Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by onfire

If not looks, and in saying that most people wouldn't have a clue what extras or options are in their cars mechanical make up.. then why are more Commodores sold over the Falcon?

quite simply, because of the badge on the front. australians believe holdens are australian and anything with a holden badge on the front sells way better than what it should.

do you really think the cruze would sell if it was sold here with a daewoo badge on it.

ford is considered american, holden australian. its that simple.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by mik

ahhh the cruiser is a diesel.......the penny drops, i thought there was something fishy, petrol 4wd v8 behemoths just don`t get better fuel economy than cars, not really apples for apples is it being diesel vs petrol.

And if its a diesel 200 series add another $20,000 to the retail price........

[Spammy]

Do others think the taxi stigma impacts on Falcon sales. In the back of my mind I associate being in a falcon with wierd smells, diff whine and loud talk back radio.

Not the sole reason for me not buying a new Falcon but does weigh on my thnking.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by prydey

and yet you whinge when ecoboost isn't offered in xr6 you can't have it both ways. also, ask every xr6 driver you come across whether they know what diff they have in their car. 99% of them won't have a clue. G6ET has no LSD either and does low 13's down the 1/4 standard. having no LSD only bothers people like you who like to pick on things that buyers don't really care or know about.



looks are subjective. i have always thought the ve is an ugly car. so from my point of view, the xr6 kills it in looks. doesn't look like a toad.

Im not having it both ways, I didnt say LSDs sell cars. He just asked what the SV6 has over the XR6. Most buyers wouldnt care about the diff.

[jpd80]

Sometimes one's business case needs to be expanded to take in the big view...

How did Ford make T6 Ranger viable?
By discussing the Mid Sized Truck needs with as many Ford markets and regions as possible....

A falcon/Territory just for Australia might not make business sense but if the costs of development
were shared with other regions...especially the big market to our direct North, things might change...

I could be very wrong on this but having Marin Burela in a key position in China may help FoA's cause...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by prydey

quite simply, because of the badge on the front. australians believe holdens are australian and anything with a holden badge on the front sells way better than what it should.

do you really think the cruze would sell if it was sold here with a daewoo badge on it.

ford is considered american, holden australian. its that simple.

allways the badge hay...

what do i get with an XR6??

SV6/8 power windows standard.
LSD standard..
man/auto..
blue tooth.
satnav.
fill a phone book with options.

it is totaly diffarent to the omega, not just a body kit!!

[Smoke Pursuit]

What stops people from buying the Falcon? Their last one!!

That and silly dealers who ignore customers... Just like one ignored me today when I walked across the yard to look at a GS for 10 minutes... Must have been too hot for them...

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im not having it both ways, I didnt say LSDs sell cars. He just asked what the SV6 has over the XR6. Most buyers wouldnt care about the diff.

The company I work for has mostly Commodores for lease cars, so I get to drive a range of them.. SV6s, Omegas, etc. Compared to Falcon they're rubbish, plain and simple. I'm totally dumbfounded that ANYONE could step out of a Commodore and into a Falcon without selecting the latter. The smoothness of Falcon power delivery and all around driveability and 'feel' on the road is miles ahead of Commodore. The sound of the Commodore 6 accelerating from idle is so rough... no torque either. My colleagues get sick of me saying it, most simply couldn't care less.

This is the bottom line. People will generally put road presence, social assumptions, the badge and what their friends think is cool before the attributes of the car itself. It's not hard to come to this conclusion. SUVs are everywhere and THEY ALL drive like rubbish compared to a well set-up sedan. Reasoning? It's the current fad.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by burnz

allways the badge hay...

what do i get with an XR6??

SV6/8 power windows standard.
LSD standard..
man/auto..
blue tooth.
satnav.
fill a phone book with options.

it is totaly diffarent to the omega, not just a body kit!!

Nice spelling bro!!

XR6 has standard power windows too you know...

SV6 does not come with Satnav standard, its an option, just as its an option on XR6.. They are both on par now, with both of them having touch screens, 18 inch wheels, reverses sensors, side airbags...

[Polyal]

But one has a lawn mower of an engine and a trans calibration done by a 5 year old. Although to be fair I think the lack of torque is actually the issue as it kicks down at the sight of an ant hill.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by martyk54

The company I work for has mostly Commodores for lease cars, so I get to drive a range of them.. SV6s, Omegas, etc. Compared to Falcon they're rubbish, plain and simple. I'm totally dumbfounded that ANYONE could step out of a Commodore and into a Falcon without selecting the latter. The smoothness of Falcon power delivery and all around driveability and 'feel' on the road is miles ahead of Commodore. The sound of the Commodore 6 accelerating from idle is so rough... no torque either. My colleagues get sick of me saying it, most simply couldn't care less.

This is the bottom line. People will generally put road presence, social assumptions, the badge and what their friends think is cool before the attributes of the car itself. It's not hard to come to this conclusion. SUVs are everywhere and THEY ALL drive like rubbish compared to a well set-up sedan. Reasoning? It's the current fad.

I am a Ford man through and through, I had a Series II SV6 VE last time I went to Sydney before Christmas and I believe it was a better car then an FG XR6... It felt more solid on the road, regardless of the poor power train it still felt better built and quieter. It also had better leg room and seating position, something the Falcon does very poorly. I could get my long legs in and out of the SV6 much easier then my FG's... I actually enjoyed it, but then it might be just because I am bored with the FG...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Nice spelling bro!!

XR6 has standard power windows too you know...

SV6 does not come with Satnav standard, its an option, just as its an option on XR6.. They are both on par now, with both of them having touch screens, 18 inch wheels, reverses sensors, side airbags...

whats the differance with a XR6 and XT?
same question SV6 v omega..

how much of an option list does the falc have?

[onfire]

http://www.fleetcare.com.au/go/blog/...g-cars-of-2011

By model
Vehicle 2011 / 2010 %diff

1. Mazda3-----------41,429 / 39,003 / 6.2
2. Commodore-----40,617 / 45,956 / -11.6
3. Toyota Hilux-----36,124 / 39,896 / -9.5
4. Toyota Corolla---36,087 / 41,632 / -13.3
5. Holden Cruze----33,784 / 28,334 / 19.2
6. Hyundai i30------28,869 / 29,772 / -3
7. Nissan Navara---21,675 / 21,171 / 2.4
8. Toyota Camry---19,169 / 25,014 / -23.4
9. Ford Falcon------18,741 / 29,516 / -36.5
10. Mits' Lancer------18,717 / 23,076 / -18.9

That's a 36.5% decrease in sales in one year. And the Commodore, only saw less than a 12% drop in sales.

Sure, small and mid sized cars are becoming the rage, however again.. Commodore only saw an 11.6% drop, while the Falcon dropped 36.5%..

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by onfire

http://www.fleetcare.com.au/go/blog/...g-cars-of-2011

By model
Vehicle 2011 / 2010 %diff

1. Mazda3-----------41,429 / 39,003 / 6.2
2. Commodore-----40,617 / 45,956 / -11.6
3. Toyota Hilux-----36,124 / 39,896 / -9.5
4. Toyota Corolla---36,087 / 41,632 / -13.3
5. Holden Cruze----33,784 / 28,334 / 19.2
6. Hyundai i30------28,869 / 29,772 / -3
7. Nissan Navara---21,675 / 21,171 / 2.4
8. Toyota Camry---19,169 / 25,014 / -23.4
9. Ford Falcon------18,741 / 29,516 / -36.5
10. Mits' Lancer------18,717 / 23,076 / -18.9

That's a 36.5% decrease in sales in one year. And the Commodore, only saw less than a 12% drop in sales.

Sure, small and mid sized cars are becoming the rage, however again.. Commodore only saw an 11.6% drop, while the Falcon dropped 36.5%..

Interesting to see the Cruze came out of nowhere to clearly steal some Corolla sales, possibly some commodore and Camry sales too.

[F6E]

Read an interesting article on the weekend about car sizing and "bracket creep" . How cars 'grow' with every new model released.

example was the Cruze vs the original VB Commodore

Cruze is wider and taller and only 100mm shorter than the VB

Sis-in-law had the original Rav 4 forever, he has a 5 yo Prado, she just traded up to a new Rav 4 and side-by-side, the thing is nearly as big as the old Prado !!

[weairy]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I am a Ford man through and through, I had a Series II SV6 VE last time I went to Sydney before Christmas and I believe it was a better car then an FG XR6... It felt more solid on the road, regardless of the poor power train it still felt better built and quieter. It also had better leg room and seating position, something the Falcon does very poorly. I could get my long legs in and out of the SV6 much easier then my FG's... I actually enjoyed it, but then it might be just because I am bored with the FG...

My mother in law has a new SS Wagon, fully factory optioned with all the Walkinshaw crap and one of the first Series II models. I think it's one of the most horrid things I've ever had the misfortune of being a passenger in. Sure, the 6lt V8 had a nice note and a fair amount of go behind it, but my god the thing rode like a 3 wheeled shopping trolley. And with three of us across the back (we're all pretty average built) it was a tight squeeze. Apart from that, I think they're really tacky inside and the Holden IQ system was pathetic (actually went back to Holden for replacement after 10,000km).

My mechanic had an SV6 SI for awhile there and barely drove it because, to him, it had more road noise than my old VT had, and "drives like a horny praying mantis". And he's a devout Holden/Chev lover.

It all comes down to personal preference I suppose. I love my XR6 and I have full intentions of buying an XR6T or GT-P when I'm off my P Plates, and wouldn't ever consider a Commodore over it again.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by prydey

quite simply, because of the badge on the front. australians believe holdens are australian and anything with a holden badge on the front sells way better than what it should.

I think recently that Australian branding is actually becoming a negative for Holden. Buyers are becoming more brand snobs and poo-poo Holdens (and Fords) because they think they are agricultural and could never compete with foreign-built vehicles .. Everything built overseas has been painted with the awesome brush, and everything made here is painted with fecal matter. They'd probably sell more Commodores nowadays if they rebadged them as Opels and told people they were German ..

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I am a Ford man through and through, I had a Series II SV6 VE last time I went to Sydney before Christmas and I believe it was a better car then an FG XR6... It felt more solid on the road, regardless of the poor power train it still felt better built and quieter. It also had better leg room and seating position, something the Falcon does very poorly. I could get my long legs in and out of the SV6 much easier then my FG's... I actually enjoyed it, but then it might be just because I am bored with the FG...

You must be getting bored mate...
I have had numourous hire car's, as in FG XR6's and VE SV6's, as for ride, space and comfort and layout and ease or function's I find the FG miles ahead, I may be slighly biased but I was quite interested to try out the VE and see how it compares and I went in with eyes wide open, and the verdict, well to me the FG is a much sound vehicle.

[bad moon rising]

does anybody know roughy how much of commodore sales are due to fleet purchasing? i would be interested to know that.

as far a the ve vs fg issue goes, both cars are nice enough to me, i havnt been in a 6 cylinder ve but ive given a manual ss a drive and it seemed to be a very nice car.it seemed to be a lot better than the previous models with the 5.7L.but i do like the fg turbo as well.
i think commodore styling is probulbly a bit more aggressive than ford at least as far as sv6/ss vs xr6 goes.

im sure fleet is more than likley the reason commodore does so well with sales. im sure that most (but not all!) familes dont need a full size falcon/commodore anymore. people are scared of the price of fuel and the global recession so there down sizing.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by onfire

It looks better. It looks far more modern. Maybe it's the illusion of the VE's stylized size and exaggerated proportions working it's magic on the SV6 or what have you, but it standouts over the FG XR6.

And it's not an anti-Falcon jab. It was the other way around with the BA & BF XR models vs the VY & VZ counterparts.

The VE looks ancient, its pretty much exactly the same as it was when it was released a millenia ago.

Its aged pretty poorly. FG still looks fresh and FG2 has freshened it even more.

And just think the VE still has 1 or 2 more years to go before it finally gets a proper styling update. That will basically make it 8 years old with basically the same look, thats a ridiculous amount of time in automotive terms.

Just shows how much the billion dollar millstone screwed Holden.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by bad moon rising

does anybody know roughy how much of commodore sales are due to fleet purchasing? i would be interested to know that.

as far a the ve vs fg issue goes, both cars are nice enough to me, i havnt been in a 6 cylinder ve but ive given a manual ss a drive and it seemed to be a very nice car.it seemed to be a lot better than the previous models with the 5.7L.but i do like the fg turbo as well.
i think commodore styling is probulbly a bit more aggressive than ford at least as far as sv6/ss vs xr6 goes.

im sure fleet is more than likley the reason commodore does so well with sales. im sure that most (but not all!) familes dont need a full size falcon/commodore anymore. people are scared of the price of fuel and the global recession so there down sizing.

About a 1/4 of commodore sales are private. But remember fleet sales can be distorted when some companies allow employees to chose what ever car they want. i.e. effectively a "private choice" but gets logged as a fleet sale. The company I used to work for did this - there were Porsches and Ferraris which would have shown up as "fleet sales"

full artice here: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...203-1qw33.html

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by weairy

My mother in law has a new SS Wagon, fully factory optioned with all the Walkinshaw crap and one of the first Series II models. I think it's one of the most horrid things I've ever had the misfortune of being a passenger in. Sure, the 6lt V8 had a nice note and a fair amount of go behind it, but my god the thing rode like a 3 wheeled shopping trolley. And with three of us across the back (we're all pretty average built) it was a tight squeeze. Apart from that, I think they're really tacky inside and the Holden IQ system was pathetic (actually went back to Holden for replacement after 10,000km).

My mechanic had an SV6 SI for awhile there and barely drove it because, to him, it had more road noise than my old VT had, and "drives like a horny praying mantis". And he's a devout Holden/Chev lover.

It all comes down to personal preference I suppose. I love my XR6 and I have full intentions of buying an XR6T or GT-P when I'm off my P Plates, and wouldn't ever consider a Commodore over it again.

Well ive had a bucket load of Fords, and driven a few road train loads... The Falcon has a shitful seating position (drivers side, I don't care about passengers). The SV6 handled better then the FG and as I said felt better built.

Each to their own, im not a big Holden fan but I would happily have an SV6 over an XR6, simply for the better seating position, if nothing else.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The VE looks ancient, its pretty much exactly the same as it was when it was released a millenia ago.

.

At least the VE looks different to the model it replaced. Ford have failed to make the FG (I didn't realise there is a FG mk2 until last week) look significatly different to the BA or BF.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The Falcon has a shitful seating position

i've never understood that criticism. so much so, i started a thread on it. quite a few people have no issues with their seating position. i reckon many read it in magazines and form an opinion before they experience it.

Originally Posted by Spammy

At least the VE looks different to the model it replaced. Ford have failed to make the FG (I didn't realise there is a FG mk2 until last week) look significatly different to the BA or BF.

not this chestnut again.

whilst i don't think FG looks like BF2, i don't see a problem with making each new model an evolution of the previous rather than a revolution. have a look at most other brands and models.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Spammy

At least the VE looks different to the model it replaced. Ford have failed to make the FG (I didn't realise there is a FG mk2 until last week) look significatly different to the BA or BF.

Yeah, i'm sure people with vision problems had a hard time.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

i've never understood that criticism. so much so, i started a thread on it. quite a few people have no issues with their seating position. i reckon many read it in magazines and form an opinion before they experience it.



not this chestnut again.

whilst i don't think FG looks like BF2, i don't see a problem with making each new model an evolution of the previous rather than a revolution. have a look at most other brands and models.

Firstly - the seating position in BA/BF and FG falcons is appauling. I'm 6 foot, my wife is 5 ft 7in - niether of us can find a seating position that makes sense in a Falcon + the uneasy relationship between where the seat is and where the door aperture is. They are really unpleasant to get in and out of.

Secondly: I have owned a number of BMWs so I get the concept of evolution of a model. However, there are meaningful and noticable evolutionary steps between BMW models - there is nothing of note between a BF and an FG ....99% of the population would struggle to pick the difference.

[prydey]

i'm 6"2 and find mine very comfortable. my wife is 5 foot nothing and also has no issues. each to their own.

the looks thing is a non event. you are a minority. a very very small minority.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm 6"2 and find mine very comfortable. my wife is 5 foot nothing and also has no issues. each to their own.

the looks thing is a non event. you are a minority. a very very small minority.

However, not as small as the minority who actually bought Falcons last year.

[Auslandau]

Lots of in this thread.

BA to BF .... yes agree, very insignificant to the point of rediculous but B series to F series? Heres another

Originally Posted by prydey

i've never understood that criticism. so much so, i started a thread on it. quite a few people have no issues with their seating position. i reckon many read it in magazines and form an opinion before they experience it.

Glad you actually brought that one up! Have thought this strange for donkeys but thought I must be the only person in the world who thinks the position in the B and F series was good. Didn't want to say so as I thought I would be shot, strung and quartered for saying something positive about a FORD!

Actually had a mate who is Red team through and through ..... had to hire an FG XR6 (VE broke down ) and after a week sheepishly admitted that he way preferred the FG ..... over the Calais? He is 6 foot something I actually asked him about the 'problem' seating and he looked at me stupid .......

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Do others think the taxi stigma impacts on Falcon sales. In the back of my mind I associate being in a falcon with wierd smells, diff whine and loud talk back radio.

Not the sole reason for me not buying a new Falcon but does weigh on my thnking.

I hear this all the time as a taxi driver. There is some truth to what you say but IMHO you have it backwards, if the Commodore, Mazda, Camry etc were any good (in terms of ergonomics, affordability, fixability, fuel economy, getting spare parts and longevity) then THEY would be the majority of the cars you would be riding in as taxis.

The Prius had skewed this a bit lately, it is good for fuel economy but fails most other areas.

Go to Germany, most cabs are Mercedes Benz, I doubt that makes all Merc's rubbish then. Even though they are Merc's they still smell, rattle, bang whine etc like the taxis here.