New P Plate Laws now Official

[Ozfords]

Originally Posted by bArNsY

They should bring in tougher rules for over 65's as they have a higher risk in minor accidents than the 15-25yo's

they might start with an over 65's plate

Funny you should say that the young liberals suggested that like 5 years ago.

Obviously it got laughed out of parliment and made fun of in the media.

The 'G' plate would definatly be a good thing. After seeing so many golden oldies drifting from side to side on the road, travelling 20 k's under the limit and taking corners and roundabouts at about 5kph.

[AWD Chaser]

Well what do you do if you don't like it? Protest? Who's up for a nice massive protest at parliament... drive all our cars up there with our big massive P plates on them..... lol.... I hate the government... I will vote for a different party\, but they will end up being just as bad and stupid.... so it's loose/loose...

Luckily I just went to my opens, but I'm about to go on my P's for my motorbike... do these rules apply to me? (well, I'm ACT, so I guess not - anyway, the ACT opposes the new rules anyway)....

The point I would like to raise is... When trying to throw all the bad points out about P Platers, they forget to mention that all drivers above the age of 25 have a worse death rate then P-Platers....

[AWD Chaser]

Hows this for a granny plate:




or



or

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

The point I would like to raise is... When trying to throw all the bad points out about P Platers, they forget to mention that all drivers above the age of 25 have a worse death rate then P-Platers....

Rate or amount, there's a big difference....

Dont use Steffo's logic of counting all the road deaths for drivers aged between 25 and 70+ and comparing it to the number of deaths for drivers aged 17-24 to justify some stupid theory that the 25-70+ age bracket are worse.... you're comparing a 45+ year age spead to a 7 year age spread.

The fact still remains that the 17 - 24 age group are nearly twice as likely % wise to be involved in an accident than any other age group, including the 25-70+ age group!

[Polyal]

my turn for a pic!

[BeStRaFe]

i think something needs to be done about the road toll..
but this is just redicilous!

New laws as of July 1:

1) Must display P plates on outside of vehicle. (i agree - i did this whist on my p's)
2) Can only carry 1 passenger under 21 years old between 11pm and 5am (bad idea - more drunken teenages on the road people!!!)
3) 0 Demerit points for speeding offences - automatic suspension (1 misake you loose it for 3 months - thats just blanket stupidity)
4) L plates go to 12 months minimum (meh, most do anyway)
5) 120 hours of supervised driving experience and a 45 minute test, 30 mins of which has to be on a busy road with focus on hazard perception.. (just increesing the cost of getting your licence... - i average what my 30! yes 30 hours of learning cost and it was about 1.5 GRAND... 120 hours... ARE YOU KIDDING) (another reason the RTA will have slower lines at their offices)

[MarkAW]

And about time too

Talk about the winge and whine generation.

For those that are old enough, P Plates in the mid to late 70's could be lost for 3 months for any infringement other than a parking fine. Yes crossing double yellows, rolling through a stop sign, not using the blinker correctly (signalling) or anything else the cops wanted to make up.

Its only a single year of this, 12 months, 365 days. If you can't do this without getting caught for speeding then you don't deserve to have a license.

Now we get all the holier than thou brats -

why am I being penalised - I neeever do anything wrong :newangel:

If you don't break the rules and its only speeding rules and not the million and one other offences then you wont get caught and won't loose your license. The new rules are coming and the vast majority of the public are sick of P Plates and their stupidity on the roads.

But I can't have all my mates with me - sob sob sob

When was the last time one of your "mates" told you to: slow down, stop harassing some other driver, stay in the lane, this is not a race track.


In the last ten years the attitude of the P Plate driver has gone over the top its got the be stopped before you lot kill too many others ie passengers or other road users, let alone yourselves.

You have brought these measures on yourselves by your own actions - get over it

Maybe in time when this demographic group of driver can prove that the laws are no longer warranted, they will be removed.

Consider this - All those idoits who have stated that these laws are unfair and shall flout the new laws only go to prove that these laws should be enforced ever further.

For those of you that don't like these views - I can't find the smilie with the middle finger raised but you get the message.

[TUF514]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Rate or amount, there's a big difference....

Dont use Steffo's logic of counting all the road deaths for drivers aged between 25 and 70+ and comparing it to the number of deaths for drivers aged 17-24 to justify some stupid theory that the 25-70+ age bracket are worse.... you're comparing a 45+ year age spead to a 7 year age spread.

The fact still remains that the 17 - 24 age group are nearly twice as likely % wise to be involved in an accident than any other age group, including the 25-70+ age group!

:

the company i worked for not long back had a motto. it was " we bank dollars not percentages ".

who gives a **** about percentages? they mean nothing.

the only thing laws should be derived from are numbers.

as far as steffos comparison goes, he wasnt targeting age groups, he was targeting the typical age of a P plater and the typical age of an Open driver.

he has a very good point if you can cast your mind past a useless percentage.

its hard for some unfortunately.

[colossus]

Originally Posted by dumpieez_xb_ute

:

the company i worked for not long back had a motto. it was " we bank dollars not percentages ".


who gives a **** about percentages? they mean nothing.

the only thing laws should be derived from are numbers.

as far as steffos comparison goes, he wasnt targeting age groups, he was targeting the typical age of a P plater and the typical age of an Open driver.

he has a very good point if you can cast your mind past a useless percentage.

its hard for some unfortunately.

Sorry but your logic and Steffo's logic are both flawed.

Straight from the RTA:

People under 26 comprise only 15% of driver licences
but are involved in 36% of road fatalities.
During the five-year period 1999 to 2003, fatal crashes
involving drivers* aged under 26 resulted in 1017 fatalities.
There were 973 drivers and riders aged under 26 years
involved in these crashes. Of these, 760 (78%) were
identified as the controller of the vehicle primarily
responsible for the crash. In contrast, only 60% of drivers
aged over 25 years involved in fatal crashes over the
same period were identified as the key vehicle controller.
A 17-year-old driver with a P1 licence is about four times
more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than a driver
aged 26 or older.


Crashes and passengers
Young drivers have a greater risk of involvement in a fatal
crash if they have two or more passengers.
Of the 89 young drivers involved in fatal crashes from
2001 to 2003, 36 per cent were driving with two or
more passengers.This contrasts with 15 per cent for
drivers aged 26 and over.

Time of crash
Numerous international and national studies, along with
an analysis of NSW crash data, have confirmed the
increased risk for young drivers at night.
The involvement of young drivers in late night and early
morning fatal crashes is significantly higher than that of older
drivers as outlined in figure 3. Of the 96 P plate drivers
aged under 26 who were involved in fatal crashes from
2001 to 2003, 33% crashed between 10pm and 5am.This
compared with 14% of drivers aged 26 years and over.

Young drivers with a P licence are six times more likely
to be involved in a fatal crash between 10pm and 5am
than other drivers.**
The over-involvement of young drivers is highest on
Friday and Saturday nights. However, young drivers are
also over-represented on other nights of the week.

[Bucknaked]

Is that all. I thought they were tough new laws. You guys complain too much.

Flappist has a point. You guys complain so much and whinge so much, that when you get the opportunity to do something about it, you don't.

In Canberra, people complained when the government said no dragway. Libs said we will build a complex for motorsport in the ACT, then time comes to vote the libs in, and what happened, Labour won again and no dragway. Stupid bumper stickers.

Stop your sooking and do something at election time. Otherwise, just live within the law. We have to, why can't you.

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by JC

The 17 to 21 bit is stupid. So a P plater can take 4 of his 16 year old friends to a party. If those friends all turn 17 at midnight, he can't take them home again!

And your point is? If a first year p plater goes out on the 365th day of having his licence and leaves the party at 1am he can now take people home? Must of got a wealth of experience that night. There are cuts off everywhere in life. Can't touch a drop of grog at 17 years and 365 days but can knock back a slab at 6am the next morning? WGAF.

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

I will vote for a different party\, but they will end up being just as bad and stupid.... so it's loose/loose...

There's more to politics than ticking a box on election day you know? Ever heard of writing (intelligent) letters to your local member?

[HLC]

Originally Posted by merlin

Front page of the Daily Telegraph (and page 4) though I did confirm it with a contact from the RTA.

Apply's to first year P platers only.

so because im a 3rd year p-plater, i can leave my p-plates inside my car after july 1?

[HLC]

oh yeah, and when is the election? i need to get on the electoral roll...

[Interceptor]

i'm with flappist, i'll voice my opinion in the polling booth next election

what i find amusing is that while the government is happy to state the following figures:
17-25yo's make up 13%-15% of the driving population
17-25yo's are involved in 32%-36% of fatal crashes

they dont say anything about
1: how many of those 32%-36% of fatal crashes were the younger drivers fault
2: wether more or less driving (distance as well as actual hours behind the wheel per year/month/week/day) is done by younger drivers compared to the older generation

all they've done is taken raw statistics and used them as a propoganda tool to justify new legislation designed to make them look good in the runup to an election, they dont dare give an accurate breakdown incase it proves them wrong

how many younger drivers who own nice cars are in the habit of going out and driving around town aimlessly either to show off thier car or just to enjoy driving? generally, as you mature, you grow out of that phase, and the amount you drive decreases.

tell me, who has a higher chance of getting hit? Person A, who only drives back and forth from work, and to the shops, or Person B who hits the streets 5-6 nights a week as well as to/from work?

simple statistics that the more you do something, the greater the chance of something bad happening.

as for all the older members here who are moaning about the younger generation, just remember, you were young once, you probably owned some form of "hotted up" car, and i'll bet you played silly buggers on more than one occasion, and i'd bet that most of you have known someone in your age group who was killed in a car accident when they were young

just because you survived that period of your lives doesnt mean you have any right to display a holier than thou attitude towards those younger than yourselves, as i said, even you were young once

enough of my ranting, the real problem is that all the restrictions, bullshit or not, have been brought about by the stupidity of a VERY small percentage of younger drivers, but instead of the culprits getting punished, the rest of us suffer

the best cure? severely punish repeat offenders

[AK]

Originally Posted by eb91xr6

the 0 point thing means that p'platers will always get there olds to take the heat as they will lose there licence and most cant e ****** taking there kids to school when they could drive, alot of my friends have had there fokes take the points as they didnt want to lose there licence, i think its just stupid go back to the rule i had witch was u get a speeding fine u have 4 demerit points and u get a brech of licence fee of like $52 or somthing and you keep your licence aslong as u have 1 or more points.

My parents would never take the blame for me and I agree with them, it would be my problem to deal with not theirs.

The new laws are annoying but I'll live with them.

[xbcool]

its my understanding that L plates are only valid for 12months, but you need to hold them for 12months minimum, therefore you will need to renew you L plates to obtain your P plates.
I thought the objective was to get you P plates within the 12 month period.
now Im confused:

[AK]

Originally Posted by xbcool

its my understanding that L plates are only valid for 12months, but you need to hold them for 12months minimum, therefore you will need to renew you L plates to obtain your P plates.
I thought the objective was to get you P plates within the 12 month period.
now Im confused:

I think its 36 months that they are valid for.

[xbcool]

Originally Posted by backinblack

I think its 36 months that they are valid for.

thanks kindly

[T_Terror]

my god are the state governments trying to outdo each other with ridiculous legislation.

where is the reasoning behind the passenger limit restrictions?

Looks like NSW has taken over from Vic as the anti- young driver state.

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I'll be voting. I can't wait to. I would do more if I could. These laws won't affect me as much as some, but just the same I think its stupidity and an invasion of civil freedom that should not be allowed to go on.

On the money.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Poyale

2) Can only carry 1 passenger under 21 years old between 11pm and 5am Makes sense, you can get a lift to a party and not back, big deal, you manage to spend x amount on smokes/beer/drugs and your too tight to catch a cab! It makes perfect sense to restrict during this time, a thing called peer pressure comes to mind.

Not a matter of being tight. Caught a cab lately champ? Last time I did it cost $70 one way. That's nearly 2 weeks petrol money. Also what about a simple trip to the movies?

This law goes against the drink driving message. Kids will think rather than fork out the cab charge I will just drive, hey because after all we know there is very little chance of being caught these days.

I wonder if parents will get fed up carting their kids around and join the angry mob of P platers next election and let their feet do the talking.

Many pushed the power restrictions were a good idea many on this forum included, but they haven't work just like I and many others believed they wouldn't. Instead they have got young voters ****ed off.

Once again I believe these new round of laws won't work but if they do I'll eat my words.

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

what i find amusing is that while the government is happy to state the following figures:
17-25yo's make up 13%-15% of the driving population
17-25yo's are involved in 32%-36% of fatal crashes

they dont say anything about
1: how many of those 32%-36% of fatal crashes were the younger drivers fault

Yep its all a conspiracy! Or you could open your eyes and see what you dont want to see which is that the statistics are readily available - in fact I already stated them in this thread:

People under 26 comprise only 15% of driver licences
but are involved in 36% of road fatalities.
During the five-year period 1999 to 2003, fatal crashes
involving drivers* aged under 26 resulted in 1017 fatalities.
There were 973 drivers and riders aged under 26 years
involved in these crashes. Of these, 760 (78%) were
identified as the controller of the vehicle primarily
responsible for the crash. In contrast, only 60% of drivers
aged over 25 years involved in fatal crashes over the
same period were identified as the key vehicle controller.
A 17-year-old driver with a P1 licence is about four times
more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than a driver
aged 26 or older.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

2: wether more or less driving (distance as well as actual hours behind the wheel per year/month/week/day) is done by younger drivers compared to the older generation

Think about it for a minute - Do you honestly think that 17 year old P1 P platers who are mainly still in high school rack up more kays than regular working joes? People around the P1 age are still mostly at living at home attending local school or study which means majority of travel is mainly local. Working adults on the other hand commute to and from their jobs many of which do a 100km round trip in peak hour traffic conditions. Thats just standard jobs, then you have couriers, taxi drivers, bus drivers, ambo drivers ect. who are all included in those stats. But of course a P1 17 year old who does crap all kays at 2am in the morning on deserted roads has more traffic experience? Check the stats again.

[Interceptor]

ok, so the 17yo's might not drive a lot, but what about 21-25yo's?

my record for one day around town was 331km.... on a saturday..... pulling laps in a not overly large town (Emerald in central Queensland) and that was when i was 23..... wasnt getting well paid at the time and i lived on my own

and where did i say anything about the number of k's P platers do directly affecting thier experience? what i said was that it increased their chances of getting in an accident

sure, there's couriers, ambo's, and the rest of the population who drive for a living, but how many people are there who drive (or even WALK) to thier local bus/train station, catch pulic trnsport to thier workplace and sit in a damn cubicle all day? they sure rack up the k's there, dont they?

and before you get wound up saying i think its all a conspiracy theory, take a look here:
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/youngdrivers

Too many young people are dying on Queensland roads, with 17-24 year olds one of the most at-risk groups. In 2005 just 13 per cent of our drivers were young people, and yet 32 per cent of our road toll --- 106 fatalities --- came as a result of young driver crashes.

they're pretty economical with the statistics there, arent they? and how often do you see the FULL statistics printed? 99.9% of the time its just what looks good

feel free to apologise and then STFU whenever you're ready

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

ok, so the 17yo's might not drive a lot, but what about 21-25yo's?

What about 21-25 year olds? These laws only affect P1 licesnses which is the first 12 months. Only a small percentage of people would wait till they were 21-25 to get their first year p's.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

my record for one day around town was 331km.... on a saturday..... pulling laps in a not overly large town (Emerald in central Queensland) and that was when i was 23..... wasnt getting well paid at the time and i lived on my own

So the laws shoudnt come in as they would prevent your ability to "pulling laps" - yep thats responsible.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

sure, there's couriers, ambo's, and the rest of the population who drive for a living, but how many people are there who drive (or even WALK) to thier local bus/train station, catch pulic trnsport to thier workplace and sit in a damn cubicle all day? they sure rack up the k's there, dont they?

They still do more kays than first year p1 license holders.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

and before you get wound up saying i think its all a conspiracy theory, take a look here:
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/youngdrivers

Too many young people are dying on Queensland roads, with 17-24 year olds one of the most at-risk groups. In 2005 just 13 per cent of our drivers were young people, and yet 32 per cent of our road toll --- 106 fatalities --- came as a result of young driver crashes.?

What the hell do Queensland stats have to do with NSW laws? Although you did just prove my point further anyway.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

feel free to apologise and then STFU whenever you're ready

Apologise for what? For pointing out that you are incorrect regarding statistics and that you can't seem to see past your own agenda?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by colossus

What the hell do Queensland stats have to do with NSW laws? Although you did just prove my point further anyway.

That was bizzare!
Got to love it when someone who's arguing against you posts statistics that support your position!!!!

[AWD Chaser]

May I point out that the majority of first year P-Platers in NSW are 17.... now you say that if you don't like the rules, don't vote them in... but 17 yo's don't vote until they are 18.... so all these new rules affect those (majority) who cannot vote....

To be quite honest, I don't think they are that harsh, but they are annoying, could make things inconviniant, and some, useless (P plates on outside of car?)... still... they could have turned around and just done an all out ban on night time driving and 6 cyl cars.... be thankfull that they havn't....

Still, out of the panel that made this up - 4 out of the 9 strongly disagreed with the new rules, the NRMA disagrees with the new rules, and the ACT government opposes them too.... just goes to show that they prob won't work...

[merlin]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That was bizzare!
Got to love it when someone who's arguing against you posts statistics that support your position!!!!

lol I noticed that too e

Originally Posted by AU3Chaser

Still, out of the panel that made this up - 4 out of the 9 strongly disagreed with the new rules, the NRMA disagrees with the new rules

That bit of the article only referred to the passenger restrictions not the the other rules which i belive were unanimous. NRMA's position (I cant work out how they even have a say) is that passenger restrictions will affect designated drivers.

[El_Poochino]

Display plates on outside only? What does it matter as long as there visible. Besides, half the NSW P platers I see jam there plates that far behind there no. plate that you can't see them anyway.

The passenger restriction just underminds the dessy dave program. Will effect the country kids mostly. If your going out to a farm for a party you either have to leave early or hope that your welcome till the wee hours of the morning.

More driver training would be better. May not stop people doing something stupid but the training may turn a fatality into a mear fender bender.

Nationwide laws would be great too, I asked NSW police as a Victorian P plater do I have to obey the NSW 100kmph speed cap for P platers. One said no, one said yes. I play it safe and only do 100 but it's silly that the cops don't know what law to enforce.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by El_Poochino

More driver training would be better. May not stop people doing something stupid but the training may turn a fatality into a mear fender bender.
.

All the driver training in the world is avaliable to you right now, go do a driving course, there's plenty around, don't use driver training as an excuse, people need to get off their butts and go do it rather than waiting for handouts, take the initiative and go take responsibility for your own ability.

[Sladdo]

F#^k me dead!! i get my L's on August 5th argh!!!