Holden 2013 Loss

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

The ignorance of people with how Holden has run their buissiness in aus astonishes me. It truley does. I could write a book.

And it's simply summed up by how Holden made their last descissions......the ones based on trying to blackmail the aus govco for as many dollars as possible despite being informed by head office they were closing down. One of many poor descissions and attitudes shown by a company supposedly living on borrowed time and no foreseeable light at the end of the tunnel.
Ford slowly wound things up, seeing the future and acting responsibly......yet Holden stayed on money spending sprees and acted like true bogans.

And in 5 years it will all be gone and no one will give a **** who did what, big deal.
Neither company is worth a pinch of **** to Australia now.

Do you honestly believe people buy into your 'Holden ripped us off, Ford are angels' propaganda, seriously.
No one cares man, they are corporate giants, they do this stuff for a living.
No need to take it personal, they aren't pioneers.

School yard ****.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And in 5 years it will all be gone and no one will give a **** who did what, big deal.
Neither company is worth a pinch of **** to Australia now.

Do you honestly believe people buy into your 'Holden ripped us off, Ford are angels' propaganda, seriously.
No one cares man, they are corporate giants, they do this stuff for a living.
No need to take it personal, they aren't pioneers.

School yard ****.

Thanks for showing an example of my ignorance point. No one cares hey?
Your not a hippy by any chance are you? And I certainly didn't say fords a shining example....but they handled it in a far more responsible way!
If I had the will I'd list it all again for your benifit, but I'm sure you'll find it in my post history listed many times, that is if you even give a rats about Australia.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Thanks for showing an example of my ignorance point. No one cares hey?
Your not a hippy by any chance are you? And I certainly didn't say fords a shining example....but they handled it in a far more responsible way!
If I had the will I'd list it all again for your benifit, but I'm sure you'll find it in my post history listed many times, that is if you even give a rats about Australia.

Sorry, I mean no one cares about your plight, I don't care if you think Holden sucks, they probably do.

I've read enough of your posts on this topic to know your views.
We understand that you hate Holden, but to continually regurgitate the same old rubbish does your credibility no favour.

For the record, 1TUFFUTE hates Holden, seconded, carried, next.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Ford slowly wound things up, seeing the future and acting responsibly......

What's responsible about taking a slab of taxpayer cash to develop a model that doesn't fulfil government buying criteria, and make absolutely NO EFFORT to market it to private buyers? Why take money just because its available if you're not going to do anything worthwhile with it? Ecoboost was a giant waste.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

What's responsible about taking a slab of taxpayer cash to develop a model that doesn't fulfil government buying criteria, and make absolutely NO EFFORT to market it to private buyers? Why take money just because its available if you're not going to do anything worthwhile with it? Ecoboost was a giant waste.

Ignorance is bliss.
Holden takes twice as much, does nothing of note(unless you think the lpg commadore rehash of ancient tech great)....yet ford uses there's to do ECOBOOST/diesel terri and ecolpi.
And ford did advertise them....just not the way it's always been done. Internet has taken over print media and is booming compared with TV rights. Ford used many advertising campaigns for these models.......despite having a VERY small advertising budget I think that's at least a fair go.

So yes building WORLDCLASS Eco cars in AUSTRALIA is very responsible. And the govco had every chance to use the ford Eco products, it was a very simple "guideline" that was missed.....yet it was still it ok to then go and buy worse suburus and hiluxs

So rereading your post I find you are extremely uneducated on this whole subject. Feel free to research the facts.....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sorry, I mean no one cares about your plight, I don't care if you think Holden sucks, they probably do.

I've read enough of your posts on this topic to know your views.
We understand that you hate Holden, but to continually regurgitate the same old rubbish does your credibility no favour.

For the record, 1TUFFUTE hates Holden, seconded, carried, next.

Hey? Sorry if I offended you in any way!
All I ever do is comment based on facts.....I'll expand on anything you think is wrong.

I think your confusing my passion for ford for something else.....and yes I'll defend my comments when attacked!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

And ford did advertise them....just not the way it's always been done.

Effectively?

Spend hundreds of millions developing cars, wont spend $1mil to let people know they exist. that's acting responsibly?

So yes building WORLDCLASS Eco cars in AUSTRALIA is very responsible.

Not if you have no intention of selling them. At the end of the day, it ended up being an exercise in keeping the engineers busy.

I'm not defending Holden, but you seem to have taken the position that Holden did nothing right, while Ford did nothing wrong.

Feel free to research the facts.....

Would love to know where you're getting yours from...

[mik]

Whatever the case these local car makers for many of us gave us a motoring history and put a lot into australia whether people want to acknowledge it or not , and that includes putting bread and butter on the table, I for one will be sad to see them shut up shop.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

Effectively?

Spend hundreds of millions developing cars, wont spend $1mil to let people know they exist. that's acting responsibly?



Not if you have no intention of selling them. At the end of the day, it ended up being an exercise in keeping the engineers busy.

I'm not defending Holden, but you seem to have taken the position that Holden did nothing right, while Ford did nothing wrong.



Would love to know where you're getting yours from...

You seem to be arguing that fords internal problems and lack of foresight are somehow the same or equal as holdens blackmail attempts and lieing directly to their employees among other things.
I'm sorry but did ford aus do anything as low as this?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

You seem to be arguing that fords internal problems and lack of foresight are somehow the same or equal as holdens

really? I never said anything about Holden. I simply pointed out that Ford haven't been acting as responsibly as you say.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

really? I never said anything about Holden. I simply pointed out that Ford haven't been acting as responsibly as you say.

Yes it appears you only want to be argumentative, as you think me pointing out people are ignorant about how Holden have conducted themselves, is the same as calling ford blemish free!!!

Instead you act exactly like what my original comment was, and show total ignorance to the way Holden have conducted themselves by indicating you think ford deserves a tar and feathering for conducting buissiness poorly!!! And yet you still pay zero mention of how Holden has acted in a terrible manner to the public and their employees......hence showing how ignorant you are to the fact!!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

Effectively?

Spend hundreds of millions developing cars, wont spend $1mil to let people know they exist. that's acting responsibly?
Would love to know where you're getting yours from...

If your sincere about how clever ford has been with advertising here's an article from where it started about 3yrs ago. Look up...

"7 secrets to fords social media success". (Can't post link on iPad)

They got more coverage and positive market reaction without spending a SINGLE dollar....then they did with hundreds of millions in normal advertising methods for the new ford fussion at the time.this is exactly the method ford aus used for all it's new models. I even remember seeing ECOBOOST on the ford v8supercars!

That's an example where I get my info from!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Yes it appears you only want to be argumentative, as you think me pointing out people are ignorant about how Holden have conducted themselves, is the same as calling ford blemish free!!!

I have no issue with you calling out Holden. The issue is you cite Ford as an example of how it should be done. That position is quite frankly laughable. If you want people to take you seriously, try showing some objectivity.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

That's an example where I get my info from!

But we're talking about THIS market. How have their efforts here compared? No point quoting sources that aren't relevant to this discussion.

EcoLPI and EcoBoost, despite the investment in tech, made up only 16% of Falcon sales last time I checked. And the figure for Ecoboost, when you remove Ford employee purchases from the equation, is downright embarrassing. Whatever worked for Fusion, clearly hasn't for EcoLPI/Ecoboost, assuming it was even applied to anywhere the same extent.

Why go through all the work of developing product to simply not bother trying to sell it? My biggest complaint about Ford's strategy is that it seems to be a company run by engineers. They design and build good product, but its not what the market is asking for. And rather than build what the market asks for, they try to convince the market that its wrong and that it should think differently. Its a fundamentally flawed strategy.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

I have no issue with you calling out Holden. The issue is you cite Ford as an example of how it should be done. That position is quite frankly laughable. If you want people to take you seriously, try showing some objectivity.

And who else in Australia am I supposed to compare with....plus it's the Australian ford forums.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by b0son

But we're talking about THIS market. How have their efforts here compared? No point quoting sources that aren't relevant to this discussion.

EcoLPI and EcoBoost, despite the investment in tech, made up only 16% of Falcon sales last time I checked. And the figure for Ecoboost, when you remove Ford employee purchases from the equation, is downright embarrassing. Whatever worked for Fusion, clearly hasn't for EcoLPI/Ecoboost, assuming it was even applied to anywhere the same extent.

Why go through all the work of developing product to simply not bother trying to sell it? My biggest complaint about Ford's strategy is that it seems to be a company run by engineers. They design and build good product, but its not what the market is asking for. And rather than build what the market asks for, they try to convince the market that its wrong and that it should think differently. Its a fundamentally flawed strategy.

Are you serious? That is the very start of a global ford advertising overhaul. That is the very EXACT SAME model used here in Australia. There have been so many media examples of ford advertising those particular products in question it's not even funny. Facebook,utube,competitions and so on. It's not the 90s anymore....comon! And seeing as ford had a very restricted budget I think it deserves a little bit of respect as a very clever and unique way of at least trying to sell cars.
And don't talk to me about what the market wants all of a sudden......because all large cars have taken a big hit over the years.
Tell me when did you last see a tv add for the Holden LPG commadore. And they spent big dollars on that just like ford did. They all had too.
But guess what....they don't sell jack squat LPG commadores either!(or the "Australian" hatchback cruise.

But let's stay on topic here......ford adjusts and makes the most of its zero funding by using clever advertising,utube,tv shows and comps(like the voice). What did Holden do? Do you know? They dive into a multi year bazillion dollar NRL deal.(with no solid future)

And no matter WHAT anyone says.....ford has still come out in less debt, despite selling less cars(and apparently having ZERO advertising) so I'm not sure where your going with this.

[Cj1978]

lol, just to stir the pot, ford ecoboost (designed in Australia, keeping local jobs etc) has been used world wide by Ford and it's used in multiple model cars not just falcons, the engine is a huge success for Ford.

Unfortunately the ecolpi will not get the same roll out as the ecoboost, but it was a requirement of the government to have an LPG alternative, so instead of Ford slapping a bog standard LPG conversion on a falcon like Holden did with theirs, they radically redesigned and produced a far better LPG option only to have the government stick their nose up at it.

I watch about 1-2 hours of TV a week yet I have seen ads for both cars, maybe I was just lucky and got to see the one ad ford choose to run.

Yes both Holden and ford took funds from the gov, but Holden had a complete refit of one of their plants covered by the government for the production of the commadores even when they were already saying the future in Australia was unlikely.

So having a dig at ford for using government money to develop technologies that will continue to profit ford Australia even after they stop making cars here is a bit how you going.

[Iggle Piggle]

Did you have to pay the Mining tax to dig up this thread?

Didn't know Ecoboost was designed in Australia? I thought there have been different varieties of Ecoboost in use overseas for years before Ford Aus spend the Govco money you refer to on getting an overseas engine into the Falcon. While no doubt it is a good combination I am glad it did not take off if that means it did not cannibilise I6 sales and the engine factory stayed open as a result.

Not sure how the ecolpi will make Ford Australia money going forward, and any Ecoboost sale that is not a Falcon is not a return on the Govco money either.

It is crap that people even argue over this stuff, even worse when their argument is crap.

[Cj1978]

I'm so glad you could share your intellectual insight, please tell me more.

[BHDOGS]

dont worry about iggle he likes wheels magazine and thinks liking all cars is cool dont listen to him.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by mik

Whatever the case these local car makers for many of us gave us a motoring history and put a lot into australia whether people want to acknowledge it or not , and that includes putting bread and butter on the table, I for one will be sad to see them shut up shop.

Whichever side of the fence, we do have to say thankyou to both Holden and Ford over the years for the memories and their investment into manufacturing and engineering cars unique to our miniscule market, some good some bad, but they tried... What fun is driving vehicles that can be found everywhere else in the world? Sad to see either go. At least neither escorted redundant workers from the premises with security guards *cough toyota...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Where's all the clowns who've been saying ford have been doing wrong all these years now? Holden sucks even more despite selling more and advertising things no one wants...it appears lol

Yeah Ford losing the odd million less and going out of business faster, just goes to show how clever Ford Australia is.

What I want to know is where are all the clowns on here that kept arguing that the less Falcons Ford sold the more profit they made? The same article says that this is the lowest sales year for Falcon in over two decades. Shouldn't that mean Ford Australia are making record profits? Turns out they are a mass manufacturer after all - just like Holden.

I guess those same lot will now claim Mustang will turn things around and drive Ford to number one. All with the same crap dealer network and corporate culture that ensured Falcon was first to go.

[ivandrago]