Joey Johns a long-time drug user

[FlipXW]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

It's not your problem at he moment and I hope it never is, but what if someone your kids grew up to idolise gave your kids the impression that taking recreational drugs is ok, PROVIDED you do it so you don't get caught? and then said, hey if you don't want to get caught, just take it them at this time and it will be out of your system by the time comes to be tested. It would certainly be YOUR problem, more importantly your kid's problem then wouldn't it?

In case you haven't realised, public figures have more of a responsibilty to be aware that young impressionable eyes are watching. They have a responsibility to their younger fans who watch their every move.



No I am not kidding. It does make him less of a player because other players have achieved greatness without taking drugs, and gone on to inspire thousands of kids into sport. It is your type of opinion that makes drug usage acceptable. You are the one that has to be kidding.

It is obvious you are a huge fan, but take the passion out of it. Your are looking through rose coloured glasses. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but in my mind, if this is your true viewpoint, and you can really see no problem with his actions, it would seem your 2c has been spent unwisely.

Yea fair case mate. And of course i dont think drug use is acceptable, all im saying is he was one of the best ever footballers and that shouldnt be taken away from him because of something he does off the field in his own time, even if it is rediculously stupid.

[GK351]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

It's not your problem at he moment and I hope it never is, but what if someone your kids grew up to idolise gave your kids the impression that taking recreational drugs is ok, PROVIDED you do it so you don't get caught? and then said, hey if you don't want to get caught, just take it them at this time and it will be out of your system by the time comes to be tested. It would certainly be YOUR problem, more importantly your kid's problem then wouldn't it?

In case you haven't realised, public figures have more of a responsibilty to be aware that young impressionable eyes are watching. They have a responsibility to their younger fans who watch their every move.

Yes when i was in my teens idolising diego maradonna at his best i wanted to be like him so what did i do? Of course i followed his footsteps and turned my nose into a human electrolux just to play like him. it:

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by Tony xa

I also see mo problem with recreational use of drugs .Remember people all are different and what works for some donesn't always work for others.

If you see no problem with recreational drug use, that's your opinion and your entitled to it. However I don't believe that if conventional medical solutions do not work for you, you head off to the local dealer and grab yourself some exctasy. That is not the next logical step. He knew right from wrong. He chose wrong, and now has to put up with the fall out.

To me, your arguement could be used by illegal street racers as well, if they were asked why they don't race at a proper venue. "Doesn't work for me mate, so I choose to race illegally" It's the same thing isn't it? Street racers risk the lives of innocent people. Commending a high profile sporting star who is self-confessed drug user for coming clean only after being caught also sends message as dangerous as illegal street racing. It gives the impression and perception that it is ok to do. And it is not.

Originally Posted by GK5766

Yes when i was in my teens idolising diego maradonna at his best i wanted to be like him so what did i do? Of course i followed his footsteps and turned my nose into a human electrolux just to play like him. it:

hmmm sadly sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and if the best argument you have is that, you should head back to the drawing board and come back with something a little more substantial, that I can at least think is a fair comment like others have done.

Why do you think that FIFA awarded Pele with the title of Best Player for the first half of the century despite the 2001 internet poll about the greatest player was awarded to Maradona? Did it have something to do with public perception? Maybe the opinion that Maradona was the face of Football, and FIFA found this to be unacceptable and did not want that as he had failed several doping tests, for both performance enhancing drugs and cocaine? in the early '90s Was it because they did not want a known drug user and drug addict being recognised as the greatest ever? Not sure will have to research that. What light can you shed on this?

[5LMonty]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

If he wasn't arrested, we would all still be saying how much of a living legend he is. You want a hero? you want to applaude someone's strength? Go down to the local AA meeting, and shake the hand of someone who was strong anough to admit they had a problem, and sought help.

Fair enough he suffers depression. So what! so do hundreds of thousands of other people, and not all of them turn to these types of drugs. If you want help, real help, there are proven medical solutions available to anyone have the guts to admit they have a problem.

The ARL promotes a ZERO TOLERENCE? PROVE IT. He is a absolute disgrace. He should be stripped of all his awards, Man of the Match's everything that he has ever won for being a player. He deserves none of it.

The ARL should sack anyone in their ranks who publically supports this idiot.

Andrew Johns should be completely shamed in my opinion.

Pull ya head in mate!

The Newcastle Knights team doctor has admitted to treating Joey for his drug problems for most of his career. So it's not as though he was doing drugs and denying he even had a problem. It was the Clubs heirachy/friends/family & teammates that didnt want to make it public because he was playing the best football the Australian public has ever seen!

I'd love to see everyone fall off their high horses if all the famous sportsmen/women in the world had their 'darl secrets' made public! Why do you think the Bronco's do 'in-house' testing?? Open your eyes!!!!

Andrew Johns was and still is the best Rugby League Player many ppl have ever had the priviledge of watching. Recreational drugs didnt make him a better player - raw talent created the magician!

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

In case you haven't realised, public figures have more of a responsibilty to be aware that young impressionable eyes are watching. They have a responsibility to their younger fans who watch their every move.

Oh rubbish! The whole sportsman is a role model irks me no end.

He's a public figure because he played Rugby League! I think that bares repeating. He played a *game* called Rugby League. A largely brutal game where 2 sides run full speed into each other, often with little concern for their own safety.

Young and impressionable eyes should be guided by their parents. To expect that anyone who has any sort of public focus should live the life of eternal virtue all because of young impressionable eyes is ridiculous, let alone a sportsman.

If I had a son interested in Rugby League then I would use Joey as an example of how to play good footy, that's it! He should me marvelled at for his skill at his chosen sport and absolutely nothing more.

[Bosman]

League players are all bum sniffers anyway! Thought he might have been on ,'Crack'! HeHe : :

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by Bosman

League players are all bum sniffers anyway! Thought he might have been on ,'Crack'! HeHe : :

Hanging around Hopoate too much?

Apparently his parents and Matt were convicted of ecstasy smuggling in the 80's, surprised the press havent belted that one yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johns

[herbs]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Oh rubbish! The whole sportsman is a role model irks me no end.

He's a public figure because he played Rugby League! I think that bares repeating. He played a *game* called Rugby League. A largely brutal game where 2 sides run full speed into each other, often with little concern for their own safety.

Young and impressionable eyes should be guided by their parents. To expect that anyone who has any sort of public focus should live the life of eternal virtue all because of young impressionable eyes is ridiculous, let alone a sportsman.

If I had a son interested in Rugby League then I would use Joey as an example of how to play good footy, that's it! He should me marvelled at for his skill at his chosen sport and absolutely nothing more.

In Utopia, kids would look at their parents, rellies and teachers only as role models, but this isn't Utopia, it's reality. Kids DO look up at their sporting heroes as role models and if someone can kick in sport and it turns out that they're on every drug imaginable, a percentage ofyoung people will think "hey, if he can, why not me?" That's the reality.

[kremmen]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Hanging around Hopoate too much?

Apparently his parents and Matt were convicted of ecstasy smuggling in the 80's, surprised the press havent belted that one yet? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johns

Wikipedia isnt fact. So I wouldn't believe what is written there.

[kremmen]

Originally Posted by nugget378

I dont really care if he takes drugs or not.
And I dont know what any other code has to do with it,this thread is not about that.
The clubs and NRL go on about this drug testing and this zero tolerence shiit bla bla,and even feed some unknown or unliked player to the sharks from time to time to show how tight they run the ship.
Then something like this comes up,and shows that if you are one of the top stars you wont get caught or if you do it will be kept real dark.
I bet that if he wasnt caught during his career it was because of a nod and a wink at when he'd be tested.
Its the hypocrisy of it all that gets me,not weather they take drugs or not,hell Im no angel,and did more than my fair share in the past.

NRL has zero tolerance to Performance enhancing drugs which are easier to test for as it lingers in the system, So most cycles are done in the off season to increase/decrease bulk. Very rare do players get caught for recreational because most testing is done game day, and u dont have a big one before you play. Andrew Walker did and got done for Coke - 2 years.

Players are tested for recreational drugs in the most part from their clubs. Each club used to have their own policies on testing, some were zero tolerance/some had a warning system. Now they all have a adopted a 2 strikes policy. Eradicating and tarnishing someones name for 1 mistake is a bit harsh. So if you get caught, you have to undergo rehab. But if you get done a second time - you are out!

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by 5LMonty

Pull ya head in mate!

The Newcastle Knights team doctor has admitted to treating Joey for his drug problems for most of his career. So it's not as though he was doing drugs and denying he even had a problem. It was the Clubs heirachy/friends/family & teammates that didnt want to make it public because he was playing the best football the Australian public has ever seen!

I'd love to see everyone fall off their high horses if all the famous sportsmen/women in the world had their 'darl secrets' made public! Why do you think the Bronco's do 'in-house' testing?? Open your eyes!!!!

Andrew Johns was and still is the best Rugby League Player many ppl have ever had the priviledge of watching. Recreational drugs didnt make him a better player - raw talent created the magician!

look who's talking.

The teams do in-house testing but the NRL are supposed to test the players for all manner of drugs both recreational and performance enhancing. All clubs do inhouse testing, including the knights. Roy masters has come out saying that he had confronted both Johns and his manager, but the threat legal action had kept everyone's month shut. How bout you open your eyes sunshine! Your saying he never denied it? So WHY then did he take it at certain times, when he knew he could get around being caught? You don;t think that is denial?

The CEO of the Knights has already said that any person on staff at Newcastle who knew about John's substance abuse will be sacked. So obviously the Knight's CEO has a zero tolerance as well, As he should do.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Oh rubbish! The whole sportsman is a role model irks me no end.

He's a public figure because he played Rugby League! I think that bares repeating. He played a *game* called Rugby League. A largely brutal game where 2 sides run full speed into each other, often with little concern for their own safety.

Young and impressionable eyes should be guided by their parents. To expect that anyone who has any sort of public focus should live the life of eternal virtue all because of young impressionable eyes is ridiculous, let alone a sportsman.

If I had a son interested in Rugby League then I would use Joey as an example of how to play good footy, that's it! He should me marvelled at for his skill at his chosen sport and absolutely nothing more.

Ignorance is bliss obviously. So your saying in this country where sporting achievements and failures can headline the news reports over car accidents, house fires etc, that young people aren;t going to take notice of a drug taking sportsperson? It is for this reason that any sportsperson in this country who is busted for any type of drug use is completely shamed and stripped of any titles etc. Wendall Sailor, Chris Walker, Martin Vinnicombe are just three that come to mind who have paid the price for their drug or alcohol abuse.

Role models take all forms not just the sporting arena, however these are the ones with the most airtime. Would you agree that others like Ian Thrope and Grant Hackett have inspired kids into swimming? What about sports where the nature of the sport encourages people to risk them selves? like motor racing. Are you trying to suggest that no one has ever come out of Willowbank or WSID after a night at the drags, or Eastern creek after a V8 Supercar and sped on the way home?? Listen to what you are saying? Are you that obvious to reality?

[AC/DC]

He was a legend.

He is now a loser.

I cant believe people who say " they feel sorry" and "it was the pressure" and " he done well for admitting it"

The NRL needs to kick any player out for ever who gets busted with drugs.

Look at Mitchell Sargent. THe cowboys booted the coke sniffer out, and he resigned with the sharks..... so what the penalty for being a druggo.

Johns, , your a LOSER.

AC/DC

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Ignorance is bliss obviously. So your saying in this country where sporting achievements and failures can headline the news reports over car accidents, house fires etc, that young people aren;t going to take notice of a drug taking sportsperson? It is for this reason that any sportsperson in this country who is busted for any type of drug use is completely shamed and stripped of any titles etc. Wendall Sailor, Chris Walker, Martin Vinnicombe are just three that come to mind who have paid the price for their drug or alcohol abuse.

Of course they're going to notice, so what if they do? Joey has been meticulously shamed by every media outlet in the country and this will inspire kids to go out and emulate that?

A sportsman is a role model if a child is brought up to believe they're more than a someone who's particularly good at their chosen sport. That's the parents responsibility to instill that into the child. I played a shedload of sport when I was growing up and actually spent time with a number of those I idolised on the field but I never saw them as role models and that's because they were the beliefs that my family instilled in me.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Role models take all forms not just the sporting arena, however these are the ones with the most airtime. Would you agree that others like Ian Thrope and Grant Hackett have inspired kids into swimming? What about sports where the nature of the sport encourages people to risk them selves? like motor racing. Are you trying to suggest that no one has ever come out of Willowbank or WSID after a night at the drags, or Eastern creek after a V8 Supercar and sped on the way home?? Listen to what you are saying? Are you that obvious to reality?

Listen to what I'm saying? You're arguing my case for me! You admire their skill on the field/track/whatever and that's where it stops, that's what I originally stated. I'm sure that Thorpey has inspired many young kids to jump in the pool and I applaud that, but that's exactly where it ends. Emulate your stars in your sport and not off it (even though Thorpey appears to be a champion in and out of the pool).

Do you think it would be wise to allow your children to see a professional rugby league player as a role model? An exceptionally fit athlete who's paid a shedload of cash, given oodles of free time with no working commitments in a culture full of drinking (and apparently drugs), a kindred with 20 other blokes he sees as brothers going to battle with every week and being chased by/chasing women? That's certainly not what I'd want my son idolising.

[protd]

Ian Roberts is gay, is every kid that idolized him now going to be gay?? i don't think so, if kids think because johns took drugs and it's cool, i blame the media just as much as the man himself they are the ones that PUMP this crap up if i got busted for drugs next to no one would know, the only reason the media pump it up is because tossers thrive on it.. I'm bored with the whole thing, the man can play football, he's a great player nothing changes that, He got caught with drugs he's a idiot, but at the end of the day does it really need to be flogged in every paper and TV channel for the next 6 months

[Envi XR8]

From your original post;

Originally Posted by Rodp

Young and impressionable eyes should be guided by their parents. To expect that anyone who has any sort of public focus should live the life of eternal virtue all because of young impressionable eyes is ridiculous, let alone a sportsman.

you made the the point that kids should be inspired and guided by, and look up to their parents. My argument is that they DON'T look up to their parents ONLY. Which you now seem to accept;

Originally Posted by Rodp

Of course they're going to notice, so what if they do?

So what if they do? You then say it's ok PROVIDED they only notice the onfield successes and don't emulate the off field antics. Then you make this point;

Originally Posted by Rodp

I'm sure that Thorpey has inspired many young kids to jump in the pool and I applaud that, but that's exactly where it ends. Emulate your stars in your sport and not off it (even though Thorpey appears to be a champion in and out of the pool).

So your now saying you applaude the influence or inspiration that some sportspeople can have on the young to get them into sport? First you say it's ridiculous for kids to look up to sports people full stop. Then make a concession and say "of course they are going to notice them" , but please only emulate the success of the sporting field. Then applaude a particular individual who currently appears (as Johns once was) to be a champion both on an off the field. Where exactly do you stand on this. I've lost your viewpoint in all the changes.

Kids DO look up to sportspeople, their achievements and want the same for themselves. That is why I said this guy needs to be completely shamed, so that kids can see that taking drugs is for losers despite sporting success. Some areas of the media are making Johns into some sort of twisted hero, and that is a terrible mistake.

My point is until he was arrested Johns was a Champion in most people's eyes on and off the field. Now that the truth has come out, he should no longer be seen in the same light. There should be no concessions given to him. The fact that you applaude Ian Thorpe, but not Andrew Johns, is based on the public image you have of the individual, what they are perceived to be like. Considering that Ian Thorpe appears to be a good apple, would you feel threatened if your kids said to you that they wanted to like him?

Originally Posted by Rodp

Do you think it would be wise to allow your children to see a professional rugby league player as a role model? An exceptionally fit athlete who's paid a shedload of cash, given oodles of free time with no working commitments in a culture full of drinking (and apparently drugs), a kindred with 20 other blokes he sees as brothers going to battle with every week and being chased by/chasing women? That's certainly not what I'd want my son idolising.

No I do not think it is wise. Do I believe that is actually a realty that kids do see them as role models. Absolutely. You may not like your kids growing up to idolise the off-field antics of these sportpeople, but that IS the realty of it. Public figures generally seen to be successful are promoted by outside influences, like coaches, teachers, other kids, TV shows, etc, all things out of your total control, combined with the kids own mind. I'm sure that most parents try to instill in their kids the best principles, but these are easily changed by influences unseen or out of your control.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by protd

Ian Roberts is gay, is every kid that idolized him now going to be gay??

Bravo! Good point. Would you agree that high profile people who are gay and have made that fact about themselves public knowledge have made it easier and more acceptable to the general public to accept others who are gay? I would think so. Thanks for making that point.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

So your now saying you applaude the influence or inspiration that some sportspeople can have on the young to get them into sport? First you say it's ridiculous for kids to look up to sports people full stop.

I did?

This is what I said.

"If I had a son interested in Rugby League then I would use Joey as an example of how to play good footy, that's it! He should be marvelled at for his skill at his chosen sport and absolutely nothing more"

If Thorpe inspired kids to jump in the pool it's because of his achievements in the pool, not out of it.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Then make a concession and say "of course they are going to notice them" , but please only emulate the success of the sporting field. Then applaude a particular individual who currently appears (as Johns once was) to be a champion both on an off the field. Where exactly do you stand on this. I've lost your viewpoint in all the changes.

I didn't change a thing. Thorpe does appear to be a legend in and out of the pool yet I wouldn't want my child seeing him as a role model. I don't want any child of mine seeing a sportsman as anything other than a sportsman! I don't know how I could make that any clearer.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

My point is until he was arrested Johns was a Champion in most people's eyes on and off the field. Now that the truth has come out, he should no longer be seen in the same light. There should be no concessions given to him. The fact that you applaude Ian Thorpe, but not Andrew Johns, is based on the public image you have of the individual, what they are perceived to be like. Considering that Ian Thorpe appears to be a good apple, would you feel threatened if your kids said to you that they wanted to like him?

Absolutely, I would be. He's a guy that can swim very well. At the end of the day, what he does in the pool is nothing more than entertainment to those that enjoy swimming.

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

No I do not think it is wise. Do I believe that is actually a realty that kids do see them as role models. Absolutely. You may not like your kids growing up to idolise the off-field antics of these sportpeople, but that IS the realty of it. Public figures generally seen to be successful are promoted by outside influences, like coaches, teachers, other kids, TV shows, etc, all things out of your total control, combined with the kids own mind. I'm sure that most parents try to instill in their kids the best principles, but these are easily changed by influences unseen or out of your control.

It appears to be your reality of it, it's certainly not mine. I've never looked up to any of my sporting heroes as role models and all I would attempt to emulate was their performance on the field. That was instilled in me from a very early age when I began to play sport and it would be the same values I would vehemently attempt to instill in my children if they chose to pursue a sport.

At the end of the day, those that participate in sports at an elite level are still only human who can (and will) make the same mistakes we non-elite sportsmen make, that's a guarantee.

[kremmen]

Originally Posted by protd

Ian Roberts is gay, is every kid that idolized him now going to be gay??

I don't think you wake up one morning and decide to be a Sneaky Butcher... :

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by Rodp

It appears to be your reality of it, it's certainly not mine. I've never looked up to any of my sporting heroes as role models and all I would attempt to emulate was their performance on the field. That was instilled in me from a very early age when I began to play sport and it would be the same values I would vehemently attempt to instill in my children if they chose to pursue a sport.

At the end of the day, those that participate in sports at an elite level are still only human who can (and will) make the same mistakes we non-elite sportsmen make, that's a guarantee.

Well then good luck with that, if that is what you believe to be true.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

Well then good luck with that, if that is what you believe to be true.

I would want to hope that the majority of people believe that to be true. I'd hate to think we hold people in high regard just because they play their chosen sport very well. Seems like an exceptionally poor criteria for choosing a role model.

[protd]

Originally Posted by kremmen

I don't think you wake up one morning and decide to be a Sneaky Butcher... :

i think you missed the point :

[Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by herbs

In Utopia, kids would look at their parents, rellies and teachers only as role models, but this isn't Utopia, it's reality. Kids DO look up at their sporting heroes as role models and if someone can kick in sport and it turns out that they're on every drug imaginable, a percentage ofyoung people will think "hey, if he can, why not me?" That's the reality.

People that can be swayed as simply as that are the same group who would take up habbits such as recreational drug use beacuse its "cool."

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I would want to hope that the majority of people believe that to be true. I'd hate to think we hold people in high regard just because they play their chosen sport very well. Seems like an exceptionally poor criteria for choosing a role model.

well then you might be in for a surprise I think. Ask not only your own kids, but others who their heros are, or who they want to be like. I'd love to know if any of them say Fred Hollows, Weary Dunlop or Victor Chang.

Like I said good luck with that.

[Envi XR8]

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

People that can be swayed as simply as that are the same group who would take up habbits such as recreational drug use beacuse its "cool."

and sadly those people do exist.

[TUF_302]

NRL and the AFL are both full of drug cheats i bet!! :

[banarcus]

Sadly in this day and age people will turn to drugs to escape their world. Whether it is to mask painful memories/experiences or just what they have to endure day in day out they will find something to take their mind off it. Whether it br drugs or alcohol, Prime Minister or pauper people will try and mask pain.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

well then you might be in for a surprise I think. Ask not only your own kids, but others who their heros are, or who they want to be like. I'd love to know if any of them say Fred Hollows, Weary Dunlop or Victor Chang.

Like I said good luck with that.

You're like a dog with a bone. Heroes and role models aren't the same. As a kid I would have considered DK Lillee as one of my heroes but never in a million years would I looked up to him as a role model. A hero is someone that achieves in their given profession, a role model is someone that achieves in and outside of their given profession.

In fact I would have a list as long as my arm of all my sporting heroes, but that's all they were, sporting heroes. Lillee was a menace on the field but I admired his competitive spirit and his skill. I have no idea what he was like off it, nor did I care. He was a hero to me due to his onfield achievements.

I would hope my kids when asked would say their role models were mum and dad, since they're the only two role models that should really matter and it would mean we were doing something right.

[Envi XR8]

this is my third attempt at this.

Like I said the 2 previous times, good luck with that.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

this is my third attempt at this.

Like I said the 2 previous times, good luck with that.

Thanks, but luck has nothing to do with it. If your children look at sporting figures as role models, you're the one that needs the luck.