The Eagle has Landed..or The Falcon has plummeted - Page 2

SumoDog68 · 31-03-2016, 09:50 AM

Falcon has interesting history and not every angle of it is fully explained yet. It seems that lightly used Falcon (and other locally made cars) was a great buy -2 yo car for about the half of the new car price. Those buyers are more tolerant of quality and buy on value - on the other hand people who bought new copped horrific resale due to the oversupply of lightly used government cars which were bought by government and fleets at the discounted price anyway. Those two types of buyers meet at the free and open market - new car buyers mostly decide - never again do i want to cop such a loss on a common car and used car buyers lament the fact their supply of near new cars at great prices is going to dry up soon. Fleets are ironically moving onto cars with better resale.
Of course there are many more factors and many more types of buyers - your one model buyers, one brand buyers or high performance enthusiasts , V8 enthusiasts but those are smaller niches compared to mainstream.

Vesper Martini · 31-03-2016, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Territory sales need to be overlaid onto that graph. 2004 just happened to be the year that Territory came out. I'm pretty sure it had some significant impact on Falcon sales, but by the same token it was a defacto Falcon in terms of sales benefits to Ford.

Exactly! the demise of the Falcon was not because people wanted smaller cars. They wanted bigger with 7 seat options.

Territory kicked butt in 04-05 until the rest of the SUV brands took on.

Id like to see that graph too

xr6tjet · 31-03-2016, 10:31 AM

Cars now are merely appliances I totally agree. No character and it is very sad that Australia has shat on it's local car industry. They will regret it one day... I hope.

Lukeyson · 31-03-2016, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Wow, didn't realise Ford sold so many BA's and BAII's from 2002 to 2004. What was it? Advertising, design, power, tech, the colour range?

Had uncle Geoff steering the ship with passion for the brand!

IMO the BEST Ford ad to draw people into the new XR6 Turbo.

So many good and exciting things happening for us Ford fans when the BA came out. Then Ambrose/Ford winning in V8s. Many good memories for me that time !

Ford17 · 31-03-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Territory sales need to be overlaid onto that graph. 2004 just happened to be the year that Territory came out. I'm pretty sure it had some significant impact on Falcon sales, but by the same token it was a defacto Falcon in terms of sales benefits to Ford.

commodorenutt · 31-03-2016, 12:11 PM

I heard this morning that Ford sold something like 300,000 Fusions in the USA last year.
Their population is approx 320 million.
That's 1 Fusion per 1067 people.

Compare that to 2015 Falcon numbers - and a population of approx 24 million.
It becomes 1 Falcon per 3000 people.

To get anywhere near the Fusion numbers per head, we need to go back to 2010, which is when we still had optimism for the local industry.

Shonky. · 31-03-2016, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

How good was the car if it had to rely heavily on fleet sales to survive?

Does that matter?

Still good economic policy and a shed load smarter than other things that the government purse funds

I am happy if a public servant is driving the 3rd best car for purpose if it keeps workers in a job and ensures that we do more than dig holes for a living (no disrespect to our hard working coal miners)

We are a tiny economy. We need to think and act locally. Let economic superpowers worry about global markets (ie ensuring that Hyundai and the like rise to the top and Falcon ends up where it belongs)

Highway star · 31-03-2016, 12:37 PM

Just looking at the February sales in Australia, The Mustang is the top selling sports car under $80,000 Ford Mustang – 356 (down from 389) while the Ford Falcon was – 421 (up from 235)in the under $70,000 large car range.
While the Mustang is doing well , It could be a lot better if they had some stock on the floor.
The Falcon figures will climb dramatically with the Sprint sales in March/April, which makes you wonder why they never thought of doing this years ago when times were tough.

roddy1960 · 31-03-2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford17

image

G'day...Awesome combined graph ..Thanks...Tells a story better than my original numbers..What fascinates me with the Territory numbers is that it is relatively consistently in the mid teens x thousands..and only last year dropped below 10,000...Highest sales in a single year 19,000..IF the Falcon had been the same near consistency I wonder whether it would have made a massive difference because the cynic in me is beginning to wonder if Headquarters in Dearborn kind of /sort of wanted the Falcon to fail and as touched on elsewhere the abysmal advertising in recent years wouldn't help at all...Is that too cynical ? Cheers Rod..

Bipolar · 31-03-2016, 12:59 PM

Nope. Wouldn't surprise me if the primary factor that's kept the Falcon here since the late 60s were passionate FoA presidents, thinking of ways to convince them it's a good idea to keep it. Soon as the first person came along in the role that just treated it like a regular job, and wanted to keep FoMoCo exec management happy, it was the beginning of the end.

malazn mafia · 31-03-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipolar

Nope. Wouldn't surprise me if the primary factor that's kept the Falcon here since the late 60s were passionate FoA presidents, thinking of ways to convince them it's a good idea to keep it. Soon as the first person came along in the role that just treated it like a regular job, and wanted to keep FoMoCo exec management happy, it was the beginning of the end.

Didn't some random black american fella they probably pulled of the streets become President of FoA at FG launch in 2008? He seemed pretty clueless. Well he got so bored he resigned shortly after. Wonder if he was a janitor in Detroit before his wrecking ball exercise in Australia...

And yes, I might be the first to bury my head in the sand. I wouldn't mind if we still had Bee Gees, Beatles, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, disco, classic rock, gospel etc playing on the radio from decades gone past. I loathe all the modern garbage like rap, R&B, hip hop, dubstep or whatever horrible noises my generation (I was born late 80s) are playing and I have to endure on the radio. But hey, that's just how the world works, one man's trash is another man's treasure. To me, the world and everything in it is rapidly going down the scrapheap and it's peak has long passed. The afterlife had better be set in the 70s to 90s on repeat with no trace of anything from the 21st century (except BA/BF/FG Falcons

)

Windsor220 · 31-03-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6tjet

Cars now are merely appliances I totally agree. No character and it is very sad that Australia has shat on it's local car industry. They will regret it one day... I hope.

I see a few people talking about every thing else being appliances. What exactly is the Falcon? Its a basic 4 door sedan. People talk of it like its some exotic supercar or something.

Wretched · 31-03-2016, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Does that matter?

Still good economic policy and a shed load smarter than other things that the government purse funds

I am happy if a public servant is driving the 3rd best car for purpose if it keeps workers in a job and ensures that we do more than dig holes for a living (no disrespect to our hard working coal miners)

We are a tiny economy. We need to think and act locally. Let economic superpowers worry about global markets (ie ensuring that Hyundai and the like rise to the top and Falcon ends up where it belongs)

It does, basically without the government being forced to buy the car, sales plummet, the buying public/consumer/the customer of this product have turned off it.

The car wasn't up to the requirements of the buying public and relying solely on one customer base is putting all your eggs in one basket. Not really the government's fault there.

Really, the only way Falcon would have survived is if government forced the buying public to buy one. We all know how good the product was when the protectionist tariffs were high.

SumoDog68 · 31-03-2016, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

I heard this morning that Ford sold something like 300,000 Fusions in the USA last year.
Their population is approx 320 million.
That's 1 Fusion per 1067 people.

Compare that to 2015 Falcon numbers - and a population of approx 24 million.
It becomes 1 Falcon per 3000 people.

To get anywhere near the Fusion numbers per head, we need to go back to 2010, which is when we still had optimism for the local industry.

Ford US has 16% of the market and F series truck sells 60 000 units a month.Ranger sells around 3000 a month locally. Very different market position for Ford.

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html

**Dave R** · 31-03-2016, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Didn't some random black american fella they probably pulled of the streets become President of FoA at FG launch in 2008? He seemed pretty clueless. Well he got so bored he resigned shortly after. Wonder if he was a janitor in Detroit before his wrecking ball exercise in Australia..

The Mr T impersonator, I believe he was running Ford Canada before he used his 12 month stint here to sabotage the FG launch (kept telling the media it was just a facelifted BF, presumably approved those horrid finger ads).

In fact the last two major Falcon launches have been talked down by Ford Australia presidents. You had Mr T talking down the FG and more recently leading up to FGX's launch Bob Graziano told the media it wouldn't be on the same level as the VF Commodore. Maybe Ford should look into appointing people who are willing to talk up their products, just a thought.

SumoDog68 · 31-03-2016, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6tjet

Cars now are merely appliances I totally agree. No character and it is very sad that Australia has shat on it's local car industry. They will regret it one day... I hope.

When character and cars are mentioned together i think of Alfa :-) Alfa character is comprised of oil leaks ,bits that fall off ,leaking roof ,woeful ergonomics etc. Great to drive when it is running ... Make my daily car without character please. For a fun weekend car it might be perfect.

danzvtil · 31-03-2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleek the Elite

Absolute disgrace that falcons & even commobores will no longer be built in this country.

Every country needs a strong manufacturing industry & we've given ours away.

Government fleet sales (or lack thereof) have killed off the falcon.

On a positive note, how good were the BA falcons? Part of the reason they sold plenty was because they were a big step up from the previous model.

A car maker cant survive on govt fleet business, theres no money in it. It only works when they are selling 100-150k cars to the general market, where the fleet volume is just cream on top.

Windsor220 · 31-03-2016, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

The Mr T impersonator, I believe he was running Ford Canada before he used his 12 month stint here to sabotage the FG launch (kept telling the media it was just a facelifted BF, presumably approved those horrid finger ads).

In fact the last two major Falcon launches have been talked down by Ford Australia presidents. You had Mr T talking down the FG and more recently leading up to FGX's launch Bob Graziano told the media it wouldn't be on the same level as the VF Commodore. Maybe Ford should look into appointing people who are willing to talk up their products, just a thought.

Not sure about him talking down the FG. He actually liked it and tried to get it exported.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11217528

**Dave R** · 31-03-2016, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Not sure about him talking down the FG. He actually liked it and tried to get it exported.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11217528

He wasn't complete doom and gloom but I believe all the talk about it being only a mild BF makeover started with him. When the car launched a lot of people had already dismissed it as a shoestring facelift, even though it wasn't.

Stefan · 31-03-2016, 06:21 PM

You got to wonder of anyone at Ford where looking at a graph like this at Broadmeadows in 2006, then again in 2007 and 2008, and still continue with Falcon in the same direction or think their product may not be right?

Ford17 · 31-03-2016, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

You got to wonder of anyone at Ford where looking at a graph like this at Broadmeadows in 2006, then again in 2007 and 2008, and still continue with Falcon in the same direction or think their product may not be right?

The product was better than it had ever been when the FG arrived (except maybe for the paint quality!), but the demand was falling as consumers had much greater choices available for their shifting requirements.

There were plenty of rumours and talk going on when the FG launched, that it would be the last locally made Ford.

vixf6 · 31-03-2016, 07:07 PM

When I go to the supermarket I try to find items that are made by my fellow Aussies brothers and sisters, even with the disgustingly misleading labels such as made in Australia from local and imported ingredients, I still try and be positive and support these things. It seems that the "support your own country and its people" pride is gone. Shame on you Aust public, you have killed off your own auto industry. 50000 job losses is very conservative.
1. Spare parts everywhere and cheap as chips.
2. Most mechanics can fix quickly and easily.
3. Cheap to buy new.
4. Cheap to buy second hand.
5. Full sized and not some shoebox
6. Plenty of performance variants

I just don't get it

roddy1960 · 31-03-2016, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I see a few people talking about every thing else being appliances. What exactly is the Falcon? Its a basic 4 door sedan. People talk of it like its some exotic supercar or something.

G'day.. Guess what..It is a supercar ..any car that can stay in continuous production for 56 years has something special about it..and it can cart a whole family around too!!!..Try doing that in A Ferrari , Lamborghini, Porsche 911 ..Cheers Rod

roddy1960 · 31-03-2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukeyson

Had uncle Geoff steering the ship with passion for the brand!

IMO the BEST Ford ad to draw people into the new XR6 Turbo.

So many good and exciting things happening for us Ford fans when the BA came out. Then Ambrose/Ford winning in V8s. Many good memories for me that time !

G'day Lukeyson Wholeheartedly , absolutely agree..Geoff Polites would be turning in his grave now..I remember his joy , talking up the Ford Australia products...A true blue Aussie , selling a true blue platform..The BA XR6 ad was probably the last time they had a REAL GO at inspiring us to buy the car..Sales showed that this worked ...That ad is a classic..The two US guys that we refer too were hatchet men..Nothing more . Not naive enough to think they were the sole reason but their lack of passion for our car has to have influenced prospective buyers and maybe the Marketing Dept had the rug pulled from under them..Cheers Rod..

cro142 · 31-03-2016, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Wow, didn't realise Ford sold so many BA's and BAII's from 2002 to 2004. What was it? Advertising, design, power, tech, the colour range? Show's how good the car was for its time, given the oil prices and rise of small cars. Many Holden loyalists even bought Falcons and Territories at that time.

This was the Geoff Polites era.

He had the vision to produce an attractive product, and understood the need for quality marketing.

Since Polites, the succession of brainless Yanks in the chair did NOTHING.

Sprint XR8 · 31-03-2016, 10:26 PM

Marin Burella played the biggest part in Ford Australia's demise.
His cancellation of a major facelift and V6 program for Falcon already in development wasted millions and killed any chance of exports.
He also abandoned the plan to locally build Focus.

Burella should be remembered not for saving the engine plant, but as the Aussie who when given stewardship of Ford Australia's future chose to stab Falcon through the heart so he could play at being CEO of Ford China.

xr6turboford · 31-03-2016, 10:29 PM

Just what we needed another doom and gloom the Falcon is dead thred. Come on October then people can start on the Holden commodore. I've owned a few Falcons my favourite was the XBGT Coupe but I'm moving on Ford have more than enough good cars to choose from. We have the Mustang, Focus ST/RS just to name a few.

Windsor220 · 31-03-2016, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day.. Guess what..It is a supercar ..any car that can stay in continuous production for 56 years has something special about it..and it can cart a whole family around too!!!..Try doing that in A Ferrari , Lamborghini, Porsche 911 ..Cheers Rod

Well I guess a Toyota Corolla is a supercar too then

Boosted8 · 31-03-2016, 10:57 PM

Hardly surprising. I can't even count the number of issues I've had with my BAII. Just a week ago, a friend pulled the passenger's side door skin clean off... and bear in mind, this was a female.

Even when you compare it with the EAII I had, it's pretty astonishing how bad the fit and finish was.

Sorry for telling the truth. I'm sure I'll be flamed by the die hards.

**Ratmick** · 31-03-2016, 11:09 PM

I've had a BA MkII Fairmont for over a year now and it's been one of the most reliable cars I've had the pleasure of driving. It is pretty low kilometres for its age (under 100,000km) and was driven by Hulk's wife (yes, that Hulk) and has obviously been fairly well looked after.

Just replaced the battery this week, no idea how old the el-cheapo one in there was.

The antenna module (I think) has gone, cost me $25 from a wrecker.

...that's it, not bad for a 12 year old car.