Do we matter to Ford?

[DJL351]

Hang on...... we have two different topics going here.

Ford - the brand and car maker
Dealer - the one that on sells the above mentioned.

If you buy a Sharp VCR from Hardly Normal and something goes wrong, do you take it back to Sharp or Hardly Normal?

Same goes with a car. It is the dealer that should be looking after the customer, not FoMoCo. Their job is simply to build the product.

The only voices Ford should be listening to are the ones coming from their dealers. (full stop)


As for fleet/Big Business sales v's Jog Bloggs.

Most fleet deals also factor in servicing too. For a dealer (and therefore Ford) they have a locked in income.

Joe Bloggs, buys one car, bones the dealer on the price, then fecks off only to be seen again when something brakes.
You want loalty from the brand..... it flows both ways!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Joe Bloggs, buys one car, bones the dealer on the price, then fecks off only to be seen again when something brakes.
You want loalty from the brand..... it flows both ways!

Unfortunatly you would get loyalty if the dealer treated you with respect and didn't fob issues you have with the car off and use excuses just to get you out of their hair.

I changed dealers due to the incompentance of a dealer, (strangly they won Ford dealer of the year in 05).

[Scott]

Originally Posted by DJL351

If you buy a Sharp VCR from Hardly Normal and something goes wrong, do you take it back to Sharp or Hardly Normal?

Same goes with a car. It is the dealer that should be looking after the customer, not FoMoCo. Their job is simply to build the product.

No, you don't go back to Harvey Norman (unless it is broken out of the box), you go to Sharp for warranty.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by Taxman

Ford view the owners of their vehicles here in Australia as a money milking machine. One only has to look at the prices they charge for parts and mechanical work. I have an Explorer, all the parts I have required so far are made in the US or alternatively have to be sourced from the US.

No! REALLY!!!! An imported car requires imported parts??? Feck no. Ban FoMoCo now!

Originally Posted by Taxman

Ford Australia is outrageous with the prices they charge. Some of you may well say it is the transport costs or the exchange fluctuations.

Well yes, yes it is.

Originally Posted by Taxman

That being the case if Ford Australia really and truely cares for us poor little Ford owners, please explain how I can get genuine Ford parts from the States air freighted here usually in well under a week for roughly 25% of what the local dealer wants for the exact same genuine ford part.

Hold on to your hat.....

Ford Aust buys the part from Ford US. Ford US, not really caring about Aust charges Ford Aust more for the part than their own US dealers.

Now, add frieght. The part now lands in Melb (Vic). Ford Aust, then wants to cover their costs, plus make a dollar. So they on-sell to the local Aust dealer, who then does the same to you.

And, for the record, it is the same for ALL brands. Try the prices for some of the imported Toymotas.

[DanielXR8]

Well my experience with Ford Customer Service is no we don't.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by GTP006

On the back of the thread about little or no input from Ford to these forums I thought I would start this thread to discuss Private New Car Sales and whether or not you think Ford has an interest in our.

Geoff Polites used to post on fordforums.com when everyone was over there, we used to have someone from the Discovery centre post on here occassionally.

I have however seen Tom Gorman post on the other ford australia forums, so I don't know in-so-far how much FFAU would mean to Ford.

Considering some members are on the verge of being the blind faithful, I don't think Ford could be bothered.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by GTP006

No, private people are the guaranteed sales. Why? Because they are a diversified risk. Put all your eggs in with Telstra and when that one company leaves you will bleed and bleed lots.

Private buyers account for less than 20% of overall Falcon sales, you can't call that a diversification for any sort of hedging of market risks.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Unfortunatly you would get loyalty if the dealer treated you with respect and didn't fob issues you have with the car off and use excuses just to get you out of their hair.

I changed dealers due to the incompentance of a dealer, (strangly they won Ford dealer of the year in 05).

Is that Ford's fault or the dealers?

Again, are we talking Ford the vehicle builder, or the Ford seller/dealer????

I can say I've never had an issue dealing with my dealer. Sure, things have not always been fixed on the spot, it took them four or five shots to fix the front end clunk, but that is life, and it is fixed.

I received a phone call from "Ford" (a call centre) about 2 months after I'd bought the car. Also received a servey form in the mail too.
I noted down some stuff, sent it off, then received another call and was quized/asked about what I had mentioned.
(what I felt the car was missing, what I thought about the product etc)


Now, did Ford take any of it on board? I don't know. As far as I know, I might be the only person they have ever spoken to that didn't like the way the car did X or liked Y.

I still cry myself to sleep at night, thinking of that nasty company..... not listening to a word I said.
I mean, come on, my suggestion of a Jag V12 was a good one!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Considering some members are on the verge of being the blind faithful, I don't think Ford could be bothered.

Thers's plenty of them about and IMO, they are (me included) what underpins the strength of a manufacturer. I personally know two Fleet Managers who have each purchased 500-750 Fords purely based on their own personal preference for the brand. Ford's are not cheap, they have their flaws, they have financial issues so it seems obvious that they would invest in bolstering their foundation. Fleet buyers have their favourites too.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by GTP006

No, you don't go back to Harvey Norman (unless it is broken out of the box), you go to Sharp for warranty.

Which is done by a 3rd company. (the repairer)
Or replaced, by Hardly Normal.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Thers's plenty of them about and IMO, they are (me included) what underpins the strength of a manufacturer. I personally know two Fleet Managers who have each purchased 500-750 Fords purely based on their own personal preference for the brand. Ford's are not cheap, they have their flaws, they have financial issues so it seems obvious that they would invest in bolstering their foundation. Fleet buyers have their favourites too.

And how many track days has Ford run for your two fleet managers? Or golf days? Or concert tickets? I would suspect none.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Private buyers account for less than 20% of overall Falcon sales, you can't call that a diversification for any sort of hedging of market risks.

I don't know the percentage but I thought it was more like 30%. It is a poor business model to have over-relliance on major accounts. Guarantee yourself that Ford would rather sell the same amount of cars to individuals and never have to worry about losing 10,000 sales in one hit to a disgruntled Fleet Manager.

This is where my thoughts were heading - why isn't there more of a focus on building the core and diversifying risk. Without significant changes to Ford's strategy, the company will not exist in 10 years.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Is that Ford's fault or the dealers?

Again, are we talking Ford the vehicle builder, or the Ford seller/dealer????

I can say I've never had an issue dealing with my dealer. Sure, things have not always been fixed on the spot, it took them four or five shots to fix the front end clunk, but that is life, and it is fixed.

I received a phone call from "Ford" (a call centre) about 2 months after I'd bought the car. Also received a servey form in the mail too.
I noted down some stuff, sent it off, then received another call and was quized/asked about what I had mentioned.
(what I felt the car was missing, what I thought about the product etc)


Now, did Ford take any of it on board? I don't know. As far as I know, I might be the only person they have ever spoken to that didn't like the way the car did X or liked Y.

I still cry myself to sleep at night, thinking of that nasty company..... not listening to a word I said.
I mean, come on, my suggestion of a Jag V12 was a good one!

If you read what my comment was about, it was a reply to being faithful to the dealer, I dont see why someone should if they treat you like and idiot and do a half assed job. Its the customers money and they should feel like their getting their moneys worth when you pay rediculous amounts to get an apprentice to change your oil. I wasn't taking a dig at Ford, I've worked there in the manufacturing sector and I know the difficulty the employees face.

Also the call you got 2 months after purchasing the car actually is Ford in Campbellfield, your actually talking to the engineers that deal with the problems the cars have in the field. I know I actually was there one night till 9pm doing the blasted thing.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

And how many track days has Ford run for your two fleet managers? Or golf days? Or concert tickets? I would suspect none.

Quite a few actually. Back to back drives F6 & GT at Eastern Creek were a highlight.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Does McDonalds care about it's customers? Do banks care about their customers?

I'm not sure I understand the concept of being loyal to big business. Especially when your paying them $$$$, and then you continue to give the $$$$. They have no loyalty to us, why should we be any different. After all, they have your money, they aint paying you.

What most successful businesses care about today are "influencers" and many on this forum fall into that category. For example I own a Territory, but two people I know will probably be putting orders in for Mazda CX9's in the next couple of weeks. Why? Because they know me as "a car guy" and when they hear of my experience with Ford and my experience with Mazda (a recent purchase), its not hard to figure out where their money is going. Both are appalled at the way Ford treated my problems with a local dealer and do not want to risk the same treatment or support a company that doesn't support customers.

Now its important to say I am not buying a new car of any brand for a while, but my opinion of a car and a brand has lost money for Ford in this instance. So yes we do matter and a dam sight more then Ford realise, wether we drive a second hand AU Falcon or whatever.

While many of here are the die hard Ford fans, its fair to say that few of us are prepared to lie about our experiences with the brand. Usually comes down to "love the car, don't like the service" and for ordinary punters its game over right there for Ford.

Dan

[Scott]

Dan's got the gist.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by vztrt

If you read what my comment was about, it was a reply to being faithful to the dealer, I dont see why someone should if they treat you like and idiot and do a half assed job. Its the customers money and they should feel like their getting their moneys worth when you pay rediculous amounts to get an apprentice to change your oil. I wasn't taking a dig at Ford, I've worked there in the manufacturing sector and I know the difficulty the employees face.

Also the call you got 2 months after purchasing the car actually is Ford in Campbellfield, your actually talking to the engineers that deal with the problems the cars have in the field. I know I actually was there one night till 9pm doing the blasted thing.

Sorry if my reply came across wrong, while the first part (about the dealers) was a direct reply/question. The rest was just a general rant.

The first call was one of their call centres, the woman said so. The second call was from Ford. The two guys I spoke to were great, friendly and seemed to know/care about the brand.
(like it wasn't 'just a job')

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I don't know the percentage but I thought it was more like 30%.

Actually it's worse than the 20% that I said, it's more like 12%.

Have a look at the following article:

Myth busted: Australia’s favourite car

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=19729

Originally Posted by drive.com.au

The figures reveal that 88 per cent of Falcon buyers are fleet customers, compared with 81 per cent for Commodore. The Toyota Corolla, which is overall the country's second biggest seller, sells mainly (60 per cent) to private buyers.........

Private sales are vital for car companies because they mean profitability and a healthy brand. Fleet sales, on the other hand, are often a necessary evil, providing volume for local production lines but generating wafer-thin margins and the stigma of common-ness.

Holden has acknowledged this and aims to lift private sales of its new Commodore to 60 per cent of the total - such a result would lift it to third on the hit parade for private buyers but recent trends suggest Holden will have a tough job attracting private buyers to a bigger and heavier Commodore.

Fleets have been gradually turning away from large cars but private buyers have been deserting them in droves - fewer than one in 10 private buyers opted for a large car in the first seven months of this year. In 2002, the figure was closer to one in five and private buyers bought more large cars than light or medium examples.

Car industry executives say a growing number of fleet sales are pseudo-private sales, with more people using a salary package to lease a vehicle for private use. But even these so-called "user-chooser" buyers are going cold on large cars. Large cars made up 53.6 per cent of fleet car sales in 2002, while this year the figure has slipped to 40.6 per cent.

All four local makers have built four-cylinder cars - perhaps it's time to dust off the plans. As the only manufacturer to build a four-cylinder car, the Camry, Toyota has a head start.

[Scott]

^^ Even more reason you would think they would spend time here - marketing themselves.

[sleekism]

Ford are building the right car for retail sales (XR6 Turbo, XR8 etc.) but they are certainly not marketing and selling them right.

I have no doubt that Ford engineers are working very hard to make a product to appeal to private buyers but something seems to be lost in translation from the Broadmeadows factory and a dealer out whoop whoop.

Toyota have proven that you don't have to build a particularly good product you just have to market and sell it properly. All their cars are boring fleetmobiles yet private buyers will flock to them.

What is the best selling private car?? The Mazda 3

How is it that a car with very little history, no motorsport connection, built overseas and with only a fraction of the dealer network of Ford is able to outsell the Falcon by a BIG margin?? What is more alarming that the Mazda 3 ONLY sells to private buyers yet in total sales figures nearly outsells the Falcon.

Lets face it the Ford dealer network is pathetic. You could have FPV GT's for 10 grand and the dealers would find a way to stuff up a sale and make you want to buy a Toyota. Once you have bought a Ford then you have to deal with the morons at Ford service.

Let me give some advice if you see a Holden p-plater in the Ford Service carpark DRIVE AWAY FAST. Ford service departments employ a lot of apprentices and most are either Ricer or Holden fans and don't have any respect for Fords. You can almost guarantee that your car is going to be abused by some 17 year old to$$er wearing his HSV cap backwards.

I remember reading a book on the 100 year history of Ford and during the 60's Ford went all around Australia fixing up, training and in a lot of cases replacing a lot of the dealerships. They need to repeat this.

Considering the range of products that Ford has at the moment I will certainly say the Ford FACTORY is working for private sales but the problem is that the Ford dealers and service guys are pricks. Ford Service proves how tough the Falcon is because I can guarantee that if you have your car regularly serviced it is lucky to have an oil change once a year. Most of the time it will sit in the shop all day only taken out a few times by an apprentice to do a few burnouts.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

What most successful businesses care about today are "influencers" and many on this forum fall into that category. For example I own a Territory, but two people I know will probably be putting orders in for Mazda CX9's in the next couple of weeks. Why? Because they know me as "a car guy" and when they hear of my experience with Ford and my experience with Mazda (a recent purchase), its not hard to figure out where their money is going. Both are appalled at the way Ford treated my problems with a local dealer and do not want to risk the same treatment or support a company that doesn't support customers.

Yet my olds have a TTG and have not had a major issue yet.
They don't like the service manager, but then again, I don't either. (I've worked with him before)
But the product and service have been fine.

The previous Service Manager, as it works out, now is Service manager at a northern Mazda dealer.
I have had the chance to speak to him about the difference in product.
He said, they are on par. But the volume of Falcon v's Mazda 6 (the eg we used) is huge. Therefore, the number of issues seemed far less for Mazda.

He also said that the Mazda customers were happier and more understanding, even when hearing the same 'so called' BS line from the service department, say, something along the lines of, we checked/tightened it, bring it back when it comes back.
Say that to a owner on here and they'll get their backs up!

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Now its important to say I am not buying a new car of any brand for a while, but my opinion of a car and a brand has lost money for Ford in this instance. So yes we do matter and a dam sight more then Ford realise, wether we drive a second hand AU Falcon or whatever.

While many of here are the die hard Ford fans, its fair to say that few of us are prepared to lie about our experiences with the brand. Usually comes down to "love the car, don't like the service" and for ordinary punters its game over right there for Ford.

Dan

So your saying the Brand is okay but the dealer is not?

I'll stress again, to everyone.... are we talking Ford or Dealers?
Please, for god sake, see that while they carry the "Ford" name and branding, they are not the same thing.

There are some shocking dealers out there, in all brands.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Lets face it the Ford dealer network is pathetic. You could have FPV GT's for 10 grand and the dealers would find a way to stuff up a sale and make you want to buy a Toyota. Once you have bought a Ford then you have to deal with the morons at Ford service.

You are right...... the dealer. Not Ford, but the dealer.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Let me give some advice if you see a Holden p-plater in the Ford Service carpark DRIVE AWAY FAST. Ford service departments employ a lot of apprentices and most are either Ricer or Holden fans and don't have any respect for Fords. You can almost guarantee that your car is going to be abused by some 17 year old to$$er wearing his HSV cap backwards.

What does that have to do with anything?

A very good friend of mine, his son is a 1st year at a Toymota dealer. He is a Ford boy, even has an EA we're fixing up for him.....
He works at Toyota because, A) they offered him the job, B) it worked out better. (closer to home, transport etc)

He has respect for people's property, regradless who or what it is.

What you are talking about is the lack of respect of most kids these days.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Most of the time it will sit in the shop all day only taken out a few times by an apprentice to do a few burnouts.

That is just a stupid comment.

[Agent86]

I doubt ford are overly concerned about us small volume purchasers.

My mrs bought a new focus when they released the new body style.

coundlnt deliver on time as promised, wouldnt refund deposit (other dealers had stock ). Ford were not interested, their dealers didnt care cause they had the money.

car was delivered with scratches and crap ( took it cause we needed the car ). Written promises to fix were never honored.

Car has been a fair amount of trouble. Fords and their dealers attitudes? go tell somone who cares.

Based on this experience, i doubt i will be buying another new car from ford EVER.

The focus is getting sold, I am also selling off my BA XR6T, I want nothing do do with any recent or new ford, and the mrs, who isnt a car person, doesnt either.
Sadly, we should have kept her VL.

I'll stick to my old gear. No thanks to the current FoMoCo.

Pitty, as i was looking at the new force series. but not anymore.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

coundlnt deliver on time as promised,

Who promised? Ford or the dealer?

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

wouldnt refund deposit (other dealers had stock ).

Who wouldn't refund? Ford or the Dealer??

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

Ford were not interested,

Maybe because they build them, not sell them?

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

their dealers didnt care cause they had the money.

Possible and likely.

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

car was delivered with scratches and crap ( took it cause we needed the car ). Written promises to fix were never honored.

Again, the Dealer or Ford made the promise to you?

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

Car has been a fair amount of trouble. Fords and their dealers attitudes? go tell somone who cares.

Ford, again, only build the cars. The dealer is meant to deal with the customer.

Originally Posted by AceofSpades

Based on this experience, i doubt i will be buying another new car from ford EVER.

The focus is getting sold, I am also selling off my BA XR6T, I want nothing do do with any recent or new ford, and the mrs, who isnt a car person, doesnt either.
Sadly, we should have kept her VL.

I'll stick to my old gear. No thanks to the current FoMoCo.

Pitty, as i was looking at the new force series. but not anymore.

Oh well. Best of luck with the other manufacturers. When you find that perfect car, let the rest of us know!

[Dave_au]

edit: Not worth mentioning....

[Scott]

The intent of this thread is getting a little lost. The query was to determine whether or not WE matter to Ford and why Ford don't appear to take an active role in this buying group when, at guesstimates, we account for approaching 1000 new cars a year, at retail price, with high GM options and merchandise, plenty of servicing and are key influencers in the sales of thousands more vehicles every year.

The intent is not to discuss dealer issues or indeed product issues - just how we, 40,000 AFF members, fit into the Ford Australia business if at all.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DJL351

Sorry if my reply came across wrong, while the first part (about the dealers) was a direct reply/question. The rest was just a general rant.

The first call was one of their call centres, the woman said so. The second call was from Ford. The two guys I spoke to were great, friendly and seemed to know/care about the brand.
(like it wasn't 'just a job')

All good, just trying to highlight that FoA and the dealer network aren't the same. I'll defend Ford because I've seen how hard the guys work there but I have no respect for the dealers as they seem to not wanna respect the people that keep them in work. Mind you this isn't the case for all dealers.

Ahh ok, I know the ones done at Broady are there to try and get more info on problems that are out there in the field, they try to get as much info as possible as the engineers aren't allowed to just rock up to the dealerships as they get all narky. So when a problem gets to a point where they would like to see it in action they cant go (we had this problem with the door lock actuator issue), for them to actually go to a dealer they need to do alot of organising and its like a day trip. I know we got worried that some of the claims that were coming out from the dealers were complete BS but they just wanted to increase their profit. Mind you Etherage Ford were considered a good dealer as they worked on solving to problem, even taught the engineers a thing or too.

[SVR73]

Toyota have gone with the don't offend anybody, just make them damn reliable
I own a 94 hilux with the fibreglass challenge canopy as a daily driver and love it because you just can't kill it and it's so reliable and I like the shape of that model

As for ford, I dunno and it wouldn't bother me if they didn't care about us. The AU is and will be my last falcon. It's not going to be sold for a B series or orion.
I'm not a loyal ford person, I adore chevy's, pontiacs, buick, mercedes, MG, mini and many others and would buy any one of those if I had the money.

[S3SR]

i think we are to general with the term "Ford" we say it like every single dealer is the exact same like they are all robotic copies of each other.

fact is i know of 2 ford dealers, that will call up and ask how your brand new ford is going after 3 months of owning it, and ask to bring it in for a FREE inspection.
after the car i serviced they even send out a letter in the mail to call or drop in if any problems persist or develop after the service.
1 i know of is the only place where i can order anything i want without a deposit and will even post it to me, and they even remember my name when i come in

if the question was spose to be "Do we matter to FoMoCo?" then bloody oath we do, customers make the business, i honestly believe times are tough and they have to really concentrate on the orion release that it seems we may be getting neglected on new models or updated release say BFMKIII or why the fairlane is discontinued.

but if the question was do we matter to ford dealers? if they answer is no then you shouldnt be going to the Ford dealer. simple
if its yes than why do we all keep complaining about ford dealers, salesman, the cars, service, etc?

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by GTP006

The intent of this thread is getting a little lost. The query was to determine whether or not WE matter to Ford and why Ford don't appear to take an active role in this buying group when, at guesstimates, we account for approaching 1000 new cars a year, at retail price, with high GM options and merchandise, plenty of servicing and are key influencers in the sales of thousands more vehicles every year.

The intent is not to discuss dealer issues or indeed product issues - just how we, 40,000 AFF members, fit into the Ford Australia business if at all.

This is what I am trying to point out.


Do we matter........ Yes.
Not many fleet buyers buy XR's or GT's etc. If they didn't care about the public buyer, these cars would just vanish.

Could Ford benifit from more involvement from sites like this one.... I'm not sure.
We can hardly agree with each other, let alone give a proper consensus to a question they may ask.

And, with the endless 'bashing' some people on here give the brand, why would an employee stick their hand up and admit they work for FoMoCo. The abusive PMs would be endless. (I know I've had a few)