Who killed the car industry?

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

The Car industry has died for a number of reasons. Back in the 70's unions got unrealistic pay rises. It now costs far too much to build Cars here. The sad thing is Aussie Cars have evolved to be very good, and well suited to our conditions. There is also an amount of snob value to own a Euro. We were once leaders in radio, once we lose an industry it is gone forever. We cant support an industry that relies on hand-outs and makes sub standard products, but we also cant be at mercy of OS suppliers either. Where do we go with things ? Do we keep making stuff that may not be cutting edge or send our money OS. My Car runs on Gas, we have plenty here so I would be happy to keep it forever. We need to look at fuel as well as our Car industry, electric is fine for a City commute but what about farm and mining machinery ?

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

We need to look at fuel as well as our Car industry, electric is fine for a City commute but what about farm and mining machinery ?

Run a longer extension cord from the laundry??

[zilo]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

Hello,

blah...blah...blah.... electric is fine for a City commute but what about farm and mining machinery ?

Here's a thought for you to ponder....

Let's keep using diesel and petrol and LPg for farm and machinery use.

let's just use electric cars for commuting...even interstate with fast charge stations.


That way...fossil fuels will last.....FOREVER.


Now how's that for a novel idea?

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by zilo

Here's a thought for you to ponder....

Let's keep using diesel and petrol and LPg for farm and machinery use.

let's just use electric cars for commuting...even interstate with fast charge stations.


That way...fossil fuels will last.....FOREVER.


Now how's that for a novel idea?

Am I missing something here? Especially here in Vic, electricity is generated from brown coal.

[neptune blue]

This is simple, redicilous pay and conditions, poor productivity, uncaring workforce, union thuggery and demands and the final nail in tne coffin, Australians don't buy australian built cars which = low or no profits. No profits = no business

[b0son]

As much as I'd like to pin the blame solely on unions, they simply reflect the will of their members, and the car makers didn't have to agree to union demands (Holden in particular, IIRC, were the most recent maker to sign off an overly generous EBA).

Australia is unfortunately a country who simultaneously want all the benefits of a free market, while getting all the protections socialism affords. It beggars belief that we think pay/conditions should only ever improve, even if the market for a given product goes backwards.

We've seen this reflected in not just the car industry, but in aviation, food manufacture, etc. The reality of global competition is that wages have to come down to meet the market. Our unwillingness to do so, and instead force manufacturers to close, rather than offer those jobs to people who would be willing to do them (in in the vast majority of cases, cheaper wages would still be well above minimum wage) puts the blame on all of us.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Am I missing something here? Especially here in Vic, electricity is generated from brown coal.

solar panels can do the job.

and a million homes now have solar in australia.

problem solved.

6c feed in tarriff or charge an electric car...its a no brainer really

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by zilo

solar panels can do the job.

and a million homes now have solar in australia.

problem solved.

6c feed in tarriff or charge an electric car...its a no brainer really

keep pumping out your good news

base load panel wind farm

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

There is also wind and other means to generate electricity. The biggest problem with Electric is the batteries. If more Cars run on Gas, and are made here we are self sufficient and our money stays here.

[Express]

Originally Posted by zilo

solar panels can do the job.

and a million homes now have solar in australia.

problem solved.

Not for us.

The hail last Friday took mine out and left a nice roof fountain in its place.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

This is simple, redicilous pay and conditions, poor productivity, uncaring workforce, union thuggery and demands and the final nail in tne coffin, Australians don't buy australian built cars which = low or no profits. No profits = no business

Complete and utter crap. Wages only make up 6% of a cars cost, and we autoworkers make less here than they do in the US and Germany, I have seen the figures. As for claimed union thuggery, what utter garbage. 15 years and not one strike. And once again your claims of an uncaring workforce are total rubbish. Ever spent your time in one of the factories. You are very wrong.

Its economy of scale, high electricity, OHS and red tape costs and all the other costs associated with running the factories these days that killed it along with falling sales. Employee wages would be about number 50 on the list.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by zilo

how many middle fingers am I holding up?

wow

you got me

keep up the solid posts

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by b0son

As much as I'd like to pin the blame solely on unions, they simply reflect the will of their members, and the car makers didn't have to agree to union demands (Holden in particular, IIRC, were the most recent maker to sign off an overly generous EBA).

Australia is unfortunately a country who simultaneously want all the benefits of a free market, while getting all the protections socialism affords. It beggars belief that we think pay/conditions should only ever improve, even if the market for a given product goes backwards.

We've seen this reflected in not just the car industry, but in aviation, food manufacture, etc. The reality of global competition is that wages have to come down to meet the market. Our unwillingness to do so, and instead force manufacturers to close, rather than offer those jobs to people who would be willing to do them (in in the vast majority of cases, cheaper wages would still be well above minimum wage) puts the blame on all of us.

Yeah ok, so pay goes backwards or stays stagnant. That's fine in a wonderland, but when utilities keep rising, groceries keep rising, so on and so forth, who pays the bills?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Yeah ok, so pay goes backwards or stays stagnant. That's fine in a wonderland, but when utilities keep rising, groceries keep rising, so on and so forth, who pays the bills?

Did Qantas maintenance workers get paid well above a typical aviation maintenance award? Yes (close to double, as a friend found out when he was retrenched from Qantas and went to HDH to do much the same work). Do car industry workers get paid above a typical manufacturing award? Yes, substantially more.

Where is the sense in forcing manufacturers to keep paying more than a job is worth? Are you saying that if the alternative to reducing wages (while still being a lawful wage) is closing a workplace altogether, that is acceptable? I'm sure there are plenty of workers who would happily accept the job, were it offered.

[Adamz Ghia]

Compare our aviation wages with those of other airlines, and do the same with auto workers. I think we compare quite well. It just so happens I have dealings with a couple of QANTAS workers, one in maintenance and one in a procurement role, and with the standards that company works to the workers deserve the pay they get.

[b0son]

While the market is willing to pay, that's all well and good, but when it's not? You never answered my question ... is workplace closure more acceptable than a decline in wages, even if said wages will be lawful?

[Bossxr8]

How does it even matter, if the public aren't buying the cars then it means absolutely zero. Even if the workers were on minimum wage it would have had zero bearing on what has happened.

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

A mistake made by GMH and Ford is no diesel. The Japanese 1 tonners have Tax benefits, but fleets like Diesel for the range amongst other things. You have to give people what they want, as well as the right product. Farms and Mining site have Diesel, why not a Falcon that runs on it ? Taxis ? There was a time when they were all Falcons, not anymore.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

keep pumping out your good news

base load panel wind farm

Keep pumping the neighbour's dog and your uninformed opinion of electric cars.

Some of us can afford better than a Falcon with 300,000 k's on it in case you thought your universe is the norm....

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Yeah ok, so pay goes backwards or stays stagnant. That's fine in a wonderland, but when utilities keep rising, groceries keep rising, so on and so forth, who pays the bills?

Society adapts, people work longer hours, don't complain so much about work and gain better work ethics and become more competitive knowing very well if they don't do their work well, they may not eat. Such it is in Asian nations. Here people get paid to read the newspaper and twiddle their thumbs, or fall asleep on the job, rock up to work 30 mins late and leave 45 mins early. Pretty sure this is how it went down in Greece, and look what happened?

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

The drop in Tariff's is another factor with higher production costs here. It has opened up our market to far too many brands and models. The Government needs to get some smart people and change policy. There is a place for Electric Cars, and cheap ones as a Car to drive to work. The battery costs are the real killer. How about a fuel cell for power to motors ? A large amount of weight can be saved. The Petrol companies will be trying to keep their monopoly, how about ADR's to make Cars dual Fuel and Diesels to be able to run on Canola ? We need to be self sufficient with Fuel as well as Cars. I dont think there will be a " magic fix " we have done it to ourselves. I like Aussie Cars and would like them to still be made, look at Sweden. They sell Cars and Trucks all over the world, yet have half our population.

[danzvtil]

Globalization,GFC and Asia happened. Automotive head offices around the world had to send production to the volume rich Asian nations, GFC forced them to close marginal factories in Australia, they don't let patriotism get in the way of a business decision.