"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday".. Still relevant?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I think you mean 12 hour, the 24 hour was only held in 02/03...

I go to the 12 hour whenever I can and prefer the atmosphere over the V8SC any day....

It was a deliberate typo to sniff out a fan.....

[Road_Warrior]

No relevance to Holden and Ford at all. This is obvious by the conspicuous absence of any references to motorsport in the Falcon and Commodore's marketing material these days.

Now, is it relevant to FPV and HSV...well, that's a different kettle of fish...

[Interceptor]

i work at a Holden dealership, the boys all know I'm a ford boy and i copped some flak this morning, but nothing serious, even we aknowledge that the V8's arent anything to lose sleep over anymore, the V8's are getting so close in parity that its simply no fun anymore, there was more discussion over friday nights dyno night.....

bring back the days of paint swapping, fire breathing, (however barely) road legal cars that still have full trim, and that your average punter can buy and take for a flog on his favourite backroad, something people can associate with beyond the badge, lets get away from the cookie cutter cars, set a standard to which the cars have to adhere re: safety and otherwise let the boys have at it and see what they can achieve

could you imagine what would happen if someone pulled a similar weight trick like DJ did with the tru-blu XD? the whingers would have a field day, back then there wasnt anywhere near as much complaint..... DJ had found an advantage he could exploit and all everyone else had to do was do what he did....

[fordv8!]

very little IMO

[Racecraft]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This old chestnut gets wheeled out every time "they" win Bathurst yet for some inexplicable reason Toyota and Mazda lead the sales race yet have never won there.

Also Fords sales never seemed to increase despite the 2006/7/8 "3peat"...

Is the "Great race" still relevant to the showroom anymore??

sell what....red or blue merchandise......

Bathurst is becoming a comedy, just another page in the V8 SuperCircus

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4vman

"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday".. Still relevant?

Yes. And I rest my case on the mile high pile of money that manufacturers burn on motorsport every year.

If anyone has a good reason for why a cash strapped industry refuses to pull the tens of billions of dollars it spends on motorsport every year, I'm all ears.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Yes. And I rest my case on the mile high pile of money that manufacturers burn on motorsport every year.

If anyone has a good reason for why a cash strapped industry refuses to pull the tens of billions of dollars it spends on motorsport every year, I'm all ears.

Tens of millions, not tens of billions...

Neither Holden or Ford want to be the first to pull out, its a "me too" situation...
The NON Automotive sponsors like the Alcohol and Telco companies gain the most from it.

[madmatty]

the only mates i know that go to bathurst every year both drive toyotas.go figure.

[Racecraft]

Ford doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell of turning the V8 Supercircus around in the next few years but are happy to drop 50 odd million on advertising...


meh!/// 40 mill to develope the new SC donk or a moot advertising campaign in a series that is 50% floated by a pencil decision to re-direct R&D money ... I'd know where my hard earnt would go ......

[JimNiki]

Originally Posted by WMD351

That's my ten cents, my two cents is free.

what about GST? The ranger will get ya!

PS, badges were also genuine ford anf holden parts ...
And they both stood up to the task admirably!...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Yes. And I rest my case on the mile high pile of money that manufacturers burn on motorsport every year.

If anyone has a good reason for why a cash strapped industry refuses to pull the tens of billions of dollars it spends on motorsport every year, I'm all ears.

Thank you.

Holden and Ford support V8SC because there's profitable V8 sales in it for them.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Tens of millions, not tens of billions...

No, tens of billions.

Every manufacturer of note, all over the world invests mega dollars into racing categories that are so far removed from the real products they sell that the main relevance is the badge on the boot.

Are we so contrived as to think that Australia is so unique in the world that the underlying principles of investing in showcasing your brand is worthless?

I think not. Bathurst, and any meeting on the V8SC calendar is more than a race. How many fleet sales made in the Corporate Box does it take to pay for what is a pittance of money from Ford or Holden in sponsorship.

If they didn't advertise at the racetrack, where would you suggest they spend their advertising money and expect to hit their targetted audience over, and over, and over again year in, year out?

Ask Holden how their local sales have been in comparison to other local manufacturers since the turn of the century. Ask them what percentage of their success they attribute to the generation of fans they garnered during the mid to late 80's and early 90's. Ask them who is the driving force behind their local sales today.

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday? Maybe not. Win on Sunday and sew seeds with a generation? Maybe.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GTP006

No, tens of billions.

Every manufacturer of note, all over the world invests mega dollars into racing categories that are so far removed from the real products they sell that the main relevance is the badge on the boot.

Are we so contrived as to think that Australia is so unique in the world that the underlying principles of investing in showcasing your brand is worthless?

I think not. Bathurst, and any meeting on the V8SC calendar is more than a race. How many fleet sales made in the Corporate Box does it take to pay for what is a pittance of money from Ford or Holden in sponsorship.

If they didn't advertise at the racetrack, where would you suggest they spend their advertising money and expect to hit their targetted audience over, and over, and over again year in, year out?

Ask Holden how their local sales have been in comparison to other local manufacturers since the turn of the century. Ask them what percentage of their success they attribute to the generation of fans they garnered during the mid to late 80's and early 90's. Ask them who is the driving force behind their local sales today.

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday? Maybe not. Win on Sunday and sew seeds with a generation? Maybe.

The automotive manufacturers spend other peoples money.. 90% of the funding of Factory based teams is from sponsors.
Sinse were talking about Australia here and Bathurst we're talking millions, not billions..
Neither Ford nor Holden own any team outright, they just sponsor some...

[Joe5619]

I don’t think one race is that important to increase sales (even Bathurst), but motor sport is VERY important... And I think it is "race this decade, sell next decade"... How many of us on here are Ford fans because of motor sports alone??

[x series]

I would think that if it was a 100% australian factory build cars more people would show more interest and it would make it relevent,today it is not about what flag you fly i.e. holden or ford but spondship i.e. vodefone and etc,i read about Dick Johnson buying a ex highway patrol car building it and racing at bathurst and winning but today it cost $600,000 just to build a car. cheers morris

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The automotive manufacturers spend other peoples money.. 90% of the funding of Factory based teams is from sponsors.
Sinse were talking about Australia here and Bathurst we're talking millions, not billions..
Neither Ford nor Holden own any team outright, they just sponsor some...

I don't follow.

I don't recall saying they owned any team, you bought that one up... but since you did and you cite only 10% contribution from Ford/Holden and using the rough guide of $4m per car per year, then Ford only kick the tin a bit over $1m/pa for FPR.

Personally I think it's quite a bit higher but hey, your figures right?

Don't be naive enough to think that the mega-industry rules that span the globe are somehow not relevant in Australia. If it were as simple as neither Ford nor Holden are prepared to break first, I'm sure a deal would have been struck long before now.

[4Vman]

Here's some food for thought.. Toyota, the worlds most fluid automotive manufacturer recently "boasted" internally that they averaged globally about USD$2000 profit per car sold....
If Ford spent 10mil on its direct motorsport involvement and another 5 mil in associated motorsport related advertising how many extra cars would they need to sell, based on Toyota's "boasted" margin to just cover that motorsport involvement?

Most marketing people will tell you that you need to get atleast 1.5 times your investment back to justify it...

Remember FPV sell about 2500 cars a year....

By the way, i totally agree with the principle of showcasing your brand, especially from FPV's perspective.. but the numbers are hard to justify when you look at them objectively...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by lwsjss

Bathurst would be relevant if they were racing the actual road cars. Make it so that the only modifications allowed were compulsory safety measures and open it to all makes and models. Sure there might be some very clear winners that drastically smash the field, but atleast we'd know how the cars actually compare to each other.

Agreed. Would also be more interesting if the driver came in because of a problem with his Ford and was told by the Pit Crew that "they all do that" and was told his warranty was void anyway, because he lowered the car.

The eventual winner for Ford was a car not raced by it's driver, who was unaware his car had been shipped to Bathurst, but by a couple of apprentices from Sinclair Ford, taking it for an extended test drive.

Dan

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's some food for thought.. Toyota recently "boasted" internally that they averaged globally about USD$2000 profit per car sold....
If Ford spent 10mil on its direct motorsport involvement and another 5 mil in associated motorsport related advertising how many extra cars would they need to sell, based on Toyota's "boasted" margin to just cover that motorsport invlovement?

Remember FPV sell about 2500 cars a year....

By the way, i totally agree with the principle of showcasing your brand, especially from FPV's perspective.. but the numbers are hard to justify when you look at them objectively...

FPV would probably be better off with a Mazda style "Road Show" where they took a selection of FPV product to each dealer and gave hassle free test drives of the cars.

Would mean a heck of a lot more for me. I bought my MPS 6 after testing driving one during these roadshows. I found the chance to drive the whole range or at least what I was interested in, back to back very worthwhile.

There was no high pressure salesman or anything. You turned up, had a look, said what you were interested in and got the keys for a test drive.. Great PR and two years later I had a car because of that drive experience.
It really helped to get the sale for them.

Dan

[FordFalconBF]

I have really gone off V8 Supercars.. and the only thing remotely close to a true V8 production car race in the V8 Utes...

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's some food for thought.. Toyota, the worlds most fluid automotive manufacturer recently "boasted" internally that they averaged globally about USD$2000 profit per car sold....
If Ford spent 10mil on its direct motorsport involvement and another 5 mil in associated motorsport related advertising how many extra cars would they need to sell, based on Toyota's "boasted" margin to just cover that motorsport involvement?

Remember FPV sell about 2500 cars a year....

Back in 2004, HRT were pulling between $30 and $40 million dollars from merchandising. AND that was square in the middle of the "Ambrose era".

Can you imagine what that would have been through to the GFC?

[x series]

Originally Posted by FordFairlaneAU

I have really gone off V8 Supercars.. and the only thing remotely close to a true V8 production car race in the V8 Utes...

I also agree the main talk today with a group of friends was the V/8 utes and the classic cars racings.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Back in 2004, HRT were pulling between $30 and $40 million dollars from merchandising. AND that was square in the middle of the "Ambrose era".

Can you imagine what that would have been through to the GFC?

I find that very hard to believe..... That's $2.00 for every person in Australia..... or $4.00 for every bogan!! LOL

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I find that very hard to believe..... That's $2.00 for every person in Australia..... or $4.00 for every bogan!! LOL

Agreed.

Just to make the point, wasnt Skaife in Debt by a couple of Mil before he sold HRT back to TW? If they made so much money relative to the number of cars they were running, why would he have been in debt?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I find that very hard to believe..... That's $2.00 for every person in Australia..... or $4.00 for every bogan!! LOL

lol, K-Mart Racing Doona Cover anyone?

Originally Posted by drive.com.au circa 2004

Most big teams arrived with two huge transporters, one containing the two race cars and spares – and the other jammed with hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of merchandise to sell to eager fans wanting to make a public bonding statement with their favourite cars or drivers.

Merchandising is now such a huge contributor to many race team budgets that some simply could not survive without it, according to former driver and now commentator for the Ten Network, Neil Crompton.

Advertisement: Story continues below
Industry reports put the Holden Racing Team's turnover from merchandising alone in 2003 at an incredible $30 million-plus.

The HRT catalogue has about 100 lines of apparel. An indication of the sport's broad appeal and the team's status among supporters is that, heading into last Christmas, HRT-branded boxer shorts outsold all other licensed men's jocks.

Five-time Supercar champion and team owner Mark Skaife says some items of HRT gear are now licensed around the country and sold at Kmart and Myer among other major chains, and apparel is available at Holden dealers.

The team name and colours are on merchandise as diverse as remote-control model cars and doona covers.

By mid-year there will be seven franchised Lion's Den retail outlets in shopping centres such as Westfield of Parramatta, and by 2005 there will be three more. At HRT, it is believed, only Holden and Mobil tip more money into the team's racing budget than the merchandising department.

Cleverly, HRT changes the design of its strip every year, obliging the diehards of the so-called "red army" to fork out for the new season's fan uniform.

"As well as being a huge part of our business, merchandising works as a team-building process between the team and Holden, and our supporters," Skaife says. And demand for apparel is directly tied to success on the track: "Race fans like to wear the uniform of winners ..."

Ford Performance Vehicles boss David Flint concurs: "Success on the track leads to more sales of merchandise."

Flint says merchandising is strategically very important, because sponsorship deals can be fragile. Two-thirds of his race budget comes from sponsorship and the rest from sales of caps and T-shirts.

Flint says he is striving to increase the input from merchandising to two-thirds of the budget "so I'm not at the beck and call of sponsors if they have a bad year".

Despite the success and popularity of other race teams, HRT apparel remains by far the most sought-after in local motorsport.

Ford was slow to realise the potential of merchandising but is now going all out to spread the blue-oval gospel. Marcos Ambrose's success in last year's championship helped the Ford faithful to find their voice (and wallets) again.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Back in 2004, HRT were pulling between $30 and $40 million dollars from merchandising. AND that was square in the middle of the "Ambrose era".

Can you imagine what that would have been through to the GFC?

So money went to HRT to fund their race cars. (Actually on the V8xtra show they say that half a mill (that would be profit) is merchandise sales).

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GTP006

lol, K-Mart Racing Doona Cover anyone?

LOL, no doubt its big business and large turnover, and a sourse of income for the teams, but the margins would be tight..

[xls3v]

anyone know if the s/c gs ute will make the ute class?

[Scott]

^^ Hope so. Even though they flatten the tunes, it would be nice if our boys had the toque to play with.

[WMD351]

Are Ford and Holden really in a viable business anyway or only propped up by taxpayer dollars ?