M7 - Western Sydney Orbital OPEN - NSW

[Keepleft]

Zetec, sorry squire, yes. Shortly.

As you know, the newly upgraded, to dual-carriageway status AND those of full freeway status lengths of the Pacific Highway upgrade - are having these installed right now.

A Point to Point AND Safe-T-Cam also operates at Mt White weight station F3 for both directions, now in operation. This is the Safe T Cam which was removed and then refurbished from Wyong and reinstalled at the site.

The remaining 90km/h zone also has a new FIXED speed camera running, signposted per usual NSW requirement, North reading, location south of Mt White, north of Jolls Bridge.

See NSW Hansard for North Coast sitting Labour women MP's full support of these.

I am feeling we should perhaps not spend any more money on the Pacific Highway upgrade, it is clearly evident the replacement roads are far more dangerous as evidenced by the need for more cameras on yet unopened stretches and new roads!

[XLS99 Ute man]

Originally Posted by HLC

yep.

the red poles with the wires are a tribute/memorial to them. the wires represent the horses tail, or the feather plumes in the hat or something.

but something we all know, is that they look bloody stupid and unfinished :

i tell ya what it got me thinking
its gunna make the poor fella who has to cut the grass job HELL!
will have to whipper snip around every single one of em

[Rodp]

They probably won't need the safe-t cams as they could probably tell your average speed from your entry into the toll road and your exit time if the toll sensors are synchronised.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Rodp

They probably won't need the safe-t cams as they could probably tell your average speed from your entry into the toll road and your exit time if the toll sensors are synchronised.

The Safe T Cams are for checking registration status, and of heavy vehicle movements across the state here in NSW, particularly in relation to logbook enforcement.

Take into account that South Australia now installs the NSW sourced Safe T Cam system and has already passed the necessary data matching AND 'instantaneous' data transfer legislation. This allows both States to instantly be aware of infractions.

The technology has been further improved at all sites in NSW and SA that 'better' allows for even motorcycle registration plate status checking, should this be so desired.

[gtfpv]

:( not fair the government giveth and the government taketh away.

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Zetec, sorry squire, yes. Shortly.

The remaining 90km/h zone also has a new FIXED speed camera running, signposted per usual NSW requirement, North reading, location south of Mt White, north of Jolls Bridge.

When did the abovementioned speed camera become operational?

I went thru it last Thursday and the signage was all still covered up

[Mechan1k]

OK ... this morning was a bit of a problem on the M2 ... M7 ran fine ... until you got the M2 and had people merging in from Abbott Rd.

Also an accident on the M2 (seeing as heading to Chatswood you are always looking into blinding sun at 6am in the morning) slowed things down a bit.

Witnessed a truck nearly jack-knife in front of me ... the truck driver wasn't paying attention to the braking cars in front .. jumped on the brakes and locked everything up ... trailer slid to the left and nearly took out a chick in a Barina (poor girl 5h1t herself).

But I must admit the short section from Norwest to the M2 has saved me 10 minutes in morning peak traffic (about 3-4 traffic lights) ... M2 is getting a little more congested though.

There will be onflow congestion in some spots though durng peak periods.

I also noticed a visibility issue during heavy (torential downpour) rain ... lines on the road were hard to see ... cats-eyes would have been good on that morning.

Still I drove from Richmond Rd to Gt Western Hwy several times yesterday and found it excellent ... there was an accident at the Woodstock Ave onramp though (merging/not looking issues).

I have found some of the on-ramp merging can be difficult in some spots ... visibility is a little poor on a couple of on-ramps.

The M5 has been a dogs breakfast, from Campbelltown up to the M7 the last 2 days. Normally its at 40kmh about 1k from the Ingleburn onramp but today this stretched almost to the Campbelltown onramp. The M5 really needs to be 3 lanes wide from campbelltown all the way to king georges

[Steffo]

Well, my dad's first cousin was visiting us from Kiama last night (we're in Blacktown)... he went home on the M7... 55 min Blacktown - Kiama... he said its great. He's going to get an e-tag for it.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

The M5 has been a dogs breakfast, from Campbelltown up to the M7 the last 2 days. Normally its at 40kmh about 1k from the Ingleburn onramp but today this stretched almost to the Campbelltown onramp. The M5 really needs to be 3 lanes wide from campbelltown all the way to king georges

Agreed ... I know most of the freeways were built quite a while ago ... but there has been plenty of room for widening ... I know the M5 has been wored on southbound for a while now ... but northbound needs it though.

I used to travel in from Camden into Lidcombe everyday as well ... and it was horrid back then as well.

Upgrades of existing roads are needed to handle the extra load of newer residential areas that are being built in the South West now ... but it's not being addressed ... and by the time they put an extra lane in ... it'll need 4 lanes each way to cope.

M4 is horrid of a morning as well ... and that's 3 lanes each way already.

M2 is starting to get worse as well.

[V8falcons]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

The M5 has been a dogs breakfast, from Campbelltown up to the M7 the last 2 days. Normally its at 40kmh about 1k from the Ingleburn onramp but today this stretched almost to the Campbelltown onramp. The M5 really needs to be 3 lanes wide from campbelltown all the way to king georges

yep,they need at least 3 lanes to and from narellan road up to casula or moorebank ave as after that it calms right down,heading south anyway.
Friday nights heading south in ski season is a nightmare from liverpool down.

[ricthewheelie]

gawd, you poor buggers, over here no toll roads because the govt's not afraid of borrowing money, most new roads near the city are 3 lanes wide, 3 different ways to go north and south of the city (with only 1 going through the centre of Perth).
My Sister and Brother in Law live in Rosemeadow (near Campbeltown) and when I visit, I know what you go through when travelling on the M5 into Sydney or to the Blue Mountains etc, so I do pity you.

Originally Posted by vctxr6ute

yep,they need at least 3 lanes to and from narellan road up to casula or moorebank ave as after that it calms right down,heading south anyway.
Friday nights heading south in ski season is a nightmare from liverpool down.

Thats was usually due to the hume onramp onto the M5. People don't know how to merge proplery and enter the freeway doing 60kmh, due to the merge from 2 lanes to 1 before hitting the actual onramp. then they get all nervous with the prospect of having to merging and slow down(WTF??) causing the people on the freeway to slow and let the merge in at 30kmh. That was causes slower traffic. If this stupid driving causes an accident happens and its all over for the rest of the night and it takes you 3 hours to do a 35 min trip at 3am...

This hopefully wont happen now because the get their own lane and can merge once their at the right speed.

The only problem is that people will stay in the second outer lane as if there weren't any changes made to the road? only the swerve left into the left most lane to the Ingleburn offramp.... *Sigh* I don't get some drivers...

Originally Posted by vctxr6ute

yep,they need at least 3 lanes to and from narellan road up to casula or moorebank ave as after that it calms right down,heading south anyway.

Well in the morning the 4 main areas of where traffic slows are:
-Ingleburn onramp
-Liverpool Hume onramp and Moorebank Ave offramp area(better since M7)
-3>2 lane merge after the tolls
-King Georges onramp

Other things that may bring traffic to slow or stop, in ascending order of how much they effect traffic
-Dumped cars in the shoulder
-Burnt out cars in the shoulder
-A car broken down with bonnet open
-Someone changing a flat tyre
-A car broken down with NRMA onsite
-Police or other emergeny vehicles at the side/median.

My solutions:
-Now like you said if there was 3 lanes from narellan road that would let the trucks from the Ingleburn industrial area to pick up speed and not slow traffic. -If there was an offramp for the hume hwy at liverpool that would probably ease congestion at Moorebank Ave.
-3>2 merge, Keep it 3 lanes to king georges perhaps? Theres about 4km before the king georges off ramp with a shoulder at least 2 lanes wide. Make another lane?
-King Georges onramp. This is a tricky one to solve because the tunnel can only has 2 lanes.

Originally Posted by ricthewheelie

gawd, you poor buggers, over here no toll roads because the govt's not afraid of borrowing money, most new roads near the city are 3 lanes wide, 3 different ways to go north and south of the city (with only 1 going through the centre of Perth).
My Sister and Brother in Law live in Rosemeadow (near Campbeltown) and when I visit, I know what you go through when travelling on the M5 into Sydney or to the Blue Mountains etc, so I do pity you.

Do you normally drive over to Sydney or plane?

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Eastlink is the largest Civil project ever undertaken in the history of Australia.

Doubt it, the Snowy Mountains Scheme would be a lot larger

At the other end of the Hume, we had the Craigeburn bypass open on the 20th. It runs from the Northern Ring Road in Thomastown out to the Hume and bypasses 17km of the old road and, umm, quite a few traffic lights, and had been partly open for a few months out as far as Epping. I think it will be great, I just can't understand why they didn't take it about 3km further which would have bypassed the only 2 remaining intersections being the Shell servo at Bunker Hill and the pub and servos at Kalkallo for those who know the area. Just stoopid, why wouldn't you bypass the lot???

[Keepleft]

BLACK LS WROTE THIS DAY: Well in the morning the 4 main areas of where traffic slows are:
-Ingleburn onramp
-Liverpool Hume onramp and Moorebank Ave offramp area(better since M7)
-3>2 lane merge after the tolls

Both in need of attention in relation to length and capacity.


-King Georges onramp

The King George Interchange is a 'full design' (best); http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructi...tpoints_g2.gif

On the other hand a RIGHT-handed EXIT or ENTRY creates traffic flow issues along the route. See Bexley Rd Eastbound Exit for example where one must stay in the right lane, an utterly stoopid design, really owing too much involvement with Councils and Green/Community groups (seriously); http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/constructi...tpoints_g4.gif


Other things that may bring traffic to slow or stop, in ascending order of how much they effect traffic
-Dumped cars in the shoulder
-Burnt out cars in the shoulder
-A car broken down with bonnet open
-Someone changing a flat tyre
-A car broken down with NRMA onsite

PARTICULARLY in the TUNNEL sections. NSW tunnel building standard for motorway category has the roadway WITHOUT a freeway-standard LEFT Emergency Shoulder, typically this is 2.0 - 3.0m wide. RATHER,- they rely on the cheap option of BAYS, where your vehicle is duty-bound when breaking down/faltering to stop! Most cars when dying don't like to stop at the provided bays:-)

We have had serious crashes and fatalities on the M5 East owing traffic-flow disruption caused by right handed entry and exit and sight-delineation issues. The complete lack of a left-Emergency shoulder is utterly criminal, as is on a financial basis - the lack of reserved roadway for future lane addition. If you are injured or have a relative killed on any road, particularly this section, I do suggest you seek genuine legal redress for negligence from the State. You can sue for Nervous Shock in negligence. The State, in this case RTA, WERE well warned to NOT proceed with the current design by myself as a NSW Motorist's Advocate and the NRMA who held, and hold grave fears for the design as it stands.

RTA argument was cost based, advising it would have cost $100 million to the $740 million to have included the emergency lanes. I say it's a small price and Contractors advised it'd have cost a figure no where near this figure.

Anyhow, not helping is that people often do not switch on their hazard-warning lights when their vehicle is faltering or stopped, let alone if safe place a triangle nearby. Another issue is folk tend sometimes to stand behind the stopped vehicle blocking taillights, rather than many metres (car lengths) in front and are then collected by approaching traffic, driver's bearing huge grins whilst doing so!

-Police or other emergeny vehicles at the side/median.
Age old problem!


My solutions:
-Now like you said if there was 3 lanes from Narellan road that would let the trucks from the Ingleburn industrial area to pick up speed and not slow traffic. -If there was an offramp for the Hume Hwy at Liverpool that would probably ease congestion at Moorebank Ave.

We could extend the ON-RAMP here. I understand some modifications in that area are identified for future funding.


-3>2 merge, Keep it 3 lanes to King Georges perhaps? Theres about 4km before the King Georges off ramp with a shoulder at least 2 lanes wide. Make another lane?

NO, NOT OUT OF THE SHOULDER, NEVER EVER EVER EVER!!! Lanes are made by using the median OR by widening the road overall, we collectively must not, cannot and will not allow ANY removing or diminshing of emergency stopping lanes or width.


-King Georges onramp. This is a tricky one to solve because the tunnel can only has 2 lanes.[/QUOTE]

As said above, a result of local government input, lousy forsight and cost cutting, we continue to fund and get second-best outcomes. My fear is that this looks set to continue in NSW with the F3-M2 link, which will further add to existing M2 traffic woes. Another idiotic bleeding heart influenced road design built to the same dangerous M5 tunnel standards.

We *MUST* improve our tunnel design and required features. My typical standard cross-section for freeway or motorway tunnels is vis, but has mandatory seperate emergency pedestrian exists in the middle-enclosed, or off to the left-also enclosed:

Emergency lane*traffic=left * traffic=centre* traffic=right* right=shoulder
-----2.5m-----.-----3.5-----.-----3.5-----.-----3.5-----.---0.5-1.0m---

Measure in metres. Interchanges mandatory, this means under NO circumstances should there be any right-handed exits or entry ramps. Climb allowance and delinneation to be per open-freeway standard. This in turn is generally world standard.

Fire, radio override and a zillion other features per existing, rather, to match Europes/UN's 2005 TMS.

We must stop funding second best and third rate motorway.

[ricthewheelie]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Do you normally drive over to Sydney or plane?

Fly over and hire a car, I get a EL Falcon for $44 a day. No a bad price. Had to hire a VN bombadoor once, broke down on Princess hwy in afternoon peak hour,
after that took my brother in laws advice which was "If you're in the Sydney CBD after 4:15pm, go find a place to drink and eat and leave at 7 or 7:30pm".
Did that a few times.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

We must stop funding second best and third rate motorway.

But with the hightest Vehicle registration costs in the nation plus the largest number of Toll Roads, NSW motoristst are not funding for the best roads in the nation. Somehow we are being short changed.

Where are all the $$$'s going?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

But with the hightest Vehicle registration costs in the nation plus the largest number of Toll Roads, NSW motoristst are not funding for the best roads in the nation. Somehow we are being short changed.

That is the thing Red, we are funding SECOND BEST DESIGN really at virtual full quality funding, all per my post above sire. We see the results of this in NSW with the Pacific Highway Upgrade, the initial sums (1.2-5 billion) SHOULD have given us a full grade-separated interchange freeway from Newcastle to the QLD border by 2010, but owing cost blowout were at 40% with up to 55% on plan.

The future IS and ABSOLUTELY a combined funding arrangement NSW and COMM - WITH A TOLL. NSW must accept this road is purely a State responsibility, it is not meant to be a federal road, the New England highway is, and this is where the Feds should throw much more of their funds, on that basis, rather reality, the toll road is perhaps fair.

Local government bull, Green and Community groups all add to road building costs, depending on the road-section and level of Consultation and adjustment to plans and EIS, this just keeps adding up. I recall Kennet cutting through much red tape in his day in the Republic Of VIC, NSW needs an opposition who will do just that for a while.

We have the situation now, post 2005, where the NSW Planning Department will now hold sway over initial RTA Engineer design, my concern here is christ only knows what insane motorway/freeway designs we'll get.

I'll make personal stern effort at preventing any more N5 East right hand exit or entry horrors.

Where are all the $$$'s going?

Wages and Company outgoings and dare I say 'political mateship and games.

The Buladealah-Cooloolongook section cost 197 million dollars for a 22 kilometre length of roadway in 2000 dollar terms. You can see clearly the cost per kilometre ratio, it does NOT meet required criteria in relation to median barrier, the median width is 8.0 metres, and by design guidelines it MUST have barrier where that is less than 10, current guidelines have furthered this out to 13-15m or so. AND WILL by god.

[Timmeh]

M7 is bloody fantastic.

North-West Sydney to Wollongong, 1 hour 10 mins (M7, Hume Hwy, Picton Rd, expressway into the Gong), fully laden BA XR6 averaged 8.3L / 100km on the trip.

And it was free.

Timmeh

[LUXO_8]

this might be off topic, does anyone know if the etag is compatible with other etag roads in aus.....ie, can i use my melbourne etag if i was to come to sydney for example....

i would hope so, it'd be very confusing if they were all different - especially for people that actually do travel between melb and sydney a lot, trucks etc...

[gtfpv]

well the government have just announced a surplus of $16000000000 i say f#### the tax cuts . the m7 cost 1.5 billion to build . and the pacific highway dual carraigeway upgrade has just been singned expected to cost 8 billion . just 1/2 the federal surplus. instead the nsw government are going to borrow the money and have a toll on this . i think they said $150 EACH WAY SYDNEY TO COOLANGATTA.. i know it is federal money but why did the federal government intrioduce the gst . so they can give it back in tax cuts or to put it to good use.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by MADNC_8

this might be off topic, does anyone know if the etag is compatible with other etag roads in aus.....ie, can i use my melbourne etag if i was to come to sydney for example....

i would hope so, it'd be very confusing if they were all different - especially for people that actually do travel between melb and sydney a lot, trucks etc...

YES, the system is national and will include operability in future toll roads, say in Sydney's Gore Hill Fwy, F3-M2 Link, Pacific Highway upgrades as they come on line.

GTFPV - The cost Sydney to Brisban one-way is expected to be $20, I'd suggest more like $23.

A toll free alternative will be available, basically the bypassed sections.

Those using the road for short trips within their region will not be charged.

I agree, it'd be great to have the Commonwealth spend part of that 11 billion surplus, the so estimated 8 billion to complete the job - on the road, even on the basis of it being critical national infrustructure.

It won't happen though, other State GovCo's and interstate Federal MP's will not want this to happen, and the Commonwealth have other budgetry areas where they'll spend the money.

http://www.budget.gov.au/

[TCK-098]

I only live 2 minutes from this great road but as usaul we still have the right lane hogs that dont understand slow lane for the left and fast lane for the right but i like the idea of getting to parramatta in around 30 minutes.

[Bucket]

Used it yesterday and today..Did a round trip Newcastle to Canberra- 3.5 hours each way...brilliant...nothing better than cutting through those 48 sets of lights!!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Used it yesterday and today..Did a round trip Newcastle to Canberra- 3.5 hours each way...brilliant...nothing better than cutting through those 48 sets of lights!!

Good, very good. Going to miss those traffic lights!

[deesun]

I like traffic lights
I like traffic lights
specially when the're green

[thunderoo]

I used it for the first time today when i had to go from the mid north coast to Canberra and back.....IT WAS AWESOME !!!! Took so much time off my trip !!!

[bathurst77]

I live near Penrith and my office is in Lane Cove, I just worked out that to use the M4-M7-M2 trip to work will cost me just under $100.00 per week!

M4-M2 leg of M7 = $5.88
M2 toll is $3.80
= $9.68 each way or 96.80 per week.

Plus the normal petrol tyres etc ...

Thanks but no thanks