New Falcon engines - which would you buy?

[fourl6]

i voted LiLPG, but if the ecoboost 2.0l comes out at 5k cheaper than the LiLPG that would change the story.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Anybody want to change their vote now EcoLPi details have been released?

I'm sure EB will have its place as EcoLPi will have theirs. Its good to finally see choice in the Falcon again.

[1TUFFUTE]

eco 4 turbo for me thanks..but take nothing away from either options. I think ford has done a master stroke by bringing both to the market. Im sure all they have to do in marketing is make sure TURBO is mentioned and the 4 banger part wont be a problem at all. Its a very good techy engine package.


Imagine the tuners getting a hold of this little bundle of tech...mmmm..interesting

[ebxr8240]

Yep my thoughts are stuffing one in an Escort or Cortina, clutchless gear box, T88, 9" , tubs and going for it on the 1/4...

[Luke Plaizier]

Of interest to me is:

(1) I think Taxi fleets may continue to like their LPG. Sale price will be what changes them from LPG to EB4 if there is a difference - if EB4 comes out cheaper.

(2) The EB4 will be walked into Fleet opportunities with '4 Cyl only' policies. I see the fleet uptake on EB4 being a potential bottom line changer for FGII.

(3) Private sales - will we see any inroads here? It's taken a long time to swing public opinion around to diesels. And given the old-school preconceptions already shown here regarding LPG, it's going to take awhile to convince people that LPi is now problem free too (no backfires, works fine now with rev limiters and ABS/Stability control, more powerful that RON 91). Those who bought LPG Coons before should now return and buy. Those in the COUNTRY won't, given that not all petrol stations have LPG. Public perception will take some 2 to 4 years to change I reckon. But LPG will pretty much be the saviour of the large Spark Ignition engine in Australia for the next Decade or so.


Lukeyson

[2011G6E]

Just wait a second while I don my flame-proof suit and get an extinguished close at hand...

V8's aren't there because they are irrelevant today.

I was getting our G6E serviced, and saw a new FPV ute, proudly saying it had 315kw. Right outside was a turbo Falcon with 310kw. Why would you get a V8 and pay the extra insurance and registration?
Most arguements I have heard are "sound" and "feel". Well I've driven brand new V8's, both Holden and Falcon, and I'd defy anyone to "feel" much with all the sound deadening and smoothness of new engines. Sound is pretty much the same.

"Towing big loads"...? How many people with horse floats or large boats say "Hmm...I think I'll ignore a big four wheel drive with massive towing capacity and go for an expensive and low towing capacity Falcon or Commodore..." ?

V8's are old tech, in any form. I haven't watched Bathurst for years now...the V8 formula it's run under is deathly afraid of letting anyone else into the race, as we can't have the V8's getting thier **** handed to them by smaller capacity cars, can we...?

Four cylinders 30 years ago used to have, usually, around 60kw in most forms...my "sports" 1982 Celica, the flagship sports model of the Toyota range at the time, only puts out 80hp (59kw...). Nowadays, it's a pretty poor four cylinder, even naturally aspirated, that can't put out well over 100kw, and most are a lot more. With a modern 2 liter twin turbo, set up properly and in a car built with it in mind, most families would be perfectly happy. A small market of enthusiasts is keeping the V8 going, and I honestly don't know how big car makers can survive by pouring hundreds of millions into developing V8's for such a small market. one day their accountants will ask themselves the same question...it's been done before by Ford, nothing to say it won't happen again.

Flame away...

[Luke Plaizier]

Tell that to BMW, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, Landrover, Lamourghini etc.

"Hey Murcielago man, get a 4 cyl turbo into you."

Curious that V8 Supercars has grown more and more popular as the years have gone by.

Are you sure it's not you that's become old and irrelevant?


Lukeyson

[2011G6E]

Touche...

Bathurst is fine as a V8-fest, but true motorsport will accept that there are in fact other makes beside just Ford and Holden. Remember (or possibly a lot of people don't) the glory days of a dozen different makes of car of all engine sizes and configurations all facing off together, with no one gauranteed to take the win just because they had the most cubes? now that was thrilling racing instead of an endless procession of "It's a Ford, followed by a Holden, followed by a Ford...and Oh look, it's another Holden...".

Although they are premium brands and not exactly "family cars". I suppose I should have clarified the point when I said "V8's are irrelevant" by saying that in the Australian-made car market, V8's are quickly becoming irrelevant given the quality of "smaller engined" variants. Once again I'll quote the example of a 315kw FPV ute and sitting nearby a 310kw turbo sedan. On figures alone, the vast price gulf just isn't worth it for 5kw...

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Touche...

Bathurst is fine as a V8-fest, but true motorsport will accept that there are in fact other makes beside just Ford and Holden. Remember (or possibly a lot of people don't) the glory days of a dozen different makes of car of all engine sizes and configurations all facing off together, with no one gauranteed to take the win just because they had the most cubes? now that was thrilling racing instead of an endless procession of "It's a Ford, followed by a Holden, followed by a Ford...and Oh look, it's another Holden...".

Although they are premium brands and not exactly "family cars". I suppose I should have clarified the point when I said "V8's are irrelevant" by saying that in the Australian-made car market, V8's are quickly becoming irrelevant given the quality of "smaller engined" variants. Once again I'll quote the example of a 315kw FPV ute and sitting nearby a 310kw turbo sedan. On figures alone, the vast price gulf just isn't worth it for 5kw...

clearly not a V8 man, its ok mate only a few of us are born with the V8 curse. luckily i wouldn't have it any other way

[Dreama]

its a bit hard to really say without testing driving both.

[GTENVY]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Different engine for different times. It can not be compared at all and shows the lack of knowledge on what this engine is. Remember also that most people who drive a car would have no idea what is under the hood and most do not care as long as it gets the kids to school

Couldnt agree more. Why do so many people think Falcon has a V6

Times are definitely a changing.

[GTENVY]

I voted liquid injection LPG, especially as Ford has advised it's going to be available in XR6 form.

[Road_Warrior]

LPi for the win. Wifey is concerned about what impact the carbon tax has on the pump price of diesel and petrol, and an LPi XR6 with curtain airbags and reversing camera would maker her (and me) a very happy camper.

[tweeked]

Went the 4.

I only want a big car with a big boot.

No i dont want the spare taking the space, dont like or trust tyre goo - it only works sometimes.

I am not waiting 2 hrs for the roadside assist, i have had 2 flats in the last two years and was on my way in 15 minutes.

Also - the LPG taxes are up in the air, no good if the Gummint increases the cost.

A lighter more efficient engine with similar performance and no compromises.

I will be interested to see the pricing.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GTENVY

I voted liquid injection LPG, especially as Ford has advised it's going to be available in XR6 form.

Think you'll find its been in XR6 form for a while.

[GTENVY]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Think you'll find its been in XR6 form for a while.

In the crappy vapour type yes = no thankyou. The new one I would think about though, the only thing that does concern me is the lack of service stations in country areas that would carry LPG.

[Resurrection]

12.5 litres/100km

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by GTENVY

In the crappy vapour type yes = no thankyou. The new one I would think about though, the only thing that does concern me is the lack of service stations in country areas that would carry LPG.

These days its only really an issue if you're going to remote areas or places off the beaten track. Most decent sized country and regional town have LPG. At least in the South West and Great Southern anyway.

[naddis01]

I live in western NSW and have NEVER had a problem getting LPG. I don't get what the big deal is there or why people think it is such a big deal?

[Resurrection]

I am pleased to report that production of the EcoLPi FGs started this week.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I live in western NSW and have NEVER had a problem getting LPG. I don't get what the big deal is there or why people think it is such a big deal?

And like many NSW people you think that the second smallest mainland state is the centre of the universe.

This western NSW, where exactly?
On a main highway maybe?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I am pleased to report that production of the EcoLPi FGs started this week.

Hell to the yes

Time to get this LPi show on the road.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Hell to the yes

Time to get this LPi show on the road.

Time for Ford to make hay as the sun will be shining for the next 8 months.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

V8's are old tech, in any form.

A statement without any basis or knowledge behind it, why even bother?!...

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Of interest to me is:

(1) I think Taxi fleets may continue to like their LPG. Sale price will be what changes them from LPG to EB4 if there is a difference - if EB4 comes out cheaper.

You'd be hard pressed to find any motor that has the longevity of the I6. It will be interesting to see how the EB4 goes in a taxi, my guess would be with city driving/fuel economy and long term R&M, the I6 would kill it dollars per km.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by flappist

And like many NSW people you think that the second smallest mainland state is the centre of the universe.

This western NSW, where exactly?
On a main highway maybe?

Yes thats exactly what I was thinking. And like many people who live on the coast you MUST be thinking that the coast is the centre of the universe.

You can read my location above my post count.
So I never drive anywhere else?

Yes on a highway with 1 servo that has 1 LPG pump, 3 petrol (which quite often don't work) and 2 diesel pumps.

[Elks]

Ecoboost.

I can say that with some understanding. We have a Benz C250 - the wifes car. It's a 1.8 litre petrol turbo, 147kw, 320nm from 2000 ish rpm. The C250 weighs in at about 1550kg so about 100kg lighter than a Ecoboost Falcon will be. It goes very well, surprisingly well, 7.5 0 to 100, but it's the low to mid range that makes it good, it has a nice wide easy torque band. Only down side is a bit of lag off idle.

It get 8l/100km on a country run, and 10's around town, and it's a work vehicle (fuel card), so it never driven with economy in mind.

The Falcon ecoboost is 2.2 so should be even better.

Turbocharging, with full electronic control really is displacement on demand.

That said, if they had a V8 button i would have voted for that...

[kpcart]

i wonder how these 2 new engines will sell. i dont know if the general public will buy lpg or 4 cylinder.
i dont think most people read forums like this to get the full details (the specs are great, but most people wont know that). direct injection is selling well for holden, so maybe ford should advertise the 4 cylinder very hard, with terms like "new direct injection turbo falcon, 8l per 100km" but not include the term "4 cylinder" anywhere in the advertising. same with the LPG, they should write "halve your petrol costs with cutting edge Liquid Injection" but don't mention the term "lpg" anywhere. ofcourse, ford wont think of that, and will probably do very limited advertising as usual and the falcon will go bust in 2 years.

[kpcart]

will the turbo 4 be the base model falcon? that will be the best way of getting acceptance. people have already accepted the small holden 3.0v6. most people who buy base model cars dont care much about the engine.

[BrisVegas]

I like the idea of the base model being the ecoboost, with the step up to the 6 cyl if people want it. VW did that with the Passat and the little 1.8T and then 2.0T coped just fine in that largish sedan and wagon. The V6 option was there, but it didn't offer much more performance.

i think the base model Falc should be $29,999 drive away too. G4E/XR4/Zetec or whatever they're gonna call it can be mid-$30's, but they need a price leader for the fleet market. Flogging XR6s for $34k is bad for the brand. Drop the XT altogether.

[You Yangs]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I am surprised to see so many people choose the 4cyl option. None of these voters have stated why they selected the 4cyl engine. I am interested to hear why these people would select the imported 4cyl over the local 6cyl.

I voted for I4T because in my opinion LPG is a fuel for Forklifts and Taxis.
I HATE the smell of gas and will never buy a gas vehicle for that reason, the I4T engine is something I believe will be adequate for Falcon without being a Drag strip hero and will fill a void in a potential large car buyers checklist. FUEL ECONOMY!