Preliminary VFacts December 2015

[blk6t]

I think Holden's Commodore is still very competitive, while Holden is not the biggest selling brand, it's holding it's own with a good large Aussie built car with the rest of the range being very average.

I still think if GM could continue the VF's evolution overseas and import at competitive prices, the RWD Commodore could live on (with a V8 option).

In the blue camp, I think the Mustang needed to replace the Falcon. The brand now needs a good range to sit along side the stang (Ranger excluded as it's a fantastic vehicle).

[Trump]

Originally Posted by blk6t

I think Holden's Commodore is still very competitive, while Holden is not the biggest selling brand, it's holding it's own with a good large Aussie built car with the rest of the range being very average.

I still think if GM could continue the VF's evolution overseas and import at competitive prices, the RWD Commodore could live on (with a V8 option).

In the blue camp, I think the Mustang needed to replace the Falcon. The brand now needs a good range to sit along side the stang (Ranger excluded as it's a fantastic vehicle).

Agreed, however the Ford product lineup isn't the issue, public perception of the brand is.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I think we need to take a breather.

What I think some of the posters are alluding to is that Ford is to blame for the situation it is in. The brand is toxic for multiple reasons (the "they all do that attitude", the general dealer experience, a non-existent marketing team, zero support from HQ to name just a few). Enthusiasts may know the worth of the actual product and espouse the virtues of said product on forums such as this one, but all Joe Public has to go on is what they see, hear and feel in a dealership.

Had Ford Australia (with the required support from HQ) taken the right measures, Falcon would still be moving 3,000 units a month, Ranger would be built here and outsell Hilux (with an export market to boot) and with an aftersales support system that was second to none.

But no, what we have is but a shell of the Blue Oval we once knew instead.

If Holden can't move 3000 GFs with very well specced sedan, Ute, and wagon (6 and 8 cylinder engines) how could Ford move that sort of volume in Oz?? Even with help from Detroit?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by flooded one

the problem is not the extended warranty cover itself. Its honoring the warranty that's the problem. A lot of people are getting swept under the rug with this issue. I could understand if it was a few complaints here and then about the powershift transmission. yes things can go wrong and you do the idiots that do damage the cars themselves (Happens alot) but when you get 100's of complaints and people threatening to sue. It doesn't do the world of good for Ford's image. Its good they've done something but is it too late and is it enough??? People shouldn't be treated like garbage after spending their hard earned cashed on a brand new car. Regardless of make, model or specification

The power transmission issues are a good argument as to why we need lemon laws. That all said, if Ford was looking long term, they would have replaced the cars with new ones with the newer transmission.

They might save some money by essentially fobbing these customers off for the next five years of the warranty, but ultimately the price Ford pays in damage to the brand, far outweighs the cost of a replacement car for that customer. It is a lesson Ford is yet to learn and desperately needs to.

[Windsor220]

Transmission issues didn't seem to hurt VW. The Golf is still selling close to 2000 a month. Shows how much brand perception changes things.

[Spammy]

Focus, fiesta, Mondeo would all be big sellers if you could buy them with a Mazda or Hyundai badge thru a mazda or Hyundai dealer.

I'm would probably buy one thru a Mazda dealer even if it still had the ford badge on it.

[mick74GT]

Originally Posted by tempted

Ford is not out of touch yet they've just recorded their worst yearly sales result since the 1960's??? Ok...
Good luck to them with their imported garbage because there is only one way they're going and that's down.

I don't need to bad mouth Ford to sink them. They seem to be doing a stellar job of that themselves.

Apart from the XB I have an E3 Maloo that was my daily/company car. Fantastic car. But I needed something with more than 2 seats and a bit more family friendly.

I ordered a new Wildtrak and i picked it up last week and it is a sensational vehicle. if I was going to buy a sedan or wagon I would have bought a Gen F HSV. The falcon wasn't even a consideration for me.

The point is that I was and am an active buyer and 10 years ago I wouldn't have bought anything in fords lineup. I've always loved my old fords but to be honest post 1989 none of the Falcons did anything for me.

I love the Maloo and I really thought I would miss it but I don't at all.
The Ranger is that good. The ranger got me to do what no falcon had been able to. I bought a brand new ford. This is exactly why ford have gone in the direction they have I suppose.

I understand the sadness regarding the falcon finishing up. I really do.

But the perception of ford will and is changing for the better.

Just my honest opinion

[Spammy]

Best thing Mitsubishi did was drop the Magna, the lingering smell of death does little to help sell other cars in the showroom.

[Eurotrash]

New guy here ... 1st post!

Getting back to whole DEMO thing ... in Ford's defence, Ford don't put a lot of DEMO's on. I work for an auto group that houses a lot of different brands, with Ford, Mazda and Hyundai being a few of them. I was the Ford stock controller, now I'm stock control for our Mazda dealership and I can tell you, every Ford dealership was only allowed to put on so many DEMO's for each quarter of the year and every dealers DEMO count was different. For example, our DEMO count for the 1st quarter of the year (Jan - Mar) would be 10 units, meaning we could only put 10 DEMO's on during that period. If we went over the that amount, we wouldn't get any of the bonuses on those cars. The 2nd quarter we would get a new total, maybe 12, so then we would only be allowed to put 12 DEMO's on for that quarter (Apr - Jun).

With Mazda, the more DEMO's we put on, the more kickbacks/bonuses we get from Mazda Australia, there's no limit! Hyundai is the same and sometimes they're left with cars that are 12 months old and still haven't sold as a DEMO. Hyundai also has very thin margins, especially with the outgoing i20, i30 and Elantra. We've had sales people move from our Hyundai dealership, over to our Mazda dealership and can't believe the money the Mazda guys can make.

Mazda are also moving more of their production to Thailand. Soon all Mazda 2 production, 5dr hatch and the 4dr sedan, will be sourced from Thailand, the BT-50 is already imported from there, but another car that will also be switching to Thai production, will be the CX3, which we've already placed our orders for and there is talk of the Mazda 3 also coming from Thailand, but I'm not sure when??

[Spammy]

The majority of people don't give a hoot where their Mazda is assembled...as long as rpt he sticker price is attractive.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

New guy here ... 1st post!

Getting back to whole DEMO thing ... in Ford's defence, Ford don't put a lot of DEMO's on. I work for an auto group that houses a lot of different brands, with Ford, Mazda and Hyundai being a few of them. I was the Ford stock controller, now I'm stock control for our Mazda dealership and I can tell you, every Ford dealership was only allowed to put on so many DEMO's for each quarter of the year and every dealers DEMO count was different. For example, our DEMO count for the 1st quarter of the year (Jan - Mar) would be 10 units, meaning we could only put 10 DEMO's on during that period. If we went over the that amount, we wouldn't get any of the bonuses on those cars. The 2nd quarter we would get a new total, maybe 12, so then we would only be allowed to put 12 DEMO's on for that quarter (Apr - Jun).

With Mazda, the more DEMO's we put on, the more kickbacks/bonuses we get from Mazda Australia, there's no limit! Hyundai is the same and sometimes they're left with cars that are 12 months old and still haven't sold as a DEMO. Hyundai also has very thin margins, especially with the outgoing i20, i30 and Elantra. We've had sales people move from our Hyundai dealership, over to our Mazda dealership and can't believe the money the Mazda guys can make.

Mazda are also moving more of their production to Thailand. Soon all Mazda 2 production, 5dr hatch and the 4dr sedan, will be sourced from Thailand, the BT-50 is already imported from there, but another car that will also be switching to Thai production, will be the CX3, which we've already placed our orders for and there is talk of the Mazda 3 also coming from Thailand, but I'm not sure when??

Solid first post, welcome

(No snark, I mean it )

You'd be well placed to have a valuable opinion - Do you believe Ford planned their exit well before its announcement, and slowly eroded the business internally, as part of a strategy to avoid a PR nightmare of withdrawing from a seemingly sustainable (or at least salvageable) business?

[Kieron]

The answer is simple Shonky. mullaly introduced theOne Ford concept back around 2008'ish, that spelt the end of the Falcon regardless of what the sales were or what the Aussie governments did, so yes it was planned well before the announcement.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Focus, fiesta, Mondeo would all be big sellers if you could buy them with a Mazda or Hyundai badge thru a mazda or Hyundai dealer.

I'm would probably buy one thru a Mazda dealer even if it still had the ford badge on it.

They could put the Telstar badge on the Mazda 3 ?? did it before ...

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by OP

Toyota Camry 5320
Toyota Corolla 3470
Mazda3 3450
Toyota HiLux 3130
Ford Ranger 2840
Holden Commodore 2620
Mitsubishi Triton 2140
Hyundai i30 2000
Mazda CX-5 1920
Hyundai Tucson 1630

Apart from the spike in Camry sales there's a few class battles here:

Hilux & Ranger vying for #1 in their class, with the Triton trailing in a (strong) third place.

Ditto for Corolla & Mazda3 vying for #1 with the i30 in a strong 3rd.

CX-5 & Tuscon don't have such a close gap, & I'm surprised the X-Trail/RAV4 aren't there. Maybe they're in the low teens.

The Camry spike, and the Commodore appear to be the odd ones out in the list when you can see where the Aussie market is heading. Great results for both though in today's world.

I wonder where the Everest & Fortuner will sit next year; will they be regulars in the top 10? Or will they be considered too niche, compared against their "mainstream" Ranger/Hilux cousins?

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by csv8

They could put the Telstar badge on the Mazda 3 ?? did it before ...

Telstar was a rebadged Mazda 626, not 323.

[russellw]

The first set of graphical statistics for December have been uploaded to the Tech portal now.

Cheers
Russ

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by russellw

The first set of graphical statistics for December have been uploaded to the Tech portal now.

Cheers
Russ

Onya Russ!!!

[csv8]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Telstar was a rebadged Mazda 626, not 323.

Then, the Mondeo as a Mazda!!!

[russellw]

The Annual Summary for 2015 has also been uploaded into the Tech Portal now.

Cheers
Russ

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Solid first post, welcome

(No snark, I mean it )

You'd be well placed to have a valuable opinion - Do you believe Ford planned their exit well before its announcement, and slowly eroded the business internally, as part of a strategy to avoid a PR nightmare of withdrawing from a seemingly sustainable (or at least salvageable) business?

Thanks for the welcome.

Kieron in the above post said it perfectly, their exit from local manufacturing had been planned for years.

I always found it strange that our allocation for Falcon production kept going down month after month or sometimes staying at the same level, but we were never allocated a lot of Falcon production in the first instance. Then you'd hear Ford say that they have to scale back production to keep with market demands. The funny thing was though, of course they had to keep scaling back Falcon production, because they were deliberately not allowing their dealers to access as many units as they needed, then together with next to no advertising the Falcon began a slow death. In some months, it was so hard to try and get a Falcon from another dealer (Dealer Swaps), we'd have to order one months in advance. Most dealers wouldn't give up their Falcon and especially an FPV, if you didn't have one to give back and in the end, it was the same with the diesel Territory, it became too hard. Most times we'd be lucky if we had 2 or 3 Falcons just sitting there in stock. Nearly all Falcons and FPV's we received, were already sold. XR6's, G6E's and FPV's were mainly private purchases, while the XT was pure fleet.

But to cut a long story short, Ford did this slowly to eroded the business internally, as you've said. It was all in the plan with One Ford. Australia didn't figure in their plans.

[Ford Falcon XR6]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

Thanks for the welcome.

Kieron in the above post said it perfectly, their exit from local manufacturing had been planned for years.

I always found it strange that our allocation for Falcon production kept going down month after month or sometimes staying at the same level, but we were never allocated a lot of Falcon production in the first instance. Then you'd hear Ford say that they have to scale back production to keep with market demands. The funny thing was though, of course they had to keep scaling back Falcon production, because they were deliberately not allowing their dealers to access as many units as they needed, then together with next to no advertising the Falcon began a slow death. In some months, it was so hard to try and get a Falcon from another dealer (Dealer Swaps), we'd have to order one months in advance. Most dealers wouldn't give up their Falcon and especially an FPV, if you didn't have one to give back and in the end, it was the same with the diesel Territory, it became too hard. Most times we'd be lucky if we had 2 or 3 Falcons just sitting there in stock. Nearly all Falcons and FPV's we received, were already sold. XR6's, G6E's and FPV's were mainly private purchases, while the XT was pure fleet.

But to cut a long story short, Ford did this slowly to eroded the business internally, as you've said. It was all in the plan with One Ford. Australia didn't figure in their plans.

Very interesting mate, funny you should say that my auntie and uncle was looking to upgrade their AU falcon to an FG I think it was an 2010 or 2011. They were very happy with their Au and wanted to buy another falcon. They wanted to order a Red fg xr6 and got told some sort of ridiculous waiting period (3 months if I remember correctly) they could have had another colour that they had in stock but if they wanted a red one they'd have to wait. They ended up going to holden and getting a red VE sv6 in 2 weeks. I think if ford stuck with it the falcon would still be in the top ten like the commodore. Inside job through and though now they have to deal with the backlash I guess.

[Ford Falcon XR6]

More to the point why would anyone go back to ford to buy any other model when last time they wanted to buy a car they got stuffed around (all because they wanted to kill of a once hero model). When people get their fingers burnt they very rarely go back. Currently I think holden is playing the sales game better but only time will tell.


I agree that this is a ford forum and most people here are supporters of the brand but I like to call it how I see it a spade is a spade after all. If your football team is doing poorly you still blame the players or the manager right.... Ford is currently in a major slump and I blame for no one else but ford.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Transmission issues didn't seem to hurt VW. The Golf is still selling close to 2000 a month. Shows how much brand perception changes things.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't hold VW up as "best practice" for Ford to follow. There was a time when Ford also had some very shonky business practices and still were number one or two on the sales charts in Australia. Eventually it caught up with them as the brand got more and more toxic.

I believe VW Australia is on that path and that was before DieselGate.

[russellw]

The 2015 Segment Analysis is now uploaded to the Technical Portal.

Cheers
Russ

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Ford Falcon XR6

More to the point why would anyone go back to ford to buy any other model when last time they wanted to buy a car they got stuffed around (all because they wanted to kill of a once hero model). When people get their fingers burnt they very rarely go back. Currently I think holden is playing the sales game better but only time will tell.


I agree that this is a ford forum and most people here are supporters of the brand but I like to call it how I see it a spade is a spade after all. If your football team is doing poorly you still blame the players or the manager right.... Ford is currently in a major slump and I blame for no one else but ford.

I see it differently. Ask around your workplace and see what the perception of Holden is, I'd say it's very much the Commodore car company and its associated imagery. Ford had/have the exact same issue here in Aus and have bitten the bullet with the Falcon much earlier in a longer term bid to rid it of the Falcon car company and are in a managed transitional (painful) period at the moment which will continue for quite a while.

When the Commodore is gone, Holden sales figures will plunge rapidly (but profits will likely rise) and at some point, will have to rid themselves of that Commodore car co image.

Time will tell which strategy is better, but I suspect Ford will bounce back first. It's a real pity the Ford bashers can't see or accept its a changing world and businesses have to adapt to it or die...

[Ford Falcon XR6]

Originally Posted by Kieron

I see it differently. Ask around your workplace and see what the perception of Holden is, I'd say it's very much the Commodore car company and its associated imagery. Ford had/have the exact same issue here in Aus and have bitten the bullet with the Falcon much earlier in a longer term bid to rid it of the Falcon car company and are in a managed transitional (painful) period at the moment which will continue for quite a while.

When the Commodore is gone, Holden sales figures will plunge rapidly (but profits will likely rise) and at some point, will have to rid themselves of that Commodore car co image.

Time will tell which strategy is better, but I suspect Ford will bounce back first. It's a real pity the Ford bashers can't see or accept its a changing world and businesses have to adapt to it or die...

I get where your coming from interesting to see if they do bounce back of just drift in the lower part of the top 10 for the foreseeable future, the whole story will unravel in time. One thing which you've said doesn't make sense but the commodore name isn't going anywhere it just wont be made here anymore.

Ford bashers or not lets remember there will be 1000's of Aussie men and women loosing their jobs come October. Falcon aside that's enough to produce some anti ford sediment.

It's good to have a sensible debate on here for once without someone getting personal cheers Kieron

[Shonky.]

Yep. They scuttled our industry, in the most cunning, sneaky and underhanded way possible.

Like a pechulant child or a undisciplined employee they deliberately did a bad job of the task at hand (producing and selling cars locally) so they would eventually not have to do it any more.

They ran it down until it was unsalvageable, and then said "look, it's not working, we unfortunately have to close it"

Australia, you got played and we lost our manufacturing industry as a result.

Most didn't know what was happening at the time, but some by the looks of this thread still don't get what happened

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by Kieron

I see it differently. Ask around your workplace and see what the perception of Holden is, I'd say it's very much the Commodore car company and its associated imagery. Ford had/have the exact same issue here in Aus and have bitten the bullet with the Falcon much earlier in a longer term bid to rid it of the Falcon car company and are in a managed transitional (painful) period at the moment which will continue for quite a while.

When the Commodore is gone, Holden sales figures will plunge rapidly (but profits will likely rise) and at some point, will have to rid themselves of that Commodore car co image.

Time will tell which strategy is better, but I suspect Ford will bounce back first. It's a real pity the Ford bashers can't see or accept its a changing world and businesses have to adapt to it or die...

I agree with what you said about both having to transition away from the Falcon and Commodore car companies, but I think Ford are damaging their brand in the way the are handling it.

Ford let Falcon wither on the vine while Ford was/is still the Falcon car company, so those people at work you speak of see Falcon is on the nose therefore (to them) Ford is also on the nose.

Commodore (the 'local' one) looks likely to remain strong to the end, therefore Holden's brand/image will not cop the same self-inflicted damage prior to what will likely be a quicker transition for them.

People say Holden ****ed money away on the final Commodore - I reckon they invested now to maintain brand image and minimise damage, rather than spend more later over a longer period to try to rebuild and undo damage they themselves would have done to their brand if they had followed Ford's approach.

[XR Martin]

Large sedans have been dead since the SUV craze in the mid 2000s, so it wouldnt matter what Ford did to the Falcon it was always on borrowed time. Bit like spending a heap of money on an old house when you know in a decade or so developers will come through and knock it down anyway.

Its just lucky Ford Oz took the gamble on the Territory which basically kept Ford Oz alive for as long as it did.

[Iggle Piggle]

In this case though the developer owned the house they were going to knock down at a later date, and letting it decay might see the suburb get a bad reputation, making it more difficult for them to sell the new houses they build there as people will prefer similar houses for similar prices in suburbs that have a better reputation.