cops using camo nets to hide behind! In ...VIC!

[vanman_75]

Catching lunatics not catching speed ...I speed a lot ...but I don't condone racetrack antics on public roads .I also love bends but not at the risk of myself and others.
Yes Vic is over the top but if people are dying there , then what else would you expect police to do ?
I live on a street about 2 k long in town and I watch hundreds of people a day from bikes to trucks doing well over 100 , and with my perception of speed many over 150-200 .its not the place , houses are set back off road but the street is full of kids and old people ..dreading the day when someone gets collected ..daily police presence doesn't slow em down .
I am sure it frustrates them , as it does me .

In this case I think its just ..

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

Yes Vic is over the top but if people are dying there , then what else would you expect police to do ?

What about enforcing the rest of the road rules?

[Djrystofer]

I thought it stated somewhere in the rules that speed camera's/HWP have to be in plain side and not hidden?

If so, typical of them to bend the rules to their will.

If not, typical of HWP to do something so radical just so they can put a few fines on their daily total.

Must be some form of competition in the workplace, 'who can get the most tickets in a day'

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hate comments like this!!

Yep, I detest comments like yours below. You are the perfect target for TAC garbage.

Originally Posted by Joe5619

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

Really? How so? Speeding tickets have done nothing to save lives. Ever considered the safety aspect of vehicles and how many of the exclusive luxury SRS' have filtered down even to the cheapest of cars. Do you even realise Victoria have black listed vehicles from sale without ESP?

I'm amazed with all the doo gooder car driver slinging it to bike riders and not one of you have even bothered to look up the real satistics on the TAC website, not the buulshit they put in the media.
Why do so many of you just believe what is printed or played in the media?

Have any of you noticed the TAC where a driver turns right in front of the rider and the rider gets the blame is no lnger aired? Why not? Because the statistics used were challanged. It turns out that they used stats from something like Hawaii from 15 years ago.

Wake up people! All tha rego money is being used against you with ******** marketing.

Just a couple facts for you based on 12 months rolling TAC calander.


2011-2012 2012-2013
Bicyclist 10 3 -7 -70% 8
Driver 126 149 23 18% 140
Motorcyclist* 49 42 -7 -14% 45
Passenger 64 46 -18 -28% 61
Pedestrian 47 35 -12 -26% 47

[Auslandau]

All I will ask is ..... Is it better to prevent speeding with a high visible presence or hide in the bushes and wait for the crime to be committed?

Please don't hide in the bushes ..... just driving a highly visible car is all that it takes. Prevention rather than reaction. Save lives or make money. Costs money, doesn't make money ...... OH wait. See the problem!

As for the thread. It is a highly emotive topic so lets try and not make it personal or a police bashing exercise. Thanks

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Brazen

In reality Australia has one of the slowest and most sedate driving populations on the planet. You fly back from Europe, Asia and the Americas and drive from an Australian airport and it honestly feels like everything is in slow motion it is borderline embarassing. As my French colleague says while he was here 'there must be nothing but grandmothers on the road'.

So true. Last year when I was in California, everyone drives fast. I was often sitting at 5mph over and being overtaken by most other people.
I did not see one accident, not even a close call. We were on the road a fair bit, most days we did 2-3 hours of driving. On 2 days we did about 6hours.

Leaving LA driving in the carpool lane, I followed an Escalade for about 20 minutes. I was just keeping pace with him and our speed was varying from 80-90 mph. I did the maths and then realized that's 128-145kmh. It did not feel very fast or dangerous at all. A few cars even caught up to us.
I was doing about 10 over and passed a cop doing speed checks, he didn't stop me. Here I would of been fined and told I'm a suicidal maniac who should never drive a car again.

Fly back to Australia and after driving through Sydney for 5 minutes I witness 2 halfwits almost hit each other while doing about 65 in an 80 zone.
I honestly don't think speed is the biggest problem on the road.

I think hivis policing in the best. If a cop car was a common sight on teh roads it would improve most peoples driving behaviours.
Sure a camera can catch a speeder, but there is many more dangerous driving maneuvers which a camera cannot catch.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

What about enforcing the rest of the road rules?

Don't take it the wrong way I agree , just in this instance I can't see the wrong .can't stand seeing camo to book for money ....but if its the last resort then well?

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by flappist

You have evidence of this?

Up until 2007 NT had no speed limit. People drove at the speed at which they felt comfortable.

There were some that were trying vMax but these were almost ALL visitors from other states where speed limits were low and in almost all cases after one run at high speed settled back to what was comfortable.

In 2007 a spped limit was introduced. The road toll did not drop, in fact it increased by more than 50%. This did not appear on mainstream media. I wonder why? Open zones will be back shortly as the NT people have worked out that the brainwashing from the southerners was, in fact, all lies.

Now that is REAL and ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

It is amusing to watch just how upset do-gooders get when reality contradicts their theories and follow them trying to explain how reality is WRONG........

Hi Flappist. I don't want to get into a urinating competition here. My post was simply intended to convey an alternative viewpoint - devil's advocate, if you will.

We're a funny old bunch us humans. We sometimes tend to jump straight onto 'the authorities' and howl these sorts of tactics down, yet if the shoe somehow ends up on our foot (IE. we fall victim to Ronnie Racer on his Fireblade/ in his VN Commodore/ WRX or whatever) then we'd be screaming for justice.

We can't have two bob each way on this, sometimes a line needs to be drawn in the sand. I don't really think that the coppers involved in that particular operation are looking to write tickets for people doing 5kms over the posted speed limit. I dare say that plenty of motorists have made complaints about driving incidents on the 'Spur' and now they need to be seen to be addressing those complaints.

I base my comments on my own experiences with how the same sorts of situations arise in Queensland, and ultimately how they're dealt with.

We have similar issues in Far North Queensland with a scenic drive from Cairns to Port Douglas a favourite among local riders, me included. The antics of some of the riders and drivers on that road are the subject of regular complaints to police and from time to time they have an operation to clamp down on it.

With reference to the Northern Territory road tolls, I think someone mentioned earlier that you can't really compare the NT and Victoria and I think that's a fair comment. I've ridden and driven through the territory a few times and I'm having trouble remembering if I actually had to turn a corner on either trip - don't think so though!

It's interesting to look at their road toll figures. You're exactly right in saying that they bought in the speed limit in 2007 and that in 2008 the toll jumped 50% (from 57 to 75). In 2009 it actually dropped nearly 60% (to 31 - maybe they all decided to chill out and slow down a bit!) so I guess that shows the danger of relying solely on statistics.

Whilst I couldn't rightfully claim the title of do-gooder, I suppose that this could be seen as a reality that seems to contradict your theory!

Just my opinion - and we all know what they're like!

Over to you mate,

Russ

[flappist]

One point that is almost always overlooked it that Police have a duty to uphold the law, regardless of just how useless or stupid it is.
They don't make the laws, they just uphold them.

Remember it was in the Moomba parade in Melbourne some years ago when Victorian Police officers seized a car painted like a one pound note and actually charged the driver with counterfitting.

Now the way to fix any law that is not effective and just revenue oriented is to take on the politicians.

A couple of years ago the Brisbane City Council under the leadership of the current Premier decided to no longer allow motorcycles to park under bridges and in small blocks of useless land in the CBD as they believed it looked tacky and was interfering with revinue from the parking meters.
Motorcyclists banded together (as we do) and one Saturday morning parked out the entire CBD with one bike per car space and moved them on every hour so as not to get a parking fine.
This brought the transport in the CBD to a screaming halt and if it had been a weekday would have cost millions in lost shopping revenue and inconvenienced lots of public vegetables.
Brisbane does not have trams and the public transport system is fragile and overloaded on a good day.

the Council got the message and decided that the several thousand commuter bikes could continue to park under bridges etc. as it was a better solution than an extra couple of hundred dollars a day.

The way to REALLY upset the Victorian Government is for EVERYONE to detach their number plates for a month.

It would completely stuff the income from speed cameras and they do not have enough Police to even come close to sorting it out. As an added bonus Scruby and the Monash morons would probably choke on their own dribble.

Unfortunately it would never happen because as opposed to motorcyclists in QLD, Victorian drivers, and unfortunately more and more drivers from other states, commonly show symptoms of "battered wives syndrome" http://www.adfvc.unsw.edu.au/PDF%20files/battered%20_woman_syndrome.pdf"

They only fine you because they love you and if you were just more obedient you would not get fined.

Remember the rule of thumb, a law created by an elected parliament, enforced by Police and condoned by the do-gooders of the time. A man may beat his wife as much as he feels appropriate provided the stick used is no thicker than his thumb.

Sometimes laws that are originally made with all the right intentions are just WRONG........

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by EDManual

oh yeah?! show me the proof?! Where? Show me 1!??

That is just not possible. Yet if you check accident statistics there is plenty of evidence of speeding being the cause of accidents. Just as drink driving, inattentaveness etc. Using your rationale you could ask, prove how stopping a drink driver has saved any lives.

It's like having a shoo roo fitted to your car, how do you know it works, or is it just good luck that you've never hit one.

As for being in plain sight, thats rediculous, people will just slow down, just like when they get flashed, then once past the camera, speed up. If habitual speeders keep getting caught by fair or foul means, then they desrve it.

But I have noticed with a few of your threads ED, you are usually banging on about Police and giving people tickets.

Either cop it sweet, or don't speed.

[XrRabbit]

When I speed whether its 5 over the limit or I'm doing 150 on a race track I'm paying 100% attention to the road! To what people around me are doing to the conditions everything. When I'm doing the speed limit or less kind of laid back abit. Still look at what's going on around me and stuff

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by jaydee

That is just not possible. Yet if you check accident statistics there is plenty of evidence of speeding being the cause of accidents. Just as drink driving, inattentaveness etc. Using your rationale you could ask, prove how stopping a drink driver has saved any lives.

It's like having a shoo roo fitted to your car, how do you know it works, or is it just good luck that you've never hit one.

As for being in plain sight, thats ridiculous, people will just slow down, just like when they get flashed, then once past the camera, speed up. If habitual speeders keep getting caught by fair or foul means, then they desrve it.

But I have noticed with a few of your threads ED, you are usually banging on about Police and giving people tickets.

Either cop it sweet, or don't speed.

Think I just fainted .......

Enough police driving around makes you check what you are doing. A letter in the mail 4 weeks later does what to fix the situation compared to copping a slap at that moment? Again .... better to prevent or as an after thought? I just think its so logical ... but then logic doesn't fit with this multi million dollar industry. Oh .... the rest I do not agree with either by the way.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by Djrystofer

I thought it stated somewhere in the rules that speed camera's/HWP have to be in plain side and not hidden?

If so, typical of them to bend the rules to their will.

If not, typical of HWP to do something so radical just so they can put a few fines on their daily total.

Must be some form of competition in the workplace, 'who can get the most tickets in a day'

It wasn't a speed camera it was a radar.

[flappist]

I heard a rumour Channel 9 are looking for scripts for the next crime series and as they have done murder, drugs and armed robbery they have decided to finally tackle the big one.

UNDERBELLY Fastness

[Chopped]

The best deterrent to speeding are actual marked police cars driving on the road. Most motorists are well behaved and stick to the limit whilst in the presence of a police car.

Hiding behind camo is more of an ambush.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

How about be well behaved because it is the right thing to do for yourself, your family and everyone around you, why do you need a cop in a marked police car to watch you to enable you to act like a normal human being while behind the wheel??

Drive according to the road rules and you have nothing to fear from cops hiding in the bushes, behind camo nets or where ever else they may hide, has never concerned me if there are cops hiding somewhere, have never not concentrated on the road or traffic because I was too busy looking for cops hiding or radar guns or cameras, like some in this thread have suggested.

Originally Posted by Kable72

I'm with ED on this one. This sort of tactic not only puts officers at risk but it's putting other motorists on the road at risk. What is going to happen is that people are going to have to look harder for the speed traps and while they're looking harder, they're not paying attention.

For what reason do you have to look hard for speed traps???

Obviously you are the person the police are looking for, as you are suggesting you are too busy speeding and looking to try and not to get caught, to concentrate on other road users and what is going on around you, so you are too 'busy' to pay attention as you are looking for speed traps

Great argument that speeding is safe there mate, you should be a road safety expert

Originally Posted by Ducati888

It wasn't a speed camera it was a radar.

It wasn't a radar it was a video camera as was explained in this thread.

May be re read post 53

[GTP-RPD]

Originally Posted by Ben73

So true. Last year when I was in California, everyone drives fast. I was often sitting at 5mph over and being overtaken by most other people.
I did not see one accident, not even a close call. We were on the road a fair bit, most days we did 2-3 hours of driving. On 2 days we did about 6hours.

Leaving LA driving in the carpool lane, I followed an Escalade for about 20 minutes. I was just keeping pace with him and our speed was varying from 80-90 mph. I did the maths and then realized that's 128-145kmh. It did not feel very fast or dangerous at all. A few cars even caught up to us.
I was doing about 10 over and passed a cop doing speed checks, he didn't stop me. Here I would of been fined and told I'm a suicidal maniac who should never drive a car again.

Fly back to Australia and after driving through Sydney for 5 minutes I witness 2 halfwits almost hit each other while doing about 65 in an 80 zone.
I honestly don't think speed is the biggest problem on the road.

I think hivis policing in the best. If a cop car was a common sight on teh roads it would improve most peoples driving behaviours.
Sure a camera can catch a speeder, but there is many more dangerous driving maneuvers which a camera cannot catch.

Totally agree and having driven overseas in a number of ****ries we are being dumbed down as drivers and seem to be following the UK Model of target every driver all of the time. We are becoming like the poms. Our authorities seem to forget the size of this country.

[jmac]

My 5 cents.. Speed cameras should be marked in accident black spots to slow drivers down.

Last time I checked people don't slow down for cameras if they don't know they are there.
Hiding them behind signs or under bridges isn't preventing accidents.

Put them in every school zone for a good start, paint them yellow and have flashing lights.... That's safety.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by roberts

dont speed dont pay.

People like you and the other few posters here have no idea.

Here, have a read: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1226080249071

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by jmac

My 5 cents.. Speed cameras should be marked in accident black spots to slow drivers down.

Last time I checked people don't slow down for cameras if they don't know they are there.
Hiding them behind signs or under bridges isn't preventing accidents.

Put them in every school zone for a good start, paint them yellow and have flashing lights.... That's safety.

But it gets the drivers paying and hopefully off into public transport for a while

Again so you can only behave normally when you see yellow pained camera with flashing lights????

[dooleys2]

wow - what will they think of next? ninja suits for night time road blitzs?

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Ben73

So true. Last year when I was in California, everyone drives fast. I was often sitting at 5mph over and being overtaken by most other people.
I did not see one accident, not even a close call. We were on the road a fair bit, most days we did 2-3 hours of driving. On 2 days we did about 6hours.

Leaving LA driving in the carpool lane, I followed an Escalade for about 20 minutes. I was just keeping pace with him and our speed was varying from 80-90 mph. I did the maths and then realized that's 128-145kmh. It did not feel very fast or dangerous at all. A few cars even caught up to us.
I was doing about 10 over and passed a cop doing speed checks, he didn't stop me. Here I would of been fined and told I'm a suicidal maniac who should never drive a car again.

Fly back to Australia and after driving through Sydney for 5 minutes I witness 2 halfwits almost hit each other while doing about 65 in an 80 zone.
I honestly don't think speed is the biggest problem on the road.

I think hivis policing in the best. If a cop car was a common sight on teh roads it would improve most peoples driving behaviours.
Sure a camera can catch a speeder, but there is many more dangerous driving maneuvers which a camera cannot catch.

A quick google and came up with this, you must have been on the roads on a quiet day.

Out of the 42,642 traffic fatalities in the US in 2006, the State of California ranked number 1, making it the state with the most number of car accidents in the country.

The top 5 states and the corresponding number of accidents in 2006 are as follow:

California 4,236
Texas 3,475
Florida 3,374
Georgia 1,693
North Carolina 1,559

[BHDOGS]

i always enjoy these threads and the extremists at both ends

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Chopped

The best deterrent to speeding are actual marked police cars driving on the road. Most motorists are well behaved and stick to the limit whilst in the presence of a police car.

Hiding behind camo is more of an ambush.

yes most people slow down for marked police cars but speed up again the moment the police car turns off or is out of sight.

getting a ticket in the mail 4 weeks later may not be the preferable option but when your licence is then on the line due to points many may or will reconsider their speed or manner of driving for a while. Those that don't will likely end up losing their licence and be off the road.

the thread is about one section of road where excessive speeding, mostly by motorcyclists, has been identified and is being dealt with by Police. The reason for their covert method has been explained too.

A shame that they, the Police, can't please everyone on here but hey that's life. Maybe, just maybe, they are saving some lives by this operation despite the howls of protest and claims by some.

[LTDHO]

I have to agree that police need to be seen more (I am aware this would cost more and generate less income) as it will raise awareness to road users rather than target them for an error.

I could be wrong but some people will not be deterred by fines. Whilst a law is broken, the fine to them is just police revenue raising and not looking after the public. The scare tactics do not work either as most have the mentality of ‘that wont happen to me’

Police need to be seen as the good guys with our (road users) interests at heart.

[FGX-351]

How can they ensure they are following the Australian standards for Operational proceedures 4691.1-2003 & device requirements 4691.2-2003 while playing Rambo under a net?

Alot of times these Lidar devices are being incorrectly operated as it is, i'm currently set to challenge one in court.

I agree with marked police cars being visible.
What's more likely to make you slow down?

A. Seeing a police officer in a marked car and knowing they're watching so behave yourself!.
Or B. Receiving a poor quality picture of your car on a fine a month later.....because you can cause so many vehicular accidents standing by your mailbox....

[Stagg]

Well, I think that speed cameras have reduced the road toll here in VIC, although by exactly how much I would not be sure. Of course people don't speed with the amount of cameras here in the nanny state.

That said, I think that if the focus was on enforcing speed, it would not really matter if the coppers were obvious, as people would be slowing down any way. Which is what I pay my tax money for.

The fact that they are hiding in camo nets just suggests to me that they are focusing more on revenue than anything else.

[BadMax]

Have any of you drones actualy driven overseas let alone been overseas? Seriously, first world countries have in general higher speed limits and the point is everyone concentrates on what they are doing not the speed they are doing or facebooking or doing thier hair or whatever.

Speed does not kill! It's the inability of the driver to perfomr the task they have at hand. If speed kills so often then why are they catching so many people speeding? Shouldn't they all be dead?

Stop believing the media! TAC are being taken to task more and more often and coming out looking like idiots, enough is enough.

[EVLKNEVL]

The problem with using money as a deterrent for breaking road rules is that it's something extremely valuable to the government. It's impossible to accept that there are no auxiliary motives for building speed camera networks besides road safety, when it is clearly apparent how much the government stands to gain from them.

This is the foundation of corruption.

It's no coincidence that the independent studies done on this matter (the ones performed by bodies who don't stand to gain financially from them) typically contradict the notion that speed cameras are effective in increasing road safety, in fact many show that speed cameras are actually counter-productive to road safety. I have posted links to such studies on here in the past; they are very thorough, and transparent about how their data is collected and collated.

If the fine money was abolished from every traffic offence and the points system amended to more accurately reflect the severity of individual offences, we could end up with a fair and equitable system which efficiently weeds drivers off the road who demonstrate that they pose a danger thereon, and allows those who use the road wisely and safely to do so in a legitimate environment. But for that to happen the governments would need to stop lusting after money and in particular, money they have not earned and do not deserve.

Apologies if that was slightly off topic.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Yep, I detest comments like yours below. You are the perfect target for TAC garbage.



Really? How so? Speeding tickets have done nothing to save lives. Ever considered the safety aspect of vehicles and how many of the exclusive luxury SRS' have filtered down even to the cheapest of cars. Do you even realise Victoria have black listed vehicles from sale without ESP?

so

1.you state that safety features in cars save lives ( I agree)

2. but you don't believe that enforcement does ( i believe it does)

Can you please provide the actual proof that safety features like ABS/ESP have saved any lives

people on here complain about others believing tabloid TV/newspapers but then post up talkback radio type selective statements w/out real proof.