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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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i could see 8 close ratio`s being more usefull on the autobahns winding up to 160 kph cruising speed, but in snailsville Australia where our speed limits are majority 100/110 kph it seems fairly pointless and with our torquey engines even more pointless, might be good for the super tourer`s though.
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#32 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
I've heard a few motoring journos say the gap between 2nd and 3rd in the ZF 6 is a bit too high. |
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#33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
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Quote:
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2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock |
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#34 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
![]() ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,528
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Quote:
I've put a 3.45 behind my ZF (factory is a 2.73), around town economy has remain about the same, but highway economy got worse. overall performance has of course increased. But with an extra gear or two overdrive would be great. I can't say I've any complaints about the spacing of 2nd and 3rd. (that's probably due to the shorter diff).
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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
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#35 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
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#36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
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Quote:
I agree with the DSG comments. It is going to make a much bigger difference than just adding a couple of gears to a standard auto. |
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#37 | ||
Slow Sunday driver
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ohrid, Macedonia
Posts: 543
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Ill stick with my 5200 converter and c4 3 speed with manual valve body thanks.
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#38 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NSW
Posts: 864
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Quote:
although there are alot of gears to chase |
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#39 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Some say.......
Posts: 3,830
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Did anyone 35 years ago think 4 speeds were overrated?
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#40 | ||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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Had a 66 327 Chev Impala with a 2 speed auto, more than enough....
![]() Pretty soon we will have 15 forward and 10 reverse, maybe them truckies are onto something eh.... ![]()
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.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
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#41 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
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Even when I was pre-driving age, I thought three speed manuals and autos (not to mention 2 speed autos) were a pretty strange way to gear a car. Even in those days, I wondered why make an engine rev its guts out, for highway cruising, with only three gears? Four speed autos went some way to curing the problem, but still felt compromised.
I remember travelling long distance in a manual HQ Kingswood. It felt like it was about to explode at only 80kph. Horrible. The gearing in my BFII ute (4 speed auto) also feels highly compromised, in so far as its geared very highly for the freeway, yet each gear is spaced very widely apart. As a result, there's a lot of slippage which doesn't feel nice and equals inefficiency. Give me six speeds any day! |
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#42 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Geelong, VIC
Posts: 5,265
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Got me thinking about gears. How about a 2 speed diff gear! 3.23 and 4.11 !!! Awesomeness!
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#43 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 121
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That's what Mitsubish had on the original Colt in the 1980s. A 4 speed gearbox tied to a 2 speed diff.
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#44 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 770
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just remember they had 9sp boxes in road trains 18years ago and those trucks still hold their own against the current models with 21sp boxes fuel and performance wise, its not about how many gears it has, its how it all works together, personally those CVT boxes are dirt too may as well have a dirty old C4 coz at least you know its gunna work properly
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#45 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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The 8 speed ZF is way to expensive for Ford anyway. The current 6 speed is a pretty expensive thing now even being based on a design from early in the decade, this 8 speed being brand new will probably be twice as expensive.
When the technology becomes cheap enough in the next 5-6 years maybe Ford will look at it then, but its not going to happen anytime soon. The ZF 6 speed didn't become cost effective to use until what, maybe 5 years after it was first made? |
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#46 | ||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Pretty sure the 8 speed is cheaper, smaller and lighter. In having said that, it’s only cheaper based on volume which we supposedly qualified for due to the PAG relationship. That no longer applies.
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#47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 825
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CVT would be the smarter option you'd think over 8 gears
Any one know why it hasnt taken off? I think SAAB did it back in 08... |
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#48 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#49 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
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#50 | |||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Quote:
The ZF 6HP26 was lighter and cheaper then the 5 HP longitudinal that it replaced keeping in mind that the cost is representative of the high end market it was designed for. The ZF 8 HP drops the Lepelletier gear set to be lighter more efficient and cheaper again. As ZF is a component supplier to the general industry, each generation of product advancement has to be better, lighter and cheaper if ZF is to continue to be a successful supplier in the face of stiffer competition. Efficiency improvements of 5% or greater as well as increased torque limits are due to largely a reduction in open gear sets leading to considerably lower drag losses. In addition to the improved efficiency, this transmission concept features a higher total ratio spread from four planetary gear sets. Without the group buy approach from Ford of the PAG generation the cost for putting such a box in a Falcon should be prohibitive for the foreseeable future.
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#51 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
![]() ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,528
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Quote:
They still haven't got a CVT that can take more torque than a n/a 4 banger can produce.
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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
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#52 | ||||
Nutty Professor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 548
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Quote:
So no, we do not need 8 gears in a car. Just a good CVT.
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#53 | |||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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What I'd love to know is how it performs against say, the ZF 6 speed box ie, shift times and the two extra gears, how that translates to acceleration.
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If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
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#54 | |||
Non-Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,040
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Quote:
Audi have an optional CVT on certain models mated to a 3L v6. Nissan also had a CVT on the 3.5L v6 V35 Skyline
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2005 Renault Sport Megane 225 |
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#55 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,063
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Quote:
exactly.. 30 yaers ago.. 2-3 spd auto's were the biz... imagine back the the lmao's you get mentioning 5/6/7 speeds you can now get.. |
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#56 | |||
Nutty Professor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 548
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Actually the Nissan Murano has a CVT, and its a 3.5L V6 I think. Surely it cant be that hard for a car company to build one a little tougher for use on a performance car.
Come to think of it, I reckon the new Ford 4 pot would work really well with a CVT.
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#57 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,770
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What is CVT?
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#58 | ||||
Nutty Professor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 548
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Quote:
The downshot is that you can't taper a cog into a cone shape and keep the teeth the same size and distance apart for the length of the cone, so the only way to do it is to use belts and things that are prone to slipping under heavy load, hence the problems with using it for serious performance use at an affordable price. The argument that I and a couple of others are making is that an 8 speed gearbox is approaching an area that realistically should be CVT territory. If a transmission manufacturer put any sort of decent funds into further development of a CVT, it would be above and beyond what we have come to expect from a transmission.
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#59 | |||
Nutty Professor
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 548
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Also, I know you can get a CVT as an option on the Honda Jazz and base model Mitsubishi Lancer. It's not very well publicized, but my uncle has a Jazz with a CVT and he reckons the way it keeps the engine at peak power when accelerating and peak efficiency when cruising is the best thing since sliced bread. I have been in the car with him and I can testify that it is really quite incredible.
If anyone finds one that can take 600kw please PM me.
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#60 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,770
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Wow... Cvt sounds... Well wow.. If I was a gearbox manufacturer I think I'd be looking into advancing this cvt technology
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