Hoist hire

[reece1]

deleted................................

[ams77]

I would have thought post 55 would be the end of all this angst over a hoist and quality of mechanics.
Anyway, more importantly is there a mechanic on this forum that has a workshop in the Mill park area that does brakes? My sister's EL wagon steering wheel shudders when she applies the brakes. I assume she needs discs machined at the least or new rotors/pads at worst.
thanks
Sam

[v8boss]

"But when I take my car to a mechanic, I don't know if he drained the oil properly, flushed out all traces of coolant, if he greased the points on my brakes etc. I don't know if he properly checked the under carriage for leaks."

Comments like this led me to beleive that you don't know enough about brakes to do things safely. In a later post you decribed it as greasing the slides, which is correct. But having been asked by a professional rally driver while prepping his car if he should stick some grease in the grease nipples on his calipers, I was leaning towards the fact that you were like him.

And I have no problem with people doing things at home, but I do have a problem with the fact that you guys are working on things like brakes without any formal training or guidance. I dont mind if someone blows up their engine becuase they left the sump plug loose, but if they roll through an intersection into my wife because they fitted the wrong rotors to their e series falcon, I do have an issue with that.

And that's 100% fair enough. I see it as odd that you can't work on electrical stuff at home (where you'll most likely only kill yourself, but you can do anything you want to your car.

I learned all my stuff about cars from doing a crap load of reading millions of workshop manuals, guides on the net and then working with my friend.This friend then went on to start a motor mechanic apprenticeship where they told him he the knowledge and skill of a 3rd year and he was working by himself on customer cars within weeks.

Anyway, that said. You don't need an apprenticeship or formal guidance to work on brakes. If you know the components, what they do and how they work, it's all about diligence.

But good point. Hoist hire might get people who know SFA about cars doing their own work, which can potentially have disastrous consequences.

[The Yeti]

I started reading where I left off and got very board reading the same drivel over and over again.

If some one wants to let a hoist out for $21.50 her half hour good luck to them, if you want to do work on your brakes well perhaps the RTA should issue a DIY brakes plate so I know and can steer well clear of you, as my tafe teacher explained (That’s right REAL mechanics go to a special mechanics school) any ting less than 100% on brake and steering repairs is a fail, if we as mechanics stuff something up and some one dies we go to goal, that’s right we stand a very real risk of becoming Bubbas bride. I’m sure for the average lube job and perhaps even pad change most weekend worriers are fine but I wake up screaming thinking that untrained people are overhauling brake master cylinders, calipers and wheel cylinders and adjusting brakes.

I don’t see what the big issue is with making sure every last drop of oil or trace of coolant is out of the system, but hay if that gets your rocks off a nice golf clap to you, I would be more concerned as to when the last time your brake fluid was changed and flushed and the procedure that took place in doing so, as nine out of ten back yard wanna be's have know idea that break fluid is Hygroscopic and as such should be changed and flushed as per your vehicle's hand book, and that’s more than just emptying and toping up of the reservoir.

I would also be interested to actually view these cars that "run perfectly" as my experience in the trade tells me this is more often than not, not the case. DIY carby tunes generally result in the car running rich and idling too fast.

I have witnessed many DIY maintained vehicles some are done very well, these are usually the people that know there limits and are doing it not so much to save money or because they think we’re all shonks, but because they love cars and they love working on their cars, kind of like taking cleaning there car to the next level. These guys aren’t the guys that want to rent your hoist for a carton of beer. There the guys and girls with well equipped home workshops (Work out the saving after properly setting that up),.

I’m not saying all mechanics are saints far from it, but I’m saying you stand a far better chance of having a more througherly serviced and maintained vehicle by taking it to a licensed motor vehicle repairer than jacking it up in the drive and having a crack and waiting for every last drop to come out of the sump and putting a nice clean film of grease on the oil filter gasket, by all means do your intermediate services this way but I strongly recommend you take actual repairs to the actual mechanics. There’s a reason it takes a 4 year apprenticeship to become one.

[Hunter]

Yeti, that's all nice to hear but the last two people I let near the brakes on my Falcon made serious errors:

1) Guy forgot to put the caliper slides back on. I asked him where they went and he told me it didn't need them. Yes it does genius, Ford put them on there for a reason. Same guy also didn't bother machining the rotor when I asked (it had a serious ridge on it).

2) Another guy forgot to reinstall one of the dust boots on a caliper pin. They're still missing and fortunately I now have a rebuild kit to REPLACE IT with.

Guess what - both of these guys were "qualified" mechanics. Not sure where they got their qualification, I'm thinking it came with their breakfast!

Interestingly you will find that mechanical faults account for very very few accidents - driver error, speeding, drinking and falling asleep are responsible for a lot lot lot more accidents. In fact in most episodes of that Kiwi crash show, none of the vehicles come up with mechanical faults...

[XR Martin]

You make it sound like overhauling master cylinders takes a rocket scientist, hell most mechanics dont/cant even do it themselves, they just get a reco one. Which is rebuilt by a flunky at the back of some brake workshop.
Hell I rebuilt a caliper in my first week as an apprentice.

[GreenMachine]

Gawd, this thread filled with bovine waste matter quickly... The thread topic isn't "I went to a mechanic once and he sucked" OR "I'm a mechanic and I rock"... We're discussing "Hoist Hire", as the post suggests.

[F6 R-Spec]

Hoist hire is a fantastic idea, but unfortunatley for a workshop it is not feasable as the public liability will : : you.

Most people do things them selfs as i do, but i am a Qualified MOTOR MECH.
My best employee was a non Qualified motor mech, also had some nightmare guy's work for me that where in the trade for 7+ years :togo: .

People have to understand that , yes it is cheaper to do your self, but workshop's MUST MAKE A PROFFIT.
But then again some people want to pay of there house in the first couple of years. :

I have done time on cab's, dealerships and let me tell you guy's YOU can not let a cab sit in the work shop for 3-5 hours draining oil, but it doesnt seem to hurt the cab's that have done 1 MILLION klm's with a 15 -20 minute oil Change.
DOES it ?
Taxi cabs are all about down time SAFE & reliable But LIGHTNING quiK.

Yes i have done exotics as well from sti's 22B's to XA RPO's customers cars that only get serviced BY myself.

So diffrent cars have diffrent applcations.

Peace out
Cheers Mick

[The Yeti]

It's not rocket scince doign brake over hauls but a untrained person can casue alot of issues

hunter you say he forgot to put the siles back in? the slides you say? so whats holdign the caliper head in? the wheel? I think your talking the little anti rattel clips that run along the slides, alot of guys toss them, I personaly done I figure that if ford could have saved 2c in production by not fitting them they would have so they always go back in as for a grove in a disc what purpose does machineing a disc to remove a ridge when the chances are it will take the disc under size and as such make the vehice unsafe better to leave the ridge in there if you arnt experianceing any shudderign etc, as for the dust boots again I think there there for a reason and as I said before not all mechanics are great just like not all plumbers, electritians IT engineers or any other ocupation for that matter, my point is if you dont know what your doing you can casue alot of damage to your car, you and other road users.

the coment of mechanical failure equating to very few instances I hardly thing using a TV show a resurch point but hay it proves your point O asided form the one with the home made lowering job I guess your right, but surely even one preventable death is to many

I'm not saying I'm a great mechanic, hell i havent been on the tools for a living ing in over 10 years, I just see spanner getting a bad rap besauce every person who got a bubble pack tool kit for Xmas thinks if they can find the engine they can be a mechanic

yes the topic is hoist hire Ive made my point and Ive comented on other coments I'll never get every one to agree with me I dont plan on it I'm jsut sticken up for guys that actualy no there

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

It's not rocket scince doign brake over hauls but a untrained person can casue alot of issues

If you follow the basic rules and instructions, then you can do it yourself. If you don't follow the procedures of course you can expect things to fall off or fail...

hunter you say he forgot to put the siles back in? the slides you say? so whats holdign the caliper head in? the wheel? I think your talking the little anti rattel clips that run along the slides, alot of guys toss them, I personaly done I figure that if ford could have saved 2c in production by not fitting them they would have so they always go back in

Yes, these are the things. I don't know what you call them - Ford and the local auto store (not a chain) call them caliper slides. Talking about discs on an EF/EL here (no idea what the other models look like). Two little L shaped pieces of metal which sit on the caliper mount points. If you don't put these in or put them in the wrong way (one side of the L is longer than the other) you WILL get a lot of noise and unnecessary movement coming from the caliper. As you said, if Ford could've saved a buck by not using them, they wouldn't have. As a mechanic this guy should not be throwing parts out because he thinks they don't belong- since when did he become an automotive engineer?

as for a grove in a disc what purpose does machineing a disc to remove a ridge when the chances are it will take the disc under size and as such make the vehice unsafe better to leave the ridge in there if you arnt experianceing any shudderign etc, as for the dust boots again I think there there for a reason and as I said before not all mechanics are great just like not all plumbers, electritians IT engineers or any other ocupation for that matter, my point is if you dont know what your doing you can casue alot of damage to your car, you and other road users.

The ridge could've been machined off and the rotor would be well above minimum thickness for the rotor. A lot of brake manufacturers recommend machining the rotor each time the pads are changed... I've had varying opinions about this. The last time I listened to a mechanic who said it didn't need doing I ended up with that ridge which another mechanic didn't fix when asked to. May as well smash my head on a brick wall repeatedly.

the coment of mechanical failure equating to very few instances I hardly thing using a TV show a resurch point but hay it proves your point O asided form the one with the home made lowering job I guess your right, but surely even one preventable death is to many

I'm not using the tv show as a basis - the statistics (in QLD at least) demonstrate that mechanical fault is not often the 'cause' of an accident - generally the other 'fatal 4' are. In fact over half of crashes in QLD in 2007 were from drink driving...

I'm not saying I'm a great mechanic, hell i havent been on the tools for a living ing in over 10 years, I just see spanner getting a bad rap besauce every person who got a bubble pack tool kit for Xmas thinks if they can find the engine they can be a mechanic

Yeah but not everyone thinks that... a lot of people know when to give up, but you're right there ARE spanners out there who think they can do it all. I still remember the bogans I saw in a wrecking yard who had put a VN on its side with a forklift then put plastic milk crates in a big stack to hold it up while they used a gas axe to cut an exhaust off.... whilst smoking. :

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah but not everyone thinks that... a lot of people know when to give up, but you're right there ARE spanners out there who think they can do it all. I still remember the bogans I saw in a wrecking yard who had put a VN on its side with a forklift then put plastic milk crates in a big stack to hold it up while they used a gas axe to cut an exhaust off.... whilst smoking. :

KODAK MOMENT OF THE YEAR

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Hunter

If you follow the basic rules and instructions, then you can do it yourself. If you don't follow the procedures of course you can expect things to fall off or fail...

Yes, these are the things. I don't know what you call them - Ford and the local auto store (not a chain) call them caliper slides. Talking about discs on an EF/EL here (no idea what the other models look like). Two little L shaped pieces of metal which sit on the caliper mount points. If you don't put these in or put them in the wrong way (one side of the L is longer than the other) you WILL get a lot of noise and unnecessary movement coming from the caliper. As you said, if Ford could've saved a buck by not using them, they wouldn't have. As a mechanic this guy should not be throwing parts out because he thinks they don't belong- since when did he become an automotive engineer?

The ridge could've been machined off and the rotor would be well above minimum thickness for the rotor. A lot of brake manufacturers recommend machining the rotor each time the pads are changed... I've had varying opinions about this. The last time I listened to a mechanic who said it didn't need doing I ended up with that ridge which another mechanic didn't fix when asked to. May as well smash my head on a brick wall repeatedly.

I'm not using the tv show as a basis - the statistics (in QLD at least) demonstrate that mechanical fault is not often the 'cause' of an accident - generally the other 'fatal 4' are. In fact over half of crashes in QLD in 2007 were from drink driving...

Yeah but not everyone thinks that... a lot of people know when to give up, but you're right there ARE spanners out there who think they can do it all. I still remember the bogans I saw in a wrecking yard who had put a VN on its side with a forklift then put plastic milk crates in a big stack to hold it up while they used a gas axe to cut an exhaust off.... whilst smoking. :

not going to argue it seems you see my point even if you dont nessaseraly agree and thats what a forum is all about

I once had a car driven in from a DIYer that had know idea he had jsut relined the rear brakes (an old skyline) with the new shoes on he couldnt get the drums on, he messed arround all day then he drives in Monday morning talking to me like an old mate (we used to see him once a year for rego's) any how he proceeds to tell me his problem I say so OK you must have got them on your here in it now? O no he says I couldnt get the buggers on, so Ijsut put tape arround them to hold it to gether and put vice grips on the flexable brake line so I could get you to take a look I ran it up on the hoist and yep 2" masking tape arround the shoes the drums on the passenger side floor.

A the shoes he must have doten cheap some where as they hant been ground and we tall on the ends that and he hadnt wound off the adjusters, makes thing worse the old shoes were there and they were still 50% so he has wasted a sunday and driven a very dangerus vehicle to have a brae jobe done that didnt need doing.

As I said before there are some very mechanicaly minded people out there the projects page on this forum has many examples but when it comes to stoppers and steerign if you dont know what your doing dont do it

[mik]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

I would just so you can show me how your a better machanic than me

aside from the liability issues, I wouldnt want some weekend wanna be stuffing up their car and leaving it stranded in my shop not to mention the mess and all the light fingered mates that tend to follow this type of favor

you can buy hoists for a couple of grand installed why dont you get one and rent it out to your mates for slabs

on the other hand we wont mention the odd light fingered mechanic out there will we but yes you are right, and the hoist is worth far more labour wise than 20 odd buks an hour, just not a viable option imo.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Using a hoist in this way would be good for people who know what they are doing. But I know that when I was fooling around with my cars mechanicals it took hours of trial and error. I taught myself to change my brake pads, the first time the wheels were off for hours, trying to get the order of what needs to be undone and in what order, but now I can do them in 10min per side.

So, I can see a lot of people wanting to give things a go for themselves, going well over time and then causing issues with other people waiting in line.

Also, are these guys turning a profit? Im sure a setup like this would cost a fair amount of money to get going, yet for $21.50 you get 5 litres of "premium" oil, oil filter and 30 min on a hoist. You would think the oil alone would be more than that!?!?

[Tech Trainer]

Weekend hoist access would be a great thing, however as most of the guys in the know have stated the legal and time factors would make it a pain in the butt.

I would like to pose a few questions thou:

1. If someone gets injured (minor - Burn, broken bone, etc) who pays?
2. If no one pays why?
3. If a job goes overtime (Oh? I found I need disc pads and I am going to do them whilst it iss here.) who tells the next guy inline he has to wait?
4. Are you willing to pay for oil removal as per EPA guidelines?
5. Are you willing to work under OH&S guidelines (Eye safety, eaarplugs/muffs, etc)?
6. Would be be willing to pay an up front fee to assist cover the insurance costs of this operation? I really don't think $21.50 would cover it, considering you would have alsorts of people ranging from novices through to qualified techs working on their cars.
7. Would you be willing to sit through safety training before entering the workshop? This will take a minimum of an hour of your time.
8. What would the policy be if you end up with a car that needs more than you can do? Have a tech on hand to get you out of trouble? Tilt tray to closest workshop?

Just some food for thought.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/889258/

Mate, shoot those questions to DIY Auto in the first post. I'm sure they thought of all of the above before opening a hoist hire place.

[broms]

Old post, but there is a hoist hire place opened in Preston, Melbourne -
http://www.umaster.com.au/contact.html

gordonsgarage.com.au in Sydney has been closed

and Adelaide has opened another one: https://www.facebook.com/hireahoist

[Bill M]

Thanks Broms,
There used to be a place in Cheltenham, Do it yourself car hire in McGuire St that would hire out hoist time and rent out special tools, gone now.
Bill

[STINKY NINJA]

I looked into hiring a hoist in perth to fit my exhaust,the prices are bloody unbelievable,much cheaper to pay someone to do the job!
The place was called "mates place".
Decided to lay on my back and do it...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

Decided to lay on my back and do it...

How much for 15 mins?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

How much for 15 mins?

discount??

i could do it in less than three

[PCT302]

If u have the room buy one at around $3200 its a great investment. I purchased the 4 post from tufflift 4 years ago, best thing I ever did. A great thing about it is that it doesnt need to be bolted to the floor as long as you have a reasonably flat concrete driveway etc you are good to go. It also comes with wheels so you can move it around by yourself. I can move mine outside the workshop to pressure wash underneath the car then wheel it back in.

[STINKY NINJA]

I may have walked right into that one...

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by PCT302

If u have the room buy one at around $3200 its a great investment. I purchased the 4 post from tufflift 4 years ago, best thing I ever did. A great thing about it is that it doesnt need to be bolted to the floor as long as you have a reasonably flat concrete driveway etc you are good to go. It also comes with wheels so you can move it around by yourself. I can move mine outside the workshop to pressure wash underneath the car then wheel it back in.

If I had the room it would be great to have a 4 post hoist,they are very affordable now.

[SumoDog68]

As attractive as hoist is to a DIY home mechanic it is professional equipment that is designed and required for trained and professional people. They know how to use it safely and appropriately .
People who believe that extra care and time equates to a better job are delusional. If you think you know better than a professional in the field who works on cars (or anything else) for a living you are dreaming. In saying that I am not a mechanic and do my own servicing but I am not delusional. I do it because (for most part) I enjoy it and it is cost effective for my older cars.
I work in a different field and see examples of DIY enthusiasts who while have passion and time for the task have no training or basic knowledge and are attempting to implement advanced concepts of a trade with bits and pieces they collect of the YouTube and hearsay.
It is always interesting to try and understand how the hell did they manage to stuff it up so badly. They use parts and techiques that even 2nd year apprentice would not use let alone a qualified tradesman.
By all means do your all work if you enjoy it and are confident that you know what you are doing but don't denigrate a profession . Those skills and knowledge take many years to develop and while there are some Cowboys in every profession most take pride in their work.

[Express]

I’d like a hoist at home so I can polish those hard to get at places.

[STINKY NINJA]

Anybody can buy or own a hoist,you don't need any qualifications at all.
I am a qualified mechanic, ive been in many workshops and a lot of the mechanics that charge top dollars for a so called professional job are useless as tits on a bull,their prices are so high because they struggle to grasp an actual concept of mechanical repairs and it takes them longer to complete jobs because of their inexperience,incompetence,when they stuff up they try to charge you for their mistakes...
Some of the backyarders ive seen are so well versed in fixing things they put some tradies to shame...

[broms]

I think the hoist hire services actually complement professional mechanics, not compete with them. DIY-ers are inconvenient audience for professional mechanics, as they ask a lot and want to save money. So better if they work in organized environment, rather than bother mechanics or crawl under car in the backyard.

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

discount??

i could do it in less than three

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-8BaUbMESE