Holden Sportswagon Release News - Page 2

Bossxr8 · 12-07-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Export potential.

Nope. GM/Bob Lutz have already rejected it as wagons don't sell in the US and I can't see wagons being popular in the Middle East either.

Bossxr8 · 12-07-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shounak

Are these SS wagons or the standard 6's?

Maybe Holden would do better if they adopted LPG to the extent Ford has. Straight gas seems to be the go at the moment.

8-900 total sales over the whole range from Omega to Calais V V8.

vztrt · 12-07-2008, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

Nowhere to put the spare.

Actually the reason was they couldn't get the tank underneath as the petrol tank isn't conventional.

The Stylist · 12-07-2008, 08:15 AM

I do like the new wagon, however there is stuff all visual differences between Berlina and Calais V, I thought the Calais V was going to have chrome around the windows?

phoenix99 · 12-07-2008, 07:02 PM

Externally the SS looks sweet but theres no way I would buy one with that bland interior, I just couldn't live with it.

FordFella · 12-07-2008, 08:46 PM

Hmm, I don't know about the wagon. It's like the ute - it's somewhere between "phat" and fat. Just looks obese from some angles. I'm predicting all it will do is cannibalise Commodore and Captiva sales - AFAIK Holden doesn't exactly get many conquest sales.
As for export potential, it seems the G8 in the US is doing nothing - the only way it was going to make money with the high AUS$ was with high numbers. Which it isn't.

SSbaby · 13-07-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Nope. GM/Bob Lutz have already rejected it as wagons don't sell in the US and I can't see wagons being popular in the Middle East either.

Because you don't 'see', Holden are silly?

:

OK.

Bossxr8 · 13-07-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Because you don't 'see', Holden are silly?

:

OK.

Can you SEE oil rich arabs cruising around is lame station wagons.

:

4Vman · 13-07-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davids_gxl

Ive seen the wagon.could you fit a pram in the back,just.

I wouldnt even call it a wagon, it would be more aptly described as a Commodore Hatch...
Hard to see how it will carry much let alone provide a 7 seat option like all its competitors...

AlbertM · 13-07-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Because you don't 'see', Holden are silly?

:

OK.

Seriously, yes Holden are silly.

The only reason there is a VE wagon was that Holden green lit the project in good faith there would be an export program. The export deal fell through.

Stefan · 13-07-2008, 02:12 PM

I like it, I hate that long wheel base look and I don't like the raised 4x4 look either. Is this car competing against falcon wagons and terry? I thought it was aimed more at outback and liberty wagons and the euro touring cars.

I'm probably in a minority but that size car would suite me....

SSbaby · 13-07-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertM

Seriously, yes Holden are silly.

The only reason there is a VE wagon was that Holden green lit the project in good faith there would be an export program. The export deal fell through.

So why did Holden go through with the release? Maybe it's because they have the sedan, ute, and WM... it doesn't cost them the earth to develop the wagon ($100m)... albeit reincarnated as a sportswagon.

If you look at the (mainly fleet) VZ wagon numbers (900/month) then the business case is there to continue with VE wagon.

AS Holden have never had a wagon exported outside of Australasia in large numbers, I don't see any validity in your statement, yet the wagon was always viable. Ford is still building the wagon with fewer sales. Maybe they are silly too?

I agree, though, if the VE wagon doesn't work for Holden, then it it's lost. Territory and Kluger are essentially based on their sedan/wagon donor vehicles so Holden would have to have a similar vehicle at the ready... but given the Captiva is doing a solid job for them, I don't think there'd be any money left to turn the sportswagon into an SUV. But I wouldn't know.

SSbaby · 13-07-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Can you SEE oil rich arabs cruising around is lame station wagons.

:

No I see them cruising around in Falcon wagons... in Broadmeadows.

:

AlbertM · 13-07-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

So why did Holden go through with the release? Maybe it's because they have the sedan, ute, and WM... it doesn't cost them the earth to develop the wagon ($100m)... albeit reincarnated as a sportswagon.

I guess the project was to far along to stop it. GM canned any exports to the US atlest 4 months into it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/26/t...ve-sportwagon/

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/17/s...for-us-market/

Quote:

If you look at the (mainly fleet) VZ wagon numbers (900/month) then the business case is there to continue with VE wagon.

AS Holden have never had a wagon exported outside of Australasia in large numbers, I don't see any validity in your statement, yet the wagon was always viable. Ford is still building the wagon with fewer sales. Maybe they are silly too?

It will loose the fleet sales that made the wagon viable. If they sell any where near 800 a month I'll be very surprised.

And Ford haven't built an impractical wagon.

**Fordman1** · 13-07-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Ford is still building the wagon with fewer sales. Maybe they are silly too?

Are you serious ??

The BFIII wagon tooling and development was payed for years ago. The material and labor costs are all they have to cover for the 30 odd they build per day.

Holden have had to lay out millions for tooling and deveopment for the 40 odd they will be doing per day.

Holden are silly, Ford aren't if you consider the facts above. :hihi:

4Vman · 13-07-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertM

I guess the project was to far along to stop it. GM canned any exports to the US atlest 4 months into it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/26/t...ve-sportwagon/

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/17/s...for-us-market/

It will loose the fleet sales that made the wagon viable. If they sell any where near 800 a month I'll be very surprised.

And Ford haven't built an impractical wagon.

If Holden sell 800 a month of these they'll sell 800 a month less of something else...

uranium_death · 13-07-2008, 09:16 PM

The Holden wagon can really only appeal to families, or Holden-enthusiasts, as I cannot see tradesmen (who use wagons as their vehicle) opting for a car whose engine is inferior, whose transmission is grossly inferior, and whose boot space is relatively miniscule.

As stated, the Falcon wagon may not be the prettiest vehicle around, but for getting a job done with any frills, it's a good buy.

SSbaby · 13-07-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertM

I guess the project was to far along to stop it. GM canned any exports to the US atlest 4 months into it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/26/t...ve-sportwagon/

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/17/s...for-us-market/

It will loose the fleet sales that made the wagon viable. If they sell any where near 800 a month I'll be very surprised.

And Ford haven't built an impractical wagon.

Firstly, no project is too far along to be canned. That's like saying, we're losing money on this project... but we've worked so hard that it's not ethical to stop it! When it comes to business, it's not about ethics, it's dollars and cents.

Secondly, that Falcon wagon with cart springs may be a serious workhorse, much like the Falcone ute... but hey, that hasn't hindered Holden ute's sales success. It's a market about image and style as much as anything trade oriented. Ditto the wagon... or so Holden believes. Time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

re you serious ??

The BFIII wagon tooling and development was payed for years ago. The material and labor costs are all they have to cover for the 30 odd they build per day.

Holden have had to lay out millions for tooling and deveopment for the 40 odd they will be doing per day.

Holden are silly, Ford aren't if you consider the facts above.

Really? Some would say it's a bold move by Ford considering wagon sales are trickling... and most buyers are opting for the Territory anyway. Given they are sold to fleets, then there is absolutely no money to be made on them. Holden are targeting the private buyer with the wagon, in a similar vein to Audi.

If Holden don't build a wagon, what else will be available in the market for prospective wagon buyers? Mazda6 or Falcon wagon? Easy choice... and please don't give me the different market demographics excuse...

AlbertM · 13-07-2008, 11:29 PM

The station wagon market is already small, mostly proped up by fleet sales. Holden have ignored the fleet segment and taken aim at the private buyer. How can that be smart when the wagon market is small because the private buyer has abandoned them.

I would have thought Holden learn't something with the failure of Adventra and the success of Territory.

I wonder how are the Mazda6 wagons going?

vztrt · 14-07-2008, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Really? Some would say it's a bold move by Ford considering wagon sales are trickling... and most buyers are opting for the Territory anyway. Given they are sold to fleets, then there is absolutely no money to be made on them. Holden are targeting the private buyer with the wagon, in a similar vein to Audi.

If Holden don't build a wagon, what else will be available in the market for prospective wagon buyers? Mazda6 or Falcon wagon? Easy choice... and please don't give me the different market demographics excuse...

Actually the Falcon Wagon was canned unless they could prove that it would be viable at the end of 06. Luckily enough the found the market that kept it going.

SSbaby · 14-07-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertM

The station wagon market is already small, mostly proped up by fleet sales. Holden have ignored the fleet segment and taken aim at the private buyer. How can that be smart when the wagon market is small because the private buyer has abandoned them.

I would have thought Holden learn't something with the failure of Adventra and the success of Territory.

I wonder how are the Mazda6 wagons going?

Which surprises me all the more why Ford have bothered really.

Well put it this way then...

However small the wagon market is, not everbody has abandoned it.

If given the choice of a Mazda6, Falcon, VE or Subaru wagon, I'd choose the VE over the rest.

Call me dumb if you will.

GlennBA · 14-07-2008, 01:27 PM

They're beautiful. I saw one at the motorshow, the roofline reminded me of my dads 07 audi a6 avant.

outback_ute · 14-07-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Which in itself is a crock of .. They could fit it to the cargo area like the Wagons...

All they need is a 4 speed TX 5 seat gas option, imagine the fleet sales... But no.. its all too hard.

I don't think Ford is chasing the fleet market (and associated image/resale problems) with the Territory

**Fordman1** · 14-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Which surprises me all the more why Ford have bothered really.

Ford bothered because they have guaranteed sales for a 'cash cow' ,that has payed for it's development many times over, to the likes of Telstra and other large fleets.

I don't know why Holden bothered, they won't get their development money back any time soon !!

SSbaby · 14-07-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Ford bothered because they have guaranteed sales for a 'cash cow' ,that has payed for it's development many times over, to the likes of Telstra and other large fleets.

I don't know why Holden bothered, they won't get their development money back any time soon !!

So Holden should have followed Ford's lead and just continued selling the VZ models?

That's a strange policy. What you're basically saying is that Holden should allow the wagon to die (by not developing it)... as Ford is doing.

Smoke Pursuit · 14-07-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

I don't think Ford is chasing the fleet market (and associated image/resale problems) with the Territory

If thats the case then why do they offer national fleet discounting to governments and fleets.

I think your wrong.. The amount of fleet buyers already buying Territories is quiet big.. Having EGAS would only sell more cars, which will in fact help bottom line.

Resale is already dead.

4Vman · 14-07-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

So Holden should have followed Ford's lead and just continued selling the VZ models?

That's a strange policy. What you're basically saying is that Holden should allow the wagon to die (by not developing it)... as Ford is doing.

You can't seriously compare the VE wagon with the VZ or BF wagon? the VE is a token effort, it has no legitimate "wagon" capacity...
No fleet will look at the VE as a serious option if its used to the BF/VZ carrying capacity and flexibility... its a "hatch"..
If Holden was serious about providing a legitimate workhorse wagon the VZ would have been a cheaper safer bet to stay with, just like Ford are doing with the BF..
The only reason i can see for the VE hatch is to try to appeal to the SUV customers....

Smoke Pursuit · 14-07-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You can't seriously compare the VE wagon with the VZ or BF wagon? the VE is a token effort, it has no legitimate "wagon" capacity...
No fleet will look at the VE as a serious option if its used to the BF/VZ carrying capacity and flexibility...
If Holden was serious about providing a legitimate workhorse wagon the VZ would have been a cheaper safer bet to stay with, just like Ford are doing with the BF..

Not unless holden gutz the crap out of it, which wont happen.. Fleets are buying BFIII XTs for 10 kay cheaper then holden will be offering Omega wagons... Its not rocket science.

SSbaby · 14-07-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You can't seriously compare the VE wagon with the VZ or BF wagon? the VE is a token effort, it has no legitimate "wagon" capacity...
No fleet will look at the VE as a serious option if its used to the BF/VZ carrying capacity and flexibility... its a "hatch"..
If Holden was serious about providing a legitimate workhorse wagon the VZ would have been a cheaper safer bet to stay with, just like Ford are doing with the BF..
The only reason i can see for the VE hatch is to try to appeal to the SUV customers....

Try telling Mazda and Subaru... though I don't think they'd care for your biased views.

outback_ute · 14-07-2008, 06:02 PM

I only said they weren't chasing it (by building a rep's special like the BF MkIII or FG XT), not that they were refusing to sell to fleets! More realistically, the Territory is probably too close to renewal to introduce a new model requiring so much development