Mitsubishi acts to remedy 380 botch

[xfalconz]

Dave_au no worries i know your not having a go but you say how much day to day driving benefits the RWD, like i said speaking for myself with a turbo the answer is every time i drive the car..
Like you say RWD in large performance cars = better handling and power delivery.

As for he reliability i used to work at a Mitsu dealership in the mid/late 90s and worked on TR/TS/TE/TF Magnas etc and they were actually a reliable car i can count the number of engine rebuilds i did on one hand, the Auto gearbox was a differenf story..
Anyway its a shame a well engineered car like the Magna is strugling, after all its Aussie jobs that will suffer.

[pks54]

dave_au. dont want to come off having a one on one with you, and this is not totally directed to you but i just want to clarify myself. but obviously there are other big 6 cyl fwd cars on the market. what i mean is mistubishi spent the good part of the year saying they are gonna takle the big car market. no brainer here, ie take on ford and holden. and this is what everybody was expecting. and what do they launch, a fwd.

what im saying is mistubishi already had a big 6cy just like camry etc etc. they should have stuck with the magna platform and name and put a big marketing push on some all new refined car "thingy".e.g such as when the camry went "wide body", remember that back then....
anyway they went head on.. and will never (generally) get converts over from ford or holden being a fwd car.

for people that only know how to turn the key and fill up with petrol, well no, they would not know what wheels do what. but from people that even try to think they know about cars, such as the ones im seeing getting company cars, that they think have a i6 commo or a v6 in a falc (....jeeeez), they even themselves remark they dont like the 380 and liked their previous rwd falcs/commos. even if they will never experience any over/under steer characteristics of each platform or even tow for that matter.

this has nothin to do in seeing only blue, just saying they (mistu) took on a wrong approach in naming and marketing. i actually feel sorry for mistubishi as it also coincided with rising fuel prices. good luck, they will need it..................with the 380

[xfalconz]

Something i forgot but how much safer would drivers be if they were taught the differnces in car control between FWD and RWD when they get their lisence. But i think most people know about thier car when they buy it, if its FWD/RWD.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by pks54

dave_au. dont want to come off having a one on one with you

No worries mate, its all good

what i mean is mistubishi spent the good part of the year saying they are gonna takle the big car market. no brainer here, ie take on ford and holden. and this is what everybody was expecting. and what do they launch, a fwd..... just saying they (mistu) took on a wrong approach in naming and marketing. i actually feel sorry for mistubishi as it also coincided with rising fuel prices. good luck, they will need it..................with the 380

Agree, the whole approach to marketing the 380 was wrong. With so much emphasis on it's engine size, it screamed "fuel guzzler" to some and "no v8" to others.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the car itself however
Most importantly - pricing was wrong (although it remains to be seen whether MMAL were actually pushing for a good retail margin to what the new prices are or whether cost cutting was undertaken)

Pre-launch consumer evaluation failed (cant turn off rear vents, no rear seat grab handles, no reach steering wheel, dash pattern not too popular - all really minor adjustments that should have been picked up).

Market campaign was wrong
Timing to market was wrong

[xfalconz]

Its not only the FWD issue and the wrong timing with fuel prices etc but throughout the history of large Aussie cars its been a Ford Vs Holden thing spearheaded by their performance sedans.
People are passionate about their cars and it seems Mitsu missed trying to make inroads and taking customers away from Ford/Holden with their platform,same engine spec and 'boring' image.

[460cixy]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Dave_au no worries i know your not having a go but you say how much day to day driving benefits the RWD, like i said speaking for myself with a turbo the answer is every time i drive the car..
Like you say RWD in large performance cars = better handling and power delivery.

As for he reliability i used to work at a Mitsu dealership in the mid/late 90s and worked on TR/TS/TE/TF Magnas etc and they were actually a reliable car i can count the number of engine rebuilds i did on one hand, the Auto gearbox was a differenf story..
Anyway its a shame a well engineered car like the Magna is strugling, after all its Aussie jobs that will suffer.

there not a peice of crap like ppl think. as for handleing i say take one for a spin and see for your self. i had a bit of a run with a 380 when thay were first available here throu some twisties on the way in to town one night in my eb thats prety low and with decent rubber with eb xr6 camber shims ect it sticks good but had no hope of staying with the 380 ba on the other hand i think would be on par with the 380 and thay both understeer about the same only the 380 can be controled with the right foot like all front drive cars.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by 460cixy

there not a peice of crap like ppl think. as for handleing i say take one for a spin and see for your self. i had a bit of a run with a 380 when thay were first available here throu some twisties on the way in to town one night in my eb thats prety low and with decent rubber with eb xr6 camber shims ect it sticks good but had no hope of staying with the 380 ba on the other hand i think would be on par with the 380 and thay both understeer about the same only the 380 can be controled with the right foot like all front drive cars.

Your right they are not a piece of crap at all even the previous Magnas were a good drive.
I have an XR6T ute with live axle so i reckon the 380 would match it, probabaly beat it with actual corner GRIP, and maybe handling but i guess the difference between them is in the control id assume the 380 would lend itself to understeer at the limit which can be controlled with a bit of a lift off the throttle but if the T is understeering then im definitly doing something wrong!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

(P)76 x 5 = 380

Or perhaps: 380 = AU :

For pete's sake AU owners dont hark up

[Ringo]

'What if'.....and I mean a big 'what if' Mits offered the 380 with the 2.4 mivtec 4 pot engine and positioned it against camry ??????

The 2.4 is a cracker of an engine.......

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Ringo

'What if'.....and I mean a big 'what if' Mits offered the 380 with the 2.4 mivtec 4 pot engine and positioned it against camry ??????

The 2.4 is a cracker of an engine.......

Camry would continue to whip its butt in sales because Toyota is a stable company with a reputation for quality and people like that.

[blackahcdx]

the 380 would probably sell better if it was wearing a PROTON badge

[bo0]

Well it's their only hope in order to improve sales somehow in all seriousness, they definitely would not be discounting intorducting the 4 i reckon, and they'd be silly not to with the way fuel prices are at the moment.

[The Stylist]

I remember the hype before the 380's launch and I got the impression that it would have significant styling changes over the U.S market Galant. I thought the likes of the front/rear, side cladding and interior styling would be completly different - in the same way the BA evolved from the AU.

But no. What we got is a car that in lower spec guise having all the visual allure of an Fisher&Paykal fridge, coupled with the fact that the donor Galant had already been on the market for a few years. So in essence the 380 looked dated at launch.

The 380 is a good car overall - but that's the problem, in no one area is it great, there is no inspiration and passion. If Mitsubishi wanted to they could sell the 380 at your local appliance store in the same section where you'll find the fridges, freezers and microwaves.

Is mitsubishi Australia the next Rover?

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

This is becoming quickly one of those rather infamous threads that probably only ends up serving to discredit FFAU.

Obvously the blue blood always runs strong on here, it is afterall FF, but I would have hoped personally for more of an open view rather than sudden discounting and uninformed view solely on own opinion without consideration of facts.

To those people who complain about the 380 being fwd, and that only rwd sells in large, there are plenty of other large FWD cars that we all seem to forget about:

Maxima
Accord
Accord Euro
Volvo
Camry
Saab
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda 6 (can argue this is a medium sized car, but the point remains)

Have a look at those sales and you'll see they dont do too badly. I'd also quite willingly argue that if the Falcon or the Commodore did switch to fwd, then yes they would lose some sales, but I doubt it would be that much. Afterall, with the way imports have been going these days, it would be safe to argue that there are more front wheel drive cars on the road than rear wheel drives.

Whoever mentioned the platinum sparkplugs, these are required to be changed every 100,000. Removing the intake manifold takes about 10 minutes for a qualified mechanic to do. And suprise suprise, most cars on the road are FWD and suffer the same problem. Additionally, tyres usage should not be an issue when the tyres are rotated at the correct intervals.

90% of the time RWD is pretty much just a marketing gimmic, you dont need rwd to drive from one side of the city to the other. Towing, yes its preferable but a 4wd would tow better. Performance wise, well yes, rwd is better, but how often do the majority of the cars on the road get pushed for performance? Hardly ever.

Exactly

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by xfalconz

Both towing and performance are actually quite important to a large number of Falcon/Commodore owners.

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

[bathurst77]

Wheels this months puts 380 agianst camry- Sonata- Acclaim-futura and maxima in a 6 way.

Overall last was sonata
5th camry
4th 380
3rd Commy
=1st Maxima
=1st Futura

So 380 doesnt have many friends
Perhaps these new lower prices might bump 380 to 3rd but new commy will prob leapfrog them all.

[xfalconz]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

This thread goes from one thing to another, i mentioned some people NEED a RWD for towing, the point being besides a 4WD a RWD sedan is the best alternative.
Im certainly not making a big deal out of it, just an observation and i probably wouldnt expect many people who do tow (boats,cars excluded) to be towing much more than a box trailer anyway.
Right having said that i dont really give a toss about trailers or 380/FWDs anymore due to the fact Performance is what counts to me and my RWD XR6T ute is no comparison to any FWD/380 IN MY OPINION.

[merlin]

Re. Rear wheel drive vs Front wheel drive.

To those saying it makes no difference except on a track, I will have to disagree. Having owned mostly RWD's myself, the partner has always had small FWD's the latest being a Corolla. Even if I am just running errands or commuting, if I take the Corolla, corners that I would normally take with ease it the Falcon see the Corolla constantly wanting to push wide, big understeer on any sort of decent corner speed...in short it just feels horrid at anything more than regular pace (which of course is what it is designed for). In the wet it is an absolute joke - people reckon RWD is dangerous in the wet, i reckon RWD is at least predictable and more controllable unlike FWD understeer into a gutter.

Seriosuly I don't drive that quick on the road but even my partner will manage to understeer it when I am with her if she goes in too quick to a corner (speeds the falcon would take easily). I then imagine a larger, heavier 380 FWD and can only think that the problem would be much worse, which isI'msure what drives a lot of peoples opinions.

All of the above is just my opinion of course _2:

[coyote]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

True. But with regards to towing it always make me laugh when people make such a big deal about it. Reality is that most people never tow anything more than the average box trailer weighing half a tonne.

Yes but how many people know how to load a trailer properly.
How many know the correct towball weights

The issue is that even with a 500kg trailer which equates to only 1/8th of a cubic metre of sand and trailer a front wheel drive can handle eratically if there is too much weight on the ball, where as the same poorly loaded trailer on a RWD will be comparativly safer.

and so I don't start an arguement this is based upon the following -
SG of dry sand >75 micron - <400 micron is 2.65
331 KG leaving 189 Kg for the trailer which is not too far from the norm I would guess.

Now 1/8 of a cubic metre is about 1/2 to 1/3 of that generally put into a trailer from so as you can see this argement is based upon very conservative figures. now at 10% towball weight our eveny loaded 500kg GVM trailer should have 50 kg on the ball,

now for some pie in the sky additions spare wheel on draw bar, majority of load to front of trailer you could have 150kg tow ball weight without even trying, now imagine traveling at 80Km/hr over an undulating highway go over a creek crossing (normal bridge level with road in good condition) as you rise and fall with the expansion joints over twice this load may be applied to the towball, Now we are talking 300kg some 1 to 1.5 m behind the rear axle

Are you getting frightened in your FWD towing yet ??? have not even put wet surface or outer idiots cutting you off into the equation.

Me, I would not even put a towbar on a FWD.

[Dave_au]

Merlin, if your actually pushing a fwd car as so hard to actually notice it understeering, then your pushing it harder than the majority of the motoring public.

[Citric GT]

In the hands of 99% of drivers, FWD is far safer than RWD. Too much throttle around a corner on RWD sends you sideways, too much throttle on FWD cars just spins the inside wheel and the car stays on track.

I've owned 2 Magnas (the last one with 317NM) and never had an ounce of understeer unless I was going completely stupid. In fact, the BAs I've owned have been the most insecure cars I've driven. The rear end jitters all over the place at the slightest bump.

As for towing, my old mans been towing with FWD Magnas for the last 17 years without complaint.

[marcosambrose]

The 380 VRX is a fantastic deal at $36,990 (M), im sure you could sucker the Mistu dealerships into a lower price too as they are desperate for increased sales.

Hell, if i have 37k and was looking for a "New Family sedan" id definately try the 380VRX, i like magnas because of the quick pick-up they offer from the front wheels.

[Bossxr8]

So much for no discounts to keep resale up. How does slashing around 7 grand off the price count as no discounts. Fleets and public buyers who bought 380's in the last few months are going to be p*ssed. Resale values will plummet back to the pathetic percentages of the last Magna. The last desperate throws of a dying company. Who cares if you get a cheaper price when it 2 years time the car won't even be worth half what you paid for it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

The 380 VRX is a fantastic deal at $36,990 (M), im sure you could sucker the Mistu dealerships into a lower price too as they are desperate for increased sales.

Hell, if i have 37k and was looking for a "New Family sedan" id definately try the 380VRX, i like magnas because of the quick pick-up they offer from the front wheels.

Yeh and you can buy a BF XR6 for less...

I know which one id buy but then again im biased.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Yeh and you can buy a BF XR6 for less..

Wrong, BF XR6 NA RRP is $39,710.

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Wrong, BF XR6 NA RRP is $39,710.

And everyone owns an XR6 N/A these days, thats why id like a VRX, something different.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Merlin, if your actually pushing a fwd car as so hard to actually notice it understeering, then your pushing it harder than the majority of the motoring public.

That was my point, myself (and partner) don't really push it that hard at all, still has horrible handling. Though of course I am only talking about a Corolla here, the 380 may be a different thing all together...

[Lagom]

Originally Posted by merlin

That was my point, myself (and partner) don't really push it that hard at all, still has horrible handling. Though of course I am only talking about a Corolla here, the 380 may be a different thing all together...

380s are a reasonable drive, I wouldn't hold up a Corolla as being a paragon of handling

[oyob2003]

I think that the perception that the AU was ugly came from the press, they bagged it before it was realeased, and long, long after, if anyone can destroy a car it is the press they only wrote about the cosmetics not the running gear, if the AU was ugly how come the mitu 360 never got a bagging. I do not know but if "wheels" bagged the AU first the dont know anything would surely follow otherwise they would feel like xxxxheads if they wrote the AU was a very nice car, follow the pack.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by oyob2003

I think that the perception that the AU was ugly came from the press, they bagged it before it was realeased, and long, long after, if anyone can destroy a car it is the press they only wrote about the cosmetics not the running gear, if the AU was ugly how come the mitu 360 never got a bagging. I do not know but if "wheels" bagged the AU first the dont know anything would surely follow otherwise they would feel like xxxxheads if they wrote the AU was a very nice car, follow the pack.

Its simple. The AU copped a bagging over its looks because it was just plain fugly. XRs and T3s were OK, but the Forte was about the ugliest thing ever driven on the road.