Ford committed to factory closures: Graziano - Page 3

nstg8a · 10-10-2013, 07:37 PM

Ah the old export chestnut....

Who exactly were ford supposed to export the falcon to?

As we have seen with Holden, and are seeing again, exporting from a country with a strong dollar, high wages and strong labour laws, coupled with moronic govt fta deals, is pure financial lunacy.

Ford are nothing, if not shrewd bean counters.

Nikked · 10-10-2013, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Seriously, I don’t even know where to begin that one... If you call 100 Territory’s exported 6 or so months before you decide to close a plant for good as "allow us to attempt exports", then I just can't do anything for you!!!

Did you forget that the Thai government all-but made the exports un-feasible?

Notice how Holden had to spend millions on the VF to make it more "American", only to export it in (projected) lower amounts then the previous attempts...and at a premium price?

Notice how Toyota run there local operations at a loss even with exports?

Nikked · 10-10-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Ford are nothing, if not shrewd bean counters.

Typical business...lol

I'm just happy that Ford are still largely their own company, not owned by a government nor a expanding European based brand umbrella...

Joe5619 · 10-10-2013, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Did you forget that the Thai government all-but made the exports un-feasible?

Notice how Holden had to spend millions on the VF to make it more "American", only to export it in (projected) lower amounts then the previous attempts...and at a premium price?

Notice how Toyota run there local operations at a loss even with exports?

You’re the one who brought up exports as options for Ford Aust, now you’re telling me they are crap anyway. Make your mind up!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Originally Posted by Nikked
Yeah, how dare Ford US allow Australia to engineer a 4cyl and a new gas system the falcon, how dare they allow us to install a diesel into the Territory...How dare they allow us to attempt exports

Nikked · 10-10-2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You’re the one who brought up exports as options for Ford Aust, now you’re telling me they are crap anyway. Make your mind up!!

I never said they were good, I mentioned that Ford have tried, were obviously you think they haven't...

Crazy Dazz · 10-10-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

I totally understand where you're coming from. The big question however, is if you or a family member/friend had a need that could be satisfied by one of Ford's offerings, would you not buy it/recommend against it purely out of spite? This is what some on here have alluded to. Doing that is just as bad as accepting dodgy products out of blind fandom.

You don't have to like the direction Ford have gone/will be going in, but it's what had to happen (overall)

I suppose the difference is that in the past I HAVE bought a Fiesta and a Focus, looked very hard at a Mondeo for the missus, pushed Rangers at a corporate level, and even preferred a Maverick over a genuine Patrol, BECAUSE I am/was a Ford (Falcon) man. I like old Americana, but consciously turn away from admiring Cadillacs & Chevys in favour of Fords & Lincolns.
Now, to be honest, I feel kicked in the guts by the Brand I gave my allegiance to.
And in future, yes, I won’t look at Ford’s offerings.

Do I “blame” them for making a “business” decision? Ultimately no, but I do blame them for not fighting hard enough, for shrugging their shoulders whilst our governments destroyed our auto-industry, and for slowly strangling the Falcon to death so they could claim it wasn’t worth keeping.
And so from now on, I will make “business” decisions and buy Nissans or Mazdas.

LeadFoot81 · 10-10-2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I suppose the difference is that in the past I HAVE bought a Fiesta and a Focus, looked very hard at a Mondeo for the missus, pushed Rangers at a corporate level, and even preferred a Maverick over a genuine Patrol, BECAUSE I am/was a Ford (Falcon) man. I like old Americana, but consciously turn away from admiring Cadillacs & Chevys in favour of Fords & Lincolns.
Now, to be honest, I feel kicked in the guts by the Brand I gave my allegiance to.
And in future, yes, I won’t look at Ford’s offerings.

Do I “blame” them for making a “business” decision? Ultimately no, but I do blame them for not fighting hard enough, for shrugging their shoulders whilst our governments destroyed our auto-industry, and for slowly strangling the Falcon to death so they could claim it wasn’t worth keeping.
And so from now on, I will make “business” decisions and buy Nissans or Mazdas.

To each his own. All the best.

borough · 10-10-2013, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

When Ford no longer produces a product that suits my needs.

But Ford has an extensive range available, and so long as Ford offers a product in the category that I'm looking at, then the Ford automatically takes precedence over any other competitor simply because it's a Ford, no questions asked, no explanations necessary. The fact that it's a Ford is enough.

To the guy that said he'd go out and buy a Kia Optima, how is it any better than a Ford Mondeo? For me, the fact that the Mondeo is a Ford is enough for me to buy it over a Kia Optima.

I never said that the Kia Optima is any better than the Mondeo, to me they are pretty much the same car. Both uninspiring 4cyl FWD cars, like at Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, i40, etc. Once the Falcon is gone so is Ford's point of difference that would get me into the showroom.

I have always been a large RWD sedan person, of which the Falcon is my favorite. Small cars do nothing for me. If the Falcon is still being produced in 2015-2016 my plan is to get a manual XR6. After that, well Ford will be on the bottom of my shopping list.

Buntz · 12-10-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yeah, how dare Ford US allow Australia to engineer a 4cyl and a new gas system the falcon, how dare they allow us to install a diesel into the Territory...How dare they allow us to attempt exports...

They had to be seen to be doing something. But once they got it sick enough, now they can give it a mercy killing without public backlash.

As regards exports... who stopped the Falcon's LHD development? Oh yeah... Ford US.

CyberWasp · 12-10-2013, 06:46 PM

Can I ask a dumb question?
Was there ever an attempt to sell the XR6T or GT in Engalnd as Holden did via Vauxhall?
If not why not?

malazn mafia · 12-10-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Can I ask a dumb question?
Was there ever an attempt to sell the XR6T or GT in Engalnd as Holden did via Vauxhall?
If not why not?

Garden variety AU / BA Utes were sold in the UK under a different badge some years ago. They were called Verte Tempest if I recall correctly. Don't think they sold too well.

KAM120 · 12-10-2013, 07:22 PM

The sad thing about this is our RWD options keep getting smaller and they're the more enjoyable cars to drive. If we lose the falcon and commodore what rwd options are left?. Not that many good options that provide the comfit, performance,space and value.

And another thing, large cars do sell just look around there's plenty of options out there if you want a large car. Ford wouldn't have built the Taurus if they didn't.

Why are manufacturers throwing these FWD econoboxes down our throughts? I'm certain they could've built the Taurus and the Mondeo RWD, why didn't they? they'd be more exciting cars if they were.

Nikked · 12-10-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

Why are manufacturers throwing these FWD econoboxes down our throughts?

So they can sell more cars that are cheaper to build, a large portion of car buyers don't have a care for FWD v's RWD...

Franco Cozzo · 12-10-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

The sad thing about this is our RWD options keep getting smaller and they're the more enjoyable cars to drive. If we lose the falcon and commodore what rwd options are left?. Not that many good options that provide the comfit, performance,space and value.

And another thing, large cars do sell just look around there's plenty of options out there if you want a large car. Ford wouldn't have built the Taurus if they didn't.

Why are manufacturers throwing these FWD econoboxes down our throughts? I'm certain they could've built the Taurus and the Mondeo RWD, why didn't they? they'd be more exciting cars if they were.

Just because a car is RWD doesn't automatically make it "so much fun" to drive, lol.

My EL Falcon is RWD and it handles like the Costa Concordia, but a nice comfortable boat with awesome A/C.

FWD is just more efficient, smaller package and handles better in crap conditions, done a lot of dirt road driving in my EL and it doesn't take much to catch you out, especially on off camber corners.

Granted the EL is old but it is RWD.

**DJM83** · 12-10-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

The sad thing about this is our RWD options keep getting smaller and they're the more enjoyable cars to drive. If we lose the falcon and commodore what rwd options are left?. Not that many good options that provide the comfit, performance,space and value.

And another thing, large cars do sell just look around there's plenty of options out there if you want a large car. Ford wouldn't have built the Taurus if they didn't.

Why are manufacturers throwing these FWD econoboxes down our throughts? I'm certain they could've built the Taurus and the Mondeo RWD, why didn't they? they'd be more exciting cars if they were.

Clearly never driven a sorted fwd car. The old fwd vs rwd debate gets old, I guess you have a new RWD falcon then?

zilo · 12-10-2013, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

The sad thing about this is our RWD options keep getting smaller and they're the more enjoyable cars to drive. If we lose the falcon and commodore what rwd options are left?. Not that many good options that provide the comfit, performance,space and value.

FWD ain't what it used to be matey.

I've got one that would scare you with it's 720Nm of torque at the wheels.

Wretched · 12-10-2013, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Clearly never driven a sorted fwd car. The old fwd vs rwd debate gets old, I guess you have a new RWD falcon then?

especially considering in last years PCOTY the Megane RS265 beat the GT R spec around the circuit, was only .1 of a second behind the 300C SRT too.

The Focus ST was only 2.2seconds behind the GT.

NX74205 · 13-10-2013, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borough

I never said that the Kia Optima is any better than the Mondeo, to me they are pretty much the same car. Both uninspiring 4cyl FWD cars, like at Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, i40, etc. Once the Falcon is gone so is Ford's point of difference that would get me into the showroom.

They are hardly the same car. The Mondeo is superior. The Mondeo is also a Ford. That's the difference.

KAM120 · 13-10-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because a car is RWD doesn't automatically make it "so much fun" to drive, lol.
.

I didn't say automaticaly, i ment that the characteristics of a RWD platform are more fun you know over-steer rather than under-steer etc, but i guess it's more of an opinion by the responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Clearly never driven a sorted fwd car. The old fwd vs rwd debate gets old, I guess you have a new RWD falcon then?

I have a new and an old falcon, i guess by sorted you mean something like a euro hot hatch? sorry but even with the brand new one's they still can't fix that horrible torque steer and they don't fit the catagory of vehicle i was talking about. Can you show me a mid to large size car that's FWD and exciting to drive cause i haven't seen one.

Nikked · 13-10-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

I didn't say automaticaly, i ment that the characteristics of a RWD platform are more fun you know over-steer rather than under-steer etc, but i guess it's more of an opinion by the responses.

Ha!

FWD don't over steer?

hahaha!

**DJM83** · 13-10-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

I didn't say automaticaly, i ment that the characteristics of a RWD platform are more fun you know over-steer rather than under-steer etc, but i guess it's more of an opinion by the responses.

I have a new and an old falcon, i guess by sorted you mean something like a euro hot hatch? sorry but even with the brand new one's they still can't fix that horrible torque steer and they don't fit the catagory of vehicle i was talking about. Can you show me a mid to large size car that's FWD and exciting to drive cause i haven't seen one.

Yeah i understand they arent for you, thats kool, but dont write em off.
I know a FWD car can oversteer, ive had it in my ST and old XR5T

Brazen · 13-10-2013, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Yeah i understand they arent for you, thats kool, but dont write em off.
I know a FWD car can oversteer, ive had it in my ST and old XR5T

All else being equal, if you could choose that the Focus ST could be RWD or FWD which one would you pick?

Bill M · 13-10-2013, 10:52 AM

On a Ford drive day in 2003 at Sandown I drove the BA series XR8 XR6 GTs etc then I drove the Focus ST170. The ST170 felt like it was on rails while the Falcons felt soggy in comparison.It was 10 years ago I know but it certainly opened my eyes to what excellent suspension & drive-line engineers can achieve. Love my leaf sprung XR ute but am not blind to the obvious.
cheers
Bill.

XR Martin · 13-10-2013, 12:10 PM

Difference is the suspension in Falcons are designed for all of Australia's road conditions., and have always been more on the comfort side of things.

A Focus ST would probably beat just about every Falcon around a track, but a Falcon would be more comfortable on an extended trip on country roads. What do most Falcon owners do?

KAM120 · 13-10-2013, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Ha!
FWD don't over steer?

Yeah i know you can make them oversteer but you have to force them to do so, it's not a natural characteristic of a fwd

zilo · 13-10-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAM120

I have a new and an old falcon, i guess by sorted you mean something like a euro hot hatch? sorry but even with the brand new one's they still can't fix that horrible torque steer and they don't fit the catagory of vehicle i was talking about. Can you show me a mid to large size car that's FWD and exciting to drive cause i haven't seen one.

What do you need in a car to make it exciting?

XR Martin · 13-10-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

What do you need in a car to make it exciting?

That V8 sound...

KAM120 · 13-10-2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

What do you need in a car to make it exciting?

That's a debatable question as everyone will have a different opinion on that, but what i'd like to see is more rwd options as u can see it's my preference but there are fewer and fewer choices becoming available. Take a Holden Malibu for example why not have made it RWD with a small capacity v8, say a 3 ltr, that's something i'd like to see. It's not a bad looking unit but it's an uninspiring car the way it is. I hope that helps you see where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to say all FWD's are crap(they have there place), just they are becoming the only option. As you might know the only small car available in RWD is a expensive BMW1series there is no other option in the small car market and the large cars seem to be going that way as well.

Nikked · 13-10-2013, 07:01 PM

Does a Family car need to be exciting? Something that gets banged up, scratched and has milk and food spilt over the rear seat?

A Falcon XT isn't exciting...

flooded one · 13-10-2013, 07:14 PM

I dunno, I'd have more fun driving a base model falcon too the shops then a Nissan patrol