Carbon Tax.Its a BIG Con!!!

[Auslandau]

TO some of those above ....... Just some really basic questions that dont seem to be answered so us normal tax payers can understand ....

1. If a tax is put on carbon 'manufacturers' ... and the 'manufacturers' pass on that extra cost to the 'consumer' ..... and the 'consumer' is reimbursed 'something' by the g'ment ..... who is the one that is going to change their 'carbon' habit enough to make a difference?

2. Of the extra money made by the new tax ...... how much just goes straight into general revenue and wasted?

3. Why are so many people saying 'yes' to a carbon tax blindly without knowing the amount of tax, the extent of rebates and to who those rebates are going to.

4. What effect is this going to be in real terms .... not fluffy images of white clouds, wind towers & solar panels but how is it going to make my world better in real terms .... stopping global warming, climate change isn't an answer as we are not that clever?

5. When the Carbon level is zero and everyone is dead ..... is this when the tax is lifted or is it permanent .... when we are driving cars powered by coconuts or which one comes first?

6. In other words ..... what is the point?

Heres your chance to convince the moronic disbelievers that are stupid and ignorant on the subject including myself

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Tony Abbott would have you believe that the co2 problem could be stopped if we planted more trees, (anything he comes up with will incorporate business as usual for the big polluters). Sure a difference can be made by replanting cleared areas,however, deforestation isnt the major reason we have a problem with co2, its burning fossil fuels that is the big problem and needs to be tackled.

Even if we restore the earth back to times before when man hadnt felled large areas of trees, the amount of carbon returned will be finite(trees can only survive in areas where they were naturally, cant cover the sahara with them). Trees can only really take back the same amount of co2 that was released when they were burnt(if they have decomposed the carbon is already back in the soil) it cant keep soaking up the extra amount that man has put into the atmosphere as a result of burning fossil fuels for the last 200 years.

Okay then, what about the 100's of millions of tons of Carbon spewing from all the active Volcanoes then?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

TO some of those above ....... Just some really basic questions that dont seem to be answered so us normal tax payers can understand ....

1. If a tax is put on carbon 'manufacturers' ... and the 'manufacturers' pass on that extra cost to the 'consumer' ..... and the 'consumer' is reimbursed 'something' by the g'ment ..... who is the one that is going to change their 'carbon' habit enough to make a difference?

2. Of the extra money made by the new tax ...... how much just goes straight into general revenue and wasted?

3. Why are so many people saying 'yes' to a carbon tax blindly without knowing the amount of tax, the extent of rebates and to who those rebates are going to.

4. What effect is this going to be in real terms .... not fluffy images of white clouds, wind towers & solar panels but how is it going to make my world better in real terms .... stopping global warming, climate change isn't an answer as we are not that clever?

5. When the Carbon level is zero and everyone is dead ..... is this when the tax is lifted or is it permanent .... when we are driving cars powered by coconuts or which one comes first?

6. In other words ..... what is the point?

Heres your chance to convince the moronic disbelievers that are stupid and ignorant on the subject including myself

Bravo !

And I sincerely hope this thread doesn't get locked/closed.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

TO some of those above ....... Just some really basic questions that dont seem to be answered so us normal tax payers can understand ....

1. If a tax is put on carbon 'manufacturers' ... and the 'manufacturers' pass on that extra cost to the 'consumer' ..... and the 'consumer' is reimbursed 'something' by the g'ment ..... who is the one that is going to change their 'carbon' habit enough to make a difference?

2. Of the extra money made by the new tax ...... how much just goes straight into general revenue and wasted?

3. Why are so many people saying 'yes' to a carbon tax blindly without knowing the amount of tax, the extent of rebates and to who those rebates are going to.

4. What effect is this going to be in real terms .... not fluffy images of white clouds, wind towers & solar panels but how is it going to make my world better in real terms .... stopping global warming, climate change isn't an answer as we are not that clever?

5. When the Carbon level is zero and everyone is dead ..... is this when the tax is lifted or is it permanent .... when we are driving cars powered by coconuts or which one comes first?

6. In other words ..... what is the point?

Heres your chance to convince the moronic disbelievers that are stupid and ignorant on the subject including myself

Exactly, another con job by these idiot's for more Taxes.. There are some gullible people on here..

[cheap]

Originally Posted by gs1973

Okay then, what about the 100's of millions of tons of Carbon spewing from all the active Volcanoes then?

Obviously there is "good" CO2 and "bad" CO2 ...

[Road Games]

Well played Dave

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by gs1973

Okay then, what about the 100's of millions of tons of Carbon spewing from all the active Volcanoes then?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/volc...termediate.htm

BTW - Pinutubo was the biggest eruption of the last century. I went there and did disaster relief.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

http://www.skepticalscience.com/volc...termediate.htm

BTW - Pinutubo was the biggest eruption of the last century. I went there and did disaster relief.

Yeah, and I have seen other reports to the contrary.. Thats the thing here people- no one really knows.. Just a bunch of blokes running around with theories I think..

[mcnews]

LOL, no that is scientists discounting the crap that people that just make stuff up and post for people to swallow, hook, line and sinker.
The references to the bodies in that data carries a bit more weight I think.

[mcnews]

By the way, I am still on the fence, but I am sitting on that fence wildly amused at what people quote as fact. Seriously it's like religion, but the non-believers are ever more deadset in their proclamations and pushing their barrow than the believers in this!

Oh and of course Alan Jones being in the cause instantly means it must be total crap :-)

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, no that is scientists discounting the crap that people that just make stuff up and post for people to swallow, hook, line and sinker.
The references to the bodies in that data carries a bit more weight I think.

Probably, but tell me this- how is it posible to measure the output of every active Volcanoe on earth? I wan't to see that one..
Cheers.

[mcnews]

Read the science references in that article. It is all peer reviewed science done by people that spend their waking lives and half their sleep also studying this stuff. Not quackery invented by shock jocks or people behind bodies with multinationals stuffing their back pockets full of cash... They are doing the best they can approaching things with every method at their disposal.

Then you have people being paid to try and push a particular point by big industry just sticking their fingers in their ears going nah nah nah nah . Like I say, it's all just amusement to me. Funniest **** going

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

By the way, I am still on the fence, but I am sitting on that fence wildly amused at what people quote as fact. Seriously it's like religion, but the non-believers are ever more deadset in their proclamations and pushing their barrow than the believers in this!

Oh and of course Alan Jones being in the cause instantly means it must be total crap :-)

True. It's pretty easy to push the negative barrow though.. Who want's this damn Tax? You know as well as I do it will not achieve a thing. Like the kid sticking his finger in the Dyke wall..

[mcnews]

That's fine, argue against the tax. Don't go finding religion and spreading biblical style made up lies to all and sundry. This is where the argument against the tax falls down. Make the argument against the tax, that is the only logical way to fight it. Quoting crap like you did just makes everyone on that side of the equation look like morons.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Read the science references in that article. It is all peer reviewed science done by people that spend their waking lives and half their sleep also studying this stuff. Not quackery invented by shock jocks or people behind bodies with multinationals stuffing their back pockets full of cash... They are doing the best they can approaching things with every method at their disposal.

Then you have people being paid to try and push a particular point by big industry just sticking their fingers in their ears going nah nah nah nah . Like I say, it's all just amusement to me. Funniest **** going

It is pretty funny I will admit. But, if it is 'true' and the biggest polluting economies on earth don't want a bar of it? we are doomed regardless, I'm sure you agree?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by davway

Funny thing about the net - you dont have to re-post everything you get sent.
Cant see this thread lasting long.

Its also been posted on here before.

Originally Posted by sudszy

Tony Abbott would have you believe that the co2 problem could be stopped if we planted more trees, (anything he comes up with will incorporate business as usual for the big polluters).

Well he thought of the carbon tax the government is now trying to implement so it must be BS then.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

That's fine, argue against the tax. Don't go finding religion and spreading biblical style made up lies to all and sundry. This is where the argument against the tax falls down. Make the argument against the tax, that is the only logical way to fight it. Quoting crap like you did just makes everyone on that side of the equation look like morons.

What crap? If I could be stuffed I would find you several articles by highly qualified scientists who dispute the crap.. So they are wrong due to their theory?

[mcnews]

All the more reason people shouldn't peddle made up crap to try at any length to discount what our best and brightest minds are suggesting what we are heading for. But instead enter proper discussion about oh well if we are farked, well we should start preparing for things to get warmer etc. There actually is actually a scientist getting around saying exactly that, it is going to happen, we are not going to change so we are not going to change the outcome, so best we instead just start preparing for coming decades being warmer by changing building codes etc. to reflect that things will get more exciting when it comes to weather. And stop people building on low lying coast etc. etc.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by jrckelley

How can you not be cynical.

the government’s solution to carbon dioxide pollution just happens to involve paying the government a s&%t load of money.

.

SO true, Just another reason for them to make money.




Oh and trust Sudszy to agree with the Government/Media hype

[mcnews]

Casey just won the MotoGP, woohoo! :-)
Burning fossil fuels is so much fun though isn't it, LOL/

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, no that is scientists discounting the crap that people that just make stuff up and post for people to swallow, hook, line and sinker.
The references to the bodies in that data carries a bit more weight I think.

That is an extremely one sided biased site though ..... have you read through it? Volcanos vs man .... I dont know who wins but cannot rely on sites like that to show a balanced discussion.

A bit of reading .... whether you beleive in the bloke or not he has as much 'knowledge' as the rest of them ....... just a snippet below form http://opinion.financialpost.com/201...odels-go-cold/

We are now at an extraordinary juncture. Official climate science, which is funded and directed entirely by government, promotes a theory that is based on a guess about moist air that is now a known falsehood. Governments gleefully accept their advice, because the only ways to curb emissions are to impose taxes and extend government control over all energy use. And to curb emissions on a world scale might even lead to world government — how exciting for the political class!

Even if we stopped emitting all carbon dioxide tomorrow, completely shut up shop and went back to the Stone Age, according to the official government climate models it would be cooler in 2050 by about 0.015 degrees. But their models exaggerate 10-fold — in fact our sacrifices would make the planet in 2050 a mere 0.0015 degrees cooler!

Finally, to those who still believe the planet is in danger from our carbon dioxide emissions: Sorry, but you’ve been had. Yes, carbon dioxide is a cause of global warming, but it’s so minor it’s not worth doing much about.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

All the more reason people shouldn't peddle made up crap to try at any length to discount what our best and brightest minds are suggesting what we are heading for. But instead enter proper discussion about oh well if we are farked, well we should start preparing for things to get warmer etc. There actually is actually a scientist getting around saying exactly that, it is going to happen, we are not going to change so we are not going to change the outcome, so best we instead just start preparing for coming decades being warmer by changing building codes etc. to reflect that things will get more exciting when it comes to weather. And stop people building on low lying coast etc. etc.

Ok, so it is Global warming? we better get this sorted then because alot of Scientists are now claiming it's Climate change? Maybe because the Earth has cooled 0.7 of a degree in the last 50 years? Just sayin'

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Casey just won the MotoGP, woohoo! :-)
Burning fossil fuels is so much fun though isn't it, LOL/

Whoohoo indeed The dirty polluting little bugger

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by csv8

Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you.

Ah that doesn't upset me. I haven't done anything to try reduce CO2. So I didn't waste any time or effort at all

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

That is an extremely one sided biased site though ..... have you read through it? Volcanos vs man .... I dont know who wins but cannot rely on sites like that to show a balanced discussion.

A bit of reading .... whether you beleive in the bloke or not he has as much 'knowledge' as the rest of them ....... just a snippet below form http://opinion.financialpost.com/201...odels-go-cold/

A great alternative article of which there are many.. As I said earlier just alot of people on both sides of the debate with white lab coats and a theory.. Only difference is that the pro 'Climate change' Scientists have the Government behind them.. And who has YOUR Money??

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by gs1973

A great alternative article of which there are many.. As I said earlier just alot of people on both sides of the debate with white lab coats and a theory.. Only difference is that the pro 'Climate change' Scientists have the Government behind them.. And who has YOUR Money??

This is the best post of the entire thread thus far.

[gs1973]

I'm going to bed, it's minus 3 here at the moment.. Someone get some Carbon up there please?
Cheers all.

[BHDOGS]

Im confused i thought the carbon tax was for Australia to help Australia make lower emissions i didnt realise it was the world tax that would make the world produce less seriously tho its time for something to be done either way tony abbots direct action is a big load of ******** thats been proven if a carbon tax makes a difference good if it doesnt its just another tax your getting in the **** like all the other ******** ones but atleast there trying something doesnt anybody remember john howard was gonna bring in an ets aswell now all of suddenly its unfashionable again hell most countrys have an ets or are in plans to bring one in australian isnt really going it alone tons of countrys already have this or something similar and there still functioning.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Im confused i thought the carbon tax was for Australia to help Australia make lower emissions i didnt realise it was the world tax that would make the world produce less seriously tho its time for something to be done either way tony abbots direct action is a big load of ******** thats been proven if a carbon tax makes a difference good if it doesnt its just another tax your getting in the **** like all the other ******** ones but atleast there trying something doesnt anybody remember john howard was gonna bring in an ets aswell now all of suddenly its unfashionable again hell most countrys have an ets or are in plans to bring one in australian isnt really going it alone tons of countrys already have this or something similar and there still functioning.

Your probably partly correct.. But how many of those Countries wth an ETS make their money exporting Coal to the biggest polluters in the world?

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I don't care for Tony Abbott, and I don't care for Julia either, I just like trees, they're pretty is all

CO2... isn't that the stuff they make fizzy drinks with? If so, why doesn't the ocean taste like mineral water already? /stupidity