Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[BENT_8]

The general consensus amongst the workers is that a drop in wages would hurt them as the demise is inevitable.
If its going to happen let it happen is the view.

Now, wether that is a fair assumption is still not clear, so it is a dangerous gamble to make.

Personally, I believe the smartest employee's took the redundancy package.
I say this because it will give them a head start in the job market.
It will be much easier to compete in a market of 400 than 1700.

I heard an employment spokesperson on the radio this morning and the tone of the message was that the current 400 will struggle to find work.

If the whole ship sinks it will be devastating for the local economy.

[Cuyper]

Originally Posted by ratter

well up until recently, commodore has been doing quite well

Plenty of people think they are doing well, have a chest xray and proceed to die in about 3 months. Things can change pretty fast if you are not paying the greatest attention. The local GM (and Ford) had years and years and years notice, neither changed. Unfortunately they have no one to blame other than themselves. On the other hand, I'd happily work on the Holden or Ford line for minimum wage, I'd be a hell of a lot better off than I am right now, they only have to ask and I'll be there. The problem is getting rid of guys that wont do that first.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The general consensus amongst the workers is that a drop in wages would hurt them as the demise is inevitable.
If its going to happen let it happen is the view.

Now, wether that is a fair assumption is still not clear, so it is a dangerous gamble to make.

Personally, I believe the smartest employee's took the redundancy package.
I say this because it will give them a head start in the job market.
It will be much easier to compete in a market of 400 than 1700.

I heard an employment spokesperson on the radio this morning and the tone of the message was that the current 400 will struggle to find work.

If the whole ship sinks it will be devastating for the local economy.

I'm in SE Melbourne and there aint many jobs around (I heard the number is 30% lower than last year on the internet and Centrelink recipients up 20%).
400 'unskilled' people in a city like Adelaide is a lot of people!

[Cuyper]

Originally Posted by EF_6

I'm in SE Melbourne and there aint many jobs around (I heard the number is 30% lower than last year on the internet and Centrelink up 20%).
400 'unskilled' people in a city like Adelaide is a lot of people!

It wont be 400, once you account for halving of the sales in the shops in the area and all the companies that supply Holden. Contractors that keep the rust out of the plant etc etc etc. Be more like 3 jobs for every one that leaves Holden itself.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Cuyper

It wont be 400, once you account for halving of the sales in the shops in the area and all the companies that supply Holden. Contractors that keep the rust out of the plant etc etc etc. Be more like 3 jobs for every one that leaves Holden itself.

Oh great even more jobs to go then!

[Papa Smurf]

I find this rather reprehensible for a company that received Government hand-outs recently and in 1946. GM got GREAT deals from the Federal Government, the NSW, SA and VIC Government as well, closed Pagewood years ago and are now crying poor mouth??

If it wasn't for the fact that this will put so many out of work, I would say Good riddance.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mr Camillo said Holden was trying to cap future voluntary redundancy payouts to 52 weeks.
"That means anyone who has worked for longer than 12 years gets a raw deal. And Holden has a lot of long term staff."

Well I'll be struck down by a feather. Haven't posts on this forum claimed a cap of 12 weeks, 19 weeks, ...
Silly Mr Camillo not knowing redundancy payments were already capped.

[Muzzle]

I replied to a freinds post on facebook a few weeks ago when he was going on about the wonderful new commodore, and I said it wont make any difference they will still go the way of ford and leave country or close altogether, seems like prophetic words.

[jd dad]

No winners here, certainly seems like GM are trying to get out of here as cheaply as possible. Maybe they could agree on some cuts with the proviso that any redundancies are applied at what ever rate they should be on at the time, present wage plus CPI/pr year? If they say wage cuts/freezes will save GM why are they going the redundancy cap anyway? Very sus if you ask me.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by fte50

Nothing insane about it mate - its called progress.
Manufacturers relocating offshore has very very little to do with employee wages & conditions alone

The only 'progress' you'll get is to help send your jobs offshore:-
http://www.fwc.gov.au/awards/tracee/...AG838750-2.pdf

Red tape, nanny stuff, an administrative nightmare. Run, run as fast as you can!

[zilo]

I'm going to miss the rattle of Holden V8 push rods at the lights. ..

[mr smith]

Pay freeze = yes
Short term pay cut = yes
If management believe this will work then no problem in doubling the pay out rates. i.e. 8 weeks per year service uncapped.

This would show good faith in keeping the show going and call out the management if it is a bluff and they are looking at ways to cut their exit costs.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by zilo

I'm going to miss the rattle of Holden V8 push rods at the lights. ..

that rattle is actually your teeth!

[Cuyper]

There's a bloke in my town with a 800 hp small block Torana, the rattle in that case is actually my car falling to bits from his idle pulses at the lights

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by stazza

I don't wish anyone to lose their job either. But it IS going to happen, so I wish holden would just admit it and get it over and done with. They just can't stand to 'lose' against Ford. They are as much of sore losers as their fans are and can't admit the obvious and take it on the chin.

Oh please. You think Holden is in a race to see who can sack the most people and lose the most market share? Because Holden hates Ford being a bigger failure.

Yeah ok.

[Random Ranger]

I hate Holden so F them and hope they F off asap, seems to be a fairly common train of thought in this thread yet again, I hope you blokes with this attitude get shafted by some overseas company making your jobs redundant too. Whether we drive an Aussie built car(preferably a Falcon) or not, IS going to make a huge difference to our kids job prospects in the near future. Less manufacturing and more imports in general is killing our country.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Well I'll be struck down by a feather. Haven't posts on this forum claimed a cap of 12 weeks, 19 weeks, ...
Silly Mr Camillo not knowing redundancy payments were already capped.

I claimed 19 years of service, not 19 weeks.

Asking for a cap at 12 years is well beyond the rest of the industry.

Maybe if Holden want to save costs why don't they stop spending so much damn money on extravagants like motor racing and mega dollar sponsorship of Collingwood AND NRL. Ford cut money from this sort of stuff to reduce costs, but Holden wants to spend, spend, spend and then expect employees to wear pay cuts.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I claimed 19 years of service, not 19 weeks.

Asking for a cap at 12 years is well beyond the rest of the industry.

Maybe if Holden want to save costs why don't they stop spending so much damn money on extravagants like motor racing and mega dollar sponsorship of Collingwood AND NRL. Ford cut money from this sort of stuff to reduce costs, but Holden wants to spend, spend, spend and then expect employees to wear pay cuts.

You say it's a waste of money having your brand out there
Note that brand awareness is more than just TV Commercials

Ford did cut their marketing to save costs which was one of many contributing factors of their demise
What is the point of having a great product if no one knows about it. There are no prizes for keeping your products a secret from those who buy them

[pauljh74]

I can see why the workers voted against the proposed pay cuts. I think Holden will screw them all anyway, pay cuts or no pay cuts. I think I read somewhere the cuts would save $15 million, but weren't they $150 million in the red last year? How do they expect to turn the other $135 million around?

[zilo]

Wonder if holden will be asked to pay back all the industry assistance $$$ they got in recent years?

Mitsubishi had to pay most of it back as I recall?

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

You say it's a waste of money having your brand out there
Note that brand awareness is more than just TV Commercials

Ford did cut their marketing to save costs which was one of many contributing factors of their demise
What is the point of having a great product if no one knows about it. There are no prizes for keeping your products a secret from those who buy them

+1
Dozens of posts on here complaining that Ford didn't market the Falcon... Dozens of posts on here complaining that Holden did market the Commodore and Cruze...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

I can see why the workers voted against the proposed pay cuts. I think Holden will screw them all anyway, pay cuts or no pay cuts. I think I read somewhere the cuts would save $15 million, but weren't they $150 million in the red last year? How do they expect to turn the other $135 million around?

Maybe because what you submit to the tax office isn't always the some one sent in a spreadsheet to HQ.

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by fte50

Nothing insane about it mate - its called progress.
Manufacturers relocating offshore has very very little to do with employee wages & conditions alone

Progress, eh?

Dare you to stand up on a soapbox at the Holden factory gate on their last day and say that!

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Uncle Tone

Progress, eh?

Dare you to stand up on a soapbox at the Holden factory gate on their last day and say that!

They are a business. They will make cars where it is most cost effective. Fair enough. That is progress. Feel sorry for the workers.

The 400 that left have made the right decision. Their payouts will buy them some time to either look for work or retrain. I just hope they aren't like many people out there that have put a rope around their neck by living beyond their means 'cos they needed a modern home and the latest car.

Goodbye Holden. At least be like Ford and be honest about it.

It is over. Stop trying to pretend like you're trying to stay.

[GASWAGON]

Gees VFs might actually become collectable being the last cars off the line very soon in limited build numbers?

[Mack 6]

When the 400 redundancies were offered, more than that applied. One lady actually rang HR in tears and wanted to know why she didn't get a redundancy.

Maybe this time people will realise that they can't have a 6 month holiday on their package and expect to find a job once the money runs out. Job market is a lot tougher than last time there were redundancies!

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Mack 6

When the 400 redundancies were offered, more than that applied. One lady actually rang HR in tears and wanted to know why she didn't get a redundancy.

Maybe this time people will realise that they can't have a 6 month holiday on their package and expect to find a job once the money runs out. Job market is a lot tougher than last time there were redundancies!

Yes, the job market is tougher than the glory days of pre GFC, BUT...there are jobs available if people are prepared to do them...will people 'LOWER' themselves to clean toilets if necessary? Maybe work in a slaughter house? And while I may be lucky not to be in a position to seek out work outside of my comfort zone at the moment, things can change quickly. There are plenty of jobs out there, just not as many in the category that people WANT.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

+1
Dozens of posts on here complaining that Ford didn't market the Falcon... Dozens of posts on here complaining that Holden did market the Commodore and Cruze...

People complain that ford didn't advertise, falcons sell in minuscule numbers, ford closes


People complain that Holden does advertise, commodores sell in minuscule numbers compared to ten-15 years ago, Holden closes...

So what's really to blame here?

Doesn't matter how much you advertise, when the target market is shrinking daily it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that simple answer is, they're not selling because they're not the car people want to buy anymore.


I can see why ford didn't advertise, as much as I don't like it. It would just e pouring more money down the drain.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Yes, the job market is tougher than the glory days of pre GFC, BUT...there are jobs available if people are prepared to do them...will people 'LOWER' themselves to clean toilets if necessary? Maybe work in a slaughter house? And while I may be lucky not to be in a position to seek out work outside of my comfort zone at the moment, things can change quickly. There are plenty of jobs out there, just not as many in the category that people WANT.

You are correct, there are many jobs out there but many people get extra's on top of their wages, things like traveling allowances, meal allowances, working above a certain level etc etc etc, others see this and think they should earn the same sort of dollars, sort of "keeping up with the Jonses" Many people do not want to do basic sort of jobs anymore as they do not pay enough, well for what many workers are expecting/wanting, they have the mentality that the world owes them a living and it shows with what the expect and even how they go about their work.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by ratter

You are correct, there are many jobs out there but many people get extra's on top of their wages, things like traveling allowances, meal allowances, working above a certain level etc etc etc, others see this and think they should earn the same sort of dollars, sort of "keeping up with the Jonses" Many people do not want to do basic sort of jobs anymore as they do not pay enough, well for what many workers are expecting/wanting, they have the mentality that the world owes them a living and it shows with what the expect and even how they go about their work.

Originally Posted by P6LTD351

Yes, the job market is tougher than the glory days of pre GFC, BUT...there are jobs available if people are prepared to do them...will people 'LOWER' themselves to clean toilets if necessary? Maybe work in a slaughter house? And while I may be lucky not to be in a position to seek out work outside of my comfort zone at the moment, things can change quickly. There are plenty of jobs out there, just not as many in the category that people WANT.

Totally agree. I haven't commented on this thread as I was waiting to see if there posts along this level of thinking.

Sadly the aussie mentality is don't settle for less, you deserve it, and im above those menial jobs....etc.

There comes a time when you have to eat humble pie, roll up your sleeves and do the work no one else wants to do to make ends meet. Ive done because I had to not because I wanted to. I lived within my means, did away with personal loans and credit cards, put away my pride, drove a bomb, did away with take out, forgot about lavish material things and did what I could to support my family. Did I like it? No. Could I live and still have 'a life'? Absolutely.im not saying im a saint and need personal reverence, no. Im just saying, Just taking a more prideless, humble approach to life changing situation can make the difference.

Flame away