Jaguar XFR v BMW M5 v MB E63 AMG

[grandpa_spec_F6]

AMG, pure car porn.

[Cambo351]

Tata....of course!

I think you might find, that the whole Supercharged R Series of cars was first developed under Ford's ownership....

And that the XFR was in development well before JLR was sold to Tata.

But i'm probably wasting my breath...

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Cambo351

But i'm probably wasting my breath...

Yep you are, you'll come to know that he hates anything British or anything even remotely related, from football to F1 to cars.



As for any of these cars, I'm sure most people would be happy with a free one of any of them for five years.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Yep you are, you'll come to know that he hates anything British or anything even remotely related, from football to F1 to cars.



As for any of these cars, I'm sure most people would be happy with a free one of any of them for five years.

Well its always open season on gm on here, so why not have a joke about Jaguar?

[Bonn]

JAG!
XJR & DB7 were both developed around the time of Ford's aquisition.
DB7 was developed by Tom Walkinshaw Racing, and features nearly all XJS chassis/floorpan/suspension.

It'd be superb if someone (with funding) started a V8 Supercar COTF team, using XF's.
Think about it - 4 doors, 5 litre donk - would need to be naturally aspirated....
Cheers
Bonn
FG XR8, '89 XJS Coupe', BMW 530i Touring

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

As for any of these cars, I'm sure most people would be happy with a free one of any of them for five years.

Absolutly !!!! but it would be fun deciding
I think if you put a gun to my head, so to speak I'd have to go with the Jaguar XFR, its just such a beautiful car and the fact that its still made in England does something for me. Never really liked the shape of the current E Series Merc, the sooner they morph it into a smaller shaped S Class the better I reckon.
To me the Jag seems to be more than the sum of the parts, on a strictly analytical basis..sure the other two might be faster, handle a touch firmer and better when you're getting up them, but settle back into the beautiful Cat, turn the Bowers and Wilkens 1200 watt 17 speaker audio system on and cruise on down the highway and I reckon that would be absolute automotive bliss

[Rodp]

AMG without question. Eyed off a black one at Peter Warrens when I dropped off my car this morning. Will be back with a wad o' cash tomorrow after I win tonight.

[Bossxr8]

The fake exhaust note on the M5 thats piped through the speakers is a bit of a cruel joke after previous naturally aspirated M's delivered such music from the pipes.

[mik]

I like the old tradional jag values that I assume the current one would still have a measure of and the fact it's a bit less overloaded weth techno crap appeals to me , the amg I would'nt knock back either, i'd probably go the jag first, amg followed by beemer last, is it just me , I just don't get impressed with how good a car drifts, i'd much rather see dry track times with no drifting.

[JG34JA]

Jaguar. The Jag was always something special, from my first memories. No matter how precise, technical, accomplished and superb the others are, they are not a Jag.

[tranquilized]

God damn the Mercedes is butt ugly, inside and out. Its the BMW at the top by a mile IMO, then the Jag just because it looks so good, then the Merc just because it looks so bad.

[NX74205]

I'd get the Merc, because I'm quite a fan of the brand. That it sounds the best is a bonus.

BMW then Jag for 2nd and 3rd choices.

[Cambo351]

Originally Posted by Bonn

It'd be superb if someone (with funding) started a V8 Supercar COTF team, using XF's.
Think about it - 4 doors, 5 litre donk - would need to be naturally aspirated....

With you 100% on this, the XF would be a perfect fit to V8SC...

Only sticking point might be Ford. Since all the JLR engines are still being produced in Ford's Bridgend plant (albeit in a separate, dedicated workshop) but if it was a privateer outfit then politically no problem?

[TheSneakiness]

None because I would have to hand it back.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Heard an Jag the other week, sounded DAMN nice, heard an AMG today in the CBD with what I assume was a full exhaust on it... the 'echo' effect in the city is mind blowing, I had an ear-gasm with the note that exploded out the quad exhaust pipes

[F6E]

Mmmmm ... Tough one, after owning a E60 M5 I should lean to the F10 M5 but in agreeance with the masses I think "M" lost the plot a bit with this car ( admitabdly under pressure from emissions, fuel economy, etc,). Unlike previous M5's the engine is not bespoke but is shared across the BM range in various states of tune.
Haven't driven one yet, closest is a 550i & 650i ( same ttv8 but @ 300kw although the tuners are already easily eclipsing M5 outputs with this engine sort of: why buy a F6 when you can replicate/improve on it with a XR6T ? ).

So for me,
1. Jag, purely for the design/looks/style/'modern-ness'
2. M5, awesome GT, handling, balance, the badge has super car cred', .
3. AMG, old mans car, sounds great but ugly inside and out. ( I'm old, but will never be 'Merc old' ! )

My 2c

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Cambo351

With you 100% on this, the XF would be a perfect fit to V8SC...

Only sticking point might be Ford. Since all the JLR engines are still being produced in Ford's Bridgend plant (albeit in a separate, dedicated workshop) but if it was a privateer outfit then politically no problem?

Interesting - and have learnt something.
Didn't realise the 5 litre powerhouse donks were still Ford produced, but should not be a problem. In fact, a positive! Privateers are the future.

O.K. Fess up time...am currently putting an XJR Motor in my XJS (have DB7 rims with tyres mounted) so will be able to report back on these disparate Ford products, when further news comes to hand (dyno day is Thursday).
Kuhl
Bonn

[Cambo351]

Just to be clear, while the AJ-133 5.0L's are built in the Ford plant, they are 100% JLR product, with no parts interchangeability with a Ford V8.

Sounds like an interesting project with your XJS, can you make a separate thread on that one?

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by Cambo351

Just to be clear, while the AJ-133 5.0L's are built in the Ford plant, they are 100% JLR product, with no parts interchangeability with a Ford V8.

Sounds like an interesting project with your XJS, can you make a separate thread on that one?

Yes, always understood. the ownership was as far as the influence went (from an observer's viewpoint).
Thanks for the encouragement. Will start a thread for sure (it's been 21 months - the electronics/comms are a nightmare).

[SteveJH]

I've been half tempted to buy an XJS and slowly improve it over time. Keep the V12 but replace all the electronics with a modern Motec or Haltec style ECU.

Replace the three speed auto with a six speed manual.

Add in a decent wheel/tyre/brake setup.....

Would be a unique car to own.

As you can probably guess, i'd take the XFR!!

[EVLKNEVL]

Some pictures:

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I've been half tempted to buy an XJS and slowly improve it over time. Keep the V12 but replace all the electronics with a modern Motec or Haltec style ECU.

Replace the three speed auto with a six speed manual.

Add in a decent wheel/tyre/brake setup.....

Would be a unique car to own.

As you can probably guess, i'd take the XFR!!

A very affordable Bathurst winner, and certainly agree re: transmission. The Turbo 400s just aren't up to it (have actual field data) so looking forward to the 6L80E 4-sp auto, when she's mobile again.
The manual would be a blast, but very narrow footwells....

[Bonn]

Apologies - should read 4L80E (GM 4 speed - yes, i know, GM trans in a Ford-owned product, they did that in 94-97 V12s, and XJR6s)

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

Some pictures:
imageimageimage

OMG That Blue XFR That's just STUNNING !!!!
OTOH there's something that just soooo wrong about the rear end styling of the E series Merc's

[GTP534]

I quite like these Mercs Rodge. Had a good look around both the Merc and Jag at the recent Motor Show here in Sydney. The prices of all 3 are well beyond my means but if I did my first choice would be the Merc; the sound is glorious from the 6.3 donks.

[Rodge]

Hey Jim, I love the 6.3 AMG sound mate, a buddy of mine had the previous model E63 AMG and I totally agree, the sound was to die for, truly the stuff of legend... but I'm not sure how the new twin-turbo 5.5 they've got now sounds. Car advice seem to think its very good. It certainly looks like a smart bit of technology http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/m...ion-v8-engine/

[Wretched]

i've heard the 5.5 in the new AMG CLS, it is a little different but still very brutish.

[Rodge]

If you could chose the new CLS63 AMG instead of the E63, I'm afraid I'd have no choice but to relegate the XFR to a distant 2nd place.

Turn your speakers right up and enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va8RFux4kGY

[Uwish]

Originally Posted by F6E

Mmmmm ... Tough one, after owning a E60 M5 I should lean to the F10 M5 but in agreeance with the masses I think "M" lost the plot a bit with this car ( admitabdly under pressure from emissions, fuel economy, etc,). Unlike previous M5's the engine is not bespoke but is shared across the BM range in various states of tune.
Haven't driven one yet, closest is a 550i & 650i ( same ttv8 but @ 300kw although the tuners are already easily eclipsing M5 outputs with this engine sort of: why buy a F6 when you can replicate/improve on it with a XR6T ? ).

So for me,
1. Jag, purely for the design/looks/style/'modern-ness'
2. M5, awesome GT, handling, balance, the badge has super car cred', .
3. AMG, old mans car, sounds great but ugly inside and out. ( I'm old, but will never be 'Merc old' ! )

My 2c

Same with the E60 M5 I loved that car... ( brothers not mine )
But the new engine is 100x better in torque. And the M5 version has different turbo's and inter-coolers.
When Jag brings out the XFR-S then it will put up a bit of a challenge.
AMG have to give a car with the PP to beat the M5 in its first gen F10.
Bring on teh mid cycle updates

[Chrisosicko]

Have a listen to this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhYhY...e_gdata_player