Dowling reckons End of road for Falcon and Commodore in 2016 - Page 3

anto · 17-01-2013, 12:18 PM

the segment on channel 7 this morning is a PR clamaity for both manufacturers, they need to sure up confidence quick smart with there own positive PR whatever that may be...

this negative stuff cant go unanswered

Ive had several non car types already tell me today that falcon is being stopped because they saw the segment.. had to explain it was just a media beat up , though it took some convincing.

Road_Warrior · 17-01-2013, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

the segment on channel 7 this morning is a PR clamaity for both manufacturers, they need to sure up confidence quick smart with there own positive PR whatever that may be...

this negative stuff cant go unanswered

Ive had several non car types already tell me today that falcon is being stopped because they saw the segment.. had to explain it was just a media beat up , though it took some convincing.

This.

Ford need to say something, because there's been nothing but silence from them against 2 weeks of hysteria led by Dowling and Carsguide. There's only so much enthusiasts can do, Ford need to take a role as well.

ShootsWithFilm · 17-01-2013, 01:18 PM

In 1978, Holden dropped their big car from the range, as a response to motoring trends, due to the Oil Crisis.

Gone from the Lineup was the Kingswood and the Torana. The Kingswood replacement didn't get off the ground, but the Torana one did - it was called the Commodore.

It was one of the biggest mistakes that Holden did. It was not until the VN, 10 years later, which was beefed up, that Holden righted their mistake.

Is this History repeating itself? Yes and no, except that for Holden to get back in the game (from a local build perspective), they would need to have a locally built SUV in the range, not to beef up the Commodore replacement.

As for Ford - they seem to have a reasonably successful car in the Territory (should we be summing up Falcon and Territory builds to get Ford Aust's real picture?) - maybe the Falcon replacement needs to be a smaller Territory clone in 4, 6 and Diesel variants? Thats what the kids seem to want nower days..

My biggest issue with Ford is their dysfunctional marketing - its been a long time since I have seen any TV advertising of the Falcon (they did do Radio last year), with the Terri not that far behind - actually, the only cars they appear to market actively is the Fiesta.

While the Falcon is not the car of choice by many (lets be realistic here), I am sure that many could and would buy one if they actually new they exist!

tezxr8man · 17-01-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

If he wasn't right, all Ford would have to release is "we will be producing out of Broady after 2016 - exactly what we will confirm at a later date"

But they keep running the "we have not decided" line. WHich make me think they have, and he is right. Sad.

am pretty sure they confirmed they were alligning the Mustang and Falcon and others under a global platform and they were keeping the plant goin about halfway through last year???
Can't be too sure when s*!t like this pops up pops up every 5 mins tho maybe old mate should take the "if you haven't got anything good to say, SHUTUP" route and stop being Unastralian with stupid coments that are all over the news now!!
Comments like that are making the situation worse for our homegrown stuff Mitsubishi is a perfect example

Sprint · 17-01-2013, 02:44 PM

the falcon should be 25k, profit by volume like asia.

what about v8 supercars? will we now have daiwoosupercars?

Mighty Reds · 17-01-2013, 03:02 PM

So the commodore could become an imported model from the US (if they start production there) after 2016, rebadged Chev SS.

Smoke Pursuit · 17-01-2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

the falcon should be 25k, profit by volume like asia.

what about v8 supercars? will we now have daiwoosupercars?

Alot of people miss the fact that a lot of manufacturing overheads are fixed... So increased sales volumes do actually increase profits, even if the margins are tighter on the cars the more they build the wider spread of fixed overhead and R & D they pay back, meaning more profit overall.

They need an XT Ecoboost 4 cylinder at around the $27,990 mark to allign it with Camry... Thats for a brand new one, not some ex demo thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months.

It just blows me away at how they can sell XR6's for $30,990 and XT's are more money, but with less content? Just shows that extras don't cost much more, they just make you feel warm inside. I was thinking about buying an XT for work (I am sick of low profile tyres), but I would be worse off financially buying a new XT then I would be buying a new XR6... I know which one I am going to get more money back on at trade in time so it makes it really hard to convince myself to buy the XT, even though its all I want / need.

jpd80 · 17-01-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

the falcon should be 25k, profit by volume like asia.

You could make then $22,990 drive away and they still wouldn't sell, the colours would be wrong, the headlights not right, the dip stick too far left.....

flooded one · 17-01-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

In 1978, Holden dropped their big car from the range, as a response to motoring trends, due to the Oil Crisis.

Gone from the Lineup was the Kingswood and the Torana. The Kingswood replacement didn't get off the ground, but the Torana one did - it was called the Commodore.

It was one of the biggest mistakes that Holden did. It was not until the VN, 10 years later, which was beefed up, that Holden righted their mistake.

Is this History repeating itself? Yes and no, except that for Holden to get back in the game (from a local build perspective), they would need to have a locally built SUV in the range, not to beef up the Commodore replacement.

As for Ford - they seem to have a reasonably successful car in the Territory (should we be summing up Falcon and Territory builds to get Ford Aust's real picture?) - maybe the Falcon replacement needs to be a smaller Territory clone in 4, 6 and Diesel variants? Thats what the kids seem to want nower days..

My biggest issue with Ford is their dysfunctional marketing - its been a long time since I have seen any TV advertising of the Falcon (they did do Radio last year), with the Terri not that far behind - actually, the only cars they appear to market actively is the Fiesta.

While the Falcon is not the car of choice by many (lets be realistic here), I am sure that many could and would buy one if they actually new they exist!

I think you'll find the kingswood was replaced by the commodore. torana did actualy have plans too continue on but was dropped because it was considered out of style compared too other competitors. where as kingswood was seen as too big and with the oil crises. it was suggested that people would go for smaller cars. hence the commodore was born. toranas replacement came 2 years later. it was called the camira

**buggerlugs** · 17-01-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Reds

So the commodore could become an imported model from the US (if they start production there) after 2016, rebadged Chev SS.

Then what would the Australian owners do ? Pull off the chev badges and stick on the Lion badge

dom_105 · 17-01-2013, 08:11 PM

I stay well clear of this type of journalism, but something frustrated me today.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226555325429

Quote:

Rumours that the death of those one-time Strayan icons Ford's Falcon and Holden's Commodore have not in fact been exaggerated were confirmed at the Detroit motor show. Once the champions in the two-horse race that was the local new car stakes, both nameplates will be sent to the knackery in 2016 (or at best be assigned to imported American models).

In the case of the Falcon particularly, the announcement is in the manner of a mercy killing.

There is opinion, and there is bare-faced lies. There was no such announcement about anything, just a bunch of highly paid journalists reading tea leaves.

Opinion is not fact.

2011G6E · 17-01-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildrider

I think you'll find the kingswood was replaced by the commodore. torana did actualy have plans too continue on but was dropped because it was considered out of style compared too other competitors. where as kingswood was seen as too big and with the oil crises. it was suggested that people would go for smaller cars. hence the commodore was born. toranas replacement came 2 years later. it was called the camira

Exactly right...the Commodore shared showroom space with the much older looking Kingswood, and what a difference it was...the VB had as much interior room, was lighter, faster (using the same engine at that time), more modern, actually handled, and was known as a "drivers car" when the Falcon at the time was known as just "a good solid old family car".
Falcon down-sized a bit with the XD as Holden did with the VB Commodore.

Times change, but some things stay the same...economies mean the public will look for smaller cars, or at least cheaper to run ones, and there will be great wailing and nashing of teeth as there was when the Kingswood died and the XC became the much more petite XD...

It's happened before, it will happen again.

rdmr · 17-01-2013, 08:26 PM

Let JD and PP come to the Ford Plants and repeat their words to us in person. We'll see who's smiling after that.

And mods, please don't delete, I could of said let's see who needs 'last rites' after but I didn't.

So I'm being nice.

**Polyal** · 18-01-2013, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

You could make then $22,990 drive away and they still wouldn't sell, the colours would be wrong, the headlights not right, the dip stick too far left.....

Not true (IMO).

If priced more competitively (yes that means out of its segment) then it would have a much better chance. The Camry, Mazda 3 etc are all selling well because these days they offer almost the same practicality, and while they are not as robust as the Falcon they do what people these days want..numbers speak for themselves.

$23k is a bit cheap perhaps, but what is the Falcon offering the normal person buying the medium size cars? Because if we cant answer that how can the non-enthusiast buyer?

Perhaps people see cars are more replaceable these days? Turn over rates higher thus purchase price comes down, care factor comes down etc.

BDA074 · 18-01-2013, 06:24 PM

Need to question Josh's depth of research when the picture in the Telegraph was of a BA Falcon. Couldnt find an FG? At least they updated it for the web.

FalconXV · 18-01-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootsWithFilm

In 1978, Holden dropped their big car from the range, as a response to motoring trends, due to the Oil Crisis.

As for Ford - they seem to have a reasonably successful car in the Territory (should we be summing up Falcon and Territory builds to get Ford Aust's real picture?) - maybe the Falcon replacement needs to be a smaller Territory clone in 4, 6 and Diesel variants? Thats what the kids seem to want nower days..

Like the next Edge maybe... . Depends whether Dearborn wants to keep Broadmeadows open, but I don't see why they would announce it before next Falcon's run, thats just lunacy. Dowling et al are just having a slow news day in the holidays and know how to generate ratings/ get chins wagging.

Maybe the next Falcon could be a Lwb Mondeo (like the one in China), with a north-south engine, more power, AWD? If it was a luxury alternative to Mondeo, it could command higher profit margins. Which would be akin to Camry, where R&D is spent overseas,fine-tuning here. Would this make 1000 units/ month viable?

JG34JA · 18-01-2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Exactly right...the Commodore shared showroom space with the much older looking Kingswood, and what a difference it was...the VB had as much interior room, was lighter, faster (using the same engine at that time), more modern, actually handled, and was known as a "drivers car" when the Falcon at the time was known as just "a good solid old family car".
Falcon down-sized a bit with the XD as Holden did with the VB Commodore.

Times change, but some things stay the same...economies mean the public will look for smaller cars, or at least cheaper to run ones, and there will be great wailing and nashing of teeth as there was when the Kingswood died and the XC became the much more petite XD...

It's happened before, it will happen again.

Totally correct, it goes in cycles. Let's follow this timeline on a bit - the early 80's saw oil prices fall to $20 as the Saudi's pumped and the only fullsize car left, Falcon, dominated the landscape when it had been derided as 'last of the Dinosaurs' on release. The Commodore decision was to nearly send GMH bankrupt. All the midsize 4cyl rivals were up-engined to V6 in their next body incarnations, which got bigger...

Today, we have US as net energy exporter, shale oil, tar sands, natural gas, the nasty "fracking" coming into play... just saying.

BDA074 · 18-01-2013, 07:10 PM

AWD Falcon. I like the sound of that!

Drove the Edge in the US too when on hols. Great SUV. Lots more features tha Territory.

ivorya · 18-01-2013, 07:47 PM

Lets change the attack.................

Why not change the article to "Dowling won't have a job past 2016" ..........;)

Is just as much imformative.

**DFB FGXR6** · 18-01-2013, 08:01 PM

Did anyone see Todays Caradvice? JD wrote a article on the history of the aussie car war (holden/ford) from the last 50 odd years. Quite a generic article with a bit of poor reaserch. Funny thing is though, a side bar story included his "Five of the Best", his pick of the best aussie made cars. They included 3 fords (XR GT, XY GT-HO and BA onwards XR6 Turbo) and two holdens (VK Group A and HSV W427). After a few weeks of hardcore ford bashing, is he trying to make amens?

Archilino · 18-01-2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Did anyone see Todays Caradvice? JD wrote a article on the history of the aussie car war (holden/ford) from the last 50 odd years. Quite a generic article with a bit of poor reaserch. Funny thing is though, a side bar story included his "Five of the Best", his pick of the best aussie made cars. They included 3 fords (XR GT, XY GT-HO and BA onwards XR6 Turbo) and two holdens (VK Group A and HSV W427). After a few weeks of hardcore ford bashing, is he trying to make amens?

That read more like an obituary to me.

Bossxr8 · 18-01-2013, 09:52 PM

Where the hell does he get off saying their deaths are confirmed. No exec said anything, and because they didn't say anything that somehow confirms it. What a freakin clown.

Apparently Allan Mullally won't allocate interview time for aussie motoring journos anymore at motorshows. I wonder why.

Maybe this is Josh Douchelings way of striking back.

MethodX · 18-01-2013, 10:12 PM

In a way it will be a bit of Karma if Falcon stops production.
The way some of you bag out GM and commodore, a company and car nearly the same.

Resurrection · 18-01-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Where the hell does he get off saying their deaths are confirmed. No exec said anything, and because they didn't say anything that somehow confirms it. What a freakin clown.

Nothing is confirmed. But that none of the main tier1 part suppliers have been approached to develop and supply parts for FG and VE replacements due post 2016 is pretty ominous. Any all new Falcon or Commodore model requires at least four years to develop (going by past program timing).

BP'93 · 19-01-2013, 12:06 AM

*Ford have stated that Falcon is only advertised on social media websites, so really for traditional and faithful buyers, a large chunk of potential sales are gone :/*

In response to the article, I've been thinking, lets see how the arrival of VF Commodore goes and how the market reacts to it before C'dore becomes a car of the past. I can tell there is a lot of buyers holding back, both online and amongst conversations I've had with people. If Holden gets C'dore back up to 3,000 Sales/Month or even 3,500, then thats a pretty good recovery. Add in Ute and Caprice and sales should be up on what they are selling now.

As for Falcon, well Ford hasn't done one thing in response and with VF Commodore looming and the failed EcoBoost experiment, I really can't see Falcon surviving 2013 before it's 2014 update? Falcon seems to resemble a sick animal that in reality, needs to be put to sleep. I know it's harsh but it's the truth :/

Elks · 19-01-2013, 10:52 AM

BP'93, I couldn't disagree more with you.

The have been EcoBoost and Territory add on the TV in recent times. In addition to social media. And let's face it. Social media is real, you're on here aren't you?

2014 falcon upgrade has loads of new features and should hold its own, but yes it's probably 12 months late which will hurt unless Ford chase down the fleet markets

Archilino · 19-01-2013, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

In a way it will be a bit of Karma if Falcon stops production.
The way some of you bag out GM and commodore, a company and car nearly the same.

So the falcon should die because Ford fans on a Ford forum stick the boot into its arch enemy? Great logic genius...

ZGM86 · 19-01-2013, 12:48 PM

Dowling's misinformation and presentation of speculation as fact is trickling into the mainstream media now. Someone above said that the channel 7 morning show said that Falcon was ending in 2016, The Project last night made the same announcement, and my local newspaper the Mercury reported the same thing. The average Joe on the street is going to see/read it and assume it's the truth.

Ford really needs to say something to address all the lies, assumptions, and misinformation that is dominating the media at the moment. I've replied to a couple of online articles disputing their claims, but I'm just one person.

XBROO · 19-01-2013, 12:49 PM

Has to be true heard H.G Nelson say it on the 7o'clock project, last night.LOL

Rico 110s · 19-01-2013, 12:59 PM

As for Falcon, well Ford hasn't done one thing in response and with VF Commodore looming and the failed EcoBoost experiment, I really can't see Falcon surviving 2013 before it's 2014 update? Falcon seems to resemble a sick animal that in reality, needs to be put to sleep. I know it's harsh but it's the truth :/ Quoted by BP93

Ford are advertising the Ecoboost now and being a new product still, it was always going to be hard to get sales due to the last 4 cylinder in a big car experience IE: 4 cylinder VC-VH Commodore it worked so well it was dropped before the VK was released.

Please correct info: NZ market still had 4 Cylinder.

Ford just needs to change current perceptions of this car as it is nothing like the Starfire 4.