VFACTS - July 2024

[kevino]

JpD
But haven’t Ford Europe followed Usa instructions to withdraw from segments?

Both probably didn’t anticipate Bev take up being slow and also consumer resistance to higher price vehicles

I think Ford Europe is on a slippery slope to extinction

Real sad their engineers and designers made some cracking cars right up to the current Puma

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

JpD
But haven’t Ford Europe followed Usa instructions to withdraw from segments?

Both probably didn’t anticipate Bev take up being slow and also consumer resistance to higher price vehicles

I think Ford Europe is on a slippery slope to extinction

Real sad their engineers and designers made some cracking cars right up to the current Puma

Exactly what I said in my second paragraph, Ford Europe followed Dearborn instructions to make
Ford Europe more profitable and now it looks like it blew up in their faces, I do feel for them.
Hopefully, there’s a bit of a reset with some decent products for dealers to sell and service

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Exactly what I said in my second paragraph, Ford Europe followed Dearborn instructions to make
Ford Europe more profitable and now it looks like it blew up in their faces, I do feel for them.
Hopefully, there’s a bit of a reset with some decent products for dealers to sell and service

Ford at head office level have long and not-so-proud history of trying to control markets and brands they have no clue about. What works in the US home market doesn't always translate into other markets.

One Ford - somehow other car companies manage to make a car for the whole world, but for some reason it alludes US car makers. One Ford had merit, but it never worked did it. Focus would have to be the most obvious, trying to balance the European and American needs in a small car delivered a deeply flawed vehicle. The Mondeo ended up being taken down-market in terms of quality, which was at odds with the European flagship statis, whereas the Fusion twin was a fleet hack.

Jaguar-Landrover-Aston Martin-Volvo - while Ford brought money to the table, old habits die hard and Ford attempted to nickel and dime these brands the same as they would have done with the mother brand. Ford simply didn't understand how to run these upmarket brands, from a financial management point of view, but from a brand image and product point of view. Most notable being the retro styling they insisted on for Jaguar, it simply played to an aging customer base and didn't bring fresh blood to the brand, so Jaguar treaded water and didn't flourish. Excluding Jaguar, and perhaps Aston Martin, Landrover and Volvo have flourished under Indian and Chinese control.

Ford Australia - I think we all know how this ended, but not without a fight. There were far too many occasions to note where Ford US tried to impart US-market know-how onto the Australian team, and time and again Ford Australia proved them wrong. Downsized Falcon replacement (early-80's), FWD Falcon replacement (Taurus), a downsized and imported V6 (mid 90's and late 2000's)......................and on and on. Then the revolving door of Americans sent to run Ford Australia, all either failed or failed to do what their US overlords wanted..........use an existing platform/vehicle or shut it down. Only one was successful, but it cost him his career at Ford............Robert Graziano. I think we all hated him at the time, but no one wanted that responsibility of closing three factories and firing all the staff.

Ford are hardly unique in this regard, GM have a long history of driving brands into the ground as well, mainly because they had no clue what they were doing. Saab, Holden, Vauxhall and Opel..........................

[Dr Smith]

Our household is in the same boat....my wife is making more noise about not wanting to drive the Territory anymore and something smaller.......nothing in a Ford dealership apart from Mustang and Puma a size too small...and selling/trading the Terry (for me) would be like deciding which finger needs 2cm cut off...I even dropped in to a Ford dealer to check out the new Transit Custom just so maybe I get some new Ford...my Vito was serviced yesterday and they gave me an A180 loaner...wife drove if for 15 mins....said yeah nice but even she thought it was too low and small...I sarcastically replied ..that's because a friggin Territory has fantastic driving position even for a 5'2" wifey like you....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Our household is in the same boat....my wife is making more noise about not wanting to drive the Territory anymore and something smaller.......nothing in a Ford dealership apart from Mustang and Puma a size too small...and selling/trading the Terry (for me) would be like deciding which finger needs 2cm cut off...I even dropped in to a Ford dealer to check out the new Transit Custom just so maybe I get some new Ford...my Vito was serviced yesterday and they gave me an A180 loaner...wife drove if for 15 mins....said yeah nice but even she thought it was too low and small...I sarcastically replied ..that's because a friggin Territory has fantastic driving position even for a 5'2" wifey like you....

Suzuki S-Cross

Bigger than Puma
Smaller than Territory

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Suzuki S-Cross

Bigger than Puma
Smaller than Territory

Yep or Hyundai Kia Toyota Mazda offerings at mid size a plenty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Our household is in the same boat....my wife is making more noise about not wanting to drive the Territory anymore and something smaller.......nothing in a Ford dealership apart from Mustang and Puma a size too small...and selling/trading the Terry (for me) would be like deciding which finger needs 2cm cut off...I even dropped in to a Ford dealer to check out the new Transit Custom just so maybe I get some new Ford...my Vito was serviced yesterday and they gave me an A180 loaner...wife drove if for 15 mins....said yeah nice but even she thought it was too low and small...I sarcastically replied ..that's because a friggin Territory has fantastic driving position even for a 5'2" wifey like you....

There are some demo Escape's still kicking about. Or new PHEV version.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Yep or Hyundai Kia Toyota Mazda offerings at mid size a plenty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shame that Ford pulled out of everything except one or two segments,

The whole shamozzle around Ford Europe ****es me off the most because Ford Europe made next level small cars, no one else comes close with driving experience and how they stop, turn and go.

Throttle response that reads your mind, tiniest movement of the steering wheel and the car moves.

Just majestic cars,

Then head office decides to take to it with an axe, and cut their strength of Ford Europe.

No more Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, assume their engineers went with them too.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Shame that Ford pulled out of everything except one or two segments,

The whole shamozzle around Ford Europe ****es me off the most because Ford Europe made next level small cars, no one else comes close with driving experience and how they stop, turn and go.

Throttle response that reads your mind, tiniest movement of the steering wheel and the car moves.

Just majestic cars,

Then head office decides to take to it with an axe, and cut their strength of Ford Europe.

No more Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, assume their engineers went with them too.

The same can be said for the Falcon. Pretty much nothing that offered the same level of driving dynamics, engine performance and comfort that wasn’t compromised for the price.
But some accuse those of living in the past and to get with the times if they point it out.
Now we’re stuck with dead boring car based SUVs across the board. Touted as decent vehicles because of the touch screen size or the ability to keep itself between two white lines to make up for drivers wandering attention from the mind numbing drive.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by prydey

There are some demo Escape's still kicking about. Or new PHEV version.

lol
There’s a zillion PHEV Escapes on car sales for Bris
You have to wonder why
Don’t think they are any good perhaps

[kevino]

Originally Posted by smoo

The same can be said for the Falcon. Pretty much nothing that offered the same level of driving dynamics, engine performance and comfort that wasn’t compromised for the price.
But some accuse those of living in the past and to get with the times if they point it out.
Now we’re stuck with dead boring car based SUVs across the board. Touted as decent vehicles because of the touch screen size or the ability to keep itself between two white lines to make up for drivers wandering attention from the mind numbing drive.

You have been watching that Haval Jolion Hybrid tv ad where the adas systems surround the car in a ‘safety bubble’ in a tropical rain storm
Pigs **** Haval
The coy I volunteer for have a dozen of these lion hybrids
Haven’t spoke to one driver who likes them
All they do is
Beep beep beep beep
Whoops there’s a tram

Beep beep beep
Whoops driver looked away from Rd at side mirror

Beep beep beep

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kevino

lol

There’s a zillion PHEV Escapes on car sales for Bris

You have to wonder why

Don’t think they are any good perhaps

Why would I buy a smaller PHEV when I can get a bigger EV for less or similar money (Model Y)

[kevino]

Originally Posted by kypez

Why would I buy a smaller PHEV when I can get a bigger EV for less or similar money (Model Y)

Exactly!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by kevino

Exactly!

Don't think the car itself is bad, just a terrible value proposition.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Don't think the car itself is bad, just a terrible value proposition.

Bit of that going on

Mustang Mach E - $15,000 more than Model Y

Then they scratch heads why it doesn't sell,

You couldn't be that stupid, surely it's an intentional hit job on Ford Australia to say SEE WE OFFER OTHER VEHICLES AND YOU DON'T BUY ANYTHING OTHER THAN RANGER!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Bit of that going on



Mustang Mach E - $15,000 more than Model Y



Then they scratch heads why it doesn't sell,



You couldn't be that stupid, surely it's an intentional hit job on Ford Australia to say SEE WE OFFER OTHER VEHICLES AND YOU DON'T BUY ANYTHING OTHER THAN RANGER!

Difference is that with Ranger, they can ask the price premium and people are buying them. Unfortunately, the same strategy isn't going to work for any other segment

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Difference is that with Ranger, they can ask the price premium and people are buying them. Unfortunately, the same strategy isn't going to work for any other segment

Ford is the Daewoo of EVs - newcomer to the market and they think they can sell their EV on training wheels at premium pricing compared to the very experienced market leader,

Surely if you were Tesla you would have chortled when you saw Mustang Mach E pricing.

I think Ford forgets it's Ford, not BMW/Mercedes and its EV is a beta test that they expect customers to pay premium pricing for.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Why would I buy a smaller PHEV when I can get a bigger EV for less or similar money (Model Y)

Not suggesting it's priced right but hybrids are having a mini resurgence at the expense of EV's.

Not sure if it's rational logic (haven't looked in to it) but people see it as the best of both worlds.

[kevino]

Quote day on the tools Damo

[kypez]

Originally Posted by prydey

Not suggesting it's priced right but hybrids are having a mini resurgence at the expense of EV's.



Not sure if it's rational logic (haven't looked in to it) but people see it as the best of both worlds.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread

"Toyota said they'd stop selling ICE without Hybrid in the passenger segment (yaris, corolla, camry, RAV4, anything up to Kluger inclusive). So the numbers increase to hybrids aren't people going out to buy hybrids, its just that they are buying Toyota's that are all hybrids now .i.e. It is not a change in buying behaviour.

You literally can't buy a non hybrid passenger Toyota"

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kevino

lol
There’s a zillion PHEV Escapes on car sales for Bris
You have to wonder why
Don’t think they are any good perhaps

Using that logic the same applies to Puma

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kypez

I mentioned this earlier in this thread

"Toyota said they'd stop selling ICE without Hybrid in the passenger segment (yaris, corolla, camry, RAV4, anything up to Kluger inclusive). So the numbers increase to hybrids aren't people going out to buy hybrids, its just that they are buying Toyota's that are all hybrids now .i.e. It is not a change in buying behaviour.

You literally can't buy a non hybrid passenger Toyota"

Haven't EV sales taken a slump though in recent times, compared with months/years of market growth?

[kevino]

I was only talking about the PHEV model

The Escape petrols and Puma petrols are great cars as you know

And the PHEV so few sold you would have to wonder about support - parts in the future

[kypez]

I recently was helping a friend buy a car in that Puma segment. The Kona was so much more car for the money and the drive was more than acceptable. Rear seat headroom was fantastic as well. Escape is significantly more expensive.

I couldn't, in good conscience, recommend the Ford product.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by prydey

Haven't EV sales taken a slump though in recent times, compared with months/years of market growth?

EV sales are up 8% same time Year to Date compared to last year. July was just a slow month given how the boats arrive.

Media hyped the July figure but buried in the notes is the Year to Date number with the increase.

Quote from drive (never let facts come in the way of a good story):

"However, battery-electric vehicle sales have taken a hit in recent months, and July’s figures showed that trend to be continuing, with an 41 per cent drop compared to July 2023 (4048 v 6846). Year-to-date though, numbers are still increasing, with data showing they are 8.7 per cent up (54,267 v 49,938)."

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Quote day on the tools Damo

TAFE day - helping domestic electrical apprentices with practical applications of magnetism

Means I've got plenty of spare time to discuss the finer points of the relationship between Ford USA and Ford Europe/Australia

[kevino]

Originally Posted by kypez

EV sales are up 8% same time Year to Date compared to last year. July was just a slow month given how the boats arrive.

Media hyped the July figure but buried in the notes is the Year to Date number with the increase.

Quote from drive (never let facts come in the way of a good story):

"However, battery-electric vehicle sales have taken a hit in recent months, and July’s figures showed that trend to be continuing, with an 41 per cent drop compared to July 2023 (4048 v 6846). Year-to-date though, numbers are still increasing, with data showing they are 8.7 per cent up (54,267 v 49,938)."

The ev sales figures bounce about a little bit
Some major ev brands have ships delivering their cars spprox each two
Months
One month down
Next month up
But overall per centage on an upwards trajectory

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

EV sales are up 8% same time Year to Date compared to last year. July was just a slow month given how the boats arrive.

Media hyped the July figure but buried in the notes is the Year to Date number with the increase.

Quote from drive (never let facts come in the way of a good story):

"However, battery-electric vehicle sales have taken a hit in recent months, and July’s figures showed that trend to be continuing, with an 41 per cent drop compared to July 2023 (4048 v 6846). Year-to-date though, numbers are still increasing, with data showing they are 8.7 per cent up (54,267 v 49,938)."

I hated maths at school, but when they introduced me to statistics in year 11 I was amazed.

Because you can use it to misrepresent everything and sell a bullshit story by how you frame your snapshot of data

I should have been an automotive journalist propagandist.

EV sales are down!

*for this specific comparison but they're actually up long term

[prydey]

https://data.aaa.asn.au/ev-index/

EV sales, while still increasing have definitely softened. 1-2 years ago there was a big surge as more and more manufacturers entered the market and prices came down.

Sales have softened since. Hybrids appear to be having a surge but too early to say if it will continue longer term. While a lot is simply Toyota sales, it's not all of it.

Having said that PHEV aren't really showing a big change so perhaps it is largely the Toyota effect.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I hated maths at school, but when they introduced me to statistics in year 11 I was amazed.

Because you can use it to misrepresent everything and sell a bullshit story by how you frame your snapshot of data

I should have been an automotive journalist propagandist.

EV sales are down!

*for this specific comparison but they're actually up long term

3 types of lies.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Propaganda types love statistics because they can use bigger numbers.

Especially when it comes to risk assessment on the road. The chances of having a crash are quite low. Miniscule actually. If you change a variable the chance increases but still overall it's a small chance. If you report it as a percentage though, you can say the risk increase is (insert much larger figure here)!

MAC are experts at this. I believe non compliance is high because they treat people like idiots.