My massive impact - A real life tale of small car vs large car safety.

[csv8]

Glad you are ok....people knock French cars..but this proves they a well built...

[Wretched]

Terrible accident, glad you're ok but I am sorry to hear about the Megane :(
It just shows how far car safety has come in small cars. A credit to Renault (and other car makers).

[furiousgibbon]

bad situation but good that you got to walk away from it. I don't doubt the safety of small modern hatchbacks for a second, I was very impressed by the crash tests of the mkII Focus when I bought my XR5, and passive safety was one of the reasons I bought my wife a mk6 GTI.

You did get lucky in this situation, as despite the mass differences between the two cars, your Megane probably had more momentum as it was travelling at a higher velocity. If the roles had been switched, I think the Megane would have been a little more crushed. The A pillars in these cars are particularly thick/strong though, so they stand up so some pretty big impacts.

Unfortunately higher mass will always provide some sort of benefit, so I'll continue to crawl to work in a sea of 2000kg+ 4WDs that have never seen the bush.

[Nanoraptor]

For a bit of contrast, mum took her old fairmont GT-alike into the side of a bluebird wagon that turned through a red in front of her.

She managed to skid a fair distance before hitting it in the soft parts (side-on into the back, I believe). She came out of it with a massive diagonal bruise across the front of her.

(The engine and transmission survived too - they've been powering the yellow one in my avatar for 17 years since)


Looked like the below:

[123Cat]

Originally Posted by csv8

Glad you are ok....people knock French cars..but this proves they a well built...

I hope they are well built , my wife is out now in a french 2 cylinder car with no collapsible steering column, she likes stress,

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

I have had a similar situation in the way of someone pulling out in front of me. Was going about 60-65k, and crashed straight into the side of a KIA Sportage. His rear axle was ripped off, all the passenger side doors were sliced into. I walked away with a bruised knee from hitting the bonnet release. He was at fault also. Held up really well for an old car I must say. And glad to see you walked away from an impact like that!

image

EF/ELs were one of the safest cars of their time. Only had slight buckling of the A-pillar, and the driver's door still looks to be openable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjFDGoSFg0

[XR6T0Y]

Drivers door was fine, opened it up and walked to the curb. Passenger side was slightly buckled and wouldn't open more than 1/4 of the way. Engine was still running, just had no radiator left. I'm just glad I didn't have a passenger as they wouldn't have walked away. Front of the car was off it's wheels and it spun about 90 degrees and into another car waiting at the intersection

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Danny

My next weekend car will surely be something modern and 5 star NCAP rating.

My next weekend car will probably be another early seventies Trans Am or Camaro. I care little about BS like ANCAP safety ratings and the people who crap on about then like they are the be all and end all.

I’m glad you weren’t hurt but don’t for a moment think that there aren’t many older cars you would have also walked away from with the same lack of injury.

I’ve seen people survive horrific truck smashes with little more than cuts and grazes, I’ve also seen many fatalities where you’d hardly think that there was any real damage to the trucks involved.

There’s no definite outcome to any vehicle accident, sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw on whether you’re injured or not, regardless of the vehicle you’re in or what its BS ANCAP safety rating is.

Cheers

[DJM83]

Seen the thread title and i kinda had an idea what had happened (knowing you have the Meg). I didnt really wanna see the pictures, but there they are. Good to see you come out ok mate, cars can be replaced but it kinda lays to rest the ol small cras are crap in a crash, yet im sure many folk will say they are.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Danny

Cheap Mate, how lightly did you read my account???

My drivers side corner hit his pax side corner!!

It is ALL there in black and white, what else do you want???

I did NOT hit the door of his car. I hit the passenger side corner, the wheel (of which you can see the circular indent on my bumper) and his bullbar (which you can also see the indent in the bonnet) hit the exact same part of my car (only on my drivers side).

There's no sensationalism here, just fact and real life experience. Tell me more about how my accident went down based on your ye olde worlde assumption..

It's black and white, my front hit his front, he was in a Navara with bullbar (whose whole front corner was taken out, I was in a small Megane, I'm still kicking. End of story.

If you're here to try and tell me that small cars are still unsafe and try and discount my story, kindly visit another thread, I'm sore and tired and not in the mood to be challenged by the AFF keyboard serious crash unit.

EDITED: For my colourful language. I am sorry, I'm just a little irritable :P

Not trying to be a smart ****, however small cars provide limited safety, even with 5 star ratings.

Here is a layman's explanation, http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/ar...arge-cars.html

It's a fact of physics: Larger vehicles are safer than smaller vehicles. But not everyone is cut out to drive a large car. Small cars are less expensive, easier to park and get better fuel economy than larger ones. And with gas prices on an upward creep, consumers shopping for a fuel-efficient vehicle are already gravitating toward smaller cars. But by doing so, will they put themselves at risk in an accident? There's bad news and good news on this front.

The bad news is that smaller, lighter cars are generally not as safe as larger, heavier cars. Large vehicles have longer hoods and bigger crush zones, which gives them an advantage in frontal crashes.

In studies conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), a heavier vehicle will typically push a lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there will be less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on those in the lighter vehicle, according to IIHS.

Improvements in Small Car Safety
The good news is that small cars are safer than ever. Indeed, every vehicle size category has seen a substantial decrease in fatalities over the past six years.

"Historically, the rates of driver deaths per million registered vehicles have been higher for the smaller and lighter vehicles. This was true again in 2011, but the differences were less extreme than they used to be," concluded an IIHS report.

The keys to a car's ability to keep you alive during a crash involve safety equipment, the vehicle's weight and its resistance to rolling over. While small cars don't roll over easily, they lack weight and, until recently, were less likely to have advanced safety features like electronic stability control (ESC) or full side airbags. ESC has become an increasingly common feature over the past few years and is now required standard equipment on every 2012 and newer vehicle. And as of the 2012 model year, side airbags were standard on 84 percent of vehicles.

According to the 2011 IIHS figures, fatalities per million registered vehicles decreased 55 percent for the mini car category and 47 percent for the small car category. There was a 51 percent decrease in fatalities for midsize cars and 45 percent for large sedans.

Smaller cars have benefited from advances in structural materials, says Chuck Thomas, chief engineer of Honda's automotive safety research facility in Ohio.

"There are many new materials that are available to us now, such as hot-press steel, that were not available in the early 2000s," Thomas says. Honda has integrated those materials into its vehicles to improve their structure and keep the space around the occupants protected, Thomas says.

And to help reduce injuries in accidents involving cars of different sizes, Honda in 2005 developed a safety technology called "Advanced Compatibility Engineering" (ACE, now ACEII on newer vehicles), which disperses the impact forces of a frontal collision. On smaller cars with ACE, there is more reinforcement on the upper portion of the hood, where a larger vehicle would be more likely to strike it.

SUVs Are Safer Now
In the SUV category, the fatality rate dropped substantially across all size levels. Midsize and large SUVs fared the best, with 16 and 14 deaths per million, respectively. Midsize SUVs improved by 72 percent from 2005, while large SUVs saw a 71 percent improvement.

SUVs benefit by being taller, and thus are less likely to slide under another vehicle in a crash (a situation called "underride"). But in the past, SUVs had some of the highest death rates because they were prone to rollover crashes, and that tendency outweighed any size advantage.

"The problem with old SUVs [where ESC was an option or not available] is that while they have the advantage of size and weight, that benefit is offset by their greater propensity to roll over in crashes," says Russ Rader, senior vice president of communications for the IIHS. "The rollover problem has been greatly reduced by ESC, which is now standard on all passenger vehicles, and new SUV designs that are more carlike and less top-heavy."

The exception to the bigger-is-better rule comes with pickup trucks, because of their tendency to roll over. Still, ESC has helped decrease the fatality rate in pickups significantly over the past six years, Rader says.

For all categories, it's important to put the fatality figures into perspective. They describe the differences per million registered vehicles, so no matter what size vehicle you are in, your chances of dying are relatively small, while your chances of surviving a crash are improving over time.

"Crash fatality rates for all vehicle sizes are dropping from year to year," said Rader.

Crash-Test Confusion
One thing that can cloud the safety picture for car buyers is the fact that cars of various sizes can win identical safety ratings, making it seem that a small car is just as safe as a large SUV. But it's not so.

The federal government has its Five-Star Safety Ratings, which are available at the Safercar.gov site, administered by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). IIHS does its own crash tests and rates cars from "Good" to "Poor," based on the driver's ability to survive a crash.

It's important for car buyers to keep in mind that these ratings are only useful when comparing cars within the same size class. If a small car has a five-star rating from NHTSA, that doesn't mean it will protect you as well as five-star-rated large sedan. The same holds true for an IIHS "Good" rating.

"The ratings are meant to be used to compare crashes with vehicles of similar size," says Adrian Lund, president of the IIHS. "You can't really go between the segments with these ratings."

IIHS produced this video in 2009 to illustrate the differences in what happens to different-size cars in a crash: The smaller car loses. As Lund says in the video, "While all cars have gotten safer in recent years, you can't repeal the laws of physics."

No crash-test program can cover every car accident scenario, but if you buy a car that scores well in the IIHS and NHTSA tests, your chances for avoiding serious injury or death significantly improve, regardless of the vehicle's size. This is good news for the small-car buyer who is looking for good fuel mileage as well as safety.

But if you were traveling in a car that was rated "Poor" and got hit by a car rated "Good" in an accident that could produce fatalities, you would be four times more likely to be killed than the other driver, according to a 2005 IIHS study. The vehicles compared were of similar size and weight. Numbers from NHTSA also bear this out: The lower a car's crash-test rating, the more likely you are to be seriously injured in an accident.

Old vs. New
To recap: All cars are getting safer, but bigger cars still are safer than small cars. That applies even in a matchup between a new small car and a 5-year-old larger car.

"The bottom line is that bigger and heavier is still better," Rader says. "A heavy, large car from five years ago, given similar safety equipment like side airbags, will be more protective than a 2013 model that is small and lightweight." Because of the tendency to roll over, a 5-year-old SUV would probably trump a new small car only if the SUV had electronic stability control.

[xxx000]

Dan I was speaking to Matt from the Renault forums today about your prang and he said to say hello.

[Pedro]

A lot of hypothetical theories have been posted on this thread about different scenarios involving road crashes, but at the end of the day I think you'd have to agree that today's crumple rate designs are superior to the cars of yesteryear.

If the OP had been driving a 60's Renault Dauphin I think we'd be posting RIP messages.

Coming back from doing the Sprints at Lakeside, I had my one and only accident, since holding a driving licence since 1957, encountering an oil covered road in my BF F6. Having no control, I smashed into a rock wall at 80 kph pushing the left front wheel up to the glove box and bent the firewall back 150 m on the left side, resulting in a write-off. The airbags deployed and I sustained nil injuries apart from some seat-belt bruising.

Had I been driving my 70 GTO, I think it could have been a different story.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Pedro

A lot of hypothetical theories have been posted on this thread about different scenarios involving road crashes, but at the end of the day I think you'd have to agree that today's crumple rate designs are superior to the cars of yesteryear.

So what you’re saying is that no one has ever died in a modern car?

[XR Martin]

Small 5 star car vs large older car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

And a MPV vs large 4x4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbEa3C2vL7U

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

So what you’re saying is that no one has ever died in a modern car?

Don't think anyone is going to argue that.
But there is no denying that with modern technology and research, newer cars are generally built a lot safer for the passengers.
I know there is a million and one variables that can happen in accident, but you cannot honestly think that new cars are no safer than older cars.

Look, I love old cars, they are great, but I am not going to argue that they are as safe as new ones.

[2011G6E]

As long as people don't go stupid about airbags and think they are the solution to everything.
I have a sister-in-law...a nurse...who is positively frightened of cars without airbags. Odd, seeing as how her husband is restoring a 1937 Ford V8 ute which he plans on driving the wheels off once finished. She refuses to consider buying any car unless it has a minimum of six airbags...nothing else matters to her about the car.
She virtually tells us we are dooooooomed for driving around in my 1982 Celica, and the one time she was forced to come with me in our Celica to pick up her Peugeot 307 from a service. She was honestly holding onto the door handle with a death grip and had a frightened look on her face when we got into the traffic in town. It was sad, really.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Don't think anyone is going to argue that.
But there is no denying that with modern technology and research, newer cars are generally built a lot safer for the passengers.
I know there is a million and one variables that can happen in accident, but you cannot honestly think that new cars are no safer than older cars.

Look, I love old cars, they are great, but I am not going to argue that they are as safe as new ones.

Yeah, and I agree with you. I wasn’t saying that newer cars we not safer by a county mile, I was more pointing out that flawed logic behind that BS ANCAP rating and how some people perceive a car to be safer simply because of this.

Many people who I’ve spoken to about this same subject are usually people who can’t drive for ****. Some of these people would make a car 1,000,000 times safer simply by switching to the passenger seat and letting someone else drive.

Let’s face it, if you really wanted to be safe driving around in a car, you’d have a six point cage and a helmet with a HANS device.

What I was simply saying is that when your time’s up, it’s up and it doesn’t matter what you drive.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by cheap

Not trying to be a smart ****, however small cars provide limited safety, even with 5 star ratings.

Here is a layman's explanation, http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/ar...arge-cars.html

It's a fact of physics: Larger vehicles are safer than smaller vehicles. But not everyone is cut out to drive a large car. Small cars are less expensive, easier to park and get better fuel economy than larger ones. And with gas prices on an upward creep, consumers shopping for a fuel-efficient vehicle are already gravitating toward smaller cars. But by doing so, will they put themselves at risk in an accident? There's bad news and good news on this front.

The bad news is that smaller, lighter cars are generally not as safe as larger, heavier cars. Large vehicles have longer hoods and bigger crush zones, which gives them an advantage in frontal crashes.

In studies conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), a heavier vehicle will typically push a lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there will be less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on those in the lighter vehicle, according to IIHS.

Improvements in Small Car Safety
The good news is that small cars are safer than ever. Indeed, every vehicle size category has seen a substantial decrease in fatalities over the past six years.

"Historically, the rates of driver deaths per million registered vehicles have been higher for the smaller and lighter vehicles. This was true again in 2011, but the differences were less extreme than they used to be," concluded an IIHS report.

The keys to a car's ability to keep you alive during a crash involve safety equipment, the vehicle's weight and its resistance to rolling over. While small cars don't roll over easily, they lack weight and, until recently, were less likely to have advanced safety features like electronic stability control (ESC) or full side airbags. ESC has become an increasingly common feature over the past few years and is now required standard equipment on every 2012 and newer vehicle. And as of the 2012 model year, side airbags were standard on 84 percent of vehicles.

According to the 2011 IIHS figures, fatalities per million registered vehicles decreased 55 percent for the mini car category and 47 percent for the small car category. There was a 51 percent decrease in fatalities for midsize cars and 45 percent for large sedans.

Smaller cars have benefited from advances in structural materials, says Chuck Thomas, chief engineer of Honda's automotive safety research facility in Ohio.

"There are many new materials that are available to us now, such as hot-press steel, that were not available in the early 2000s," Thomas says. Honda has integrated those materials into its vehicles to improve their structure and keep the space around the occupants protected, Thomas says.

And to help reduce injuries in accidents involving cars of different sizes, Honda in 2005 developed a safety technology called "Advanced Compatibility Engineering" (ACE, now ACEII on newer vehicles), which disperses the impact forces of a frontal collision. On smaller cars with ACE, there is more reinforcement on the upper portion of the hood, where a larger vehicle would be more likely to strike it.

SUVs Are Safer Now
In the SUV category, the fatality rate dropped substantially across all size levels. Midsize and large SUVs fared the best, with 16 and 14 deaths per million, respectively. Midsize SUVs improved by 72 percent from 2005, while large SUVs saw a 71 percent improvement.

SUVs benefit by being taller, and thus are less likely to slide under another vehicle in a crash (a situation called "underride"). But in the past, SUVs had some of the highest death rates because they were prone to rollover crashes, and that tendency outweighed any size advantage.

"The problem with old SUVs [where ESC was an option or not available] is that while they have the advantage of size and weight, that benefit is offset by their greater propensity to roll over in crashes," says Russ Rader, senior vice president of communications for the IIHS. "The rollover problem has been greatly reduced by ESC, which is now standard on all passenger vehicles, and new SUV designs that are more carlike and less top-heavy."

The exception to the bigger-is-better rule comes with pickup trucks, because of their tendency to roll over. Still, ESC has helped decrease the fatality rate in pickups significantly over the past six years, Rader says.

For all categories, it's important to put the fatality figures into perspective. They describe the differences per million registered vehicles, so no matter what size vehicle you are in, your chances of dying are relatively small, while your chances of surviving a crash are improving over time.

"Crash fatality rates for all vehicle sizes are dropping from year to year," said Rader.

Crash-Test Confusion
One thing that can cloud the safety picture for car buyers is the fact that cars of various sizes can win identical safety ratings, making it seem that a small car is just as safe as a large SUV. But it's not so.

The federal government has its Five-Star Safety Ratings, which are available at the Safercar.gov site, administered by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). IIHS does its own crash tests and rates cars from "Good" to "Poor," based on the driver's ability to survive a crash.

It's important for car buyers to keep in mind that these ratings are only useful when comparing cars within the same size class. If a small car has a five-star rating from NHTSA, that doesn't mean it will protect you as well as five-star-rated large sedan. The same holds true for an IIHS "Good" rating.

"The ratings are meant to be used to compare crashes with vehicles of similar size," says Adrian Lund, president of the IIHS. "You can't really go between the segments with these ratings."

IIHS produced this video in 2009 to illustrate the differences in what happens to different-size cars in a crash: The smaller car loses. As Lund says in the video, "While all cars have gotten safer in recent years, you can't repeal the laws of physics."

No crash-test program can cover every car accident scenario, but if you buy a car that scores well in the IIHS and NHTSA tests, your chances for avoiding serious injury or death significantly improve, regardless of the vehicle's size. This is good news for the small-car buyer who is looking for good fuel mileage as well as safety.

But if you were traveling in a car that was rated "Poor" and got hit by a car rated "Good" in an accident that could produce fatalities, you would be four times more likely to be killed than the other driver, according to a 2005 IIHS study. The vehicles compared were of similar size and weight. Numbers from NHTSA also bear this out: The lower a car's crash-test rating, the more likely you are to be seriously injured in an accident.

Old vs. New
To recap: All cars are getting safer, but bigger cars still are safer than small cars. That applies even in a matchup between a new small car and a 5-year-old larger car.

"The bottom line is that bigger and heavier is still better," Rader says. "A heavy, large car from five years ago, given similar safety equipment like side airbags, will be more protective than a 2013 model that is small and lightweight." Because of the tendency to roll over, a 5-year-old SUV would probably trump a new small car only if the SUV had electronic stability control.

Ronald Montoya Consumer advise editor wrote this article, what conclusive facts did he present to prove these theories? what qualifies him to be an expert on crash tests?

CHEAP you might as well believe in the fairies if you believe this crap.

[BHDOGS]

Did you actually read the article tru blu he just says a big 5 star car beats a small 5 star car which is fact the laws of physics at work more metal to get to u

[2011G6E]

"While all cars have gotten safer in recent years, you can't repeal the laws of physics."

I think that says it all right there. Doesn't matter if your small five star car is filled with air bags...something much larger hits you a good solid impact (not a glancing side blow or an off-center strike which helps dissipate energy away to the sides as the vehicles "bounce" off one another) you're toast.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Danny

The other car? A D40 Navara, with a massive aftermarket bullbar, and big wheels and tyres. thats right, my little Renault hit a Navara near head on at 60-70km/h, and I walked away.

Glad you came out ok, but it's a pity you don't have a pic of the Navara.
I'd like to see how it fared.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Glad you came out ok, but it's a pity you don't have a pic of the Navara.
I'd like to see how it fared.

You wouldnt be insinuating that I am stretching the truth I hope??
Besides, I thought it might be a little bit insensitive to take photos, seeing as how the driver was still strapped into the drivers seat with oxygen mask, neck brace and ecg wires hanging off him while 2 Ambo's worked on him...

Look, people can say what they want, I know what I went though, it is what it is, no gloss, no glitter or sensationalism. I debated with myself whether or not to post this story for this reason. I've laid all out on the table with no bullsh.. Still it seems that some people refuse to beleive it.

In this case, I was in the smaller car that hit a 4x4 front corner to front corner, and I am okay. This is a real life incidence of the EXACT argument about small vs large car situation that small car haters dribble ad nauseum.

I don't care what google or ancap says, and I am NOT saying that a car like a VW Up! would decimate an Audi Q7 head on, but you can't argue with what I experienced. Some people will always feel the need to prove their righteousness, even in the face of SOLID evidence which proves otherwise.

I had hoped this thread would help those with young families or loved ones make an informed safety based decision about a vehicle class which is becoming ever more popular.

Unbeleivable that the usual sh.. stirring arguments are brought up even in the face of this evidence.

To the guys who have wished me well, thanks heaps, I appreciate it so much. I'm so sore and sorry, and I'm having a hard time not being able to do normal things like go for runs, and work. Its awful. I experienced a pretty decent deceleration, I hope none of you ever have to experience it!

[Franco Cozzo]

Go to the doctor and score some time off work

[cheap]

Originally Posted by trublu

Ronald Montoya Consumer advise editor wrote this article, what conclusive facts did he present to prove these theories? what qualifies him to be an expert on crash tests?

CHEAP you might as well believe in the fairies if you believe this crap.

It is not crap, it is physics. FYI, the ANCAP website theories various scenarios where a small 5 star rated car impacts with a variety of other vehicles. Go and read for yourself.

[wranger]

Not to take anything away from your Megane, it's definitely impressive that it fared so well against a 4wd.

But if a 5 star VW Golf has a head on with a 5 star Ranger, I know exactly which I'd prefer to be in.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Danny

In this case, I was in the smaller car that hit a 4x4 front corner to front corner, and I am okay. This is a real life incidence of the EXACT argument about small vs large car situation that small car haters dribble ad nauseum.

Hang on a minute, ol’ mate.

In your own words, the 4WD was hardly moving, therefore the old small car versus large car argument doesn’t apply. Now if the 4WD was coming at you at the same speed and if it hit you on the exact same angle, you wouldn’t be talking about how safe your little car is because you’d be bloody dead, even with 50 airbags and 5 stars.

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by Danny

I had hoped this thread would help those with young families or loved ones make an informed safety based decision about a vehicle class which is becoming ever more popular.

Great thread Danny and thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Mate we didn't realise just how safe new cars were until we saw a horrible accident happen next to our ute while sitting at a set of traffic lights. Won't go into details but basically an old fella in a new suburu liberty turned out of a driveway into the path of a young girl racing up the inside lane to beat everyone off at the lights. She basically ripped the front of his car off. The side impact set off the his side curtain airbags which no doubt helped save his life.

Both cars were absolutely stuffed.

The scary part for us.......it happened next to our car. We were on our way home from the hospital with our brand new baby girl........all 2kg of her, she was 4 days old. The accident happened right outside her door. Thank god the other car didn't swerve into her door. Made us sick.

Your quote above is spot on. Our ute has no airbags but our new vehicle we're getting in 4 weeks does and we feel so much better.

Thanks again for sharing and forget the negativity, lol who cares mate.

Here's a video of an offset crash between a massive Chev 59' bell air and a 2009 Chev Malibu. Chevrolet are basically showing how much safer their vehicles are today.

Cheers mate, hope you get sorted with a newbie soon.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnLx8N0AdQ

[93EB_SXR6]

Sometimes luck works in our favour, sometimes not.

OP, glad you're ok. I've also survived when the odds were stacked severely against me... buy a lottery ticket.

I won't post a photo.

[Madaya]

. He was a queenslander, some bright spark tooted him from behind, and he apparently thought that they were tooting him to turn (and assuming the red arrow didnt apply to him) so in a panic, he turned in front of me.

Tell you what, I ususally avoid tooting other motorists for that exact reason. Now I know the consequences can be potentially disastrous![/QUOTE]

Funny that, I was in QLD last year, Brisbane, and I noted a bit of tooting going on when the lights or arrows turned green = weird. Give the guy time to get 1st gear. Back in pommy land, the lights go red, amber, green, in quick order. Gives the driver time to grab 1st and off you go.
Why Oz gives such the logic he flick beats me. I hate how they turn traffic lights away from the waiting traffic. Some safety idiot thinks it will avoid traffic light drags = duhh. Idiots will always drag, but it would give us folk time to look left and right and proceed on the green..
Glad you are okay.
The old fart in the 4 wheel drive,,, did he have any off the beaten track scars that verified his need for a 4wd? Probably not.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Madaya

. He was a queenslander, some bright spark tooted him from behind, and he apparently thought that they were tooting him to turn (and assuming the red arrow didnt apply to him) so in a panic, he turned in front of me.

Tell you what, I ususally avoid tooting other motorists for that exact reason. Now I know the consequences can be potentially disastrous!

Funny that, I was in QLD last year, Brisbane, and I noted a bit of tooting going on when the lights or arrows turned green = weird. Give the guy time to get 1st gear. Back in pommy land, the lights go red, amber, green, in quick order. Gives the driver time to grab 1st and off you go.
Why Oz gives such the logic he flick beats me. I hate how they turn traffic lights away from the waiting traffic. Some safety idiot thinks it will avoid traffic light drags = duhh. Idiots will always drag, but it would give us folk time to look left and right and proceed on the green..
Glad you are okay.
The old fart in the 4 wheel drive,,, did he have any off the beaten track scars that verified his need for a 4wd? Probably not.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what are you trying to say regarding green lights and delay when grabbing the first gear - most cars in Oz are auto transmission ...
Other thing is we don't verify anyone's needs for anything including the need for 4wd - it is a free country and people choose what they like and need.