Ford CEO - Falcon will stay! FWD or RWD? - Page 2

Rodp · 05-10-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

Just watched a review by Mr Shrick from DMOTOR where he compared an Audi S3 and Subaru WRX STi. Basically said the AWD system in the Audi left a lot to be desired and was boring to drive - it uses a Haldex clutch type system where it's FWD, then engages AWD when the car detects wheel slip. I'm not a fan of pseudo AWD systems - they're try hard and not the real thing.

Tryhard? It's not a pseudo AWD system, it's programmed to react that way. Cars that sport the Haldex system aren't track cars, and for the majority of your commuting in that sort of vehicle, you wouldn't even know it was running off FWD.

If you want permanent AWD or a split to whatever you want, plug in a Haldex controller and dial in your preferred settings. My car sports a Haldex AWD and it's staggering the amount of grip I get in the wet.

tex · 05-10-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZA-289

Ever pulled a boat out of the water with a Falcon? Wheel spin anyone? A V6 camry would kill the falcon in this case.

.

Mate, I have been towing BIG boats for 20 years, behind Falcons utes, flat trays, and for the last 5 years a F150.

I suggest that YOU have never towed a 2.2t boat with a Camry - because the bloody poxy damn front wheel drive aint worth squat at a ramp. Or a wet road for that matter when it's hooked up to a proper trailer. Nor would it be safe to tow a decent trailer with a front drive poxo car.I don't mean a jet ski, I mean a 18 - 21ft boat @ around 2 t road weight.

The more weight on the draw bar of a poxy front driven car - the less traction it's got. Fact.

I suggest your comment speaks more from inexperience than reallity.

I WILL buy Commordores (and happily) should Ford be foolish to change the platform of the Aus large cars to front drive.

Ha ha ha, my near 300 rwkw GT would be just wonderful in front wheel drive.

Ford America - keep your stinkin hands out of our Falcon platform you idiots.

woodsy109 · 05-10-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

Mate, I have been towing BIG boats for 20 years, behind Falcons utes, flat trays, and for the last 5 years a F150.

I suggest that YOU have never towed a 2.2t boat with a Camry - because the bloody poxy damn front wheel drive aint worth squat at a ramp. Or a wet road for that matter when it's hooked up to a proper trailer. Nor would it be safe to tow a decent trailer with a front drive poxo car.I don't mean a jet ski, I mean a 18 - 21ft boat @ around 2 t road weight.

The more weight on the draw bar of a poxy front driven car - the less traction it's got. Fact.

I suggest your comment speaks more from inexperience than reallity.

I WILL buy Commordores (and happily) should Ford be foolish to change the platform of the Aus large cars to front drive.

Ha ha ha, my near 300 rwkw GT would be just wonderful in front wheel drive.

Ford America - keep your stinkin hands out of our Falcon platform you idiots.

Was thinking the same thing!

I wouldn't like to be in a FWD car on a boatramp with any size boat really. You wouldn't go anywhere!

fmc351 · 05-10-2008, 05:05 PM

Like it or not, global platform = the world market will decide it.

Sad if it is FWD, but in traffic they all drive the same.

loltastic · 05-10-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Tryhard? It's not a pseudo AWD system, it's programmed to react that way. Cars that sport the Haldex system aren't track cars, and for the majority of your commuting in that sort of vehicle, you wouldn't even know it was running off FWD.

If you want permanent AWD or a split to whatever you want, plug in a Haldex controller and dial in your preferred settings. My car sports a Haldex AWD and it's staggering the amount of grip I get in the wet.

It's not a proper AWD system. Even Nissans ATTESA system is pushing it, but it's brilliant because it'll only drive the rear wheels once the front have been used to gain traction off the line. My car sports a proper AWD system, 50:50 split, and it is insane in the wet - worlds beyond your FWD/AWD setup. Can you imagine an AWD F6 using a Haldex system that is in FWD for most of the time? The torque steer would be abominable.

4Vman · 05-10-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZA-289

Ever pulled a boat out of the water with a Falcon? Wheel spin anyone? A V6 camry would kill the falcon in this case.

Please tell me you're not suggesting a camry would lug a bug up a boat ramp better than a Falcon....

tex · 05-10-2008, 05:36 PM

Hey 4v, see, we do agree on this one mate.....

Darkr · 05-10-2008, 05:36 PM

Won't the falcon lose half its towing capacity if it went to fwd?

4Vman · 05-10-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

Hey 4v, see, we do agree on this one mate.....

We probably argee on allot of things tex..

_2:

FordACE · 05-10-2008, 06:03 PM

yeah FWD is not good for towing at all. My gf's parents went from a Holden Vectra to a subaru liberty when they realised the Vectra was no good at towing their caravan. Up hills on dry days, it would actually lose traction and struggle to go anywhere. This is only a small caravan too, one of those Avans.

I wouldn't touch a falcon if it went FWD. AWD would be another story

Scott · 05-10-2008, 06:15 PM

FWD for the pizza boys and that's it.... front drive has no redeeming features at all.

4Vman · 05-10-2008, 06:18 PM

The ONLY reason any car companies manufacture FWD vehicles is purely to save cost.

pauljh74 · 05-10-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The Falcon in most guises IS NOT a performance thoroughbred. It is a family chariot / taxi. Primary role: To get 4-5 large people around in decent comfort with decent luggage space.... and at a decent price.

Just illustrating that FWD is not better to the poster preceding mine. It will certainly be less capable performance-wise if it goes FWD. If I wanted whitegoods on wheels that gets me from point A to B, I'd buy a Toyota or worse, a Hyundai

pauljh74 · 05-10-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

AWD would only be worthwhile if it was a performance oriented system like Evo, Nissan GT-R, Evo Lancer, Quattro etc Doubt it would be. Aren't the Crown Victoria and Mustang due for replacement in 2012?
If Mullaly is talking FWD, maybe they have been cancelled? If FWD is in the picture, the Falcon name will be tarnished and Holden's empire will grow.
On the plus side, the dimensions could be tightened with FWD and weight would drop significantly. and Ford is capable of tuning world beating draggers.
However, I do like the idea of a $25k 2.5 V6 Falcon manual. If it looks good (i.e. not a front-heavy POS) and drives well then I'd still get a Falcon.

What you describe right there sounds similar to a Mondeo - which we already have.

S3SR · 05-10-2008, 06:39 PM

that news is great

but why are they still thinking about FWD, FFS we DONT WANT IT so DONT waste money developing it and bring it here... you know money the stuff you dont have much off

unless its just to keep everyone thinking about the falcon so when they bring out a FPV GT 500kw AWD we will all ... in our pants and say they almost had us at FWD they were just distracting us from the new engines

ZA-289 · 05-10-2008, 07:11 PM

I have towed a 18ft Ski boat with a Camry and a Falcon, the camry did a better job on the boat ramp. The falcon was better on the road (obviously)

AWD Chaser · 05-10-2008, 07:15 PM

The really stupid thing is that if we wanted a FWD Falcon, we would buy the Mondeo.

Its only 72mm shorter then the falcon, pretty much looks the same on the outside, and is FWD...

HOWEVER - according to V-FACTS in the month of September this year, 3123 Falcon's were sold comapred to 441 Mondeo's.... So if it goes to according to what market wants (well at least Australian Markets)...

Come to think of it, the Falcon outsold all of Ford (OZ) FWD passenger cars (3123 V 2021) for the month of September.

Again, come to think of it, the Commodore also outsold all of Holdens FWD passenger cars (4462 V 2804)...

And as for towing, well even the TRD Aurion (241Kw, 400Nm) can only tow up to 1600kg (same with the rest of the Aurion lineup too).
And on comparison, the Subaru Liberty 3.0R Spec B (AWD, 180Kw, 297Nm) can only tow up to 1800kg.

Whereas the base model Falcon will tow 2300kg and the Commodore 2100kg.

This is only covering a few issues, not including handling, etc...

I really hope that the Falcon does not go FWD. Ford would pretty much be handing the game over the Holden otherwise.

asusdragon · 05-10-2008, 07:33 PM

just as i was going to say if we wanted a FWD falcon we would all be out buying a mondeo as was said there pretty much the same size and look the same expect for the engine.
Its pretty much the same for towing i would rather RWD anywhere, as the weight on the towbar will push the rear wheels to the ground on a FWD it will lift the Front wheels up given less traction and less steering. I will get my ute out and prove it to you too if you wish

and plus how do you go drifting in a FWD? and i like my RWD burnouts not FWD bunny hopping burnouts

Rodp · 05-10-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

It's not a proper AWD system. Even Nissans ATTESA system is pushing it, but it's brilliant because it'll only drive the rear wheels once the front have been used to gain traction off the line. My car sports a proper AWD system, 50:50 split, and it is insane in the wet - worlds beyond your FWD/AWD setup. Can you imagine an AWD F6 using a Haldex system that is in FWD for most of the time? The torque steer would be abominable.

You can lock the Haldex to 50/50 with a Haldex controller, it's software driven! It's just not done out of the factory. If an AWD Haldex setup was stuck in an F6, you can change how the wheels are being driven, it's not that big of a deal.

fmc351 · 05-10-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

HOWEVER - according to V-FACTS in the month of September this year, 3123 Falcon's were sold comapred to 441 Mondeo's.... So if it goes to according to what market wants (well at least Australian Markets)...

.

Except according to a thread here somewhere, the Mazda 3 outsold the Falcon in Aus which is a first.

Australia is a tiny market, like it or not, global platforms were never going to be good for our tastes. Ford want to increase market share and profitability, not simply keep die hard fans happy. If Ford could double sales, and lose every die hard Ford fan in the process, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

asusdragon · 05-10-2008, 07:44 PM

increase market share and keep us die hards happy..... sell the Falcon to the world, it a great cars, USA love it say with many other countries. but yeh i got no idea on this. but the falcon compared to crown vic or whatever that have in the USA, well i know where my money would go

Daymoe · 05-10-2008, 07:46 PM

The XR6T would be an ideal car to replace their Crown Victoria police cars, maybe have them as highway patrol.

4Vman · 05-10-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Except according to a thread here somewhere, the Mazda 3 outsold the Falcon in Aus which is a first.

Australia is a tiny market, like it or not, global platforms were never going to be good for our tastes. Ford want to increase market share and profitability, not simply keep die hard fans happy. If Ford could double sales, and lose every die hard Ford fan in the process, they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Millisecond....

jakkes · 05-10-2008, 08:08 PM

we tow a 18ft ski boat all the time will never go nere a fwd.
the more weight on the draw bar the more traction you have
we launch on big rocky, steep ramps(not much traction available).and on concrete
falcon is better for us. our territory is way better again LOL

4Vman · 05-10-2008, 08:19 PM

When i was younger we used to sit at the boat ramp and watch for enjoyment (cruel i know) .. its amazing how difficult some people can make launching or retrieving a boat be, in all my time involved with waterskiing i can honesty say Ive never seen anyone successfully tow or retrieve a large ski boat with a FWD car, some have tried, but its always been a big (tractionless) struggle, sometimes it got it out, sometimes it involved people sitting on the bonnet for extra weight, ive even seen boats left a few feet off the rear of the trailer to "lift" the rear of the car and place more load on the front wheels, lbut compared to a traditional RWD vehicle it was chalk and cheese.

fmc351 · 05-10-2008, 08:25 PM

The only way I can imagine a FWD being better on a boat ramp is if the ramp is covered in slimy algae, and the FWD wheels are still in the dry. Just walking on the algae can be hazardous, or hilarious, depending if its you or not.

Still the algae wouldnt last long under the wheels.

DEVL-XR · 05-10-2008, 08:38 PM

FWD Falcon, what a joke. Not even worth discussing in my opinion. If Falcon went FWD say goodbye to any future Falcon car sales and say goodbye to FPV. Falcon owners and fans would be the laughing stock, even more so than when the AU came out. God Ford come up with some stupid ideas, it drives me crazy.

GTP290 · 05-10-2008, 10:04 PM

FWD would be a disaster for FPV. I couldnt imagine driving down the Adelaide hills with a heavy engine over the front wheels in FWD guise, especillay if its the same weight the current GTs are... a FWD FALCON GT??? MAKE IT AWD!! ATLEAST FOR SAFETYS SAKE!!

geckoGT · 05-10-2008, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Except according to a thread here somewhere, the Mazda 3 outsold the Falcon in Aus which is a first.
.

When you consider these figures don't forget that Mazda have achieved this with most of their sales going to the average person and very few fleet sales. Commodore and Falcon sales are always bolstered by fleet sales, a fact that also kills resale values. Take fleet sale out of the equation and mazda would be absolutely killing all of them. The buying public have made their desires known, and it is not big RWD 6cyl vehicles, the smaller FWD 4 cyl with fuel consumption below 8L/100km is becoming more popular (and the average Joe does not give a fat rats about boats, in fact most boat ramp car parks seem to hold 4WD's).

Holden have accepted this and released a press statement that they will be concentrating development on aussie made small and medium cars as they expect these to be the big sellers in todays economic climate.

There will always be a market for the big car, the question is what percentage of the total market will it be?

vztrt · 05-10-2008, 10:57 PM

Pretty simple I like the Falcon, (not really interested with the rest of the models, Terri is good but not my time for one of them). In the past 3 years have bought two, with a 3rd coming in 18 months time, also the chances are I will have a company car as well.

V6 engine has taken my choice out of a getting a 6 Falcon, FWD will see my buy a Commodore....most likely I'll buy a secondhand Falcon and keep rebuilding. I wont drive a FWD car.

So please Ford, keep the car RWD, I love Falcons but it seems funny a V6 FWD is a Camry...oh sorry Aurion for all those people who get angry and think it isn't a rebadged Camry...and NOT a Falcon.