AU Turbo

[blackers10]

really..
when you push for power (both torque and Kw)
stuff breaks
doesnt matter when or how
if its pushed beyond what its built for then its going to be destroyed

turbo ..n/a..nitrous..supercharged... some guy with a lead foot and a deep pocket for tyres....
all are going to break SOMTHING

hell the BTR transmission dies just by looking at it in stock form

[stiddy]

And I agree stuff breaks, hell ive broken a Z spec gearbox with a shade under 140rwkw and 410nm of torque (Autotech's Dyno).
I dont even want to think about the amount of $$$ gone into tyres over the last years ive had the car, at 350-400 each that I replace every 3 months.. hmm expensive..
Ive had the diff go, ive had a gearbox go, thats about it..

IM saying a force fed car will break things ALOT easier and sooner than what a N/A car will. Torque is what kills a driveline, not the HP or KW your making.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Casper

Actually, I have no argument with what you have said at all. If someone were to try and hit a stock driveline with a 200hp shot of Nitros or cram a massively worked 351 into car that had a stock I6 in it I'd be inclined to say that something is going to break in one hell of a hurry.
The phrase "You cannot make big power and quick ET's with cheap mods without putting the entire driveline at an unacceptable risk factor (it will break at some stage)." is probably an overall more accruate coverall, no argument.

The thing with turbo's is that there is a lot of people doing them and not too many that are upgrading the driveline at the same time. Not to many are doing it with V8's or Nitros at this stage. The only reason I have said turbo is because thats what this thread is about... its not an attack at turbo's at all.


You're kidding right? Look at what mods I've already done.... I could very easily have done a snort turbo kit by now. The reason I havent is I would have the same issue as everyone else.. heaps of potential power and no driveline to put it through.

Will I go turbo route? Who knows... nothing is carved in stone.

Yeah, its ok, I do understand. I guess its different for us up here in QLD, we dont have to worry to much about enginering, and insurance doesnt come into play as its easy to get with the car enginered. At leat you do have (most of) the driveline to put the power through now.

And Stiddy, I believe what you are saying is correct, the torque will kill the auto quick smart.

[blackers10]

the Term 'power'.. means different things to different people too
some think its Kw some people is torque.. so yeah

[Duffman]

Originally Posted by shuresm58

duffman, you've missed my questions twice now ...

here it is again ...

just a quick question.. you say the engine died due to bad blowby .. is that the only reason?

im looking at buying a turbo AU atm, but this thread kind of scares me.. can't you stop the engine pressurizing by installing the catch can in a different way?

what could have been done to stop this happening?

Sorry I missed your question. At first we thought it was the turbo so we removed that and turned out it was due to be replaced anyway. Got it home and it still had the same oil problem. Ill give you a definate answer once the engine is been rebuilt as then ill know exactly what went wrong. The other problem I had was it was blowing manifold gaskets so the manifold will get getting all machined up as well.

To stop what happened to my engine (if it turns out to be blow by) is probably not much. I mean you buy a turbo for one reason to put the foot into it everynow and then and if you dont what was the point. I didn't thrash my car or do burnouts and it still happened. Nothing worse then having a good turbo on an engine you know if you put your foot down it will blow.

Id be weary if you are going to buy a AU with a turbo on it as they are most likley selling it as they are having issues. I could be wrong its just hard to tell they could do a patchy job on a fix only for it to be your problem 6 months later.

Day 3

Quotes have come back and the engine will be going down tommorrow and hope to have it back next week. Its getting a full proper rebuild with the lot so the engine alone should be able to give good power even without the turbo. It will have to be run in for a good 3000-5000km on about 6psi before it gets boosted back up. Ill posts some costs when I get them but the bottom part alone is roughyl $1700

[stiddy]

Thats a cheap bottom end.. The conrods I want for my build are close to that mark!!
whats getting done, parts? brands?

Having your motor at that stage, I would recommend a stud girdle.

[waggaclint]

Originally Posted by stiddy

hell ive broken a Z spec gearbox .$$$ gone into tyres over the last years ive had the car, at 350-400 each that I replace every 3 months

If ya mind me asking whats a Z SPEC gearbox and also what motor was in your car when you broke it was it a turbo one?.....and maybe you should start buying cheaper tyres LOL

[justa6]

keep at it duffman. yeah you will break stuff, and it probably will end up being over 10grand. but gee it's fun doing it

[justa6]

also duffman, i've got a jmm stage 2 turbo cam and springs. it's all i've had in it so i can't compare with anything else but it makes plent of power.

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by waggaclint

If ya mind me asking whats a Z SPEC gearbox and also what motor was in your car when you broke it was it a turbo one?.....and maybe you should start buying cheaper tyres LOL

lol nah it was n/a with a little under 140rwkw/410nm.. (autotech dyno)
I dont want cheap tyres, its great steping off at 4000rpm and launching with no spin what so ever.. and other times.. well thats fun to lol..
Im looking forward to some boost through my thing.. and it will be done properly.. few other things before then though.. arms recovering from rubbing the ol' girl back.

[waggaclint]

Originally Posted by stiddy

lol nah it was n/a with a little under 140rwkw/410nm.. (autotech dyno)

Thats alot 410nm that more than a BA (383nm i think).....as for g-box you were talking about Z-SPEC what is that....

[sly]

Originally Posted by blackers10

the Term 'power'.. means different things to different people too
some think its Kw some people is torque.. so yeah

Torque is a measure of force. Force provides acceleration - simple high school physics.

Power is a measure of work done and is calculated as torque times revs divided by a constant. Same meaning no matter how many people you have.

The difference can be difficult to conceptualise, especially as torque is a rotational force rather than linear. Think of the difference between hitting a nail once with a hammer (applying force) as against driving the nail all the way in (doing work - applying force 1 or more times until the desired result is achieved)

Gearing (torque multiplication) muddies the water too. AutoSpeed had an article some weeks ago on Power v's Torque which showed that:

• torque provides accceleration
• gearing can compensate for lack of torque in an engine that is powerful through being high-revving
• gearing cannot compensate for lack of power in an engine that is torquey but low-revving

[LiL_Macka]

It all depends how you do it casper, you do all the work yourself you should have a good system capable of 230rwkw for around 5000... Depends on what you know you and who you know...

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by waggaclint

Thats alot 410nm that more than a BA (383nm i think).....as for g-box you were talking about Z-SPEC what is that....

Well its been on the dyno twice in 2 years, and reeled off the same numbers almost down to the decimal.
Z-spec is a beefed up T5..

[sly]

Originally Posted by Casper

Basically I do not believe a powerful, reliable and trouble free turbo setup on an AU I6 is going to be possible for under $15K minimum unless you have already modified the drivetrain beforehand. (By powerful I mean minimum 250-280rwkw and low 12 ET's for it to even be close to worth the effort)

Depends how far you want to go. I'd be happy to go no further than CAPA's Powerdyne kit. Assume a stock non-VCT I6 does around 100-110rwkw. The same car with this kit would be good for what? 160-170rwkw? Say a 60% improvement. At $6,000 that's $100 per 1%.

Starting with the same stock I6 you shoot for 250rwkw, spending $15,000 to do it properly as per Casper's list. You get 150% more power. Guess what, still $100 per 1%.

So on BFYB there's nothing in it. You can probably argue that the cost of the CAPA option should include strengthening the tranny. I'd argue that if you don't thrash it all the time the tranny would last pretty well. If you drive under 3000rpm 90% of the time then 90% of the time boost never goes over 4.8PSI. In my case the tranny has 315,000km up and will need replacement eventually. The extra cost of a strengthened box is not much over a reco'd standard spec.

So I reckon you get what you pay for, and on BFYB the CAPA kit doesn't look like such a rip-off after all.

[Eu-GenixX]

i'm now facing the dilemna of supercharger vs turbocharger....the main thing holding me back with supercharger.. is no real room to gain more power... but with turbo.. you can just increase boost.. (for all the Mr. Negatives out there.. assuming the driveline has been strengthened)

but i guess i'm not looking to keep the car for a great length of time.. so the supercharger might be a better option considering prices etc...

[Christiaan]

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

i'm now facing the dilemna of supercharger vs turbocharger....the main thing holding me back with supercharger.. is no real room to gain more power... but with turbo.. you can just increase boost.. (for all the Mr. Negatives out there.. assuming the driveline has been strengthened)

but i guess i'm not looking to keep the car for a great length of time.. so the supercharger might be a better option considering prices etc...

you can change the pulley size on the supercharger to increase boost..

[TURBOTAXI]

Any updates Duffman?

[Duffman]

Is where it is at now. At the moment the engine and manifold are off being machined/put back together hopefully should have some more interesting news soon

[Duffman]

Not much of an update on the rebuild topic (ill post a big post about it later) but I am thinking of putting on some 19" bf tyhpoon wheels and adding a bf typhoon front bar to replace the te50 one. The main thing I am worried about with the bar is that it may not flow with the car and will just look odd. I hate the vs commos you see with vy body kits that just look stupid so hopefully it wont turn out like that. Ill get the front bar painted up so it looks like the one on the typhoon r-spec.

So if anyone is interested in some furys or a t3 front bar let me know.

[Eu-GenixX]

got pics of the front bar?.. or are there some at the beginning of this thread?..heh

actually just checked... and nevermind.. i'm going to leave the stock bars on.

[StealthAu]

Let us know what you want for the front bar

[Christiaan]

duffman, just out of interest, have you found out what caused the engine to pressureize yet?

the AU im looking at has everything.. full wolf 3d, injectors, cooler, fuel pump, etc..

standard engines shouldn't just die like yours did unless there was something wrong with it, right?

please let me know ASAP what happened to yours so i can re-assess the purchase of the turbo..

cheers

[Duffman]

Well I was a bit lazy and didnt keep the thread up to date but here are some pics:



The manifold also got machined as it had a tendency to blow gaskets



All I have to do now is put it all back in and its on the road! The engine has been fully rebuilt with compression lowered etc so it should go good

[AUI99]

How many rwkw are u looking to get ounce u have finished???

[XR Lita]

Awesome......

[Duffman]

Sorry I havent answered any questions lately

Originally Posted by stockoau

Let us know what you want for the front bar

Hoping for about $250 with fog lights included

Originally Posted by shuresm58

duffman, just out of interest, have you found out what caused the engine to pressureize yet?

the AU im looking at has everything.. full wolf 3d, injectors, cooler, fuel pump, etc..

standard engines shouldn't just die like yours did unless there was something wrong with it, right?

please let me know ASAP what happened to yours so i can re-assess the purchase of the turbo..

cheers

Not sure exactly it looks like it wasn't plumbed up properly to the oil lines etc. Its hard to tell if a turbo install is going to work or not there are just so many things that can go wrong. Some people spend 5k it works and they never have a problem while others can spend heaps and have continual problems. Problems or not turbo is the way to go it would be almost impossible get the NA power that a turbo can produce.

Originally Posted by AUI99

How many rwkw are u looking to get ounce u have finished???

220-250rwkw would be nice don't want to go too crazy as ill start putting too much stress on my driveline/auto box. When it was rooted before suckin in oil at 6psi it put out 200rwkw so should go alot better then that.

[AU2PWR]

Time to Beef this Thread back up ..

My AU is in the Stages of Being Turbo'd Within the next Month .. IM going to run a Stock Bottom End , And Buy another Motor and Put the ACL Rebuild Kit in it just incase ..

Now heres something i think though .. A Lot of you guys are horsepower hungry , For some , to say that a jump from 140 to 190 Kilowatts is unoticable , then thats just you ... For my to have 40 more kWs at the Treads would be awsome .. and mine wont be running on the track .. basically going to be For Cruising and Showing ..

It Can be done ,
It Will be done ,
Progress is Progress and at the End of the day , it if Works , then others will follow ..

(Also , Yella-Terra might be helping me with the Install - woot)

[blackers10]

what does the ACL kit have that a normal rebuild kit doesnt??
is it just more heavy duty stock rebuild parts??

good luck!

[private9]

AU bottom ends are pretty tough things man, as long as it's tuned right and you don't abuse it (ie thrash when cold, over rev etc) then it will cope with alot more than you'd think.