How does the welfare system work

[NAK302]

well, all i know is welfare takes 48% of my income tax.

you're welcome...

[drz250]

According to the the pie chart titled “Total Social Security and Welfare expenditure” in the 2014-15 Budget, the vast majority of expenditure on social security and welfare, excluding tax expenditures, goes to support seniors (29%), family tax benefits (13%), people with disability (12%), carers (5%), veterans (5%), parents income support (4%), and child care assistance (4%) and “other welfare expenditure” (21%). Only 7% of the “welfare bill” goes to support the unemployed and sick.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by drz250

According to the the pie chart titled “Total Social Security and Welfare expenditure” in the 2014-15 Budget, the vast majority of expenditure on social security and welfare, excluding tax expenditures, goes to support seniors (29%), family tax benefits (13%), people with disability (12%), carers (5%), veterans (5%), parents income support (4%), and child care assistance (4%) and “other welfare expenditure” (21%). Only 7% of the “welfare bill” goes to support the unemployed and sick.

Careful with your facts, it ruins peoples opinions.

[car10002]

If the doles lower than age or dsp how are they meant to afford clothes for job interviews and go to doctor or dentist

[car10002]

And if dole was as high as disabled people wouldn't try go on it just to live

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by car10002

If the doles lower than age or dsp how are they meant to afford clothes for job interviews and go to doctor or dentist

Carl10002 you ask questions that go to fundamental core values of our society.

It reminds me of a friend who had a parent injured, and I was trying to explain the basis of compensation under law for pain and suffering award. And I said, as an example, that a disc fusion in the back is worth X dollars.

He responded, why does society put a dollar value on it, there is no amount of money that can compensate.

What he said was true, but our society has limited resources and has to allocate as best it can for the whole-and sometimes it may appear imperfect and unfair.

I think that for people who genuinely are on the dole it would be very hard, desperate in fact.

There are also people who abuse the system, dole, disability benefits, and make it worse for the people who are in genuine need of assistance who cannot find work.

But the flip side is, there will be people who abuse the super system, to the detriment of society.

Difficult questions, and everyone has their own moral social compass on the issue.

For me, I had 4 years free uni education with Austudy thanks to Labour and Whitlam, was supported on dole for a period of 3 months when I moved between Darwin and NSW, and do not resent paying tax cause I am part of this society which has helped and given me everything.

Also, I have 2 kids, and do not think it fair that the govt increase their debt and reduce their living standards in the future to increase the present living standards unreasonably of various groups in our society now.

Likewise, I do not think that it is ethical for oldies who have ferreted away super to blow it all living it up, and then revert to the pension, because that is unfair to the young.

My earlier post (a bit acidic due to a very difficult 2 weeks at work), I was trying to point out as well that the system is open to abuse by all, those on benefits, and those in the workforce as well.

In terms of balance, it seems to me that a lot more heavy lifting is being put on the next generation and young, and there will be resentment in the future. Probably the resentment will increase, because the oldies form an increasingly powerful vote block.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by NAK302

well, all i know is welfare takes 48% of my income tax.

you're welcome...

And you know how to fix that? Negative gear! Problem solved! They are not getting my hard earned dollar's!!

[CyberWasp]

What happens if everyone goes on welfare?

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by b0son

Investors pay for the house. With no investors providing housing, taxpayers will have to pay.

BUT, I can see your point. The tax perks far outweigh the tax burden, and the social cost of property speculation costs us far more in the long term.

I guess I'm biased though, having grown up in areas with a large proportion of public housing. Its treated like crap, with no real consequence to the deadbeat tenant. If the system had some real teeth, it might be more worthwhile. Perhaps have public housing over a wide range of areas, from out in the sticks to metro, and move the tenants from more/less desirable areas as punishment/reward for keeping the house in good repair, gaining and keeping employment. The stick doent seem to work, maybe we need a carrot...

With more & more private investment in housing (or should that be less & less proportional govt investment in public housing) there'll eventually be no more public housing. There'll still be poor people in the future, and they'll all be tenants in houses owned by private investors. The cheapest places to live will be "looked after" no differently than the cheapest in public housing now.

By getting private investors to stump up the initial cash for new housing, the government saves billions in the short term. But, the same private investors then withhold tax from the govt year after year by claiming against the properties, and the govt misses out on the bulk of increase in property price (CGT aside). So today's govt/society saves billions, at the cost of the next generations govt/society that loses trillions.

Originally Posted by asagaai

<snip>

asagaai, you'd mentioned that it sucks when you have to replace a leaking washing machine or other busted appliance. It must suck having to dip in to your mortgage (at what, 4%?) to get it repaired or replaced. I've had to do that any yes it does suck. There's no sarcasm there.

But how about some perspective:

Meanwhile the person at the bottom of the rung, who also gets stuck with a busted washing machine, can't dip in to their mortgage. Their options are:

1) Nimble it, & move on<tm> with loanshark repayment rates
2) Wash their clothes at the laundromat ($$$ per wash, plus time to travel to/from laundromat if they have a car, plus fuel costs)
3) Don't wash their clothes.

Some other points to your questions posted:

* Good on you for completing your tertiary education and for holding a job for 27 years. Some people can only dream of 27 years of ongoing employment, not to mention tertiary qualifications.

* Lower standard of living compared to someone on an old age pension? So you'll be lowering your standards from Heinz beans to No Name beans?

* I'd like to see a range of people in the bottom tax brackets (or who are on centrelink and always have been) who have managed three overseas holidays in their lifetime.

* You receive no govt assistance because you earn above the threshold. The threshold's there for a reason.

* You must be proud that your daughter is committing to completing her degree for a noble profession.

I see in your sig that aside from not only owning 4 cars, the 4th is a brand new FG-X XR8. Can I have everyone here on Fordforums who receives centrelink payments in lieu of income please put your hand up if you've bought your FG-X XR8 courtesy of centrelink?

[OzriderXR8]

I'm guessing if my income stopped and I had to go on the dole, it would not cover my costs. I'm talking gas, electricity, rates, insurance, basic car costs, my minimal mortgage payments, food, school costs and any other basic incidentals.

I'm not talking about Foxtel, multiple mobile phones, 2nd car, motorbike etc. etc....

Have you ever actually sat down and worked out what you minimum costs are per month?

A while back there was a newspaper story of 5 guys living in a house in Qld at the beach, all on the dole but smart enough to pool their money and live comfortably.

Newstart Allowance

Your maximum fortnightly payment is:
single, no children $527.60
single, with a dependent child or children $570.80
single, aged 60 or over, after 9 continuous months on payment $570.80
partnered $476.40 (each)

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What happens if everyone goes on welfare?

Greece !!!

[Adamz Ghia]

Our 3 year election cycles don't help. There is really only 18 months to govern effectively as they don't want to annoy anyone the next 18 months before an election.

If the term were increased to 4 or 5 years issues like our welfare system might have a chance at reform.

[OzriderXR8]

There are a lot of people for whatever reasons in life are at the bottom end of the financial ladder and desperately need support.

There are also a huge number who milk the system and take every penny they can get.

My daughter goes to school with a girl that the entire family from the grandmother, mother and through to the older kids and aunties and uncles are all on the dole and haven't worked in years.

Then there are also those who think the world owes them and they are entitled to be financed by everyone else.

I shared a house with a couple of them many years ago, both useless ****** that would work for a month and chuck a job in because it was too hard or they didn't like the boss, straight back on the dole. Both whined about how hard done by they were and how it was always someone else's fault that they had no money.

I hated my job back then, hard work in all weather and my boss was an ******* but I still turned up everyday cause I needed the money.

[drz250]

Originally Posted by OzriderXR8

I shared a house with a couple of them many years ago, both useless ****** that would work for a month and chuck a job in because it was too hard or they didn't like the boss, straight back on the dole. Both whined about how hard done by they were and how it was always someone else's fault that they had no money.

I hated my job back then, hard work in all weather and my boss was an ******* but I still turned up everyday cause I needed the money.

I agree with your comments but I thought people had to wait six weeks to go on the dole if they quit but only two weeks if they were fired? I don't know, just going off what ex-gf told me when her housemates did the same thing (worked for short-term then quit).

[OzriderXR8]

Originally Posted by drz250

I agree with your comments but I thought people had to wait six weeks to go on the dole if they quit but only two weeks if they were fired? I don't know, just going off what ex-gf told me when her housemates did the same thing (worked for short-term then quit).

Pretty much, most of the time they were fired for not turning up etc.

[drz250]

Originally Posted by OzriderXR8

Pretty much, most of the time they were fired for not turning up etc.

Well why would they want to attend the workplace? That's the worst aspect of employment.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Another question:

why do we need to bring people in from overseas to fill jobs that an unemployed Australian can do (but choose not to)

That's an easy one.

Look at the type of workers we bring in.

Then, go to many places of low level / status employment and see the type of workers there.

Go to any fast food place and see who works there - especially Friday and Saturday nights. I just came back from Costco. Look at the type of worker there.

No doubt they are Aussie, but not the blonde haired blue eyed bronzed chesty bonds type many associate an Aussie to be.

I had 3 shizer kicker jobs in my teens and during uni. 1 in a discount store, one major supermarket and one major department store.

I can think of only 3-5 typical Aussie workers, the rest (including myself) were first generation migrants or their kids from Asia, Europe or the Middle East.

We didn't steal jobs from anyone, we just did the work at non desirable times in non desirable conditions for non desirable pay because others simply couldn't be bothered.

And we were always thankful and asked for more!

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by hackney

And you know how to fix that? Negative gear! Problem solved! They are not getting my hard earned dollar's!!

Bull **** utter bull ****, I think negative gearing should be limited but killing it would screw it for renters (the land load would actually need a return on their investment if they got rid of it, everyone seems to forget this)

The communist party now talks of limiting it to new homes, the only people that helps is the Salim Marhaga types flogging their cookie cutter boxes and again once the land load sells it it's useless as the land lord would need to to get a return.

The talk that it would make housing more affordable is all so bull **** because after the correction it would go back to the way it is.

What we need is for people to stop putting their freaken hand out for everything and the current generation not to expect it handed to them.

[The Yeti]

Oh I forgot to mention

I don't currently have any property that's negatively geared

Some of us dumb ****ers work 2 jobs and pay 48c on both jobs in tax

We don't get FTB A or B we didn't get first home buyers grants or stamp duty relief, we didn't get baby bonuses or any of that stuff, we just pay for the struggle street lot to get their new iPhone and to keep a roof over their head because they couldn't be arsed working one Job

[LTD Ute]

Anyone here thinks they can live independently on Newstart or
Youth allowance at $265 a week?

I've been working in the Welfare/Homeless sector for over 30 years
and you would be ashamed of the plight your fellow Australians endure.

We have families sleeping in cars and can only eat cold baked beans
and canned soups because they have no means of heating their food.

There are thirty people queuing outside our office from 7.30 before
we open our doors at 9.00 for emergency housing assistance and
about a third get turned away because we have no more money
and appointments.

This is our Australia today and most are oblivious to it.

I'm obliged to keep my mouth shut in my contract, but, I work for you.

[LTD Ute]

And yes, we can tell who are the minority Proffesional Welfare Recipients
and the overwhelmingly majority needy.

We do prioritise the little we have to help.

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Poor diddums can only afford one Hungry Jacks meal a day. She needs to visit this new places called 'Coles' according to them you can feed a family of 4 a decent meal for under $10.
That's $2.50 a head. If you plan ahead you could theoretically give yourself 3 meals for less cost than a Hungry Jacks meal.

But if she is eating Hungry Jacks everyday in the near future money will be the least of her problems.

You assumed she has a roof over her head, electricity/gas to cook and heat water with, appliances, and a whole lot more. Never ever assume anything.............

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

So tell me if I have this right. If I send you my details, you can aim me at some employment?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

What happens if everyone goes on welfare?

i would get fatter, smoke bongs, fill my trolley full of chips, pepsi max and eat hungry jacks

*got fat cos of ma thyroids

[car10002]

How come welfare people can't afford car repairs straight away when they break down you hear of people not having a car for a couple months,

You would've thought a good cars a essential these days to get around in

[OzriderXR8]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

I was retrenched a few years ago and it took me 10 months to find a job...............I applied for everything and I have a great work history with a broad experience across multiple industries, I couldn't even get a job driving a truck.

And I didn't get welfare.

[lgpking22]

ok cool weve fixed the 7 percent of welfare for job seeks fantastic now the gov can afford more stuff now can people move on and talk about the other 93 percent or does picking on old seniors and disabled people not as fun and as easy to be judgemental about

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by drz250

According to the the pie chart titled “Total Social Security and Welfare expenditure” in the 2014-15 Budget, the vast majority of expenditure on social security and welfare, excluding tax expenditures, goes to support seniors (29%), family tax benefits (13%), people with disability (12%), carers (5%), veterans (5%), parents income support (4%), and child care assistance (4%) and “other welfare expenditure” (21%). Only 7% of the “welfare bill” goes to support the unemployed and sick.

The Australian bureau of statistics (abs.gov.au) has interesting statistics also
like in 1994 the % of average working age people in aus was 66.6%
in 2014 the % of average working age people in aus was 66.5%
(Average age being between15yo to 64yo)
The % of people over 65 only increased 2.9% from 1994 to 2014
So maybe its not the retirees or welfare recipient's putting a strain on the system. .........
Very few people are actually working (or considered to be working) at 15 !
Most of us are studying, some well into their 20's, hopefully this will only be short term (a decade) and as a country we will be better educated and better able to support the pensioner (rather than penalize their hard work).

Bring back working smarter, not harder

[car10002]

You hear of people wanting something for nothing and stuff so wondered how it all worked and talking about people that can't work or have worked years and can't anymore or are too old

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by LTD Ute

Anyone here thinks they can live independently on Newstart or
Youth allowance at $265 a week?

I've been working in the Welfare/Homeless sector for over 30 years
and you would be ashamed of the plight your fellow Australians endure.

We have families sleeping in cars and can only eat cold baked beans
and canned soups because they have no means of heating their food.

There are thirty people queuing outside our office from 7.30 before
we open our doors at 9.00 for emergency housing assistance and
about a third get turned away because we have no more money
and appointments.

This is our Australia today and most are oblivious to it.

I'm obliged to keep my mouth shut in my contract, but, I work for you.

I leave my farm gate open at night now.
It's surprising the number of people that have pulled in for the night the last couple of years.

Always in vans and usually kids involved.
It is distressing to see and it makes me so angry when I hear people putting them down, claiming they are paying to support them but then they're very happy to collect family tax benefit abc which is far more money than welfare recipients will see in a lifetime.

Another rort is workcover. Insurance companies appear to be able to tip injured workers onto the dole without fear.
Australia is run by lobbyists not elected politicians