Aurion Sales Struggling

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by ST

Really? Sure they have some go but they just seem to do the job. Have you driven one? Did it make you want to buy one or did it make you want to recommend it to your elders? It doesn't help that there are 2 much more appealing alternatives and it's still a Camry...

I can't see many people missing it when (should I say if?) it goes.

I have an AT-X company vehicle and it's an absolute gem.
While I wouldn't buy one for myself (I love my turbo too much), I would certainly have no hesitation in buying one for the missus or recommending it to friends and family. And would certainly buy one over a VE Commodore !

I wouldn't say it is at all boring. It' quick. And fun. And much more smooth and refined than many other cars on the market. Depends what you want out of a car, I suppose ?

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Drive one and see for yourself.

I have and they drive like all Toyota's do - like a whirlpool washing machine on wheels.

Under steer, torque steer, revvy engine, crap seats, dash is 100% plastic, lights up like a christmas tree at night so bright you get fatigue and rides like a truck.

[DK30RB]

Well, i own both a 2007 Aurion Zr6 (which has now been passed on to my wife) and an FG XR6T. While the FG is a great car, there are aspects to the Aurion that make it better.

Aurion has better, build quality, blue tooth that works, 8 way electric seats, lockable fuel flap, easier to read insrument cluster, illuminated steering wheel controls, dual zone climate control standard on sports model, drivers grab handle, auto locking with push button start - no key required, and standard front and rear parking sensors.

The FG XR6T compared to the equivalent zr6 Aurion model misses out on all of Aurion's standard features mentioned above and hence cheapens the car a little.

Don't get me wrong FG goes better and handles better, but the little things you get used to can lessen ownership satisfaction a little.

In 60,000 km's the Aurion has not even required a light globe. I did have an issue with a knock in the front suspension, which was caused by me having it lowered. Toyota still replaced the shocks under warrany however.

I've only done 5000km's in the Xr6t so can't speak for reliability yet, but my old BA was such a lemon that most people, including me are surprised i went back to Ford. (sold it after 18months and 45,000km)

IMO the Aurion is still a great looking car.

[mik]

glad you had a good run DK30RB with the toyo mate, 60000 k`s isnt a lot of k`s though, and i suspect the aurion will get driven differently to the xr6t , and i suspect thats the case in general, would it be fair to say there are more of the pensioner demographic driveing the aurion than the falcon, let us know how it goes after a decent mileage, you mentioned the knock in the front end , i did see a complaint about driveshaft knock , if i find it i`ll post the link, both nice looking limo`s you have there.

[Mr Hardware]

i notice that the people in this thread who knock the aurion haven't driven it or have only had one for a matter of days, where as the lovers have done big kays in them.

i was never going to expect much support for the aurion here (being that its not a ford, being that the 'toyotas are for grampas' point of view and being that it's fwd). personally, i can see its flaws yes. but that doesn't make me disregard it.

Lets face it guys, for the new breed of car buyers, the VE and FG are just too far away for people. They'd prefer something 'nice' (lol) like a mazda 3 or an x-trail or something utterly appliance-like. FG and VE are too manly or cool or something, i haven't figured it out yet. But they are dealing with the stigma of cars gone by, for some reason this new breed of buyer thinks an FG and XD could be one and the same for all they care. The aurion fixes this: it provides full-size car space with a punchy yet economical V6, yet is still an Australian-made car and for all intents and purposes just as Aussie as a Commodore or a Falcon.

This is why I think the Aurion should be noted and respected, because it is the perfect crossover between fwd 4-cyl appliance like a tiida or something terrible, and a manly, fire-breathing boss car like an FG.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

i notice that the people in this thread who knock the aurion haven't driven it or have only had one for a matter of days, where as the lovers have done big kays in them.

i was never going to expect much support for the aurion here (being that its not a ford, being that the 'toyotas are for grampas' point of view and being that it's fwd). personally, i can see its flaws yes. but that doesn't make me disregard it.

Lets face it guys, for the new breed of car buyers, the VE and FG are just too far away for people. They'd prefer something 'nice' (lol) like a mazda 3 or an x-trail or something utterly appliance-like. FG and VE are too manly or cool or something, i haven't figured it out yet. But they are dealing with the stigma of cars gone by, for some reason this new breed of buyer thinks an FG and XD could be one and the same for all they care. The aurion fixes this: it provides full-size car space with a punchy yet economical V6, yet is still an Australian-made car and for all intents and purposes just as Aussie as a Commodore or a Falcon.
This is why I think the Aurion should be noted and respected, because it is the perfect crossover between fwd 4-cyl appliance like a tiida or something terrible, and a manly, fire-breathing boss car like an FG.

I don't think it's sales reflect this well. But I see where youre coming from.

[cosmo20btt]

Hired a Aurion Sportivo, in short it was junk but was averagely quick for what it was, yet when the missus drove it she thought it was really good but even she agreed it was not as good as the SP23 which is not as fast but is a delight to drive compared to Sportivo. Toyota have a long way to go in being able to deliver an Australian based car, as reliability means nothing to anyone if they trade them after a couple of years anyway.

[csv8]

I have hired an Aurion twice..hated it both times, inside looks plain jane, and the foot handbrake !!!!!!!!!!!!!! The boot entrance is too small no fun getting 3 cases in !!

[DK30RB]

Originally Posted by mik

glad you had a good run DK30RB with the toyo mate, 60000 k`s isnt a lot of k`s though, and i suspect the aurion will get driven differently to the xr6t , and i suspect thats the case in general, would it be fair to say there are more of the pensioner demographic driveing the aurion than the falcon, let us know how it goes after a decent mileage, you mentioned the knock in the front end , i did see a complaint about driveshaft knock , if i find it i`ll post the link, both nice looking limo`s you have there.

While 60,000k isn't a huge amount, its about as long as i keep a car for usually. This one has been so reliable that i have decided to hold onto it for the wife. The Xr6T is my 12th new car since 1995. I have had some cars completely fall apart in less than 40,000km (the BA XR6 being one of them). The knock ended up being caused by me lowering it with original shocks on lowered springs. I ended up purchasing a set of adjustable coilovers for it and now its perfect. No more knocking.....

I can't see why people bag the interior so much, i don't mind it, even compared to the FG.

The stock ATX isn't a terrific drive, but the sportivo's bring it up a notch a little, modified suspension makes better again.

Anyway each to his own i guess. The only reason i didn't by another one is because the new model isn't due for a while yet. I may consider it if it is available when the XR hits 60,000km.....

[Mr Brooksy]

I love the Aurions top line leather front seats, unbelievably comfortable for a tall lanky bloke like myself. Falcons leather seats leave me wondering if I could "just adjust it a little more, then maybe Ill be really comfy". Those bucket seats are awesome. But alas after driving one a 'few' times, it is just like a Camry with more power... but with those seats!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

I love the Aurions top line leather front seats, unbelievably comfortable for a tall lanky bloke like myself. Falcons leather seats leave me wondering if I could "just adjust it a little more, then maybe Ill be really comfy". Those bucket seats are awesome. But alas after driving one a 'few' times, it is just like a Camry with more power... but with those seats!!

i`m guessing your reffering to leg room? in times past with falcons the seart runners had had extra positions so you could adjust the seats on the runners for more forward or back movement, i don`t know if this is still the case.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

i notice that the people in this thread who knock the aurion haven't driven it or have only had one for a matter of days, where as the lovers have done big kays in them.

i was never going to expect much support for the aurion here (being that its not a ford, being that the 'toyotas are for grampas' point of view and being that it's fwd). personally, i can see its flaws yes. but that doesn't make me disregard it.

Lets face it guys, for the new breed of car buyers, the VE and FG are just too far away for people. They'd prefer something 'nice' (lol) like a mazda 3 or an x-trail or something utterly appliance-like. FG and VE are too manly or cool or something, i haven't figured it out yet. But they are dealing with the stigma of cars gone by, for some reason this new breed of buyer thinks an FG and XD could be one and the same for all they care. The aurion fixes this: it provides full-size car space with a punchy yet economical V6, yet is still an Australian-made car and for all intents and purposes just as Aussie as a Commodore or a Falcon.

This is why I think the Aurion should be noted and respected, because it is the perfect crossover between fwd 4-cyl appliance like a tiida or something terrible, and a manly, fire-breathing boss car like an FG.

Once again, I disagree. I personally think the Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 (and their cousins, the Focus and Mondeo) are great vehicles. (We have a Mazda 3 in our garage and I think that it is a brilliant automobile.) They are dynamically miles ahead of the Toyota Corolla and Camry/Aurion. It clearly shows what a competent manufacture (i.e. Mazda; plus the likes of Ford, Subaru, and Volkswagen) can do with FWD/AWD.

My views have nothing to do with old school verses new school (whatever that means). I clocked up a few thousand kilometres in the Aurion over a period of a fortnight. Surely, that is more than long enough to form an opinion of the vehicle. The sad fact is that Camry/Aurion suspension, particularly the rear suspension, is about ten years behind the times. And, in typical Toyota fashion, the bushes are too soft and the spring/damper rates being out of wack.

As bad as it is in the Aurion, I can understand torque steer. What is more concerning is that in 2009 manufactures, like Toyota, are still selling vehicles, like the Aurion, with the level of roll steer. Take an Aurion on a twisty road (and for good measure, include a few passengers). Turn into a corner. Notice how, as the vehicle rolls around its z-axis, the driver has to correct the steering angle. (In the Aurion, there is even a little bit of y-axis movement for good measure.) In the Aurion, this is excessive, to the point that most drivers are continuously chasing the vehicle. I would suspect that most Aurion drivers are even unaware that they are constantly nibbling at the wheel to mask this suspension deficiency.

While I have the ugly stick out ... I’ll address some points raise in other posts. I was rather nonplussed with the human interface in the Aurion.

Some examples.

A) While it is possible to dim the dash lights, I could not find a way to dim the centre console lights. At night, on a dark road, the blaring white light from the centre console degraded my night vision. Surely, this is a safety issue for long distant night driving.

B) While there is indication that the cruise control is armed, there is no indication that the cruise control is active. The control system on the cruise has an intolerably wide bandwidth that is reminiscent of a VZ Commodore. The cruise control is reluctant to drop down gears to control descent speed and it overshoots on the crest of even moderate hills. Whereas the FG has indication for when the cruise control is both armed and set. The FG displays the target speed and has a far tighter control system. The FG also has the nice feature of being able to bump the cruise set speed in either 1 or 10 kph increments and the driver can see the new set speed in the dash. Whereas the Aurion has a rather awkward, off axis, dangly cruise control that does something but I am not quite sure what.

C) There was considerable disagreement between the indicated speed on the Aurion and the GPS. Worst, there appeared to be some drift in the Aurion’s indicated speed when compared to the GPS speed. Unlike the Aurion, there is an option to display the speed in a digital format on the FG.

D) Believe me, there is more ...

The only good point about the Aurion is the engine/transmission. For a V6, it is remarkably smooth. But, if one thinks that it is as smooth or as torque-ish as the FG I6, then, one is kidding themselves. Surprisingly, the example that I drove was consuming about 2l/100km more that I would have expected from my FG.

The Aurion is not some magical new class of vehicle. It is a Camry shell, with a V6, an another nose and tail grafted on. I can understand why people would buy a Camry. It is a competent, somewhat staid, safe (when driven below 3/10ths), cost effective vehicle that will reliably get people from A to B.

If that is what you want from motoring, I respect that. I am at a loss as to why someone would buy a V6 Camry, opps, excuse me, an Aurion, and believe that it is a great automobile.

[Swordsman88]

Fully agree with whynot. If you are a fan of a good drive (which goes beyond being a car enthusiast) the problems with the aurion are quite numerous. A 1990s camry has the same rear suspension as the aurion in effect so that shoudl raise eyebrows right away. Name one other manufacturer that has done this (ford has had 3 diff types on Falcon, commodore has changed too....)

It's not the worst car on the planet but to anyone that knows a thing or two about chassis control/balance and making a generally 'enjoyable' car to drive will find it very much lacking. I'd sooner drive my sisters LR focus....it might have a hell of alot less grunt but everthing just flows together so much better....

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by DK30RB

Well, i own both a 2007 Aurion Zr6 (which has now been passed on to my wife) and an FG XR6T. While the FG is a great car, there are aspects to the Aurion that make it better.

Aurion has better, build quality, blue tooth that works, 8 way electric seats, lockable fuel flap, easier to read insrument cluster, illuminated steering wheel controls, dual zone climate control standard on sports model, drivers grab handle, auto locking with push button start - no key required, and standard front and rear parking sensors.

The FG XR6T compared to the equivalent zr6 Aurion model misses out on all of Aurion's standard features mentioned above and hence cheapens the car a little.

Don't get me wrong FG goes better and handles better, but the little things you get used to can lessen ownership satisfaction a little.

In 60,000 km's the Aurion has not even required a light globe. I did have an issue with a knock in the front suspension, which was caused by me having it lowered. Toyota still replaced the shocks under warrany however.

I've only done 5000km's in the Xr6t so can't speak for reliability yet, but my old BA was such a lemon that most people, including me are surprised i went back to Ford. (sold it after 18months and 45,000km)

IMO the Aurion is still a great looking car.

Quite a nice looking car DK.....the aurion is such an improvement over the base camry design IMO (thanks largely to nick hogias an ex ford BA XR designer...). With those wheels and lowered it is more than tolerable style wise, if a tad conservative...

The issue i have is really one of your preferences. I think the issue with the aurion (apart from those bowls club jokes) is that while quite a good car from an ownership perspective (esp the mid to high spec cars...) it really doesn't have what i would consider an appealing case. To be honest, while i realise the extra feature are great, i so don't care. Not when the base car is so average i.e. handling etc. as noted in my previous post. It woudl be great if Ford could give you all that for less (and it is available as part of option packs etc. albeit for more coin) but more importantly the car drive's so much better.

While every car needs time for its driver to work out how best to pilot it, i am (and so would most motoring fans as well) shocked that you would put any aurion model (save perhaps the TRD...) in the same class as an FG XR6T. You'd have to give me a 20 year waranty and a boot full of gold bulion in the aurion to make me ever see it in the same light..... I think with modern cars all being so similar in base features/design we are seeing feature lists being used to differentiate cars. The 'voice control' on mondeo is an example of ford doing that. Its the same reason the large car is down on sales generally....its all about 'itneresting' 'niche' cars....a large (esp aussie built) sedan is just so yesterday.... But the fact is that a car is to take you places. Any car enthusiast worth their salt should see it as more than a loungeroom with wheels.....features are nice but a heated cup holder does not make up for crip turn in or balanced handling. These are things that a car should be good at...its for moving people in a more interesting as well as comfortable manner. Otherwise we should all just take buses or trains no?

As i said, its an issue of preferences. For whateve reason, Toyota has found the large car segment has buyers not swayed by the aurion's proposition. Its really the car that doestn' deliver for mine......

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by mik

i`m guessing your reffering to leg room? in times past with falcons the seart runners had had extra positions so you could adjust the seats on the runners for more forward or back movement, i don`t know if this is still the case.

No actually, the seat seems to sit lower in the car, and the back (part your back rests on) seems much longer than Fords so instead of my middle and lower back getting support, my shoulders do too, it's a sensational feeling (yes I know this makes me seem weird, but it's impossible to find a seat that is comfy for me). Plus I don't have to lean back at 45 degrees so my head doesn't hit the roof everytime I go over a slight bump.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

No actually, the seat seems to sit lower in the car, and the back (part your back rests on) seems much longer than Fords so instead of my middle and lower back getting support, my shoulders do too, it's a sensational feeling (yes I know this makes me seem weird, but it's impossible to find a seat that is comfy for me). Plus I don't have to lean back at 45 degrees so my head doesn't hit the roof everytime I go over a slight bump.

As a fellow tall bugger with a sometimes niggly back i know where you are coming from LOL! I wonder if you could get those aurion seats into an FG then ha ha

[DK30RB]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Quite a nice looking car DK.....the aurion is such an improvement over the base camry design IMO (thanks largely to nick hogias an ex ford BA XR designer...). With those wheels and lowered it is more than tolerable style wise, if a tad conservative...

The issue i have is really one of your preferences. I think the issue with the aurion (apart from those bowls club jokes) is that while quite a good car from an ownership perspective (esp the mid to high spec cars...) it really doesn't have what i would consider an appealing case. To be honest, while i realise the extra feature are great, i so don't care. Not when the base car is so average i.e. handling etc. as noted in my previous post. It woudl be great if Ford could give you all that for less (and it is available as part of option packs etc. albeit for more coin) but more importantly the car drive's so much better.

While every car needs time for its driver to work out how best to pilot it, i am (and so would most motoring fans as well) shocked that you would put any aurion model (save perhaps the TRD...) in the same class as an FG XR6T. You'd have to give me a 20 year waranty and a boot full of gold bulion in the aurion to make me ever see it in the same light..... I think with modern cars all being so similar in base features/design we are seeing feature lists being used to differentiate cars. The 'voice control' on mondeo is an example of ford doing that. Its the same reason the large car is down on sales generally....its all about 'itneresting' 'niche' cars....a large (esp aussie built) sedan is just so yesterday.... But the fact is that a car is to take you places. Any car enthusiast worth their salt should see it as more than a loungeroom with wheels.....features are nice but a heated cup holder does not make up for crip turn in or balanced handling. These are things that a car should be good at...its for moving people in a more interesting as well as comfortable manner. Otherwise we should all just take buses or trains no?

As i said, its an issue of preferences. For whateve reason, Toyota has found the large car segment has buyers not swayed by the aurion's proposition. Its really the car that doestn' deliver for mine......

I consider myself to be a car enthusiast, like i said i have owned a number of new cars in the past 15 years, 6 of those being Falcons. All have had modifed suspension, wheels, and trim. I look after my cars and show a genuine interest in both handling, driveability and features.

But i am realistic.

Whats so shocking about putting the XR6T and the Aurion in the same class. Both cars are a 5 seat FAMILY SEDAN.

99% of my driving is between my home, office and clients, i'm usually stuck in traffic driving at 40km's hour. Anyone who drives the m5 (or Sydney Traffic)daily will tell you that a cars dynamics mean nothing!!! Its all about features and comfort. Sure for the 1% of the time when i can have some fun in the XR6T it wins hands down in terms of dynamics and performance. But as an all rounder for Normal everyday driving its hard to separate the two. Each have their good and bad points.

I can't justify the reasoning that 1% of my driving is spirited so i MUST buy another XR6T or FPV when my lease is up. I'll buy the car that suits 99% of my driving patterns/needs and if it happens to be a new Aurion then so be it....

When it comes down to it, for my driving requirements, the 200kw Aurion is going to get me there just as quick as the 270kw XR6T and use much less fuel.

avg 8.9 L/100 in the Aurion -vs- 12.9 in the XR6T on the same driving route.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DK30RB

I consider myself to be a car enthusiast, like i said i have owned a number of new cars in the past 15 years, 6 of those being Falcons. All have had modifed suspension, wheels, and trim. I look after my cars and show a genuine interest in both handling, driveability and features.

But i am realistic.

Whats so shocking about putting the XR6T and the Aurion in the same class. Both cars are a 5 seat FAMILY SEDAN.

99% of my driving is between my home, office and clients, i'm usually stuck in traffic driving at 40km's hour. Anyone who drives the m5 (or Sydney Traffic)daily will tell you that a cars dynamics mean nothing!!! Its all about features and comfort. Sure for the 1% of the time when i can have some fun in the XR6T it wins hands down in terms of dynamics and performance. But as an all rounder for Normal everyday driving its hard to separate the two. Each have their good and bad points.

I can't justify the reasoning that 1% of my driving is spirited so i MUST buy another XR6T or FPV when my lease is up. I'll buy the car that suits 99% of my driving patterns/needs and if it happens to be a new Aurion then so be it....

When it comes down to it, for my driving requirements, the 200kw Aurion is going to get me there just as quick as the 270kw XR6T and use much less fuel.

avg 8.9 L/100 in the Aurion -vs- 12.9 in the XR6T on the same driving route.

Those are very convincing reasons why Aurions hold some appeal.

I was very impressed with the Aurion Presara I rode in once, the standard equipment is incredible: Xenon headlights, Opritron instruments, electric rear window shade(!), sat nav, sunroof, keyless entry and push button start, electric passenger and driver seats, leather, wood etc. Why bother with a Lexus!

Imagine a Falcon G6E with the equipment of the Aurion Presara.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by DK30RB

... show a genuine interest in both handling ...

Then why bother with an Aurion?

Originally Posted by DK30RB

Whats so shocking about putting the XR6T and the Aurion in the same class. Both cars are a 5 seat FAMILY SEDAN.

Not quite. The Aurion is a Camry with a grafted nose, tail, and a V6. The Aurion’s interior is the same as a Camry. The Camry is a medium class vehicle. Five adults in an Aurion is a squishy experience.

Originally Posted by DK30RB

99% of my driving is between my home, office and clients, i'm usually stuck in traffic driving at 40km's hour. Anyone who drives the m5 (or Sydney Traffic)daily will tell you that a cars dynamics mean nothing!!! Its all about features and comfort.

Then why buy an XR6T? Why even buy the dynamically superior Aurion [cough]? If your days are spent as described, then a top of the line Camry is for you. Heck, when the new hybrid-Camry comes out next year, it should be at the top of your shopping list. That will be perfect for sitting in heavy traffic.

Originally Posted by DK30RB

When it comes down to it, for my driving requirements, the 200kw Aurion is going to get me there just as quick as the 270kw XR6T and use much less fuel.

See suggestion above about hybrid-Camry.

If the Aurion/Camry is for you, that is cool. Each to their own. I just cannot see how an Aurion can be considered in the same class as a FG.

[DK30RB]

Originally Posted by whynot

Then why bother with an Aurion?

You haven't driven my Aurion with its modified suspension (coilovers, caster/camber kit, sway bars, noalathane bushes and new linkages. I think that doesn't qualify you to make comment on the handling of MY aurion. I never said it was great out of the box. But then again neither is the Falcon, hence why a large % of people who are car enthusiasts modify their Falcon's suspension.

Originally Posted by whynot

Not quite. The Aurion is a Camry with a grafted nose, tail, and a V6. The Aurion’s interior is the same as a Camry. The Camry is a medium class vehicle. Five adults in an Aurion is a squishy experience.

The interior is different. It is the same size as a camry, however i have had no problem putting 5 people in the Aurion. Every Friday i take the same group of 4 clients to lunch(5 of us in total) and no word of a lie when they all first got into the falcon they all said it felt like a smaller car. Everyone who gets in the aurion then falcon does not believe me when i say the falcon is bigger. I don't know what the actual measurements are, but go and do a direct back to back comparison - sit in an aurion with leather then a falcon - Truthfully tell us which car feels bigger.

I don't know if its the layout/design, but even sitting in the Aurion as a driver, the car feels bigger. Lighter.

Originally Posted by whynot

Then why buy an XR6T? Why even buy the dynamically superior Aurion [cough]? If your days are spent as described, then a top of the line Camry is for you. Heck, when the new hybrid-Camry comes out next year, it should be at the top of your shopping list. That will be perfect for sitting in heavy traffic.

Maybe you need some cough medicine for that persistent cough of yours.

Where did i say the Aurion is dynamically superior - in fact i said the opposite in my previous post - maybe you misread my previous posts!!!!......

I wont buy a four cylinder or a hybrid, because i do want some power when needed (ie going on holidays with the family - where i wouldn't drive at the limits anyway). Any six cylinder would serve this purpose. (i owned 1 4 cylnder car and found it wasn't for me).

I bought an XR6t becasue the deal was fantastic. I walked into the dealer to consder a G6E. There in the showroom was the XR6T with 6 speed Auto, Leather, Premium Sound, Reverse Camera, Tech Pack, Spare full size alloy, tint mats, scuff plates in the showroom. Brand new i drove it away for $46k. Couldn't see the need to by the G6e (non turbo), when the XR6T had most of the features i wanted at a good price. To be honest - i had never even driven a FG falcon until after i signed and paid the deposit on mine....

I'm also the type of person that when i want something, i want it immediately. The XR6t was ready to go. Signed on Tuesday was pre-delivered, registered and ready for pickup on Thursday.

Originally Posted by whynot

See suggestion above about hybrid-Camry.

If the Aurion/Camry is for you, that is cool. Each to their own. I just cannot see how an Aurion can be considered in the same class as a FG.

I can't see how they can be placed in a different class? Both larger sized 5 seater sedans.

I used to own a Liberty 3.0R Spec B (6speed Sti) Great car - still a 5 seater, but you could not put 5 people in it. The liberty is classed as a medium class car, and there is no way the Aurion can be compared to that. The next class up is the large 5 door sedan group, and when it comes to me buying a car - the Aurion, Falcon, Commodore, the old 380 all went into the same class.

Look don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to start any fires here. This is a ford forum and i expect that people will favour falcon over anything else. Its the exact opposite on the Toyota forms. I defend the falcon on the toyota forums when people call it an unreliable barge arsed tractor (now thats an uniformed opinion).

I think they are both great cars, hence i own both. I just get the feeling that a lot of good cars get discounted by members of this formum because of their perhaps uninfiormed views (not directed at anyone in particular - just the feeling i get).

Added note: just checked the specs on the Falcon -v- Aurion on size

Falcon is only 145mm longer
Falcon is only 48mm wider
Is that enough to put it in a different class? I couldn't find the interior dimensions, but i think think they would be even closer.

[Swordsman88]

Good points raised by both DK and whynot to be honest. I have not driven DK's car (modified as it is) so can't comment, all i can compare is FG to Aurion based on my drives of both cars in a few diff spec levels. Given my personal preference for a car that handles well out of the box (not saying you can't improve on the falcon though...) over creature comforts i'd go FG every time.

To be honest i can't see what is wrong with an FG XR6 NA...it would be close on juice to the aurion (with optional 6sp auto anyway) and still drive better. Modify that a bit and you are onto a real winner. That G6 Limited Edition sounds perfect for me...tighten up the suspension a bit and you get plenty of kit and great handling for 37k LOL! Problem is Ford has made the XR6T quite tempting at its price point....

As i said its all about preferences. I think the aurion is one of the best cars in toyota's lineup....now that is not saying much frankly but still its an honest car and for the right buyer (which sounds like DK to me) then that is great. The numerous awards the aurion has won (and continues too) show that it has positive attributes. Problem for me is that every time i read those awards more closely i see it 'won' because it was strong in a range of areas that frankly i don't prioritise or even much care about. Best resale?? Who gives a toss as far as i'm concerned, you dont' buy cars as an investment.....

Here is an example. http://www.australiasbestcars.com.au...car/index.html This Australiani Best Car awards link lets you give priority rankings to each area used in the judging. It then 'picks' the best car for you from the available finalists. Bearing in mind it depends on how the judges ranked the given car in each area but still it does work.

For example, in the large car segment the aurion won this year. But if i put in my priorites the XR6 wins every time..... I tried it in a few other segments and the same thing happens....the car that drove better always won or almost won despite its other deficiencies because that is what i look for. Sure it was a close call for some and there were a few surprises but by and large that is what i look for. I wasn't silly niether and put 'price' as 'low' for everything......

I'd like to think that the guys in this thread can have a civil conversation on thie issue, and largely that is how it is going. There is no need for personal attacks esp when both cars are built here and employ aussies. The only caveat is why say is to be a truly 'great' car it has to drive well. An aurion (stock) can never rise to this level unless toyota makes it handle properly....cars are for moving around.....not just for sitting in....

You buy what suits your lifestyle, for me toyota would have to pilfer the entire Ford global chassis engineering group to have me move camps any time soon. The fact DK loves all the features in the aurion (many of which the car doesn't even have to leave his garage to enjoy) is a damning indightment of what is wrong with modern motoring....conjestion etc.

PS. For the record DK in some dimensions the aurion is probably more spacious then the Falcon. Particular the rear seating area (where your clients would be i'd say) because the Toyota is FWD....also the styling is more 'old school' and gives you a bit more headroom. Overall i'd be shocked if there was much in it.....

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

To be honest i can't see what is wrong with an FG XR6 NA...it would be close on juice to the aurion (with optional 6sp auto anyway) and still drive better. Modify that a bit and you are onto a real winner. That G6 Limited Edition sounds perfect for me...tighten up the suspension a bit and you get plenty of kit and great handling for 37k LOL! Problem is Ford has made the XR6T quite tempting at its price point....

For example, in the large car segment the aurion won this year. But if i put in my priorites the XR6 wins every time..... I tried it in a few other segments and the same thing happens....the car that drove better always won or almost won despite its other deficiencies because that is what i look for. Sure it was a close call for some and there were a few surprises but by and large that is what i look for. I wasn't silly niether and put 'price' as 'low' for everything......

From what I can recall reading. The Aurion won essentially because it was cheapish, depreciation isn't too steep and had a good amount of standard features.

Well, if they looked at the price of an XR6 driveaway, rather than 'retail' price. The Aurion's only real advantage is well and truly whittled away.

Plus, like Swordy said. Add in handling and the result is much different to their non enthusiast motoring scribes (i know, it's an oxymoron) on many bases.

Put simply, the Falcon FG XR6 rocks!

[Mr Hardware]

DK30RB, My hat is off to you. You own both the Aurion and the FG, and are able to provide an in-depth analysis of the real-world, multiple situation, true life ownership of both vehicles, and have done so fairly and equitably, talking about the practice of living with the car and not merely glances and paper specifications.
You are challenged on every point you bring up yet you respond with simple facts, which shows to me that you are confident in the Aurion's abilities that facts are all you need.
Bravo my friend, you have done well.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

DK30RB, My hat is off to you. You own both the Aurion and the FG, and are able to provide an in-depth analysis of the real-world, multiple situation, true life ownership of both vehicles, and have done so fairly and equitably, talking about the practice of living with the car and not merely glances and paper specifications.
You are challenged on every point you bring up yet you respond with simple facts, which shows to me that you are confident in the Aurion's abilities that facts are all you need.
Bravo my friend, you have done well.

Indeed, can't be easy trying to spruik an aurion (or any non-Ford) around these parts. Still, he has made some good points and while not my cup of tea the aurion seems to fit his needs very well. Which is what car ownership is really all about.

[DK30RB]

Thanks guys.

I think we can all agree that there is a car for everyone out there whether it be a ford, toyota, holden or anything else.

Its great tobe able to have an open discussion with other car enthousiasts and share each others views and opinions.

[irlewy86]

Toyota only has themselves to blame for the failure of the Aurion. They already had 2 mid size SUV's and the class leading mid-size car not to mention the abortion job Prius all competing for the same market as the Aurion. They of all the manufacturers should have seen the split from the traditional large car market. That said it probably just a jealous act by Toyota's Australian arm to take a fight to Ford/Holden. The car itself was probably 7/10 of being a success. The engine could rev, but let down by it's FWD config.

[russellw]

While there is a l-o-n-g list of stupidities in the way our market segments are carved up for statistical purposes, there is a reasonable case for having both the Aurion "sporty" version in the same category as the XR6 given that the segments are about packaging and they are similar packages.

The Aurion line-up actually sold better that I thought it would; something of a testament to the marketing power of Toyota, their overall reputation and the general apathy of the motoring community.
The last point is probably the most telling. We have this tendency to view the world from a perspective that includes (at the very least) more than a passing interest in cars as you would expect from a site such as this. There are about 12 million passenger vehicles on the road in Australia and probably a similar number of licence holders (I don't have those figures with me currently).

You could therefore guesstimate:

1. The percentage of those 12 million vehicles that are Fords is similar to the 10 year (the average age of Aussie cars) average for Ford market share - or about 11%.

2. Of the resulting 1.3 million vehicles we can apply the average ratio of licence holders to vehciles and we come up with a nice round 1.0 million drivers.

3. The major Ford internet forums in this country (allowing for some duplication in member base) probably account for about 75,000 people.

4. Even if we assume a 1:1 ratio on members to Ford vehicle ownership (which is likely generous) AND assume that they all could be described as enthusiasts (equally generous) then we have all of 7.5% as enthusiasts.

You could no doubt apply similar numbers to Holden but the numbers would drop rapidly for Mazda, Toyota et al so the best extrapolation you could reasonably draw is that something around 5% of the licence holders in this country could be considered car enthusiasts.
That figure is probably supported by a quick look at magazine circulation figures which have been in decline (for motoring) to the point where each issue of No Idea sells 15x more copies than the best selling automotive magazine.

It's something we have to accept as being a part of the change in society and thus cars that don't necessarily appeal to the enthusiast will be popular because they offer: (a) better perceived feel (b) more equipment or (c) a reputation that appeals to people - be that quality or image. The answer as to whether that is enough to sell a second car to the same person (repeat sales being the basis of Ford / Holden historical success) seems to be what the dropping figures and the anecdotal comments in this thread are indicating and it would be interesting to do exit interviews on those not choosing another Aurion to see both what they are changing too but more importantly why. I'm sure it would provide a great insight into the mindset of the average Australian new car buyer expecially given Toyotas reputation for cradle to grave once they have you in their fold.

We'll probably never know of course and will thus continue to speculate!

Cheers
Russ

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by merlin

They really are a "decent" car. I have driven plenty through work and would certainly take an Aurion over a VE but the FG is much better than both.

You can't be serious?? The Aurion has even less torque compared to the VE 6, 336 vs 350, not to mention FWD

I agree the FG is the better car, wouldnt have one otherwise, but I would much rather a VE>Aurion.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by russellw

While there is a l-o-n-g list of stupidities in the way our market segments are carved up for statistical purposes, there is a reasonable case for having both the Aurion "sporty" version in the same category as the XR6 given that the segments are about packaging and they are similar packages.

The Aurion line-up actually sold better that I thought it would; something of a testament to the marketing power of Toyota, their overall reputation and the general apathy of the motoring community.
The last point is probably the most telling. We have this tendency to view the world from a perspective that includes (at the very least) more than a passing interest in cars as you would expect from a site such as this. There are about 12 million passenger vehicles on the road in Australia and probably a similar number of licence holders (I don't have those figures with me currently).

You could therefore guesstimate:

1. The percentage of those 12 million vehicles that are Fords is similar to the 10 year (the average age of Aussie cars) average for Ford market share - or about 11%.

2. Of the resulting 1.3 million vehicles we can apply the average ratio of licence holders to vehciles and we come up with a nice round 1.0 million drivers.

3. The major Ford internet forums in this country (allowing for some duplication in member base) probably account for about 75,000 people.

4. Even if we assume a 1:1 ratio on members to Ford vehicle ownership (which is likely generous) AND assume that they all could be described as enthusiasts (equally generous) then we have all of 7.5% as enthusiasts.

You could no doubt apply similar numbers to Holden but the numbers would drop rapidly for Mazda, Toyota et al so the best extrapolation you could reasonably draw is that something around 5% of the licence holders in this country could be considered car enthusiasts.
That figure is probably supported by a quick look at magazine circulation figures which have been in decline (for motoring) to the point where each issue of No Idea sells 15x more copies than the best selling automotive magazine.

It's something we have to accept as being a part of the change in society and thus cars that don't necessarily appeal to the enthusiast will be popular because they offer: (a) better perceived feel (b) more equipment or (c) a reputation that appeals to people - be that quality or image. The answer as to whether that is enough to sell a second car to the same person (repeat sales being the basis of Ford / Holden historical success) seems to be what the dropping figures and the anecdotal comments in this thread are indicating and it would be interesting to do exit interviews on those not choosing another Aurion to see both what they are changing too but more importantly why. I'm sure it would provide a great insight into the mindset of the average Australian new car buyer expecially given Toyotas reputation for cradle to grave once they have you in their fold.

We'll probably never know of course and will thus continue to speculate!

Cheers
Russ

Very good post Russ. I have had this discussion with fellow car enthusiast (of varoius brand persuasions) and it becomes clear within minutes of talking to 'non car fans' that alot buyers realy dont' get it when they buy a car. Its not so much that they bought the wrong car (though many prob have) but that their reasoning and even emotional responses to the car they chose are just so confusing and warped. Some of it belies understanding, whatever manufacturer you bat for. When you realise how small the % of the driving/buying pop. are 'car enthusiasts' you can work out why there are so many average cars on the roads with average drivers..... As Jeremy Clarkson once said, if you dont' have a passion for something you probalby won't take much interest in it, and if you dont' take much interest, you probalby won't be very good at it.....

As i've always said, with the relatively open and sophisticated car market in australia there is no excuse for not find a car that is right for you. It may not be perfect but with a bit of thought you can generally find a quality car that suits your needs. BUT, for most car enthusiasts that should ideally include in some significant manner, the way the car drives. DK may have bought an aurion (not the best handling car in its class by far) but he did mod it suspension wise which i think is quite telling.

While i want creature comforts as much as the next guy (and competitive pricing/operating costs) a car is for driving, its not just for sittig in. You configure your lounge/tv room for that...nice chairs, aircon, big screen, good sound, nice build etc. But you cant' drive your loungeroom somewhere can you? (ok maybe if its a winebago LOL). All car enthusiasts (and really all drivers) should demand that all cars are 'driver's cars. They dont' have to hande like a lotus or go like a lambo, or even be 'best in class' for that matter, but they should be responsive, intuitive and feel 'comfortable' to drive. That's just my view anyway...

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by russellw

...............
4. Even if we assume a 1:1 ratio on members to Ford vehicle ownership (which is likely generous) AND assume that they all could be described as enthusiasts (equally generous) then we have all of 7.5% as enthusiasts.
...............
Cheers
Russ

Assumptions can be tricky. My brother and three of my mates and several of my work colleagues are Ford enthusiasts but none are members of any forum.

I'm always quoting information I've heard on here to them.

I take your point though Russ, and thanks again for the good work you do on the vFacts data. :sm_headba