Are FWD cars such a bad thing

[Bushbasher]

For the masses that live in suburbia and never see a country road or, god forbid, a dirt road, FWD is probably perfectly ok. There's a reason you don't see too many little buzz boxes or Magnas/Camrys out in the country away from suburbia and regional towns. That's because out here where the wildlife can quickly put a downer on your day, or a slick dirt road after a good rain can make getting from A to B a whole lot more exciting whether you like it or not, the big RWD car rules. If you hit a 7' Western Red buck, which would you prefer to be in, a small/ medium FWD or a Falcon/Commodore? If you're travelling down dusty, bumpy, sometimes corrugated, sometimes loose dirt roads what would you prefer to be in, a big RWD sedan or a FWD anything. I for one will always have a big RWD car for the above reasons plus, as has been said, for towing my trailer around because I too believe the vehicle should be heavier than the load it's pulling and I don't want to be running a 4x4 daily which costs more to run and maintain and is less comfortable to travel in. On top of all that, a big RWD sedan/ute/wagon is a whole lot easier to work on and maintain yourself by virtue of the fact there's actually room to work under the bonnet without completely dismantling the front of the car to get at anything. Give me a Falcon or Fairlane any day. There'll always be one parked in my driveway.


Bushbasher

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

The reasons I hate wrong wheel drive are as follows:

1. Torque steer. Its not fun when you nail it and the thing wants to send you towards the nearest pole.
2. Understeer. Its not fun when you want to turn and the car keeps going straight.

for the rest of us, there's this thing called throttle control ....

[ryeman]

A FWD will go further on muddy icy roads than RWD assuming = ground clearance. A lot of yanks have found out the hard way in a north American winter trying to just get home.
Thrust vectoring is the key to crawling home rather than sliding tail first down the camber or getting stuck in a rut literally.
You would be amazed how good they are if you are not in the mind for hooning around.
The poms don't seem to see it as being a problem towing either.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stevz

Those who use their cars as A to B appliances will obviously not care which wheels are driven, but anyone who has an interest in cars and a passion for driving will know that fwd just doesn't cut it in terms of feel, handling and driving enjoyment.

yet oddly, FWD hot hatches, marketed squarely at those with a passion for driving, do appear to cut it in terms of feel, handling and driving enjoyment.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by mcnews

The Mini Cooper S we just got has an LSD which goes some way to alleviating the on power dramas of FWD but in a perfect world it too would be RWD.

Hmm...I'm just going to sit here and let that sink in for a minute...in a "perfect world", a Mini Cooper would be RWD...

Originally Posted by Wretched

You need to get out of 1950's and into the 21st century.
Have you driven a Focus RS, ST, Fiesta ST, Renault Clio Sport, Megane RS265, etc? All are FWD but will shame many more powerful RWD cars around a track.

I'd agree...the sad part is an awful lot of people are missing out on driving some really interesting and exciting cars by refusing to consider anything with FWD...

Originally Posted by ryeman

A FWD will go further on muddy icy roads than RWD assuming = ground clearance. A lot of yanks have found out the hard way in a north American winter trying to just get home.
Thrust vectoring is the key to crawling home rather than sliding tail first down the camber or getting stuck in a rut literally.
You would be amazed how good they are if you are not in the mind for hooning around.
The poms don't seem to see it as being a problem towing either.

Thrust vectoring is one of the big features in most of the stuff on the Ford USA website.
http://www.ford.com/technology/

[bdave351]

FWD has its place.

And its NOT in my garage spot for a performance car.

Still have a Mazda SP25 for the missus which is great as a daily and she gets treated much better than Ford dealers ever did for either of us.

No way in hell would I buy a FWD from Ford (Sorry to all the FWD Ford folk here) when I can get a car as good or better from another brand and better service.

For me Ford will always be about performance cars (yes Im from the performance and FWD are mutally exclusive school) so if they dont have a decent hot falcon, or start bringing in the Mustang for us then I cant see myself ever buying another Ford.

And a few short years ago I would have found that unthinkable after a life of Ford ownership.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I'd agree...the sad part is an awful lot of people are missing out on driving some really interesting and exciting cars by refusing to consider anything with FWD...

Speak for yourself. I'm absolutely positively certain there is nothing I am missing out on and even if there was I really couldn't care less.
Exciting? I reckon I'd find using public transport more exciting.
People have been sticking the knives into Falcons and Commodores for years, but how dare anyone have a negative opinion on some imported fwd buzzbox?

[DJM83]

Edit- not even going to bother.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Hmm...I'm just going to sit here and let that sink in for a minute...in a "perfect world", a Mini Cooper would be RWD...

Yes, strange comment. Is he talking about the BMW Mini or the original that beat the pants off every RWD in races in the 1960s?

Having driven FWDs since the BMC originals I'd observe generally that on a small car FWD is better than RWD, but on a large car not.

But it's not black and white. Some FWDs are very well designed and on the other hand there have been many very poor efforts over the years (the Holden Camira took the cake as the worst in my experience). Some pretty awful RWDs too.

Doing 12,000 ks in an Octavia last year in all sorts of driving environments I wouldn't fault it one bit over the Territory. Bugger all difference as far as I'm concerned, both high quality drives with excellent dynamics. And different size cars, of course, each with the most appropriate drive train for its size.

[mcnews]

Just my preference, heritage aside, I would prefer the Mini as a RWD. Not hard to understand is it....

[Neale]

Good to see the reasons why some people prefer FWD or RWD & there are a lot of valid points.

It interesting to see peoples thought on FWD being an understeering car.
I took the focus out on a wet track & found it to be more oversteer than understeer. Not saying that it didn't understeer if you came too fast into a corner, but after adapting my driving style I found it to oversteer more than understeer, as you can see in this in car vid from the day - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNGrxE9lShw

One thing that I didn't like though was when you put the foot down in the wet & the front wheels spin & then I had no steer.

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

For the masses that live in suburbia and never see a country road or, god forbid, a dirt road, FWD is probably perfectly ok. There's a reason you don't see too many little buzz boxes or Magnas/Camrys out in the country away from suburbia and regional towns. That's because out here where the wildlife can quickly put a downer on your day, or a slick dirt road after a good rain can make getting from A to B a whole lot more exciting whether you like it or not, the big RWD car rules. If you hit a 7' Western Red buck, which would you prefer to be in, a small/ medium FWD or a Falcon/Commodore? If you're travelling down dusty, bumpy, sometimes corrugated, sometimes loose dirt roads what would you prefer to be in, a big RWD sedan or a FWD anything. I for one will always have a big RWD car for the above reasons plus, as has been said, for towing my trailer around because I too believe the vehicle should be heavier than the load it's pulling and I don't want to be running a 4x4 daily which costs more to run and maintain and is less comfortable to travel in. On top of all that, a big RWD sedan/ute/wagon is a whole lot easier to work on and maintain yourself by virtue of the fact there's actually room to work under the bonnet without completely dismantling the front of the car to get at anything. Give me a Falcon or Fairlane any day. There'll always be one parked in my driveway.


Bushbasher

I live in Central West NSW & most cars are either FWD or 4WD cars around out here & there are some dodgy roads out here if you can call some of them roads.

One mate I know did have BA XR8 falcon but broke the front crossmember on the same roads that I drive on in a FWD & I haven't had a problem.

My focus has even survived hitting a wombat with only superficial damage to the front bar, & some mates have hit their fair share of roos & survived in small cars.

I can agree on your point about the towing though, I wouldn't want to to a heavy load in a small FWD car, but I have used the focus to tow light loads in a small box trailer without a problem.

[olds]

Yes they are terrible to drive . Torque steer on acceleration ( that is if you have one of the few models that have reasonable acceleration )

[mik]

Originally Posted by ryeman

A FWD will go further on muddy icy roads than RWD assuming = ground clearance. A lot of yanks have found out the hard way in a north American winter trying to just get home.
Thrust vectoring is the key to crawling home rather than sliding tail first down the camber or getting stuck in a rut literally.
You would be amazed how good they are if you are not in the mind for hooning around.
The poms don't seem to see it as being a problem towing either.

i think front wheel drive will only get you so far on the truly slippery stuff, even a dedicated heavy weight 4wd drive you can slide off the road in 4wd on a flat but cambered road unless you have spiked tyres or chains (found that out the hard way), mud lugs do nothing on hard ice or hard teflon like clay.

[WILDB]

Most of my vehicles have be RWD, obviously including my 3 Falcons, however 3 of my vehicles have been FWD - all with 110 or more kw - the current being my ST. These 3 vehicles are the vehicles which have been the best handling vehicles out of the lot.

I've driven plenty of different vehicles coming from both dealerships and now large fleet background, so have driven good and bad vehicles of all varieties - you can't judge an entire drive layout just because you've driven a shocker.

I would task the people bagging out on anything FWD to go and drive a large FWD vehicle such as the Mondeo, they are equal in size and weight to the Falcon - I would be surprised if a few of these 'opinions' didn't change...

Originally Posted by peteypete

I've had good experiences in FWD cars such as a WRX STI, but I would never purchase a FWD.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by mik

i think front wheel drive will only get you so far on the truly slippery stuff, even a dedicated heavy weight 4wd drive you can slide off the road in 4wd on a flat but cambered road unless you have spiked tyres or chains (found that out the hard way), mud lugs do nothing on hard ice or hard teflon like clay.

Yep it has to be driven v carefully with delicate throttle control but under such conditions RWD is hopelessly stranded.
In fact muddies on a FWD would be pretty hard to get stranded in unless you run aground, studded on ice also.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just my preference, heritage aside, I would prefer the Mini as a RWD. Not hard to understand is it....

Having owned a couple of (the original) Minis I find it very hard to understand I'm afraid.

It just wouldn't work. The small RWD cars of the time were evil-handling things.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just my preference, heritage aside, I would prefer the Mini as a RWD. Not hard to understand is it....

It would be an interesting drive that's for sure, powerfull and short wheelbase rear driver. would be as skatey/twitchy as hell. though designing one to be RWD would effectively have lengthen the wheelbase then youd have...an 86/brz thing...

JP

[Sprint]

Lets Torque steer this thread into a ditch.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Lets Torque steer this thread into a ditch.

Not if we don't oversteer it into a pole first

JP

[ryeman]

DSC will fix it anyway unless intending to defy the law of physics.

[Franco Cozzo]

I don't know about you guys but I got raped by a VW GTI in my EL Falcon with 138KW at the rears today. I couldn't even keep up with it on a long straight, it was pulling away from me the whole time when I gave him a run and it put a few car lengths of distance between us easily.

RWD didn't help me there at all, and he didn't understeer into a tree with his bazillions of torque steer he supposedly has, I had no chance keeping up with him in the twisties either.

We were heading out back of Wildwood near Sunbury, there is a real hilly/twisty area and I had this VW GTI up my *** all the way, except when he overtook on the long straight and I tried keeping up and I had no chance.

138KW at the wheels isn't much but I expected to put up a much better fight than I did, lol.

Anyways, I've got both FWD and RWD cars (2 of each), and to be honest, I prefer the way FWD cars drive, its easier to deal with understeer, than oversteer, I've got a TDCI Focus, which is putting 340nm through the front wheels and it only barely torque steers in 3rd gear.

FWD cars seem to handle better in conditions like dirt/gravel roads too.

And the thing about east/west cars being hard to work on, I find all cars are bastards to work on, there is always some bastard job you have to do, which is in a horrible spot.

[ebv8]

RWD cars are generally enthusiest cars
FWD cars are generally shopping carts
how many non sport model FWD car to people collect and get all excited about (apart from a morris mini)
now how many RWD base model cars do enthusiests keep to admire and play with?

Imagine summernats in 30 years will you cheer for a FWD Ford do a burnout or a RWD Commodore

[In Focus]

For the RWD boys who can't handle a bit of torque steer.

[FGII-XR6]

FWD is better for those that can't drive . RWD is more fun but in the hands of a bad driver you can get in ore trouble. personally as an old speedway driver ( wet clay fun stuff) I prefer a RWD car but I can see a day when they will be rare. the falcon only has a few years and I don't think the dunnydore has much longer.
the car makers love FWD as they are cheaper to make ( not better) meaning good engines like the falcon I6 are too big to fit.

[BENT_8]

I have always been a RWD guy, had all different types of them and they have their place, but to dismiss a FWD simply on towing, drifting and torque steer ability is ignorant.

I currently have a VRX Magna in manual and unless I really stand on the go pedal it has almost no torque steer, if I was to stand on the gas of a RWD car it will kick its *** sideways if its got the guts to do so.
It is more precise on the twisties with its 12 year old suspension than my previous AU with fully rebuilt suspension.

Lets look at towing, if the load is evenly distributed then there should be little impact on the handling as the vehicles ride should be level. As has been said, a 1600kg load should add no more weight to a FWD car than having 2 extra adults in the back seat as only 160kg should be pressing down on the rear.
Too many people load up their towbar dangerously and wonder why their steering feels twitchy, which will happen to RWD just as much as FWD.

As for going sideways, well I don't own a private block of land or have access to one so drifting isn't something high on the list of priorities.

[Ben73]

I have only owned 3 cars. But one was RWD one was FWD and one was AWD.

AWD seamed to handle bends great while under acceleration or in rain
RWD is fun when the back end gets out. Never has on any public road
FWD is safe and cheap apparently.

I will have a tough time deciding between RWD or AWD for my future cars. All it depends on is the particular vehicle.


I don't care what anyone else wants, its all just personal preference. But I wont be getting a FWD any time soon.
Probably get one for the missus next car though.

[calais]

I have had a stack of different cars, a multitude of layouts and I just dont care anymore.

Right now I drive an 07 Accord Euro auto and it is up there with the best cars I've ever owned or driven. Its smooth, simple and handles well. When im hooking down windsor rd in sydney every day to and from the base like I am..... I cant justify the need for anything either more powerful or with a more specialised skillset of towing or whatever like a falcon or commodore.

My FWD does me fine. And it doesnt make me any less an enthusiast.

[Rev28K]

Daily driver - doesn't matter
Towing or big power - RWD or AWD preferred
Track days - whatever is quickest or the most fun (FWD's can be very good)

Don't forget that FWD can be flipped around for mid-engined RWD cars a la FIAT X1/9, Toyota MR2, FF 818, etc. The Lamborghini Miura owed its layout to the original BMC Mini. The Lotus Evora, Elise and Bolwell Nagari exist because of the humble Toyota Camry. Also BMW are FWD with the Mini and there will prob be a BMW-badged FWD later this year.

The best thing a car can do is suit it's purpose without giving you the irrits. As a DD FWD is acceptable to the vast majority. I'd rather drive an exceptional FWD than a below average RWD (owned 5 FWD and 4 RWD, tracked 6 of them).

[Crazy Dazz]

Not really sure of the whole point of this thread? If YOU want a FWD, go and buy one. Nobody is stopping you, and there’s plenty of choice.
To belittle people’s justifiable angst st the demise of Ford Australia and The Falcon, on the fatuous assumption that it is simply about RWD, is really ignorant and rather poor.

But for the sake of Argument, I will also make the obvious point. List all the truly great cars available, and the classic cars from history. Sports cars, super cars, BMW, Mercs, Jags, etc. Count the number of FWD?
Now list all the cheap, practical, boring, economical, forgettable, “do the job”, cars that flood our streets from Korea and China. Count the number of RWD? Point made.

My XR4 is the epitome of a Hot Hatch, but would be twice as good in RWD or AWD.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by peteypete

because I've had good experiences in FWD cars such as a WRX STI, but I would never purchase a FWD.

Oh?

Tell me more about the FWD STi WRX you drove. I'm dying to know, because last I heard, WRX STi's were all oh, AWD!!

Yes.. Just what I expect from the sort of unintelligent knuckle draggers who use gay jokes, racist jibes, sexist jokes, to beat their chests and prove their manliness by pedalling a misinformed opinion of a class of car that includes some ripper drives that they will miss out on because of their own backward bigotry. Some of the behaviour and comments (directed at foreigners, foreign cars and foreign car buys, as well as 4cyl cars, and FWD cars) from people frequenting this forum since Big Bobby G's big Bummy announcement are pathetic, and ridiculous, and show a real nasty culture in some of these "fans" of Ford..

Why don't you all shut up, get over it, and check this out.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=r...&v=wJZ6JB-0G5E

I've got both FWD and RWD. Love them both and will defend them to the hills. If any of the usual Neanderthals did any research they'd know the RS Megane has an LSD, beautifully weighted and feel some steering, and a chassis to die for. With the traction control set to sport or off, the thing just slingshots around corners...

Stevz, tell us about your knowledge on how all FWD cars are rubbish? I'm sure your knowledge eclipses the worldwide motoring press, or journos at Evo mag, or Autocar or (oh forget it, those mags aren't even Strayan Made)..... Your commitment to Aussie made is honourable. But please, give it a f'ing bone..