Fog lamps illegal without fog

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Rodp

No, it's not.

Since when did bikes come fitted with fog lights?

Still lights and draw much less current than normal lights..
In any case if you look at twin lights on bikes you'll notice the low beam has
different lense to spread the light beam. Much the same as proper fog lights..

I know its the law not to use them.. But my car passed ADR etc with them and are still as fitted by factory.
I also find having them on at night helps alittle with vision when close to curb, the normal low beams are further forward..

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I also find having them on at night helps alittle with vision when close to curb, the normal low beams are further forward..

Why are you looking that close at the kerb while you're driving?

Is it worth them being on and seeing that close to the kerb while potentially blinding drivers that are heading towards you?

[xtremerus]

On country roads, I find that the 'fog' lights are good at filling in the dark spots to the sides and just in front of the ute when on high beam.
Anyone who has them and used them in this situation will know what I mean.
I turn them off for on coming traffic. But I would prefer them to be used as a 'driving' light and just wired to the high beam switch. Just haven't got around to doing it.

[DDXR6T]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

I just drive with my headlights on, no foglights since every dickkwad and his puppy cries about them, the headlights are brigher and dazzle your eyes more because of the way they are positioned, but I dont care since its apparently illegal..

If any of you whingers actually had a BA / BF fitted with foglights a quick look in the hand book (they are only 55 wats same as headlights) and a quick look at how they are positioned up against a wall shows how they compared to headlights.

Oh and why drive with lights on during the day? Because its proven to make you more safer on the roads, which COULD save your life... This is why big fleets are all fitted with daytime running lights, eg. Telstra.

I agree with all you're points. I drive most of the time with headlights and foglights blazing, The fog's are quite clearly positioned down to the road and are great for the dark spot between the car and the headlight beam.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

On country roads, I find that the 'fog' lights are good at filling in the dark spots to the sides and just in front of the ute when on high beam.
Anyone who has them and used them in this situation will know what I mean.
I turn them off for on coming traffic. But I would prefer them to be used as a 'driving' light and just wired to the high beam switch. Just haven't got around to doing it.

THEN I'd be replacing the front fog lamps with dedicated driving lamps, then you will see a BIG improvement, typically exceeding 220metres. Or adding a set to say a light support bar that surrounds the number plate!

On a country drive, by the time your front fog lamps pick-up something approaching your car, it'll most often be too late. Again, and this has been discussed in this thread earlier and in similar threads, compliant front fogs have a forward reach of typically 10-35 metres out to 50 metres max.

Yes, the hand-fan shaped beam pattern picks up the side-edges of the road better- "close-in". But having too much foreground illumination reduces your ability to see 'as well'- long distance objects picked up by your headlights high-beams.

At 100km/h your at 28 metres per second, add-in recognition (of a problem) and then reaction, and play into that equation front fog lamp performance. You will realise they are for low-speed conditions only and are simply designed in standards for such.

Want DRL's? Advocate them, or run with your low-beam headlights.

Regardless, again - the new law stands - nationally.

[Brent]

Never mind the front foggies...........its the fetish that some have with having the rear ones that drive me nuts!!! Seriously, anyone that drives at night with their red rear fog light burning at 300,000watts should be dragged from their car and flogged with rubber hoses, purely for the betterment of society.

It used to be those pesky Hyundai Excels, with the single rear red light burning merrily away, but now other have joined the act. They are very distracting for drivers following, and on a wet night, they can be almost dangerous given how piercing the ligth seems to be.

I honestly don't know what the rear foggie people are trying to prove. Yep, I can see your normal taillights just fine thanks. In fact, following a red foglight for 20 minutes in heavy traffic actually makes me want to run into the back of your car in the vain hope that the impact will crush the lense and end the source of my annoyance.

Please people, unless you're driving down from Mt Buller in a blizzard or sitting in a pea-soup fog with sub 20 metre visibility, leave the goddam things off.

Rant over.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Brent

Never mind the front foggies...........its the fetish that some have with having the rear ones that drive me nuts!!! Seriously, anyone that drives at night with their red rear fog light burning at 300,000watts should be dragged from their car and flogged with rubber hoses, purely for the betterment of society.

It used to be those pesky Hyundai Excels, with the single rear red light burning merrily away, but now other have joined the act. They are very distracting for drivers following, and on a wet night, they can be almost dangerous given how piercing the ligth seems to be.

I honestly don't know what the rear foggie people are trying to prove. Yep, I can see your normal taillights just fine thanks. In fact, following a red foglight for 20 minutes in heavy traffic actually makes me want to run into the back of your car in the vain hope that the impact will crush the lense and end the source of my annoyance.

Please people, unless you're driving down from Mt Buller in a blizzard or sitting in a pea-soup fog with sub 20 metre visibility, leave the goddam things off.

Rant over.

There was an Excel around where I live, in good nick and looked after by its owner. The owner must have left the rear foggy on too. Someone came along with what looks to have been a hammer and nicely smashed in the rear fog light in the bumper. Not a scratch on any other part of the car, but the foggy would light no more. Stayed like that for at least a couple of years and I always got a laugh when I saw it.

Dan

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

There was an Excel around where I live, in good nick and looked after by its owner. The owner must have left the rear foggy on too. Someone came along with what looks to have been a hammer and nicely smashed in the rear fog light in the bumper. Not a scratch on any other part of the car, but the foggy would light no more. Stayed like that for at least a couple of years and I always got a laugh when I saw it.

Dan

The EXCELS had a rear fog switch that was particularly easily knocked. The Accent has the switch centrally located, so the issue is not as widespread now. A large portion of vehicles have rear fogs now, just not the basic bread and butter cars.

A change to the governing UNECE regulation, which will automatically be adopted here, is that each time the car is switched off, the rear fog lamp will need to be deliberately reactivated, each time the car starts.

I'd not own a car without a rear fog, standard taillights are worthless. See earlier posts.

[TheSneakiness]

I realise the rule, but...

Until I get pulled over and fined for it, I will use the "lower headlights". ;)

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I realise the rule, but...

Until I get pulled over and fined for it, I will use the "lower headlights". ;)

See posts 46 and 47.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...1&postcount=46

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...1&postcount=47

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

where did you pick this gem up from? if you don't know what you are talking about don't post. fog lights are legal day/night in any area but in poor weather conditions only

I read stuff and remember it??? NRMA news letter i think when they were first fitted to imports
just like rod holders are illegal unless being used otherwise they are suppose to be turn back wards
spotlights are illegal when fitted on the roof unless they have covers on (so for off road use only)
stickers on rear windows that obsture vision again illegal
any thing hanging from rear vision mirror
most of these came straight from WA cops mouth

[SE Ute]

Do the FG XR's have fog lights fitted?? If they become illegal everywhere except in fog, it really limits the amount of time they'll be able to be used, will Ford persist with fitting them to new cars? Or might they fit driving lights, or delete them all together?? Could they make better use the spots in the front bar with diferent lights??

I've got a thread on the B Series forum asking about turning the foggies into driving lights, is anybody else considering this now their fog lights are almost useless??

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

A change to the governing UNECE regulation, which will automatically be adopted here, is that each time the car is switched off, the rear fog lamp will need to be deliberately reactivated, each time the car starts.

I'd not own a car without a rear fog, standard taillights are worthless. See earlier posts.

Great idea re: having to deliberately re-activate the rear fog lamp. I swear there must be 1,000 people getting around any major city at any point in time who have never worked out what that orange light means on their dashboard....

As for standard tail lights being worthless, yes, in a blizzard or in heavy fog, yes they are. However, this just comes back to the original point. Unless its a blizzard or exceptionally foggy, then they should be left switched off.

[Pinch]

The stupid thing is, the one day it was foggy in Sydney a month or so ago no one used them :

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by Brent

Great idea re: having to deliberately re-activate the rear fog lamp. I swear there must be 1,000 people getting around any major city at any point in time who have never worked out what that orange light means on their dashboard....

My missus' old Hyundai Lantra beeped at you if you left the rear fog light on after engine off (just like headlights, even though the light actually went out but would come back on with engine and headlights back on). Pitty they couldn't stretch the Excel budget of the time to do the same, but still had the problem of 'd'uh I turned off the headlights but it is still beeping- wonder what that is - stupid car'.

My brothers old XC Holden Combo (Barina basically) had a press button that auto reverted to off on engine power down, same with the work Astra. Must be the Euro provision keepleft was talking about.

[SE Ute]

I've never been in fog thick enough to not be able to see the tail lights of the car in front in less distance than it would take to stop. No Aussie built cars have the rear ones standard do they?? I don't think we have fog thick enough in Aust to require them, in europe sure, they have some real pea soupers, but not here. If i was pottering down an Autobahn in a pea souper in a Hyundai Excel with beemers coming up behind me at 250km/h then sure i'd use one, but don't see the point in Australia, with less thick fog and lower speed limits. I don't know why our rules allow them to be left on imported cars really.

[LOCO XP]

I don't want to come across the wrong way, but I have more of a problem with the headlights on many new cars, especially these Euro Xenon headlights, 4wds and AU falcons. I can pick an AU from kilometres away, my girlfriend always tells me to flash them, but I say, "No, its another AU falcon, they can't help it" in order to keep the peace. But the daytime foggie brigade is a bit of a problem. Not sure if its a standards issue, but there seems to be a lot of variance in the brightness of car headlights, especially with these shiny bright clear lenses. Maybe its the old "Why are the ads always louder" argument, but surely somebody agrees?

[XRtowcar]

I have been a bit surprised to see so many cars using the front driving lights on with they're headlights now.
Must be at least one in five cars you pass.
Haven't driven at night for a while, but now the days are getting shorter its becoming more common.
Yes some do dazzle.
Should be more money in it for the government than speeding fines.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by SE Ute

I've never been in fog thick enough to not be able to see the tail lights of the car in front in less distance than it would take to stop. No Aussie built cars have the rear ones standard do they?? I don't think we have fog thick enough in Aust to require them, in europe sure, they have some real pea soupers, but not here. If i was pottering down an Autobahn in a pea souper in a Hyundai Excel with beemers coming up behind me at 250km/h then sure i'd use one, but don't see the point in Australia, with less thick fog and lower speed limits. I don't know why our rules allow them to be left on imported cars really.

You havn't been too far in land then...
FOG lights don't blind you!! Unless modified...

[SSVPom]

Basically, front fog lamps are part of a manufacturers kit-of-parts to dress up mid and high spec models, alongside spoilers/alloys and the like.

People like to use them because it feels good to use your bought and paid for accessories, and make your car look cool.

If you're not a car enthusiast, don't have front foglamps or are indeed a drive-by-the-letter-of-the-law man, then you just wouldn't understand !

And yes, sometimes (in the Liberty) I do switch on my front fogs when it isn't foggy, but only when it's dark and there's no other traffic around, just to give a bit extra spread of light in front of me.

[xtremerus]

Why don't Ford/Holden just make the damn thing a driving light with a higher wattage bulb, and have it connected with the high beam switch and be done with it?

[Kingsley]

I've used the foggies in my BA one night when I first bought it for a grand total of about 10 secs, to see what the fuss was all about. After seeing what they're capable of, I haven't used them since, day or night. That includes the usually foggy mornings in winter we get around here. They're useless. I'm seriously considering having them wired up as driving lights to use in conjunction with high beam.
One question though, would the people who use foggies all the time, use headlights in the same way if foggies weren't fitted to the car?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by SE Ute

I've never been in fog thick enough to not be able to see the tail lights of the car in front in less distance than it would take to stop.

Don't get out much I guess. I've attended 9, 14, 53 and in NSW even had an 83 car pileup in the 1980's that was due to heavy fog conditions. That last crash is what led to the creation of ARR 221(e) - the use of 'hazard-warning lights on moving vehicles under fog or hazardous weather conditions'. This is only meant to apply for vehicles that don't have a rear fog lamp.

It also contravenes the UN Road Traffic Convetions.

The Bargo Hume/F5 crash a few years ago cost AUS in the space of minutes 12 million dollars. A rear fog lamp is mandatory equipment on all NSW Fire Brigade fire fighting vehicles, and are now being adopted to RFS units as well.

No Aussie built cars have the rear ones standard do they??

No, but the EU Barina/Focus etc makes have them, ditto some Jap and all EU cars.

I don't think we have fog thick enough in Aust to require them, in Europe sure, they have some real pea soupers, but not here.

Australia has not the frequency of fogs, but we do get it as bad in density as some EU hot spots, sometimes naked eye down to <10 metre. Our low population ensures little conflict in those rural zones.

Be thankful our frequency near the big cities is lower than say parts of Italy.

If i was pottering down an Autobahn in a pea souper in a Hyundai Excel with beemers coming up behind me at 250km/h then sure i'd use one, but don't see the point in Australia, with less thick fog and lower speed limits.

IF the 'Beemers' are doing those speeds on the autobahn in those conditions; - then the drivers will be arrested and thrown in jail, - held on remand awaiting mention for trial. A maximum speed limit of 50km/h applies to the autobahn in heavy fog conditions. (Heck - in NSW we simply tell you to drop your speed by 10km/h, like DUH!!).

This is Germany, not Australia.

I don't know why our rules allow them to be left on imported cars really.

Because your standard taillights are utterly worthless in moderate fog conditons, in bushfire smoke conditions, in daylight rain on a freeway with even 3mls of surface water, or in torrential rain day or night, or when driving on remote dusty roads.

Like the rest of the world, our crash rates (and delays) jump when we get bad weather spikes. In most poor-visibility related crashes, we tick the box marked 'speed', sometimes the 'fog' box 'might' be ticked. NSW has over a 170K in recorded crashes each year. X portion are rear-ender and X portion again will benefit from a mandatory rear fog adoption.

If I were to adopt your prohibition-concept, I could then argue in the same manner and prohibit any front fog lamp install as well, afterall, surely 'your low-beams would work as well'?!

Remember again, the rear fog lamp IS the worlds primary lighting defence against crash occurence under lousy visibility conditions, it is the *only* 'fog system' that is mandated on vehicles. Front fogs will always be 'optional', everywhere.

KINGY - The point is your front fogs are best used with just the parkers, now since your speed in heavy fog SHOULD be reduced (REM the Germans impose an automatic 50km/h), here, you will find their forward range sufficient, particularly the worse it gets. They are very good in falling snow btw.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Australia has not the frequency of fogs, but we do get it as bad in density as some EU hot spots, sometimes naked eye down to <10 metre.

Mt Ousley can get pretty thick. I remember travelling between Wollongong and Campbelltown in an Escort a good 20 years ago in winter and not being able to see more than a couple of meters infront of me. That was a harrowing experience.

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Don't get out much I guess. I've attended 9, 14, 53 and in NSW even had an 83 car pileup in the 1980's that was due to heavy fog conditions. That last crash is what led to the creation of ARR 221(e) - the use of 'hazard-warning lights on moving vehicles under fog or hazardous weather conditions'. This is only meant to apply for vehicles that don't have a rear fog lamp.

It also contravenes the UN Road Traffic Convetions.

The Bargo Hume/F5 crash a few years ago cost AUS in the space of minutes 12 million dollars. A rear fog lamp is mandatory equipment on all NSW Fire Brigade fire fighting vehicles, and are now being adopted to RFS units as well.



No, but the EU Barina/Focus etc makes have them, ditto some Jap and all EU cars.


Australia has not the frequency of fogs, but we do get it as bad in density as some EU hot spots, sometimes naked eye down to <10 metre. Our low population ensures little conflict in those rural zones.

Be thankful our frequency near the big cities is lower than say parts of Italy.


IF the 'Beemers' are doing those speeds on the autobahn in those conditions; - then the drivers will be arrested and thrown in jail, - held on remand awaiting mention for trial. A maximum speed limit of 50km/h applies to the autobahn in heavy fog conditions. (Heck - in NSW we simply tell you to drop your speed by 10km/h, like DUH!!).

This is Germany, not Australia.

Because your standard taillights are utterly worthless in moderate fog conditons, in bushfire smoke conditions, in daylight rain on a freeway with even 3mls of surface water, or in torrential rain day or night, or when driving on remote dusty roads.

Like the rest of the world, our crash rates (and delays) jump when we get bad weather spikes. In most poor-visibility related crashes, we tick the box marked 'speed', sometimes the 'fog' box 'might' be ticked. NSW has over a 170K in recorded crashes each year. X portion are rear-ender and X portion again will benefit from a mandatory rear fog adoption.

If I were to adopt your prohibition-concept, I could then argue in the same manner and prohibit any front fog lamp install as well, afterall, surely 'your low-beams would work as well'?!

Remember again, the rear fog lamp IS the worlds primary lighting defence against crash occurence under lousy visibility conditions, it is the *only* 'fog system' that is mandated on vehicles. Front fogs will always be 'optional', everywhere.

KINGY - The point is your front fogs are best used with just the parkers, now since your speed in heavy fog SHOULD be reduced (REM the Germans impose an automatic 50km/h), here, you will find their forward range sufficient, particularly the worse it gets. They are very good in falling snow btw.

Thanks for the tip, but having lived in Katoomba in the Blue Mountains for 23 years before moving here, I have had a lot of experience driving in snow and fog, plus how to correctly use lighting. Still, during my limited use of the XR foggies, using the fog lights as recommended with only the parkers on, I still maintain they're basically usless. It facinates me the amount of people who insist on using them in place of headlights at night too.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

KINGY - The point is your front fogs are best used with just the parkers, now since your speed in heavy fog SHOULD be reduced (REM the Germans impose an automatic 50km/h), here, you will find their forward range sufficient, particularly the worse it gets. They are very good in falling snow btw.

Like an old '78 Jag I had. The fog lights had to be actuated by pushing and turning the light switch. This killed the normal lights, high or low beam, and turned on the fogs.

But of course if everyone drove around with their "censored" lights on we'd all have twice as many oncoming lights at night to look at wouldn't we?

[azaxr8]

I got done about 3 months ago for having mine on a midnight cruise to get something to eat after i woke up. It's weird thou, at the same time ive had numerous occasions b4 hand where ive driven past alot of demons with them on and no-one caring. Guess it all depends on the mood and how much there quota is for the night ers.

$150 fine for me:( in WA.

[Mechan1k]

I use my fog lights literally every morning at the moment ... and no low beam (even though it is still pitch black. I have to as the fog is that thick at 5am that low beam reflects back at me.

I also replaced my globes for ION Crystal yellow globes ... which i find help dramatically in reducing glare.

This morning though ... I had about 5m visibility in front of the ute ... thank god for the fog lights though ... at least they lit up the cats eyes and some of the lines.

I'd be stuffed with out them.

Oh ... I live just over an hour from Sydney CBD as well.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Why don't Ford/Holden just make the damn thing a driving light with a higher wattage bulb, and have it connected with the high beam switch and be done with it?

They would be driving lights if they did. It seems some cannot differentiate between fog and driving lights. Including the authorities...

[davez104]

Originally Posted by Creampuff

I don't see the drama. They give better vision in all conditions. As for blinding oncoming traffic..get the 4WD's off the road for good!!

You're a fuukn idiot.

I love coming accross drivers like you when I'm in my Patrol. My 240mm Lightforce spotties are mounted around the same height as a sedan drivers head, and I'm sure they make a pretty good impression for the last 50 or so metres before you go past. :thebirds:

Turn the fuukn things off, you don't need em and you look like an idiot :

Dave.