Whats stopping people from buying the Falcon?

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The VE looks ancient, its pretty much exactly the same as it was when it was released a millenia ago.

Its aged pretty poorly. FG still looks fresh and FG2 has freshened it even more.

And just think the VE still has 1 or 2 more years to go before it finally gets a proper styling update. That will basically make it 8 years old with basically the same look, thats a ridiculous amount of time in automotive terms.

Just shows how much the billion dollar millstone screwed Holden.

I disagree with this, I'm a Ford fan, but I prefer the looks of the VE over the FG.

Never found the seating position in either of my B series a problem nor when I drive the bosses FG either, I actually found with the leather trim in my F6 and the FG that the seats were great for comfort, feel and positioning. There is a chasm of difference between the way the B series and the FG drives and feels driving, almost revolutionary compared.

FG styling is very different to the B series, it is softened a little, and side by side they don't even come close to looking like the same car, I find Euro's and exotics very much keep the same styling, couldn't tell the difference between BMW's, no out there changes, I'm a massive Lambo fan and if that wasn't the case I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the models.

[dkpioe]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

I disagree with this, I'm a Ford fan, but I prefer the looks of the VE over the FG.

Never found the seating position in either of my B series a problem nor when I drive the bosses FG either, I actually found with the leather trim in my F6 and the FG that the seats were great for comfort, feel and positioning. There is a chasm of difference between the way the B series and the FG drives and feels driving, almost revolutionary compared.

FG styling is very different to the B series, it is softened a little, and side by side they don't even come close to looking like the same car, I find Euro's and exotics very much keep the same styling, couldn't tell the difference between BMW's, no out there changes, I'm a massive Lambo fan and if that wasn't the case I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the models.

me too, i disagree entirely. the VE is beautiful, and that view is expressed in the community, and is the reason holden have not needed to update it in 5 years!
when the FG came out, i thought it was a lousy attempt to take the best aspects of the VE and "ford-ise" it. i dont think it worked, and i think the buying publice also didnt think so, it is clearly not as attractive looking.

(I know i will get the regular reply "ford signed off on the FG design before the VE was released" - well i say to you "Holden signed off the VE design before the FG" - and in any case i do not care, i love the holden design, and my last 4 cars have been fords)

My dream aussie car would be the VE body matched to the falcon straight 6 engine and 6 speed auto.

[bad moon rising]

my only problem with fg and pretty much all falcon seating positions is that it is to high, i feel like im always sitting on the seat not in it.

i also think that most hsv seating is a lot more supportive and attractive than fpv.i did like the ba gtp seats but all the other didnt seem much better than standard.

i think a base model ve is better looking than a base fg but i think both look good in there sports models

[onfire]

Originally Posted by dkpioe

me too, i disagree entirely. the VE is beautiful, and that view is expressed in the community, and is the reason holden have not needed to update it in 5 years!

Agreed. Regardless of which badge is on the car, the VE is the better looking vehicle.

A bias towards the Falcon shouldn't naturally occur because it's a Falcon and this a Ford forum. We're Ford drivers, but we're also car lovers, regardless of the brand.

As dkpioe stated, it's a view expressed by the community and largely way the Commodore remained in the top 5, let alone came in 2nd while the Falcon dropped to 9th place overall. Regardless if it's private purchases or fleet sales, more Commodores were sold. And that's solid as a rock fact.

I don't care if and when each model were released, if they sat in a showroom as new on the same date, they're in competition with each other.

- VT & VX trumped the AU Falcon.
- The B-Series with a bag full of awards won out against the VY & VZ Commodores.
- VE takes the win over the FG.

[prydey]

seriously, you can't have a debate on looks. everyone sees things differently. its personal taste. i'm glad you like the look of the VE, but that doesn't mean anything for the next bloke. its like saying blondes are better looking. whilst it may be true for some, its impossible to make that kind of statement for everyone.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by onfire

What's stopping people from buying a new one?

When I was looking for a replacement to our family wagon (Volvo 740Turbo 7 seats, was t-boned but saved my wife), we had a very young family and wanted something very safe. We looked at the Commodore and Falcon Wagons, they just didn't have the comfort levels we wanted, Back seat was shocking.

The Territory was perfect; all the safety gear, 7 seats, easy to drive and park, comfortable. We purchased new.

Second time around, we're keeping the Territory and looking for a second car. The kids are older, and the wife wants something smaller to drive and a sedan.

The Falcon is too big, and she say's looks butch.
She likes the Commodore, but I put my foot down because its a large car and we don't need two large vehicles (though I do like the SS).

The Focus and Cruze are the perfect size, they're big small cars. The whole family has sat in them, and gone for a decent drive. We all fit in comfortably, with plenty of room in the boot for whatever.

If I was going to buy another large car, Falcon or Commodore, I'm not sure I'd buy new. We have the SA Government vehicle auctions close by, and there are quality low km cars there for very reasonable prices. I think I'd buy one of those.

Not sure why; Cruze/Focus I'd buy new, and Falcon/Commodore I'd buy used.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by prydey

seriously, you can't have a debate on looks. everyone sees things differently. its personal taste. i'm glad you like the look of the VE, but that doesn't mean anything for the next bloke. its like saying blondes are better looking. whilst it may be true for some, its impossible to make that kind of statement for everyone.

Well, in the large car market..

With Commodore selling over 40,000 and the Falcon less than 19,000 that means for every bloke buying the FG, two blokes bought a VE each.

source: http://www.caradvice.com.au/153575/v...es-2011-total/

Commodore: 40,617
Falcon: 18,741
Aurion: 8,915
---------------
Total: 68,273

Of the total 68,273 large cars (Comm, Falc, Aurion) sold in 2011, approx 59% were Commodores. 27% were Falcons, while the Aurion picked up approx 13%.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25797C000B1032

These are the facts.

As for looks. If looks weren't important, we'd never see any real styling change, cars would be bland and basic. Forget 17" standard factory alloys, you'd be cruising around on 15" black steal wheels with hubcaps. People would be happy driving the same good conditioned / mechanically OK car for years rather than a constant need to upgrade to the latest and greatest model every 3, as in reality fuel economy in the large car market has barely changed in the last 10 years.

Styling is everything to a vast majority of people, even fleet buyers who again with the intention of upgrading less than 3 years will want to purchase the vehicle with the least amount of depreciation. So if largely one vehicle is an OK car with great looks chances are it will trump the GOOD car with average looks. Case in point the VT v AU.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by Spammy

At least the VE looks different to the model it replaced. Ford have failed to make the FG (I didn't realise there is a FG mk2 until last week) look significatly different to the BA or BF.

You're kidding right?

I've never owned a Ford until my FG. As soon as the FG came out, I knew I wanted one but I never got that feeling with the BA/BF. Sure I liked them but not enough to buy a new car.

The reason I felt that way is because they look significantly different both inside and out.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by onfire

Styling is everything to a vast majority of people, even fleet buyers who again with the intention of upgrading less than 3 years will want to purchase the vehicle with the least amount of depreciation. So if largely one vehicle is an OK car with great looks chances are it will trump the GOOD car with average looks. Case in point the VT v AU.

so, the mazda 3 is the best looking car in australia then??


looks are subjective. there is no argument. just because something is more popular doesn't make it automatically better looking.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by prydey

so, the mazda 3 is the best looking car in australia then??

looks are subjective. there is no argument. just because something is more popular doesn't make it automatically better looking.

No but it is the best car all round currently, sales tell that.

[prydey]

looks aren't subject to price. if all cars were the same price, would the mazda 3 be the highest seller still?

popular doesn't mean best looking in everyones eyes. thats all i'm trying to say. you can't say one car is better looking than another one as that is up to the beholder.

this line of discussion is silly.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

No but it is the best car all round currently, sales tell that.

Was a joke ...... wasn't it?

There are just way to many examples out there that explains why looks are not the reason many choose what they choose ..... Some will say the VE is beautiful .... I say the B series and F series is the far superior looking car. Is that the reason they sell more? Or is it the fact that the Holden badge means more to twice the population than the Ford badge? That more people are sucked in by advertising? That there dads drove Holden so they drive one? Because they drive better? Looks is way down on the list ..... of course important but if it was the number one reason for someone to buy, HSV would be LONG GONE!

[mik]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

No but it is the best car all round currently, sales tell that.

sales don`t always mean that , look at computers back in the 286/386 days, there where better computers out there but due to better marketing on one side and poor the management on the other the poorer choice back in those days won out,
beta max video was a better system than vhs, again better marketing won out, don`t always believe hype, it`s the same for anything.

Onfire: Regardless of which badge is on the car, the VE is the better looking vehicle.

as for the commy being good looking , beauty is in the eye of the beholder, i always thought the ve looked crap, the earlier model was better imo.

[Spammy]

Lots of take away joints can make a better hamburger than McDonalds - but can they build and manage a business that serves 64 million people per day?

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Lots of take away joints can make a better hamburger than McDonalds - but can they build and manage a business that serves 64 million people per day?

only because of lazy, brain dead locals

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

only because of lazy, brain dead locals

Really - so they just lucked into becoming one of the most reckognised brands on earth with 33,000 stores in 119 countries.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Really - so they just lucked into becoming one of the most reckognised brands on earth with 33,000 stores in 119 countries.

again, popularity or majority doesn't = best!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Really - so they just lucked into becoming one of the most reckognised brands on earth with 33,000 stores in 119 countries.

so Spammy..... your saying they sell a lot so it must be qaulity food

[fou_bleu]

Come next year the big problem for the Falcon will be, apart from the XR6T or G6ET for performance, why would you buy one over the new Mondeo? ;)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Lots of take away joints can make a better hamburger than McDonalds - but can they build and manage a business that serves 64 million people per day?

So your saying that Holden are the McDonalds of the car industry (& MAZDA etc included)? Make a crap product but because they are 'clever' sell more? Or is it more to do with what gtxb67 said ....... "only because of lazy, brain dead locals" ?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Come next year the big problem for the Falcon will be, apart from the XR6T or G6ET for performance, why would you buy one over the new Mondeo? ;)

Whats the tow rating on a Mondeo?

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Whats the tow rating on a Mondeo?

Not as much as a Territory ;)

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Whats the tow rating on a Mondeo?

Who cares - anyone who tows anything more than a box trailer of leaves to the tip went off and bought a Landcruiser/prado/etc about 10 years ago.

That boat has sailed.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Whats the tow rating on a Mondeo?

In Europe, the 2.2 TDCI Mondeo is rated at 2,000 Kg but to get the best, you'd need an AWD set up like the new Fusion...
By the time you do all of that, you could stick a V6 diesel in Falcon and offer yet another fuel efficient vehicle..

Or, just offer RWD TDCI Territory at $39,990 drive away, watch them whizz out the door then....
(Something Holden cannot match)

RWD Territory Petrol @ $36,990 and diesel at $39,990 = 2500 sales a month easy..

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

So your saying that Holden are the McDonalds of the car industry (& MAZDA etc included)? Make a crap product but because they are 'clever' sell more? Or is it more to do with what gtxb67 said ....... "only because of lazy, brain dead locals" ?

The theory is that a company who can "sell" and deliver what people want will always beat a company who trys to rely on quailty. People know Macca's is what it is - but they keep coming back for more.

I think the Falcon is a better than average quailty car but its sort of the answer to the question nobody is asking in the car market. Add to this the Ford dealers - they way they swerve and dodge on basic warranty issues and the general lack of interest in customer service does not help sales in any way.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by prydey

again, popularity or majority doesn't = best!

The simple facts.

Regardless of all the possible opinions, scenarios both hypothetical and/or purely statistical and theories and excuses relating to any which way or how, Ford Australia is struggling to sell the Falcon, with it's direct rival the Holden Commodore taking up nearly 60% of the large vehicle market.

It's easily said, there's a growth in the small & mid sized car departments, yet despite a trend towards smaller and more economical cars, the Holden Commodore still remained in 2nd place for 2011.

This isn't an anti-FG bias opinion. It's fact. Purely fact.

And if you really needed a credible argument as it why figures are down. There's no wagon model, nor is there an XR8 to my knowledge. While marketing is either focused on trade vehicles, the Territory & the Fiesta.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by onfire

The simple facts.

Regardless of all the possible opinions, scenarios both hypothetical and/or purely statistical and theories and excuses relating to any which way or how, Ford Australia is struggling to sell the Falcon, with it's direct rival the Holden Commodore taking up nearly 60% of the large vehicle market.

It's easily said, there's a growth in the small & mid sized car departments, yet despite a trend towards smaller and more economical cars, the Holden Commodore still remained in 2nd place for 2011.

This isn't an anti-FG bias opinion. It's fact. Purely fact.

And if you really needed a credible argument as it why figures are down. There's no wagon model, nor is there an XR8 to my knowledge. While marketing is either focused on trade vehicles, the Territory & the Fiesta.

here's a graph for you (yes, i quote it regularly)



to me this shows that commodore and falcon are suffering the same plight. they are both trending the same. notice over the course of the years the gap between them widens and narrows but overall, they are both heading in the same direction. this is why i don't share the same falcon doom and gloom as many on here.

if sales represent an indication of a product that looks better, apparently in december the camry looked worse than falcon, but then in january it looked better.

[brett7777]

Originally Posted by onfire

nor is there an XR8 to my knowledge.

heck, is that right? are the FPV's the only V8's in the range?
didnt realize there were no XR8's, but come to think of it, all Ive seen over here are XR6's

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Really - so they just lucked into becoming one of the most reckognised brands on earth with 33,000 stores in 119 countries.

i was going to suggest that when you appeal to the lowest common denominator, you will never go broke

however, that theory is flawed - how else would holden be owned by the american government. the "mighty" gm empire went broke didn't it and they have only ever catered to the lowest common denominator

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Spammy

The theory is that a company who can "sell" and deliver what people want will always beat a company who trys to rely on quailty. People know Macca's is what it is - but they keep coming back for more.

I think the Falcon is a better than average quailty car but its sort of the answer to the question nobody is asking in the car market. Add to this the Ford dealers - they way they swerve and dodge on basic warranty issues and the general lack of interest in customer service does not help sales in any way.

Not agreeing sorry .... Yes there is a place for cheap nasty crap ..... Macca;s has shown us the way on this ..... but in business I would rather be number 10 but have the quality and in the end, the profits to go with it. Is Mazda playing out to this theory? Better check to see how being number 1 = profit in the car industry.

As far as dealers go ...... I have been buying FORD's new for 20+ years ...... I know dealers and yes there are some problems in ALL dealers, stop reading whats on the Forums and you will find out that there are more damn good ones out there.