Queensland Police Speed Cameras NO Affect to Road Toll..

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

So which part of driving your car do you struggle with??

Sitting behind you 20kph below the limit without losing my ****

Seriously. Laws are meant to reflect the wishes of the populace. Yet despite cars getting safer, speed limits continue to be set far below the design speed or 85th percentile speed. We know that when people aren't constantly watching their speed, they will gravitate toward a travel speed that reflects the road conditions. We know when people are allowed to drive at said speed, their is a smaller speed differential and a greater rate of compliance, and we know crash stats improve when this happens.

Instead, we depress limits as much as possible and proceed to make criminals of the majority of drivers, with minimal positive impact on the crash stats. You may be fine with that, a hell of a lot more people are not. Laws that serve no beneficial purpose to society have no business existing.

[JAJH]

If, like some here state, they 'always' stick to the speed limits may be saving themselves speeding fines but may also be creating a potentially dangerous situation by constantly checking their speed which in turn takes the focus off the road. I think problem is a real issue nowadays when we are so intent not speed our attention is drawn to the speedo rather than the road. For those that have stated you can travel at any speed up to the posted limit is not correct. For example, you travel at 70 in a 100 zone you can still get booked for obstructing traffic. It's not speed that kills, it's the stupid things we do whilst travelling at any speed.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by JAJH

For those that have stated you can travel at any speed up to the posted limit is not correct. For example, you travel at 70 in a 100 zone you can still get booked for obstructing traffic.

You will also fail a driving exam if you go too far below the speed limit.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by superyob

So to the many who decry current enforcement techniques, what's the answer? Also, there is no way to tell whether the camera's are effective or not because of the random nature of humanity. There is no such effective mathematical calculation, surely. Where is the evidence that they don't work. What would be the effect of nil enforcement???

Cameras were never intended to be the answer, they were there to increase revenue (same as parking fines etc) I just wish Govco was honest with the reason why they are there. Plenty of cameras and black spots in my area, yet you never find cameras in black spot areas, simply because the return ($) in not there.

If you want to lower the road toll, its got nothing to do with enforcement and more to do with education. Licenses are too easy to get, new drivers are not required to have professional training

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by SB076

Cameras were never intended to be the answer, they were there to increase revenue (same as parking fines etc) I just wish Govco was honest with the reason why they are there. Plenty of cameras and black spots in my area, yet you never find cameras in black spot areas, simply because the return ($) in not there.

If you want to lower the road toll, its got nothing to do with enforcement and more to do with education. Licenses are too easy to get, new drivers are not required to have professional training

That is what govco are relying on though. Average training with more potential revenue. Imagine if everyone sought training or it became mandatory? The revenue stream would start to dry up and they would reduce the speed limits even more as well as the tolerance to zero in the hope to catch us all out.

Govco won't be honest with their reasons because it will cost them votes at the next election. It's a cash cow that gets passed on from party to party at each election. They know it. Some of us here know it. It's not fair or right morally I agree. But it's the corrupt government and system we live in now, and it's up to us to outsmart this loophole. I have come to realize we are accountable for our own actions. Find a way to beat the system legally.

[theBlake]

Originally Posted by The Monty

If you get a ticket for 63 in a 60 zone, consider these factors using the FACTS. They take 2 ks off for "tolerances". So you were doing 65.

Not in Qld.
You get pinged for exactly what the camera says.
In Vic they take 2km off.

I have never heard of anyone in Qld booked for less than 8+, but obviously I don't know everyone. Be interested to hear other observations. the police won't admit that they have a tolerance and have publicly said so. The law here in Qld is you can be fined for 1+

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by b0son

Sitting behind you 20kph below the limit without losing my ****

Seriously. Laws are meant to reflect the wishes of the populace. Yet despite cars getting safer, speed limits continue to be set far below the design speed or 85th percentile speed. We know that when people aren't constantly watching their speed, they will gravitate toward a travel speed that reflects the road conditions. We know when people are allowed to drive at said speed, their is a smaller speed differential and a greater rate of compliance, and we know crash stats improve when this happens.

Instead, we depress limits as much as possible and proceed to make criminals of the majority of drivers, with minimal positive impact on the crash stats. You may be fine with that, a hell of a lot more people are not. Laws that serve no beneficial purpose to society have no business existing.

So what are a hell of a lot of people doing about it??

Have you submitted reports of your findings to the government law makers for consideration?? Have you applied for a position on a traffic safety advisory committee?? Do you attend local government meetings relating to traffic safety and road design and voiced your opinion??

What actions have you taken in the last 12 months to address these issues??

Or do you just get on an internet forum and have a whinge??

PS I don't think I have ever driven 20km below the limit, or even 10, it is not that hard to drive a car I do it every day pretty easy really.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by The Monty

So many misconceptions that have all been said before.

The government is responsible for laws, and the "everk k over is a killer", police advertise it as they are told to. Also, police dont make up the speed limit.

A speed limit is a speed LIMIT. Its not a speed must. If the speed is 60 you can do any speed up to 60. You dont have to do 60 on the dot.

Speedos are required in ADRs to be correct to within +10/-0%.
This means they can read up to 10% fast, but never slow. If it says you are doing 60 on your speedo, you ARE doing less than 60 unless you have changed diff gears or wheel sizes.

As great as it is to say "sources in the qps said.....to ......", the 3km/h speed leverage is not correct.

If you get a ticket for 63 in a 60 zone, consider these factors using the FACTS. They take 2 ks off for "tolerances". So you were doing 65. Then your speedo is reading faster than you are going by up to 10%. So your speedo would be reading anywhere between 65 and 71. And then people whinge that they get caught for doing "63" in a 60 zone.

Also, I drive a lot of cars in my line of work. All of these cars have a speedo from factory, and a corrected speedo. Hyundais generally 5% out, Toyota 6-7%, Ford and Holden 2%. This is why Toyota drivers always seem to be going under the limit. They are usually doing 4-5% slower than you while displaying the same speed.

I have no idea why it is so hard for people to comprehend these things. It really is all just common sense.

As for the speed kills mantra, consider this.

You are doing 60km/h and hit a tree.

You are doing 65km/h and hit a tree.

Simple physics tells us that more force will be expended at 65km/h then 60. So yes, every extra km/h you do, you are more likely to die if you crash. Grip levels, vehicle stability, aerodynamics erc then all play an additional role at high speeds.

And no, QPS dont have quotas or use the money from tickets in the christmas party fund. Money is collected by the government.

The lesson is, simply dont speed and you wont have to worry. And campaign to your local member if you want things to change.

That will never work.

Would love to know where this idea of quotas and stuff comes from?? I think it's just stuff people make up from what I ca work out. I personally know several people who work as Highway patrol police, and there is no such thing as quotas, was speaking a cop just two days ago about this and he has not issued a ticket in 2 years, wonder how he would go if there were daily/weekly quotas

Originally Posted by theBlake

You are my hero.

Again I think you are going overboard, it's just driving according to the road rules, not a difficult task to do most people can do it.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

So what are a hell of a lot of people doing about it??

Have you submitted reports of your findings to the government law makers for consideration?? Have you applied for a position on a traffic safety advisory committee?? Do you attend local government meetings relating to traffic safety and road design and voiced your opinion??

What actions have you taken in the last 12 months to address these issues??

Or do you just get on an internet forum and have a whinge??

I'm curious as which of the above you've done.

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

PS I don't think I have ever driven 20km below the limit, or even 10, it is not that hard to drive a car I do it every day pretty easy really.

No, not that hard where you live, not exactly teeming with traffic is it ?

[1TUFFUTE]

QUOTAS do exist. Not long ago a private email from a qld head honcho was leaked where he was specifically referring to quotas and telling his guys he wanted at least 8speeding fines per shift, or something along those lines.

And I know a few people who have been done for 1k over the limit....1was in a school zone.

Personally I'm sick of all the "bright sparks" around here puffing their chests about how they don't speed and others saying the limit is the limit so don't speed....or even 1k over will hurt more if you hit a tree. Your a bunch of comedians on a loop for crying out loud. EVERYONE knows simple maths like speed kills, and everyone can read the speed limit sign.....we ALL know that stuff......
The issue is the motive and abhorant lack of legitimate safety improvements to roads and peoples skills. Amoung other things already bought up! It shouldn't need explaining its so obvious

Eg. We drive around my town switching between lanes and avoiding potholes and huge dangerous imperfections in the road surface that we know off. We drive up the highway in the "right" lane, despite the law saying use left lane unless overtaking. But due to my (nerve issue) it's impossible to stay in those rutted bumpy dangerous potholed overdriven left hand lanes. Does that mean I can't go in a car because of my issue? PAH.....me being a few ks over is nothing compared to the dangerous road quality......yet where does all the speed fine revenue go? Not into road safety that's for sure.....oh but speed kills.....yeah...but the goddam roads and lack of uneducated young drivers kill FAAAR more!
Oh and speed kills guys....don't speed.....

[Jess1992]

One of my ex partners is a cop. And while he wasn't given an exact quota, he was questioned when he finished a shift and he didn't hand out many tickets. It's almost like they were questioning him what he was doing if he wasn't handing tickets

[xxx000]

It's always someone elses fault when people get booked: Government, Police, road safety experts, slower drivers, speed limit too low, speed cameras, change in speed limit, etc

Does it really ruin your day being asked to abide by a posted speed limit ?
Is it that hard to take a little bit of personal responsibility for your actions ?

These type of threads with their own very deliberate but unscientific sway on things will pop up regularly

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'm curious as which of the above you've done.

No, not that hard where you live, not exactly teeming with traffic is it ?

I've been away - Love your new avatar!!!

[olfella]

Originally Posted by theBlake

You are my hero.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Or do you just get on an internet forum and have a whinge??

And every time one of these threads appears, you're there whingeing about the whingers.....

[Carrion]

Originally Posted by The Beast

I've been away - Love your new avatar!!!

+1 for that.

Hope you bag one.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by xxx000

It's always someone elses fault when people get booked: Government, Police, road safety experts, slower drivers, speed limit too low, speed cameras, change in speed limit, etc

Does it really ruin your day being asked to abide by a posted speed limit ?
Is it that hard to take a little bit of personal responsibility for your actions ?

These type of threads with their own very deliberate but unscientific sway on things will pop up regularly

You do realise that the punitive action govco takes for minor speed limit transgressions is taking away the responsibility from the driver???

As a corollary, many drivers become fixated on their speedometer and turn into rolling hazards due to their inattention to the road and the conditions.

Do you not realise that it is not possible to be able to drive at the posted limit at all times?

As I've mentioned earlier, there are far better ways of improving road safety and reducing the roll toll substantially than punitive action. Govco however doesn't care for that.

[The Monty]

There is no quota for QPS, no matter what gets "leaked" or rumoured over the internet. You can believe what you want. Ill believe what I know.

You might be sick of us "bright sparks" just as I am sick of the same rhetorical bullplop that comes from the mouths of those that feed off the rumour mill, don't work in the industry or are just plain whingeing. Like every other thread started by the OP.

Im happy for any change to road safety.

But I wonder, of those that tout the "speed kills is wrong", "its not hurting anyone", "govco propaganda" mantra, how many are road engineers? Or have contacted their local member about it? How many of you get to pull dead people (or pieces of people) from cars? How many of you have put together a road safety initiative or campaign and tried to get funding to have it looked at and implemented. I bet not many....

I get it, getting caught speeding sucks. I get it, Germans are allowed to drive fast. Hell, arabs can chop off the hands of other arabs and smoke opium! India doesn't even seem to have ANY road rules!

But this is Australia. Exceeding the speed limit is an offence in Australia, as much as we all hate it. If you dont like it, do something about it. Going on about the same repetitive crap on a forum will get you nowhere except angry and wont solve a thing.

Me? Ill just continue to drive like I do, and when the fines come Ill go "oh crap" and go and pay it. Its only a tax on the dumb. You dont have to pay it if you dont speed...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by The Monty

There is no quota for QPS, no matter what gets "leaked" or rumoured over the internet. You can believe what you want. Ill believe what I know.

You might be sick of us "bright sparks" just as I am sick of the same rhetorical bullplop that comes from the mouths of those that feed off the rumour mill, don't work in the industry or are just plain whingeing. Like every other thread started by the OP.

Im happy for any change to road safety.

But I wonder, of those that tout the "speed kills is wrong", "its not hurting anyone", "govco propaganda" mantra, how many are road engineers? Or have contacted their local member about it? How many of you get to pull dead people (or pieces of people) from cars? How many of you have put together a road safety initiative or campaign and tried to get funding to have it looked at and implemented. I bet not many....

I get it, getting caught speeding sucks. I get it, Germans are allowed to drive fast. Hell, arabs can chop off the hands of other arabs and smoke opium! India doesn't even seem to have ANY road rules!

But this is Australia. Exceeding the speed limit is an offence in Australia, as much as we all hate it. If you dont like it, do something about it. Going on about the same repetitive crap on a forum will get you nowhere except angry and wont solve a thing.

Me? Ill just continue to drive like I do, and when the fines come Ill go "oh crap" and go and pay it. Its only a tax on the dumb. You dont have to pay it if you dont speed...

Don't make be go start up my cpu and quote the article. It DOES exist and it DID happen!!!

As for the rest of your comment.....you just don't get it!read my last post.....I'm actually surprised you didn't quote me as your clearly replying to my comments!

And your attitude to actually getting a ticket flies directly in the face of safety. You act like your speeding means nothing and you don't care about endangering lives.......with that attitude I don't think you deserve a say in the matter! I've not noticed many, if any at all on here that think speeding is fine. It's how they sell it and hypocritical they look when they make no other attempts at road safety. As if speed is the ONLY thing that kills.
Some are so naive!

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by The Monty

There is no quota for QPS, no matter what gets "leaked" or rumoured over the internet. You can believe what you want. Ill believe what I know.

You might be sick of us "bright sparks" just as I am sick of the same rhetorical bullplop that comes from the mouths of those that feed off the rumour mill, don't work in the industry or are just plain whingeing. Like every other thread started by the OP.

Im happy for any change to road safety.

But I wonder, of those that tout the "speed kills is wrong", "its not hurting anyone", "govco propaganda" mantra, how many are road engineers? Or have contacted their local member about it? How many of you get to pull dead people (or pieces of people) from cars? How many of you have put together a road safety initiative or campaign and tried to get funding to have it looked at and implemented. I bet not many....

I get it, getting caught speeding sucks. I get it, Germans are allowed to drive fast. Hell, arabs can chop off the hands of other arabs and smoke opium! India doesn't even seem to have ANY road rules!

But this is Australia. Exceeding the speed limit is an offence in Australia, as much as we all hate it. If you dont like it, do something about it. Going on about the same repetitive crap on a forum will get you nowhere except angry and wont solve a thing.

Me? Ill just continue to drive like I do, and when the fines come Ill go "oh crap" and go and pay it. Its only a tax on the dumb. You dont have to pay it if you dont speed...

I learned a new word today

[1TUFFUTE]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-2...-quota/6632818
Here you go.....this refers to a testing period for the new fining system. It was over a 4-6 week period about 6mnths ago.
A year before that they introduced a scorecard system that covered a range of things for each officer......targets for them to hit.

So instead of testing to see if systems work.....they take advantage of it and encourage fines.......instead of just doing their normal job and fining the speeders and leaving everyone else.
Trying not to be naive myself, I assume the more fines taken during a test period would help bring in the new faster more effecient fining system, and make the Chiefs stats look good too

[buggerlugs]

Geez, thought I was in the Pits, oh, that's right.....................

[Trump]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Or have contacted their local member about it?

Hahahahahahaha, oh wait you're serious. Do you actually think the mouth breathers in Parliament have the capacity or the desire to make positive changes to road safety?

[xxx000]

Your 3rd paragraph says it all and leaves me to ask you..
Do realise the mistake you've made ?

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

You do realise that the punitive action govco takes for minor speed limit transgressions is taking away the responsibility from the driver???

As a corollary, many drivers become fixated on their speedometer and turn into rolling hazards due to their inattention to the road and the conditions.

Do you not realise that it is not possible to be able to drive at the posted limit at all times?

As I've mentioned earlier, there are far better ways of improving road safety and reducing the roll toll substantially than punitive action. Govco however doesn't care for that.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Your 3rd paragraph says it all and leaves me to ask you..
Do realise the mistake you've made ?

I have made no mistake, for there are occasions when one will have to momentarily drift over the posted limit for various reasons. Conversely, in foggy or extremely wet conditions, driving at the posted limit is not possible or safe. As I said, if people drove to the conditions, there wouldn't be an issue. The bureaucracy knows this, but the revenue is their number 1 concern.

[jpblue1000]

Keep speeding and getting caught guys, I cant take another tax increase to pay for societies wants.
JP

[1TUFFUTE]

While we ALL continue to rack up the death toll largely due to rubbish roads,uneducated drivers....oh and occasionally speed.....

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by JAJH

For example, you travel at 70 in a 100 zone you can still get booked for obstructing traffic. [...]

Ouch! Not the case in Victoria thankfully.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by SYZ

Ouch! Not the case in Victoria thankfully.

As an ex Victorian copper, I can assure you, yes you can. Just because you may never heard of anyone getting booked doesn't mean the offence doesn't exist.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

While we ALL continue to rack up the death toll largely due to rubbish roads,uneducated drivers....oh and occasionally speed.....

What additional driver education courses have you undertaken and how much did they cost?