Malaysian Airways Flight 370

[ltd]

Conspiracy theories are fatally flawed.
As we have just passed the anniversary of 911 all the conspiracists have come out with their nonsensical rantings trying to make themselves seem as though they are smarter than everyone else. The ironic thing is, conspiracists the world over have one thing in common with eachother - they all fabricate and exaggerate evidence to suit their myopic viewpoint. If I got a dollar for every time I've heard people categorically state what a 767 can and cannot do by idiots whose only experience is flightsim or "A friend told me", I would be able to retire.
Do yourselves a favour, and ignore the conspiracists. They are desperately unhappy people with their own agenda and typically when hit with evidence their arguments fall over. Fact of the matter is, there are some extremely crazy people in the world as we've seen with the beheadings etc in the Middle East, and unfortunately some of them are thrust into a position where their decisions affect the lives of others.
When MH370 is found, the answer will present itself and speculative assholes who seek to gain either notoriety or wealth deserve nothing but scorn.

[motomk]

Originally Posted by motomk

Program on in the UK that helped explain a lot of why it couldn't be tracked and how Immarsat have been helping out. Links might not work in Oz though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b047czkj

Same program was on SBS on Sunday night.
Link that works for Australia.
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/304603715842

[Bobman]

Saw that show. Actually quite impressive how a private company helped out like that and the amount of brainstorming going on to get the best results for all.

This new search should be just about to begin now too.

[naddis01]

Have they searched the hot spot identified by Inmarsat yet?

[Yellow_Festiva]

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/...end/ar-BB8CVDD

MH370: Emirates Airlines head Tim Clark says missing plane was 'under control, probably until the very end'

The head of a major international airlines has criticised the Australian-led mission to find Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, saying he believes the aircraft was always under control and may not be in the southern Indian Ocean.

Emirates Airline head Tim Clark has thrown doubt on the official line that the aircraft, which had 239 people on board when it disappeared in March, flew south on autopilot for five hours until it ran out of fuel and plummeted into the water.

"MH370 was, in my opinion, under control, probably until the very end," Mr Clark said in an interview with with German magazine Der Spiegel.

"Our experience tells us that in water incidents, where the aircraft has gone down, there is always something. We have not seen a single thing that suggests categorically that this aircraft is where they say it is, apart from this so-called electronic satellite "handshake," which I question as well."

Investigators have been searching for the missing Boeing 777 along the seventh arc - or the final satellite "handshake" - where it is believed the aircraft ran out of fuel and went into descent.

But Mr Clark said there was "not even a seat cushion" of evidence that the the plane had ended up there and that all the "facts" needed to be re-examined.

"There hasn't been one overwater incident in the history of civil aviation - apart from Amelia Earhart in 1939 - that has not been at least 5 or 10 per cent trackable. But MH370 has simply disappeared," he said.

"For me, that raises a degree of suspicion. I'm totally dissatisfied with what has been coming out of all of this."

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau released a report this week saying end of flight simulators showed the MH370 entered a "descending, spiralling" turn into the southern Indian ocean.

Investigators also confirmed they had shifted their search efforts further south after refined analysis of flight and satellite data.

Mr Clark said there needed to be more transparency about the information that was available.

"There is plenty of information out there, which we need to be far more forthright, transparent and candid about. Every single second of that flight needs to be examined up until it, theoretically, ended up in the Indian Ocean - for which they still haven't found a trace, not even a seat cushion."

Emirates operates more Boeing 777 jets than any other airline in the world.

Mr Clark said manufacturers needed to make it impossible for communications and tracking devices on the flight deck to be disabled, so monitoring of aricraft could continue uninterrupted regardless of who was in control.

"I do not subscribe to the view that the Boeing 777, which is one of the most advanced in the world and has the most advanced communication platforms, needs to be improved with the introduction of some kind of additional tracking system," Mr Clark said.

"MH370 should never have been allowed to enter a non-trackable situation."

The search for the missing flight, which was en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing when it mysteriously vanished on March 8, resumed this week.

The Malaysia-contracted GO Phoenix arrived in the search area on Monday and is using sonar technology that investigators hope will detect large pieces of debris.

The ATSB has warned that this search area could still change.

"Although of reasonably high confidence, and relatively large, this area does not contain all the possible derived paths," the report released on Wednesday.

Mr Clark said it was vital that the truth about happened to the plane, of which no sign has been found, is discovered.

"MH370 remains one of the great aviation mysteries. Personally, I have the concern that we will treat it as such and move on. At the most, it might then make an appearance on National Geographic as one of aviation's great mysteries," he said.

"We mustn't allow this to happen. We must know what caused that airplane to disappear."

[Juan Loco]

Makes a valid point.
I watched a show about it recently, and it explained the satellite handshake data, but for me there were still too many assumptions.
The military radar and latest data showed that after crossing back over Malaysia in a Westerly direction, the plane then turned NORTH-West. So to hit the curves representing the satellite handshakes, they are assuming it then turned South again, and then followed the straightest course possible to hit those curves.
Problem with that is you have to assume that either somebody is turning the plane, or the auto-pilot is only maintaining height & speed not direction. In either case, the course could have been completely random, which means that the final handshake could have been over a much wider portion of the curve.

As the author says, where is the debris? Had they found SOME trace, then the satellite analysis would have been a brilliant piece of investigation, but they have found NOTHING.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ltd

Conspiracy theories are fatally flawed.
As we have just passed the anniversary of 911 all the conspiracists have come out with their nonsensical rantings trying to make themselves seem as though they are smarter than everyone else. The ironic thing is, conspiracists the world over have one thing in common with eachother - they all fabricate and exaggerate evidence to suit their myopic viewpoint. If I got a dollar for every time I've heard people categorically state what a 767 can and cannot do by idiots whose only experience is flightsim or "A friend told me", I would be able to retire.
Do yourselves a favour, and ignore the conspiracists. They are desperately unhappy people with their own agenda and typically when hit with evidence their arguments fall over. Fact of the matter is, there are some extremely crazy people in the world as we've seen with the beheadings etc in the Middle East, and unfortunately some of them are thrust into a position where their decisions affect the lives of others.
When MH370 is found, the answer will present itself and speculative assholes who seek to gain either notoriety or wealth deserve nothing but scorn.

you got this one wrong old mate, i would not paint all conspiracy theorists as nutters, and many many cospiracy theories over the years have been proven true,

you have to have a healthy dose of skepticism imo, if 50 politicians tell on job X a claw hammer costs $ 50,000 dollars, do we just blindly believe it ?

you only have to look at motives for humans to do evil, and those are many and it doesn't take to much searching through history to find real life conspiracy that proved true.
Money, power, religion , jealousy, hate, greed, sex , power, money (yes i said money twice , i like that one).
we see conspiracy's every single day right in front of our noses and can do nothing about it,
i give you fuel price fixing between companies as only one example, are we all nutters ? no we know it happens, don't think security agencies have secrets and collude with party's for agenda`s ?
conspiracy's are endless.
As for 9`11 , i think i could pose 3 questions to you , and i bet i would have you thinking , but this is obviously not the place or the time.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by mik

As for 9`11 , i think i could pose 3 questions to you , and i bet i would have you thinking , but this is obviously not the place or the time.

Building 7.

[Bobman]

The funny thing is conspiracies are chosen. Where are the theories for all the other events we never hear about?

As for MH370, I'd say they're at the right spot, but given how vast it is it will either be luck or time!

There have been two other large commercial jet aircraft vanish never to be seen again and at least they had a rough idea of where they were flying, but still no trace found. Talking Boeing 707 & 727 here.

[ILLaViTaR]

Shot down off the Vietnamese coast in a coverup is looking very likely, Thailand was still in that area for ages despite it being confirmed the plane turned over the Malacca strait.

Facts are not facts, JORN did not see it once in the 6hrs it was in our vicinity. It simply did not fly south. Therefore the southern corridor/inmarsat are invalid information. The cargo manifest is also being deliberately hidden.... either Malaysia had something very unlawful on there or even something epic (MA also has licenses to carry toxic bioweapons and radioactive materials).

Facts are JORN didn't detect it, Thailand kept cleaning up the south china sea despite the lead being redundant and they won't release over 2 tonnes of manifest information.

The fact they won't release the manifest is essentially enough to make you think it would be very implicit in explaining what actually occurred.

[cram_it_frog]

so what is the total bill up till now for the search has it hit 1 billion yet it must be close

I really do feel for those family's especially around Christmas time that is when it hit home the most

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Shot down off the Vietnamese coast in a coverup is looking very likely, Thailand was still in that area for ages despite it being confirmed the plane turned over the Malacca strait.

Facts are not facts, JORN did not see it once in the 6hrs it was in our vicinity. It simply did not fly south. Therefore the southern corridor/inmarsat are invalid information. The cargo manifest is also being deliberately hidden.... either Malaysia had something very unlawful on there or even something epic (MA also has licenses to carry toxic bioweapons and radioactive materials).

Facts are JORN didn't detect it, Thailand kept cleaning up the south china sea despite the lead being redundant and they won't release over 2 tonnes of manifest information.

The fact they won't release the manifest is essentially enough to make you think it would be very implicit in explaining what actually occurred.

Normally I think the exact opposite you do, but this time you raise valid points.

[XBROO]

And the mystery continues, really we are no closer to finding out what happened then when it first started. You know there's people out there that know exactly what happened, but it's none of us.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Shot down off the Vietnamese coast in a coverup is looking very likely, Thailand was still in that area for ages despite it being confirmed the plane turned over the Malacca strait.

Facts are not facts, JORN did not see it once in the 6hrs it was in our vicinity. It simply did not fly south. Therefore the southern corridor/inmarsat are invalid information. The cargo manifest is also being deliberately hidden.... either Malaysia had something very unlawful on there or even something epic (MA also has licenses to carry toxic bioweapons and radioactive materials).

Facts are JORN didn't detect it, Thailand kept cleaning up the south china sea despite the lead being redundant and they won't release over 2 tonnes of manifest information.

The fact they won't release the manifest is essentially enough to make you think it would be very implicit in explaining what actually occurred.

Isn't that where one of the first eye-witness claims of seeing a burning plane originated from?

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by ltd

Conspiracy theories are fatally flawed.
As we have just passed the anniversary of 911 all the conspiracists have come out with their nonsensical rantings trying to make themselves seem as though they are smarter than everyone else. The ironic thing is, conspiracists the world over have one thing in common with eachother - they all fabricate and exaggerate evidence to suit their myopic viewpoint. If I got a dollar for every time I've heard people categorically state what a 767 can and cannot do by idiots whose only experience is flightsim or "A friend told me", I would be able to retire.
Do yourselves a favour, and ignore the conspiracists. They are desperately unhappy people with their own agenda and typically when hit with evidence their arguments fall over. Fact of the matter is, there are some extremely crazy people in the world as we've seen with the beheadings etc in the Middle East, and unfortunately some of them are thrust into a position where their decisions affect the lives of others.
When MH370 is found, the answer will present itself and speculative assholes who seek to gain either notoriety or wealth deserve nothing but scorn.

Mate, the politicians must love you - dont question the official line.

Think that almost every major conflict/war this century had a nice big fat piece of deception as part of the sell job to the public.

explosion of the battleship Maine at Havana, Cuba.
Lusitania sinking
Gulf of Tonkin
Forewarning of pearl harbour
WMD's in Iraq

then you have dodgy plane disappearances before that everyone forgets about
do more than 2 minutes research on Korean Air Lines Flight 007 and not have some doubts

then you have other conspiacy theories that no one would have ever believed but turned out to be true.

MKULTRA experiments
Operation Northwoods (I guess the US might just do a false flag)
CIA Selling drugs
Operation Mockingbird
And just recently director of National Intelligence James Clapper lied about spying on US citizens

but i guess we sould be happy little drones and ignore all that.


and finally back to MH370. Besides talking to some one involved in the search stating to me directly that they are pretty sure its not anywhere near where they are looking. you have this little gem recently:
Indonesian police chief General Sutarman says he knows what happened to the missing Malaysian Airlines plane
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...f-says-4261253

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Shot down off the Vietnamese coast in a coverup is looking very likely, Thailand was still in that area for ages despite it being confirmed the plane turned over the Malacca strait.

Facts are not facts, JORN did not see it once in the 6hrs it was in our vicinity. It simply did not fly south. Therefore the southern corridor/inmarsat are invalid information. The cargo manifest is also being deliberately hidden.... either Malaysia had something very unlawful on there or even something epic (MA also has licenses to carry toxic bioweapons and radioactive materials).

Facts are JORN didn't detect it, Thailand kept cleaning up the south china sea despite the lead being redundant and they won't release over 2 tonnes of manifest information.

The fact they won't release the manifest is essentially enough to make you think it would be very implicit in explaining what actually occurred.

JORN was most likely switched off at the time because we're not at war and the thing costs a bomb to run (electricity costs)

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

and finally back to MH370. Besides talking to some one involved in the search stating to me directly that they are pretty sure its not anywhere near where they are looking. you have this little gem recently:
Indonesian police chief General Sutarman says he knows what happened to the missing Malaysian Airlines plane
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...f-says-4261253

So, Someone is brave enough to report to the media that the police chief said that he knows what happened to the plane, but they are not brave enough to actually say what did supposedly happen? Or the Police Chief said that he knows what happened but didn't actually say what did supposedly happen?

Call me a skeptic.....

Craig H

[CoupeKing]

Even if they do find the plane resting at the bottom of the Indian Ocean, the Conspiracy theorists will just say 'its a cover up and the Americans put the plane there' . This whack job mentality will keep continuing until another major event takes place and they jump ship. Kind of like the Moon landings, Y2k Bug, 9/11, 2012...many more.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by ltd

The ironic thing is, conspiracists the world over have one thing in common with eachother - they all fabricate and exaggerate evidence to suit their myopic viewpoint. If I got a dollar for every time I've heard people categorically state what a 767 can and cannot do by idiots whose only experience is flightsim or "A friend told me", I would be able to retire.

I don't like getting into conspiracy debates, but since you are the one to bring up 9/11, I'm sure you are aware that it's not just the nut jobs in tinfoil hats who think the official report is dodgy.

Some of the professionals who believe there is more to 9/11 than we are told include architects, engineers, pilots and other aviation professionals, aircraft crash investigators, US army and air force professionals, scientists and firefighters, paramedics and police (who were there on the day)

I'm not trying to convince you that any of these professionals are correct, I just wanted to point out that people who know what they are talking about can also be 'conspiracy theorists'
Personally I'd believe professionals in a subject over the government. Governments never lie or deceive do they?


As for MH370, I don't know what to make of it, it is weird with all these reports of it possibly flying in the wrong direction.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by steve.zissou

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 and not have some doubts

Eh?

KAL007 was indeed shot by the Soviets but they even shot down another KAL plane (707) where it made an emergency landing on ice without fatalities. The plane was cut up and taken by the Soviets.

Moving away from that one thing I have always found interesting is that conspiracy theorists will always cherry pick incidents they feel like making stories about.

You never see conspiracy theories about a plane crash in rural Africa or Iran or the dozens in Russia (apart from the 2010 Polish president one).

[aussiblue]

Some of the professionals who believe there is more to 9/11 than we are told include architects, engineers, pilots and other aviation professionals, aircraft crash investigators, US army and air force professionals, scientists and firefighters, paramedics and police (who were there on the day)

Just again proves there are crazy and/or naive people in all professions. There are similarly lots of professionals who are scientologist, creation theorists, believers in alien abductions etc etc.

[MAD]

There's also a lot of people in professions that aren't very good at what they do.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Just again proves there are crazy and/or naive people in all professions. There are similarly lots of professionals who are scientologist, creation theorists, believers in alien abductions etc etc.

Huh?! So if anyone doesn't tow the Govt./mainstream media line we are crazy or naive?
Who's pulling your strings, puppet.

Add another 'conspiracy theory' to the list where Governemts, big business, brainwashing media NEVER mislead the public, ANZ flight 901 1979.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by smoo

Huh?! So if anyone doesn't tow the Govt./mainstream media line we are crazy or naive?
Who's pulling your strings, puppet.

Add another 'conspiracy theory' to the list where Governemts, big business, brainwashing media NEVER mislead the public, ANZ flight 901 1979.

I wouldn't count the erebus incident as a conspiracy. Simply a single company lying to cover fatal flaws in procedure and performance.
Oh and the fact it was the MD DC10...widowmaker!

JP

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I wouldn't count the erebus incident as a conspiracy. Simply a single company lying to cover fatal flaws in procedure and performance.
Oh and the fact it was the MD DC10...widowmaker!

JP

100% Govt owned at the time.
Yeah cool planes, I think Fed ex still have one on freight in/out of Syd.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Moving away from that one thing I have always found interesting is that conspiracy theorists will always cherry pick incidents they feel like making stories about.

You never see conspiracy theories about a plane crash in rural Africa or Iran or the dozens in Russia (apart from the 2010 Polish president one).

Most conspiracies start around major events that have suspicious elements to them. Like if it leads to other controversial events or is unusual in another way(a plane disappearing off radar and then various reports of it heading way off course)

If farmer Igor in the middle of Siberia crashes his crop duster into a tree in heavy fog, it's not very suspicious.
I don't understand why you are saying conspiracy theorists are making up crap just because they don't have a conspiracy theory on every incident that happens in the world.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Most conspiracies start around major events that have suspicious elements to them. Like if it leads to other controversial events or is unusual in another way(a plane disappearing off radar and then various reports of it heading way off course)

If farmer Igor in the middle of Siberia crashes his crop duster into a tree in heavy fog, it's not very suspicious.
I don't understand why you are saying conspiracy theorists are making up crap just because they don't have a conspiracy theory on every incident that happens in the world.

Personally I'd find that quite suspicious - as Siberia isn't a crop producing area & therefore Igor wouldn't have any need for a crop dusting aeroplane. Futhermore, who crop dusts in heavy fog anyway.... There's something more to this story.

[Buttnekid]

Peter B *** LOL

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Personally I'd find that quite suspicious - as Siberia isn't a crop producing area & therefore Igor wouldn't have any need for a crop dusting aeroplane. Futhermore, who crop dusts in heavy fog anyway.... There's something more to this story.

Good work on completely ignore the point of my post and just picking apart the unnecessary parts. I only used Siberia in my 'story' because the post I quoted made a reference to Russia, and Siberia is often made out to be that place far, far away from everything where nothing important ever happens. Sorry that it was not 100% accurate.
The idea behind the post was to point out when a small plane crashes and there is a quite obvious cause, people all over the world aren't going to be looking deep into every detail looking for 'flaws' in the story.

If you want a more realistic story, lets just say a weekend pilot takes his plane out for a fly, weather suddenly turns bad and he stuffs up the landing and crashes, people aren't going to be looking too deeply into that. It doesn't affect anyone majorly outside of that pilots family and friends.

But when a commercial airliner goes missing without a trace, or some other major disaster happens, it's going to raise a bit more interest and people will be looking at every detail in the story.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Ben73

But when a commercial airliner goes missing without a trace, or some other major disaster happens, it's going to raise a bit more interest and people will be looking at every detail in the story.

The example I made was the dozens of 100+ fatality commercial airliner crashes in the history of jet aviation. Why aren't they all conspiracies?

In fact why is it that mainly American plane crashes garner most conspiracy theories but not, say, African airlines? African airlines not worthy of being a conspiracy?