Best Last Aussie Wagon

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by arronm

I currently own all the cars we are talking about VE SS wagon , VF SS wagon , Territory TTG and BF3 wagon. The leaf spring wagon drives and rides the worst. Its just an ancient piece of tech that shouldn't be on a car since 1970.

So owning all i think Iam a good judge.

Don't get all defensive. You've perhaps just got different priorities or preferences than others who might appreciate the simplicity, durability or load capacity offered by a well sorted leaf sprung wagon.

That's kind of the problem with this thread. What defines 'Best' isn't universal. It won't be the same for everyone.

I've had a Territory as well. Best car I've ever had, fantastic when new or in a well maintained state but the constant need to be replacing suspension items eventually wears you out.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by arronm

I currently own all the cars we are talking about VE SS wagon , VF SS wagon , Territory TTG and BF3 wagon. The leaf spring wagon drives and rides the worst. Its just an ancient piece of tech that shouldn't be on a car since 1970.



So owning all i think Iam a good judge.

To be fair on the humble falcon, it’s a pretty spartan wagon designed for work duties... where as the others are more ‘premium’ and made for a vastly different part of the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don't get all defensive. You've perhaps just got different priorities or preferences than others who might appreciate the simplicity, durability or load capacity offered by a well sorted leaf sprung wagon.

That's kind of the problem with this thread. What defines 'Best' isn't universal. It won't be the same for everyone.

I've had a Territory as well. Best car I've ever had, fantastic when new or in a well maintained state but the constant need to be replacing suspension items eventually wears you out.

302,000km here Raptor. Suspension just done. I must be a slow learner.

And thanks Arronm - as you own all of them you are in a good position to say what's what. Everyone will have different priorities, mine would be something with reliability, loadspace, and not too painful for long term ownership. I'm also curious for how some of the Holdens have factory E85 tunes.

[arronm]

My VF can run on E85. It has a flex fuel sensor. But its nearly $2 a litre so i dont both. And i ran it a few times and it doesnt add power.

Although E85 is great. My BA F6 runs on it and it increased power at the wheels by over 100HP. My BF F6 runs on 98.

All my cars are tuned for a specific fuel , except the BF wagon , thats stock. Its the family hack. Its the one that goes to the shopping car park


My 2010 TTG had all rear and front diff bushes, control blade bushes and most front suspension bushes replaced under warranty in 2015 at 100k. None were dead just showing some wear.

Even if the territory came in a V8 I wouldnt buy one.. My Tuned up barra in the TTG would smoke it. Folks are running over 500rwkw in territories. You aint going to get that with an N/ A V8

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Yeah im the same here. Agreed.




Also agreed. Great when it works but when it all flogs out its a pain. My Subaru Outback is the same. $1600 quote to rebush the rubbish crap design rear end (ended up buying a wreck for $200 and swapped the backsides over).
This is where leaf springs (or at least live axle) comes into its own and shines!

Its hard for me to vote.
I reckon B series for long term cost, ease of ownership, ruggedness and simplicity, but Adventra for overall equipment, space and versatility and options. Both are decent full size station wagons that we will probably never really see the likes of again.

I do admire Holden more for actually giving things a go building different models!

Anybody know what the backside is like regarding bushes and complexity in an Adventra? ( and if theres a locker available out of curiositys sake?)

Black VZ LX6 - it was about 8 grand, low kms, nice condition. Woulda, coulda, shoulda... driving it, I really enjoyed it, a very fun car to have. It's the little things - the split tailgate (found the switch in the glovebox if I remember) so you could raise the glass but keep the tailgate down. Features like that make you wonder why they didn't get to the cheaper 2wd versions.

https://www.shannons.com.au/club/new...anges-forever/

Great article by Dr John Wright - worth logging in to read it all, he's a big Adventra fan too.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Don't get all defensive. You've perhaps just got different priorities or preferences than others who might appreciate the simplicity, durability or load capacity offered by a well sorted leaf sprung wagon.

That's kind of the problem with this thread. What defines 'Best' isn't universal. It won't be the same for everyone.

I've had a Territory as well. Best car I've ever had, fantastic when new or in a well maintained state but the constant need to be replacing suspension items eventually wears you out.

Agree with all of that Rob ! I love the Terry's front suspension & steering set-up in my AWD BF2 Wagon... it far outweighs the original Falcon front end, in so many ways... but to keep it great, you need to keep feeding it bushes & ball joints etc.. which cost so...o much more than the Falcon units

The RTV leaf sprung back end I have, is basically a heavier duty version of the Wagon's (albeit, with the inclusion if anti-tramp rods) and hardly needs any maintenance at all !

I believe if Ford did do an FG "Sportwagon" with IRS... it would have found a home with those who want a Sedan-like Wagon... but disapointed those who want more of a work horse !??
I didn't buy a Terry for that reason... and I wouldn't have bought an FG Sportwagon for the same reason.
Had they made a leaf sprung FG Wagon including higher spec interiors etc... I would have bought that (just my personal preferance).

Perhaps the thread should ask "what's the best Wagon for you ?"

D

[arronm]

BF wagon has a weight of 1684 kg and a gvm of 2270kg. Vf commodore wagon weight 1850kg with a gvm of 2470kg.

So vf wagon 620kg payload. Bf wagon 586kg. Falcon specs are from the net.

VF specs are from my owners manual.

Will find territory

2047kg. Gvm 2590kg. 543kg payload

My territory carries items better in the cargo area as its taller. When i pickup item i always take the territory and leave the BF wagon at home

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by arronm

BF wagon has a weight of 1684 kg and a gvm of 2270kg. Vf commodore wagon weight 1850kg with a gvm of 2470kg.

So vf wagon 620kg payload. Bf wagon 586kg. Falcon specs are from the net.

VF specs are from my owners manual.

Will find territory

2047kg. Gvm 2590kg. 543kg payload

My territory carries items better in the cargo area as its taller. When i pickup item i always take the territory and leave the BF wagon at home

VF figures aren't correct.
The Ute is only 2385KG.

I don't think Holden ever provided the GVM of the VEs and VFs wagon. It only lists max axle weights which BTW you don't add together to get the GVM.

[XR Martin]

So no official GVM for VF wagon, but best I can find is 550kg payload for evoke, 480kg for everything else.

[arronm]

You are correct. I was wrong. Wagon is 550kg payload.

[davenl5l]

Best wagon has to be the EB Fairmont Ghia V8

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by arronm

I currently own all the cars we are talking about VE SS wagon , VF SS wagon , Territory TTG and BF3 wagon. The leaf spring wagon drives and rides the worst.

….

Compared to my dads PX Ranger, my wagon rides like a cloud of air briskly flowing over the fur of a unicorns back its that smooth.

So its all relative really. Comparing them to what you have I have no doubt its the roughest ride.

In terms of payload, either any of those vehicles will be well on bumpstops at even half the payload max weight.
The difference with falcon wagon is you can bolt in a set of ute 1t springs and it will be perfectly fine at max payload and fine when empty as theyre dual rate where as coil springs simply cannot achieve this.
Of course if you don't carry heavy stuff or tow, this means absolutely nothing.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

People bought Skylines ?

Yep ! not a bad car as well, better than the ugly VN Commodore with that shocking horrible crap chaff cuter V6.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Compared to my dads PX Ranger, my wagon rides like a cloud of air briskly flowing over the fur of a unicorns back its that smooth.

So its all relative really. Comparing them to what you have I have no doubt its the roughest ride.

In terms of payload, either any of those vehicles will be well on bumpstops at even half the payload max weight.
The difference with falcon wagon is you can bolt in a set of ute 1t springs and it will be perfectly fine at max payload and fine when empty as theyre dual rate where as coil springs simply cannot achieve this.
Of course if you don't carry heavy stuff or tow, this means absolutely nothing.

Thats because the Ranger is a truck.

All cars can have upgraded dual rate springs. I have them in the rear of my territory.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by arronm

Thats because the Ranger is a truck.

All cars can have upgraded dual rate springs. I have them in the rear of my territory.

Cant deny rangers ride a little rough empty. But throw 400kgs in the back and then they ride nice. But, thats what theyre designed to do. Wags are are cars.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by arronm

Thats because the Ranger is a truck.

All cars can have upgraded dual rate springs. I have them in the rear of my territory.

Yes. My point is ride quality depends what its compared to.
Its definitely rougher than my other cars (as listed in sig) but I also run 1 tonner springs front and rear (with extra weight as its my touring car) so its just right.

All good mate

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Compared to my dads PX Ranger, my wagon rides like a cloud of air briskly flowing over the fur of a unicorns back its that smooth.

Have you considered marketing? That was epic.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by arronm

. The leaf spring wagon drives and rides the worst. Its just an ancient piece of tech that shouldn't be on a car since 1970.
.

Surprised Ford still fitted wagons that late unlike Holdens, I have had vans with leaf springs since the 70's. I love them cause they are simple, great at handling heavy loads which I carry quite a bit when not using a truck. Coil would be useless in my applications.
One of the best pieces fitted were tramp rods (now illegal) They were great at tightening down the suspension.

and please don't call a Thai ute a truck

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

1978 Mustang was the last one to have leafs

Was that the mighty Mustang II?

Lots of talk about Falcon wagons and putting heaps of crap in the back of them, you know what works pretty well as a work vehicle?

Mercedes Vito

Once you've experienced a nice van, a work ute/wagon sucks in comparison.

Speaking of which, if you skipped the prophylactic use lesson in high school and you need something with 7 seats, nothing beats the mighty van based people mover - Kia Carnival is a beast.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Was that the mighty Mustang II?

Lots of talk about Falcon wagons and putting heaps of crap in the back of them, you know what works pretty well as a work vehicle?

Mercedes Vito

Once you've experienced a nice van, a work ute/wagon sucks in comparison.

Speaking of which, if you skipped the prophylactic use lesson in high school and you need something with 7 seats, nothing beats the mighty van based people mover - Kia Carnival is a beast.

Now I'm feeling ill. Like that TV ad, I've always dreamed of owning a beige 7 seater.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Was that the mighty Mustang II?

Lots of talk about Falcon wagons and putting heaps of crap in the back of them, you know what works pretty well as a work vehicle?

Mercedes Vito

Once you've experienced a nice van, a work ute/wagon sucks in comparison.

Speaking of which, if you skipped the prophylactic use lesson in high school and you need something with 7 seats, nothing beats the mighty van based people mover - Kia Carnival is a beast.

Well, the tread is about wagons, wagons are, well, i was looking for a wagon in 2010 as a personal car, an 06 futura wags, but the prices were through the roof as it was near the point ford pulled the pin on the bf3. So i settled for the greatest fairmont ever, an 08 ghia. Anyhow, my experience with utes and vans for work purposes. Had both. Have a decked out ute at the moment and love it, but hands down, vans are packaged so much better. Something like a benz will put more towards reducing stuff like nvh, but again, theyre not a wagon. A wagon is a car not something designed for load carrying.
My dad always said his favourite car was his 95 futura classic wagon. Second was his 79 xd wagon that was a work car. He had moved on to luxury cars, but you can thow stuff in the back, close the boot and its happy days from there. Luxury cars people get a bit more precious about, but a garden variety falcon, chuck it in she'll be right and job done. I dont think my dads audi ever saw anything in the boot, the jag certainly didnt. But those cars are now just part of the estate.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

Well, the tread is about wagons, wagons are, well, i was looking for a wagon in 2010 as a personal car, an 06 futura wags, but the prices were through the roof as it was near the point ford pulled the pin on the bf3. So i settled for the greatest fairmont ever, an 08 ghia. Anyhow, my experience with utes and vans for work purposes. Had both. Have a decked out ute at the moment and love it, but hands down, vans are packaged so much better. Something like a benz will put more towards reducing stuff like nvh, but again, theyre not a wagon. A wagon is a car not something designed for load carrying.
My dad always said his favourite car was his 95 futura classic wagon. Second was his 79 xd wagon that was a work car. He had moved on to luxury cars, but you can thow stuff in the back, close the boot and its happy days from there. Luxury cars people get a bit more precious about, but a garden variety falcon, chuck it in she'll be right and job done. I dont think my dads audi ever saw anything in the boot, the jag certainly didnt. But those cars are now just part of the estate.

My old man had every wagon made by Holden since EK to HZ new, him being an upholsterer, had the back loaded all year round carrying those huge fabric sample books which he took to show potential clients. I usually sat in the car while he was doing the quotes. My first car was his last Holden, a 79 Kingswood SL Windsor blue wagon.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

My old man had every wagon made by Holden since EK to HZ new, him being an upholsterer, had the back loaded all year round carrying those huge fabric sample books which he took to show potential clients. I usually sat in the car while he was doing the quotes. My first car was his last Holden, a 79 Kingswood SL Windsor blue wagon.

The only holden wagon my dad had he regretted. An 86 camira wagon. My only terrible childhood memory was when the boot opened randomly and all the bikes fell onto the road. But it was car of the year back when new. It may have been an 85, but i cant exactly ask him.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

The only holden wagon my dad had he regretted. An 86 camira wagon. My only terrible childhood memory was when the boot opened randomly and all the bikes fell onto the road. But it was car of the year back when new. It may have been an 85, but i cant exactly ask him.

We never considered a Camira to be a Holden.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As I said they mostly sold wagons to fleets

You could say that about Falcons in general, but so what? Without "fleets" we wouldn't have had a lot of cars.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What would have been the point of making wagons like the sportswagon,

Who said ANYTHING about making a whole new car???

What we're talking about is their refusal to fit options to the cars they were already making.
A V8 B series would have been a matter of changing a code on the production line. (Maybe a different prop-shaft? I can't remember if the utes were still built on the wagon platform)
A Fairmont, just new coverings for the back seat and maybe a few pieces of trim.

As to not developing an FG wagon, like I said probably justifiable.
Although given they had to keep on flogging BFs for another 3 years, I wonder how costly it would have been to graft the existing wagon **** onto an FG?

As for "saving the Flacon," the crazy thing is that they killed off the Territory along the way.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

We never considered a Camira to be a Holden.

Ill pay that, car of the year was a horrid transaxle. My old mans 1990 mitsubishi magna safari wagon, well that takes the cake for worst car ever. 6 months old, 1 reco engine, and traded. But the tread is good wagons, not proverbial pieces.

[Sprintey]

there's lots of vans down on the coast near here, from old hiaces to the new flash VW diesel Transporter types. They have huge load areas and crew can fit full longboards in them. I saw one fella rigged a hammock in the back of his! So for an east coast little longboard wave riding trip they're pretty good. (SA and WA - take a Troopy). And big wave shortboards!

For my 2c, they are big, cumbersome to turn, vision is a mystery without a camera. Pity the fool who has an aging DSG... Sitting high and up front, I think I like a bonnet to look over. I can fit a longboard in a normal wagon (a VY will take nearly 10ft board diagonally if you have something that big - maybe more than 10ft, I'd have to check again). I can see out of a wagon too, great vision. 4speed auto in the later VY/BFs is not the end of finance to repair. Taking a board is not really heavy loading.

But vans do have their place and practicality. They've become the station wagon for people with massive SUPs to take to the beach.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

there's lots of vans down on the coast near here, from old hiaces to the new flash VW diesel Transporter types. They have huge load areas and crew can fit full longboards in them. I saw one fella rigged a hammock in the back of his! So for an east coast little longboard wave riding trip they're pretty good. (SA and WA - take a Troopy). And big wave shortboards!

For my 2c, they are big, cumbersome to turn, vision is a mystery without a camera. Pity the fool who has an aging DSG... Sitting high and up front, I think I like a bonnet to look over. I can fit a longboard in a normal wagon (a VY will take nearly 10ft board diagonally if you have something that big - maybe more than 10ft, I'd have to check again). I can see out of a wagon too, great vision. 4speed auto in the later VY/BFs is not the end of finance to repair. Taking a board is not really heavy loading.

But vans do have their place and practicality. They've become the station wagon for people with massive SUPs to take to the beach.

Vans are the next most practical thing to station wagons. SUVs don't have the load space. 4wds are much the same but way more expensive and uncomfortable. It leaves us with vans. A lot of which are commercial based, but things like the Volkswagen multivan are very nice. And some are four wheel driven too so the possibilities are endless. Same with HiAce. However at a pretty high cost. The iMax vans are probably the best value however not available in 4wd but you can fit a diff lock which will be more than adequate for most applications.
The non commercial based vans like Carnival are also very nice but most people don't like them as they scream soccer mum (even though that's exactly the same image as an SUV).

I still don't understand the SUV craze as a replacement. Dual cabs sure, but not SUV.

And as a West Australian resident, don't take a troopy. Youd be richer, quicker and in less pain pushing a truck over a sand dune than driving one of those poxy overpriced under engineered buckets of scrap. But I guess it helps pick out whos a moron from a distance

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

I still don't understand the SUV craze as a replacement.

Trends are driven by many factors, not all of them logical.

It's crazy just how much is still driven by the USA. Truck based SUVs were previously exempt from the CAFE rules, and even now "SUVs" attract consumption and emissions concessions.

You also have to understand the peculiar and perverse logic that inhabits "Green" minds. It's all about making people feel guilty for being alive, then selling them some pointless panacea.
So selling cars based on performance, handling, or (God Forbid) Rallying-Pedigree, is now strictly taboo. But buying a "SUV" that is pointlessly bigger, heavier, more expensive, and less fuel-efficient than the FWD hatchback its based on, is perfectly ok.

At the smaller end of the market, there is also the issue that many of the micros and sub-compacts, were just too small for Caucasian males and obese females, but puff them up into "SUVs" and problem solved.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

Vans are the next most practical thing to station wagons. SUVs don't have the load space. 4wds are much the same but way more expensive and uncomfortable. It leaves us with vans. A lot of which are commercial based, but things like the Volkswagen multivan are very nice. And some are four wheel driven too so the possibilities are endless.

I've had Transporters for 20 years however when you move into the passenger models, Caravelle and Multivan you start at $60K brand new for a lwb-only Caravelle and Multi's swb & lwb and some with awd go up from there very quickly to high $80ks and above. SUV's start a lot cheaper and when you get to high $80K's you're even into some very nice euros.