Q Police Union Speed Cameras ARE Revenue Raising

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

No no, what we do down here in Victoria is speed up to the cameras which we pretty much know where all are now, slam on the brakes, go down to 80km/h, pass the camera then go back to speeding. Which causes a nice traffic jam, you really need to drive down here on our speed camera highways to see what its like. When you see a car on the side of the road, that pretty much means everyone slow down to look at it, then speed up again.

I don't know whats safer, 10km/h over or slamming on brakes and causing traffic jams.

I have driven down there, we do a lot of travel through QLD, NSW, ACT and Vic.

Why do you have to speed, then slam on brakes and then speed? Does it really get you there that much quicker?

Perhaps one day you will understand.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Steady decline in road toll from 3500 in 1981 down to 1600 in 2007, where is the increase?

Yes there have been years that were higher than the previous, by relatively small numbers, but the overall trend is less deaths, that is fact.

What those that tell you the road toll is not decreasing because of the number of actual deaths is that the percentage of deaths per number of road users has decreased.

Hold up, Did cars have all those electronic aids back in 1981? Crumple zones and all those other safety dodads we have these days.

I'd put the drop mostly down to cars being better.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I have driven down there, we do a lot of travel through QLD, NSW, ACT and Vic.

Why do you have to speed, then slam on brakes and then speed? Does it really get you there that much quicker?

Perhaps one day you will understand.

I dont know, ask everyone else who does it too. If the government gave a rats *** about life, why wouldn't they just go and GPS speed limit cars? Go into a 60 zone, car gets limited to 60km/h, go into 110km/h zone car gets limited to 110kmh? The only way to stop people dying on the roads is remove the person driving them, maybe when cars drive themselves.

I suppose GST would be 75% then....

The amount of cash the government gets from speeding fines and fuel excise, the roads should all be paved gold and they could shout everyone a new car with all the electronic aids to further reduce the toll.

Or subsidise new cars or something, who knows.

[SirHenry]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

See, the argument, "if you're not speeding you have nothing to worry about" is wrong and arrogant. I wonder if anyone who peddles this can honestly say they haven't simply drifted over the limit, and straight away corrected it when they realised. Problem with these cameras is they can get you at that split second.

And how do they save lives? Tell me this, I'm flying down the road doing 80km/h in a 60 km/h zone, I fly past a camera and it takes my photo then 100m later I lose control and hit a pole and kill myself. How has that camera saves anyones life?

Dunno but you guys, but I sure as hell slow down more when I see a police car than when it's just a undercover camera.

It's not wrong and arrogant, it's the road rules that have been set down to us whether we like em or not.

If you were flying down the road doing 80 in a 60 zone and loose control and kill yourself after speed camera then may people might wonder if you would still be alive if you were doing 60 perhaps? Just a thought to consider.

I guess the hope is that when you receive your speeding fine in the mail it will hopefully make you think a bit more before you decide to speed.

I agree completely that there should be more marked and unmarked patrol cars on our roads they help stop the lunacy that some people do on our roads other that just speeding ie tailgating, DUI etc.

If you don't agree with the road rules that are set down to us by the our governments then either send a letter to your local state member of parliament or learn to live with them because I would think they are here to stay.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Hold up, Did cars have all those electronic aids back in 1981? Crumple zones and all those other safety dodads we have these days.

I'd put the drop mostly down to cars being better.

Or it could be better roads, better driver training, better tyres and whole host of other reasons.

What education or statistical evidence are you basing your theory on?

My point is, the ratio of road deaths per road user has declined over the last 3 decades. Why is that? can I prove that speed cameras and red light cameras have contributed to that, of course I can't. Just like no one here can prove that they have not.

This is a pointless discussion, they will be here to stay and personally I could not give a toss. If you want to speed and risk the fine, go ahead. Just pay the fine quietly when you get caught (statement not aimed at you Damo, aimed at all complaining about speed cameras). If I get caught drifting over the speed limit (has happened, I am human), I will pay my fine and be a bit more careful next time, like I have always done.

Not going to waste my time on this pointless discussion that has no clear answer any more, have fun!

[Adamz Ghia]

In all honesty, I would be happy to pay an extra couple of dollars a week in tax for more police if it were needed. There is a lot of budget waste in Victoria (Myki, desal, the Very Fast Trains that are actually slower than the ones they replaced), if we had a more competent government there are billions that could be saved that could pay for these police. Victoria has the lowest police per capita in the country, yet we are growing faster than the national average. This is wrong.

If you told a kid not to enter a room, and actually stood at the door watching them or left them with a camera watching them, which one will be more effective...?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

If you told a kid not to enter a room, and actually stood at the door watching them or left them with a camera watching them, which one will be more effective...?

But I am sure you have other things to do. Can you stand at every door way or observe that child every minute of the day? No you can't. Can the cops observe every motorist for every minute of their travel? No they can't, no matter how many cops their are.

The number of police required to give the coverage required would very quickly become unmanageable in regards to cost and trust me, people do not want to pay for services they do not see direct need for. Just look at how many whine about paying ambulance contributions in states that have compulsory schemes (QLD), or how many pay ambulance subscription in states that do not.

Yes you may say you will pay the extra money for the new super police force, but most will whine about it.

[Pedro]

OK gekoGT, you believe that "speed cameras" save lives, but the majority think otherwise as is evidenced by this debate and in other medias. And I empathise with the anguish associated with your form of work.

However all these “initiatives” from state governments concentrate on fining people AFTER driving over the speed limit. Intelligent people would like the governments to put forward initiatives to PREVENT people driving over the speed limit and in doing so, at least show they are making an attempt to lower a part of the disastrous road toll rather than just increase revenue.

[The Lone Ranger]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

But I am sure you have other things to do. Can you stand at every door way or observe that child every minute of the day? No you can't. Can the cops observe every motorist for every minute of their travel? No they can't, no matter how many cops their are.

The number of police required to give the coverage required would very quickly become unmanageable in regards to cost and trust me, people do not want to pay for services they do not see direct need for. Just look at how many whine about paying ambulance contributions in states that have compulsory schemes (QLD), or how many pay ambulance subscription in states that do not.

Yes you may say you will pay the extra money for the new super police force, but most will whine about it.

Oh yeah, the good ole Community Ambulance Cover scheme. Another bulshite idea dreamed up by this State Government that we have running the show here in Queensland. An argument for another day for sure.

I recieved a Camera infringement notice just last week and thought to myself "self, you were obviously speeding......cop it swet and pay the fine. 1 demerit point and $133.00 for doing 110 in a 100 zone. It's not that bad."

Today however I was heading up to Maroochydore on the Bruce and passed the installation of our first point to point camera site for Queensland. Careful everyone as it should be operational within the next 14 days. A few kilometers further down the track I noticed that there was a vehicle down the ditch on the left hand side of the highway and saw that the occupants were trying to change a flat. You see..... there isn't even enough room for someone to change a tyre safely on the Bruce Highway, in a 110 zone mind you, yet they have managed to widen two sections to make way for these new cameras in a section where I can't remember the last speed related death. Our State Goverment is so bereft of any fair play and continue to pi$$ our money up against the wall that this is what they are reduced to.
If they were really serious about the number of road trauma and related deaths then the first thing that they would make a priority is to ensure that no opposing traffic is able to come into contact with each other. They might want to also look at clearing all the trees that are left to grow so close to the edge of these roads.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Pedro

OK gekoGT, you believe that "speed cameras" save lives, but the majority think otherwise as is evidenced by this debate and in other medias. And I empathise with the anguish associated with your form of work.

However all these “initiatives” from state governments concentrate on fining people AFTER driving over the speed limit. Intelligent people would like the governments to put forward initiatives to PREVENT people driving over the speed limit and in doing so, at least show they are making an attempt to lower a part of the disastrous road toll rather than just increase revenue.

I think you need to read my posts a bit better.

I did not say that speed cameras save lives, never have. All I have said is that the road toll has not increased in any year at the same rate that the number of road users has for that year. Therefore the relative percentage of road deaths has decreased. No one can attribute this to any one factor as there have been too many variables happening concurrently. Any speculation that speed law enforcement initiatives have not contributed to this reduction is just that, pure unfounded and unproven speculation.

To prove this theory it would require a time period (say 10 years to account for unusual annual variation), with no other improvements or changes made (in drivers, cars or roads) except the increase in use of speed cameras, to provide such evidence. This is research that will never be done so the true answer will never be known.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or it could be better roads, better driver training, better tyres and whole host of other reasons.

What education or statistical evidence are you basing your theory on?

My point is, the ratio of road deaths per road user has declined over the last 3 decades. Why is that? can I prove that speed cameras and red light cameras have contributed to that, of course I can't. Just like no one here can prove that they have not.

This is a pointless discussion, they will be here to stay and personally I could not give a toss. If you want to speed and risk the fine, go ahead. Just pay the fine quietly when you get caught (statement not aimed at you Damo, aimed at all complaining about speed cameras). If I get caught drifting over the speed limit (has happened, I am human), I will pay my fine and be a bit more careful next time, like I have always done.

Not going to waste my time on this pointless discussion that has no clear answer any more, have fun!

Spon on.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by ENIAL8

Oh yeah, the good ole Community Ambulance Cover scheme. Another bulshite idea dreamed up by this State Government that we have running the show here in Queensland. An argument for another day for sure.

I rest my case on the idea of the public contributing financially for all these new cops.

[snappy]

I posted this in another thread . It for the uk but it does seem there past is our now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvtvfSJi2fg

[svo supporter]

On the issue of the road toll. Why in the last 2 years in South Aust, has the road toll climbed? Yes, we have the introduction of speed/red light cameras. We have also seen the removal of signage associated with camera cars. Yet 2 years ago, the road toll in South Aust was 99 or there abouts. Since then, the roll toll has climbed over the 100 mark.

Doesn't add up, does it.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

On the issue of the road toll. Why in the last 2 years in South Aust, has the road toll climbed? Yes, we have the introduction of speed/red light cameras. We have also seen the removal of signage associated with camera cars. Yet 2 years ago, the road toll in South Aust was 99 or there abouts. Since then, the roll toll has climbed over the 100 mark.

Doesn't add up, does it.

It does actually.

When you look at the figures for SA, 2006 was 117, 2007 was 125, 2008 was 99, 2009 was 199 and the 5 year average over that time period is 126.

From this you can see that the result for 2008 was an anomaly (a very nice one) and way below the previous trend and also 5 year average. Of course there is going to be yearly variation in figures and comparing one year to the the next gives no indication of trend or efficacy of safety measures. I t would be interesting to see what the 10 and 20 year results are for SA (I can't be stuffed looking), but I bet you will find SA has followed a similar decline in road toll as evidenced by the following result from the ABS.

Death rate per 100,000 population
• Between 2007 and 2008 the number of people killed per 100,000 resident
Australian population declined from 7.6 to 6.9. Ten years ago, the figure was 9.4.

Face it, lets stop looking at the raw road toll and start looking at the death rate per number of registrations or death rate per 100,000 of population.

Then you will see that the road toll is not increasing, it is not even static, it is falling.

If that totally iron clad research artist called Jeremy Clarkson looked into it a bit further he will probably find the UK is the same. Of course he has not looked to deep because he has his own political agenda and we all know that when JC is right, he is damn well right.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

On the issue of the road toll. Why in the last 2 years in South Aust, has the road toll climbed? Yes, we have the introduction of speed/red light cameras. We have also seen the removal of signage associated with camera cars. Yet 2 years ago, the road toll in South Aust was 99 or there abouts. Since then, the roll toll has climbed over the 100 mark.

Doesn't add up, does it.

There may also be a component of increasing "indifference" towards speed camera's now and many are happy to ignore speed limits and cop the fines.. and of coarse the associated concequences of doing so....

[mik]

yes but how much of that improvement can be attributed to the safety of modern cars/trucks and the honeing in by the police force on drink drivers, i`d bet a hell of a lot, not forgetting the cheese shredders and extra divided roads and black spot programs.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by mik

yes but how much of that improvement can be attributed to the safety of modern cars/trucks and the honeing in by the police force on drink drivers, i`d bet a hell of a lot, not forgetting the cheese shredders and extra divided roads and black spot programs.

As I have posted before, no one can tell and to link any reduction in road deaths to population ratio to vehicle safety, driver training or law enforcement is pure unsupported speculation.

[svo supporter]

It was round 08 or 09 that the Gov't decided to remove the signage for camera cars, because motorists were vandalising the cars themselves. (Yes the operators in them.)
The road toll still rose, however I do see what is being said, in respect of the average over a number of years.

As for coping the fines and consequences. I think that applies in all states.