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#61 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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If you are running low on petrol do you slow down to use as little as possible until you get to the next servo and then when you have filled go back to the original speed or even faster to catch up? Or do you speed up immediately so you get to the servo more quickly so you don't run out and get stuck on the side of the road......... Not long ago the QLD Government determined that they could not afford to pay all the public servants and had to reduce payroll cost by 10%. Someone suggested a 10% pay cut across the board so all retained their jobs but guess who went bezerk over this idea. Nett result 10% are now unemployed. Tell me how they were helped by their union. George Orwell was right when he wrote "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"....... |
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#62 | |||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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If canning my super fund meant that ethics were returned to business, and wages were reasonable, and cost of living was a function of these items, then I'd be first in line. How many billions of super money was lost recently? Where does that go? Does it just disappear? There seems to be this mentality that everyone is owed something, and as such pay has become more like compensation, like they're doing the world a favour by going to work. |
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#63 | ||
Long live the inline 6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 556
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, a factory worker getting paid 65K per year is not why Australians aren't buying Commodores/Falcons/Aurions. If GMH can guarantee employment until 2022 (which is as long as I believe Holden will be assembling/manufacturing in Australia) for workers if they agree to the proposed changes, then it should be put to a vote, if they can't give that guarantee, them they are just cutting their nose to spite their face. I have little doubt GM will close Holden if they don't get their way, and I have little doubt that GM will close Holden manufacturing after 2022 regardless. The acquisition of Daewoo, spelt the slow demise of Holden manufacturing in Australia.
The Australian correction is now starting, please be prepared people. Manage your debts, many good, intelligent, hard working people will be doing it very tough, in the medium term. We have sold our house to minimize our debt and kept a small investment unit to retire in if things don't look to improve in the next 10-15 years. I believe in what I'm saying, not just posting comments on a forum. It's not the Governments/Unions/big businesses/Joe publics fault. We are all in it together and until we are all part of the solution, it will continue to get worse.
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His 2007 Mazda 6 MPS Leather Pack Hers BFII Ghia |
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#64 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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My thoughts on this is until there is a win-win situation for both sides (unions, workers & manufacturers, suppliers, small business etc), manufacturing in Oz will splutter along until there is common ground between them. Oversea's economic problems have played a bigger role in the inevitable, semi demise of local manufacturing, but instead of standing shoulder to shoulder to find solutions at our end both parties seem more intent on political point scoring, while families on both sides suffer!
I'de like to think if it wasnt election time, this issue would be handled differently by both sides - enough is enough, both sides need to come together now & work as a team. cheers, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#65 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 158
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#66 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melb.
Posts: 320
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Indeed, however based on what I've seen that's never going to happen. Our politicians all appear to be more interested in creating a new series of "The Muppet Show" and giving themselves pay rises than working for the good of the country IMO.
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'09 FG G6ET, 19's & Safety pack <> '08 FG XR6T ute, ZF A6, Lux & tech packs, ASL rev camera, FPV 18" alloys, 6 pot Brembo/PBR brakes |
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#67 | |||
Long live the inline 6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 556
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Quote:
It's making me think in 30-40 years our great grand kids will be moving to China for a better life.
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His 2007 Mazda 6 MPS Leather Pack Hers BFII Ghia |
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#68 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Victoria
Posts: 907
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fte50
Do you and your union colleagues regard the car makers switch to sourcing offshore component suppliers as "Un-Australian"? Have you black-listed imported components because it is "Un-Australian"?
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Fords the family have owned: Model T, Model A, Fordson truck, 105E Anglias, MkI Escorts, MkI Cortinas, MkII Cortina, Zephyr Six, ZC Fairlane, AUII Ute manual, BA XT sedan, Territory TS SZ RWD. |
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#69 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
what i have seen and also taken into account is employers often putting agreed side notes - ( documentation ) saying that we will give a further 1 or 2% increase to workers pay if a productivity goal is met by the employees by a certain date , often at the cost of workers losing a pay claim at the time of eba . Only to be let down by the ceo or manager who signed the eba being terminated with a payout , or moving on when this productivity is reached , therefore the company now flatly refuses to pass it on , which ends up going to court over years and years . / or causing a strike , or workers to get a bad morale , and not trust the business next time they are asked to help the business out . I'n which case all the lovely people come out and bag the union that these very people are members of . YES GEORGE ORWELL was right , visit a yacht club and see how many employees are members of it, or the elite suburbs of sydney residents ,or seats in 1st class at an airliner and you will very much see he was right . i'm not sure if it's the hardest working people who attain all these goodies . |
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#70 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Why should any company be obliged to give anybody a guarantee of any term . that expectation is ludicrous . they can promise the world if they want . but anything can change that . thats what employees need to know , and thats why employees need an agreement with a fair outcome for both sides , if agreements cannot be met . the company folds normally . wage ditching efforts normally end badly . the company folds anyway and workers end up dudded . ( especially with big business . ) bare in mind this concept of the lowest bidders win is not where we got our living standards from in australia . say me and PRYDEY for example where equally qualified and went for a job , he would most likely get the job because he would be happy with enough pay to support his board at home and be subsidised by his parents . he would be satisfied that this is a fair deal most likely . but there could always be someone on a 457 visa , who is happy to share a room with his 12 cousins and will not risk his employer cancelling his 457 visa for complaining that his employer isnt paying award rates of pay , therefore prydey may be forced to start doing chores for his parents as board may be a little too costly for him and so on and so on . so now gtfpv has lost a potential job because prydey will work for less , gtfpv goes and starts mowing lawns for a living , in competition with prydeys brother . doing ok for a few years and suddenly hard times hit , the owners of the properties start asking gtfpv to help them out and cut the prices to mow thier lawn or he'll have to lose the contract . gtfpv considers it , and tries to ask his grocery store if they will accept $260 for a trolly of groceries instead of $300 cause people are doing it hard and he is helping them out by working for less , the grocery company call security , and all the big businesses that gtfpv employs by paying his bill do the same . gtfpv struggles to wonder why big businesses wont help him out , even though he has been forced to help them out and lost work cause he wouldnt take less money . now if he only wasnt a member of a union who got him into all of this mess , the big businesses would 've solved all the problems for the country and the world would be a much nicer place for all . Last edited by gtfpv; 25-06-2013 at 02:29 PM. |
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#71 | ||
Long live the inline 6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 556
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[QUOTE= YES GEORGE ORWELL was right , visit a yacht club and see how many employees are members of it, or the elite suburbs of sydney residents ,or seats in 1st class at an airliner and you will very much see he was right . i'm not sure if it's the hardest working people who attain all these goodies .[/QUOTE]
All good accept for the last bit, we all need to get out of the blame/hate game, we are not a communist country. Some people work hard for their money, some are lucky and fall into it, some are just born into it and others do illegal activities to get it we should only resent the last one. It still doesn't buy you health and happiness. Just a better class of problem. There are many examples of band union officials as there are bad senior managers.
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His 2007 Mazda 6 MPS Leather Pack Hers BFII Ghia |
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#72 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,252
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Quote:
Bit unfair to paste all monetarily sucessfull people with the rich bludger tag as it is unfair to call all blue collar workers stupid and lazy. As I mentioned earlier in an earlier post, this us vs them will destroy the economy, we need to come together listen to one another to solve all the problems. JP |
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#73 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
fairness has been fought hard for , not given by the wealthy . ( ever) and i stand by this . as much as we like to think the saints have the money , it is not the case . those who think they are employed cause thier bosses are doing them a favor . need to think again . Last edited by gtfpv; 25-06-2013 at 02:41 PM. |
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#74 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
Everyone works for someone in some way. But I know what you're referring to and it is a vile generalisation to suggest that "rich" people don't work hard. Your post is just reeking of sour grapes. That people who put in the hours from a young age cannot work towards an executive role that does have a good salary/perks. What is wrong with someone who has completed multiple degrees at university, start at the bottom of a company and work his or her way up to the top and earn the big dollars to run a large organisation? Are you that upset to see successful people enjoy the spoils of their work? Do you know that everyone of these people don't work hard? So you can show evidence of executives and the like lounging about leaving major corporations to run themselves? You're so certain that anyone plucked off the street can run and ensure longevity of a multi billion dollar company?
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#75 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,276
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Same thing will start to happen in construction, the big builders won't be able to afford too build anything because they will have to pay labourers $3000 a week.
Even those little monkeys in the amazon that drink tree sap know that if they take too much the tree will die yet we can't work it out?
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#76 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
please dont take me the wrong way . many many managers and above are working very hard with big responsibility and being burnt too . imagine having a job where you have to cut costs or be sacked . and have to work unlimited hours to keep your job . there are only certain people who can do this kind of work . bad people who have no mercy !!! or idiots who think they are doing the world a favor . these people are forced / or happily voluinteer to give thier own rights of a fair go away as well as anyone underneath them . workers and unions fight for them more so than what they realise . it's capatilism out of control that the priciple of a faIR GO OPPOSES . WHEN YOU GET 1% OF THE POPULATION WITH 98 % OF the wealth . the odds are its bad money . and thats why you dont go in and try and help these people out . they are doing well enough and like a dollar a lot more than you do . sorry for my staunch opinions . do you think most managers whop continually move on after 2 years are seeking a challange , or taking a contract with a bonus at the end of it to do something that a nice man struggles to do . ask yourself if your in upper or middle management , why are you moving on again , or if you a long term employye . why you have outlasted about 15 managers inside 25 years . Last edited by gtfpv; 25-06-2013 at 02:56 PM. |
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#77 | |||
Long live the inline 6
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 556
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Quote:
This is why there is to much conflict in "negotiations" and massive distrust both sides. More pain ahead until we get over this!
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His 2007 Mazda 6 MPS Leather Pack Hers BFII Ghia |
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#78 | ||||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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On top of this you get gouged by power bills because they need to make a profit (its funny that they are paying out dived ends to shareholders) and increasing prices even if there is competition (well in Vic electricity price rises are smaller then NSW/QLD). Now we have water asking to raise prices by another $200 a year (cause $300 was considered to high). Then you have business that is getting inundated with new legislation for environment, OH&S, more tax for workers, super to rise or paid maternity leave, etc etc. Its a big merry-go-round and its been out of control for a long time. Unless cost of living is contained reducing pay for some workers isn't going to solve Holden's issue. Its just easier to threaten your workers with their jobs. No one cared when things were going great guns and everyone is to blame for this.
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Daniel |
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#79 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
![]() the amount of money i paid for this house . i certainly hope they were getting $3000 per week . after all i paid for it and they built it for me . where else should the money go ? to the jet setting bosses ? or the shareholders ? or to all in equal distribution ? Last edited by gtfpv; 25-06-2013 at 03:13 PM. |
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#80 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
Posts: 1,016
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[QUOTE=gtfpv;4789003] .
WHEN YOU GET 1% OF THE POPULATION WITH 98 % OF the wealth QUOTE] This is often quoted but is erroneous. There is more wealth spread amongst the population now than at any other time in the past. Think back to the servile societies of feudal England where Lords owned everything and the serfs worked for them, for example. The vast majority of people owned nothing other than the clothes they wore. Most people own stuff now. The facts are that 1% controls just under 40% of the total wealth globally. This figure is mirrored for the USA (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006...ernationalnews. For proof, look here: http://inequality.org/wealth-inequality/ In the UK it's the richest 10% that own 40% of the wealth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012...ent-wealth-ons) It's fair to say that Australia is more closely regulated and would mirror the UK more than the USA. I can't find any data for Australia. With respect, sorry to kill your propaganda with facts gtfpv. They took me nearly two minutes to find on Google. You make some very good points overall though, and I agree with most of what you have said.
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"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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#81 | ||
Straight Eight
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 2,049
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Goodbye Australian Car Manufacturing - I mean Australian Manufacturing - This country doesn't deserve you if it doesn't want you.
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The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon. |
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#82 | ||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Daniel |
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,276
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Quote:
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FG XR6 Turbo (Manual) - 301rwkws @ 15psi ---------- Rapid Systems Intercooler & Battery Relocation - ID 1000 Injectors - Process West Surge Tank - Venom 100 Cell Bolt On Cat - XForce 3.5 inch Catback - Plazmaman 4 inch Turboside Intake - Crow HD Valve Springs - Glowshift Gauges (Oil temp, Oil Pressure, Boost, Volt) - Malwood Opt 5 - XR50 Interior - FG2 Limited Ed 19's - Nitto Invo's |
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#84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,252
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[QUOTE=Ducati888;4789026]
Quote:
Have a look at the video for a graphic representation on this page http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/news...ome-inequality JP |
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#85 | ||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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lets please watch this video . with the phrase
" UNIONS WILL BE THE DEATH OF AUSTRALIAN CAR MANUFACTURING " in mind .THE CORPERATES have asked workers to help the company out and take a pay cut . now lets think about what people think about who bleeds off societies money . and we will see UNIONS arent acheiving a fair and equitable system that they want . far far from it . and most people bag themselves and believe thAT THE AVERAGE WORKER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DOWN FALL OF THE SYSTEM . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKK...layer_embedded |
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#86 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,543
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if you are only on a 5 figure income, why would you even contemplate a $500k home unless you had some substantial savings or collateral to go toward it. |
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#88 | ||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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I've often wondered that myself.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#89 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,051
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Quote:
what we're discussing is a reduction in pay/conditions. if you want to profit from the good times, you have to be prepared to accept reduction in the bad, in a *free* market. |
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#90 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
I know personally only 5 people who are members of a yacht club. First one is an employee who has never run a business in his life and is not in management. Second one is running a 1 man band business in semi retirement (he has about 10 vending machines) who worked his way up from labourer through to regional manager by working hard and studying in his own time at his own expense and helping his employer reduce costs while actually employing more people before leaving . (These two are brothers and have actually been involved in Sydney to Hobart) Third runs a small second hand car yard specialising in a boutique marque area. Prior to then he was an employee in several large dealerships at low up to mid level. Forth is a guy I went to Uni with who is an accountant and while he now runs his own show was for many years a small then mid cog in one of the big wheels. Fifth also now runs his own show after 20 years as an employee. He now employs about 20 people in an ICT business. Now that I look at it all of them have the same things in common. They all started from nothing. They all worked hard and did whatever they could to improve both themselves and the employers situation. They all learned from their employers and used that knowlege to allow themselves to get ahead. They all have trained or are training others how to do what they do in order to help them improve their lives. They are all appreciative of their current or former employers for employing, training and giving them the chance to improve their lives. None of them constantly complain how it is not fair and it is always someone elses fault when thing do not go their way nor deride those who are above them. They chose to rise up to join rather than try to undermine to pull down. I will have to confirm but I am fairly sure none of them have ever been in a union. On the other hand I have been in a union, the ETU. I saw first hand what it was like, what they really stood for and the bullying tactics against employers, non menbers and not surprisingly union members who questioned some of the more radical actions. If you want to join a yacht club and ride in the pointy bit all you have to do is earn it, just like almost everyone else does. Instead of whinging and moaning on AFF go and improve your education, get some of the more advanced tickets maybe an A.Dip or even an undergraduate degree. In life you can choose to be responsible for your situation or you can choose to let someone else run your life for you. Should you choose the latter whinging and complaining that the ones who chose to run their own lives are doing better than you is not fair will only ever find support from others who choose not to take responsibility for themselves and while they are always noisy never actually do anything positive for themselves, their fellow workers or their employers. Just so you understand what I am saying here, you do not need to be self employed to do this. Most managers and higher paid specialists started at entry level the same as everyone else. The difference is that instead of wasting time complaining they looked for opportunities within their employment or outside and took advantage of them. Life is a grindstone. Whether it sharpens you up or wears you away depends on what you are made of....... Last edited by flappist; 25-06-2013 at 05:40 PM. |
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