Renault in emissions scandal?

[Carrion]

Fuel needs lead in it again.

[Dr Terry]

Not just 60% more, 60 TIMES THE LIMIT.

Say the limit of NOx is 90 ppm (parts per million) of the total gas volume, they are saying these engines emit 5400 ppm.

The old engines probably produced say 400 ppm, but by re-tuning to increase power, torque & economy, the big loser was the NOx.

This is the issue, if VW were to re-tune these to get the NOx within the required limits, then power & economy will suffer & the owners will have a good case against VW for false advertising etc.

These figures are not real, I'm just using them to illustrate that it it 60 times (6000%) not just 60%.

Dr Terry

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Not just 60% more, 60 TIMES THE LIMIT.

Say the limit of NOx is 90 ppm (parts per million) of the total gas volume, they are saying these engines emit 5400 ppm.

The old engines probably produced say 400 ppm, but by re-tuning to increase power, torque & economy, the big loser was the NOx.

This is the issue, if VW were to re-tune these to get the NOx within the required limits, then power & economy will suffer & the owners will have a good case against VW for false advertising etc.

These figures are not real, I'm just using them to illustrate that it it 60 times (6000%) not just 60%.

Dr Terry

The thing is has anyone got the info on what the fact's are, because one can say X times over, but that can be grossly misleading.

Their is ppm and the standard is 0.0045 from our ADR 79/03 or Euro 5 for a petrol engine. diesel I don't know.

So 0.0045 + 60x = 0.27 ppm if I am correct, I don't have any Euro 4 figures as I don't think they had brought that test out before then.

There are plenty of people who are blocking off their EGR on diesel engines that I have come across on the web, because of the problems it is causing them with blowing up engines.

I find it hard to believe that a company like VW or any other would have a system that some how blocks off the EGR that is mainly to do with NOx, I would think.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by castellan

But how could it be more than the last euro before the one they have now, don't they pass the one before the new.

I don't know that anybody has looked at the older version, perhaps it has been going on for longer than we think?

The 0.0045 is particulate matter, NOx is 0.06 g/km. The VW's were doing 40 times the US limit (0.043 g/km), or about 1.72 g/km, compared with the current Euro 5 which is 0.18 g/km - still nearly ten times over. The Euro6 standard will be 0.08 g/km - no wonder so few diesels are sold in the US.

1.72 g/km would meet pre-1997 regs for petrol engines, I don't have info for diesels but their limit was probably higher.

[Dr Terry]

This:- http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...ch-nox-238113/

Dr Terry

[Boosted8]

No surprises here, everyone knows the French love to smoke.

[castellan]

If we look at how the ADR27A test we had back in 1976, this passed the test but out on the road it does not come into it so much, because if you were getting up it say, it's gone beyond the test parameters they use, I believe.

So the test even today are done on a Dyno in a lab, not in true reality, I think.

If you hold it flat the EGR does not enter the engine, I think that's correct.
The ADR27A law makes a engine run lean and this must be where the lack of power comes about from, I think.

A HX 5.0L manual has no EGR and it lacks a lot of power over the pre ADR27A, not to mention that the HX auto does have EGR.

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by Carrion

Fuel needs lead in it again.

Agree, our kids are no smarter than previous generations.

[Davehoos]

Originally Posted by castellan

If we look at how the ADR27A test we had back in 1976, this passed the test but out on the road it does not come into it so much, because if you were getting up it say, it's gone beyond the test parameters they use, I believe.

A HX 5.0L manual has no EGR and it lacks a lot of power over the pre ADR27A, not to mention that the HX auto does have EGR.

called a bag test.
the vehicle is driven at variable speeds and sometimes idling-simulated average drive. Wide open throttle never happened on the test I was at and tends to be a look at the power mate situation and not real world tuning.

The factory test had to be load better than the standard to allow for production. My 1985 RB20E 160 000Km aftermarket [cheep] cat passed as if it was a new 2002 Australian car.

most of the lack of power was done by cam and ignition timing, exhaust port shapes and restriction. and carby tuning [progress ports and power valve jet-that where lean spikes comes from as they reduce unburnt fuel]

most of the engines of those days don't run lean but use richer mixture and then after burn unburnt. only a few lean burn vehicles and these vehicles done use egr.. 1993 discovery has no cat or egr in Australia and is measured as a passenger car.