't see why they won't make it like a school zone certan hour's (like throw the hesan bag over the sign)

maybe has somthing to do with revenue. nah can't be that.

[whiteELXR6]

I see it has a pretty simple scenario. Yes the truck drivers were speeding yes they should have been fined and lost demerits points. But in no way should they have lost there licences or and especially had there trucks inpounded.

Being a truck driver myself and my parents owning a small transport company (no i do not drive for them) I have seen the high's and lows of this business. And I can tell you now no licence for 3 months would mean our truck would be for sale without a doubt. With roughly 5K a month in insurance and repayments there just isn't enough spare cash to keep the business going.

P.S. and if one more small car driver comes up the left hand side of me and cuts in front of me on the monash so close that i can only see there bonnet and a little bit off there roof i might just not hit the brakes next time, crazy people.