Malaysian Airways Flight 370

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Has this theory been proven, was his intention politically driven.



Southern Indian Ocean...Calm seas.

I was under the impression that this area was not somewhere described as having calm seas, in fact, quite the contrary.

Nothing has been proven, point taken. It's my theory that I've had for about 8 months. Not much has changed since, either has my theory...or we can call it an opinion.....based on what facts were available at the time and not rushing off to a nut-farm website that claims a UFO took it.

As for the Indian Ocean, it's definitely one of the most treacherous bodies of water, but can be calm on occasions too. I guess if they can deploy and extract ROV`s, then a planes belly could skim across the top without breaking apart from hitting a 7 meter wave.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Nothing has been proven, point taken. It's my theory that I've had for about 8 months. Not much has changed since, either has my theory...or we can call it an opinion.....based on what facts were available at the time and not rushing off to a nut-farm website that claims a UFO took it.

As for the Indian Ocean, it's definitely one of the most treacherous bodies of water, but can be calm on occasions too. I guess if they can deploy and extract ROV`s, then a planes belly could skim across the top without breaking apart from hitting a 7 meter wave.

So what your saying is that in all probability a man has decided to give his own life, and that of hundreds of people in order to make a Government look suspect.
he takes off, kicks his co pilot out of the cockpit, shuts down all communication, flies around for 8 hours and then after all that, knowing he is about to drown in the middle of nowhere, he carefully touches down, perfectly timed on calm seas and silently sinks below the surface taking every item on board with him and leaving no trace.

That is if you believe it is intact on the sea floor and the reason why not 1 piece of debris has been located after 8 months and an intensive search.

My theory involves a shift in control of the plane and a touchdown on land somewhere.

I believe that because there would be no miracle landing and no debris to be found.

Now, considering the other coincidental parts of the story, the Iranian passengers with stolen passports, The passengers who booked in but didn't travel, the mystery contents of the cargo hold.

Which of the above theories is most probable?

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So what your saying is that in all probability a man has decided to give his own life, and that of hundreds of people in order to make a Government look suspect.
he takes off, kicks his co pilot out of the cockpit, shuts down all communication, flies around for 8 hours and then after all that, knowing he is about to drown in the middle of nowhere, he carefully touches down, perfectly timed on calm seas and silently sinks below the surface taking every item on board with him and leaving no trace.

That is if you believe it is intact on the sea floor and the reason why not 1 piece of debris has been located after 8 months and an intensive search.

My theory involves a shift in control of the plane and a touchdown on land somewhere.

I believe that because there would be no miracle landing and no debris to be found.

Now, considering the other coincidental parts of the story, the Iranian passengers with stolen passports, The passengers who booked in but didn't travel, the mystery contents of the cargo hold.

Which of the above theories is most probable?

Well it is far-fetched just like any other theory, but one thing in my favour is the current search zone. Why have they been searching for the plane in that part of the Indian Ocean for the last 8 or so months...for kicks?

People keep asking where the debris is. What debris? If the fuselage didn't rupture....then what debris could there possibly be? The engines are long gone heading towards the ocean floor, there's no fuel left anyway, the only other thing that would leave a trail would be hydraulic fluid, and that would have disappeared well before and search teams got in the area.

As for the stolen passports, and people checking in and not boarding or whatever it was, that happens dozens of times per day. Those Iranians were just looking for work in Europe, and airline companies said it wasn't that uncommon for people to go walk about pre-flight.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Well it is far-fetched just like any other theory, but one thing in my favour is the current search zone. Why have they been searching for the plane in that part of the Indian Ocean for the last 8 or so months...for kicks?

When they first went looking for the plane in the Southern Indian ocean they claimed it was some 2000+ miles southwest of Perth according to their 'Data'.
Only problem was, for the plane to have reached where they were looking it would had to have flown further than its fuel load could take it.
I posted this conclusion in this thread after doing an hours research into typical fuel for flight plan scenarios, considering the fact that prior to the disappearance it was an unremarkable flight and would have received regular practice prior to take off.
Within 24 hrs they redirected the search teams a thousand k's further north to a place where it could actually have reached under the conditions which they claim it was subject to.
Now im no aviation expert, nor would I be as silly as to think my conclusions rated a mention, but c'mon how can you have faith in the people running the show if they were making blatant errors from the start.

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

People keep asking where the debris is. What debris? If the fuselage didn't rupture....then what debris could there possibly be? The engines are long gone heading towards the ocean floor, there's no fuel left anyway, the only other thing that would leave a trail would be hydraulic fluid, and that would have disappeared well before and search teams got in the area.

That's if it indeed was successfully landed on the Ocean.
Were not talking a calm Hudson river and decorated Pilot with extensive glider expertise like Chesley Sullenberger here, this is a man on the brink of committing murder suicide on an epic level whilst touching down in one of the harshest climates on the face of the Earth, put it into perspective.
Miracle landings on water and Capt Sully's don't come along too often, this really was a special flight for so many stars to line up.
And lets not forget, the whole ideal behind the 'Pilot did it' scenario is that he wanted the whole plane to disappear. All he had to do was dip a wing and all bets are off because it would have ripped apart and been found in no time.
He must have been extremely confident to say the least.

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

As for the stolen passports, and people checking in and not boarding or whatever it was, that happens dozens of times per day. Those Iranians were just looking for work in Europe, and airline companies said it wasn't that uncommon for people to go walk about pre-flight.

Your probably right, but how often do Iranian passengers with stolen passports, luggage without its owners and undisclosed manifest items all appear on a plane that goes missing without a trace...

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Your probably right, but how often do Iranian passengers with stolen passports, luggage without its owners and undisclosed manifest items all appear on a plane that goes missing without a trace...

Bingo.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Your probably right, but how often do Iranian passengers with stolen passports, luggage without its owners and undisclosed manifest items all appear on a plane that goes missing without a trace...

I`d say never. No sooner had it been released that Iranian passengers boarded with stolen passports that people automatically assumed hijacking or 'bombs', same with people checking luggage in with no intention of boarding, again more bombs. As with what was in the cargo hold I have know idea. Is it common practice for airline companies to release information about the goods it was carrying to the public, in the event of a crash etc if its not some form of Hazardous material? I thought only the immediate investigators would be handed a manifest. I havn't looked into that so maybe you or someone else can shed some light onto that for me.

As for the pilot, there can only be a slight comparison between him and that guy that landed on the hudson. Different planes, circumstances and experience. The pilot from MH370 is no dud, he`s clocked 20,000 hours since the early 80`s. But it is possible for planes to land intact on water if the conditions are perfect and its controlled by skilled pilot.

In regards to the search area, heaps of variables here. Firstly that UK company that monitored the engines, wasn't sure if the last ping it got back was the engines running out of fuel at altitude, or the engine hitting the water. Secondly, it was almost impossible at the time to gauge the pilots exact maneuvers, especially after he disabled everything. You simply cant work out a flight path from A to B with great accuracy when you don't know what speed and altitude a plane it travelling at. This said plane was flying low at certain stages trying to avoid radar detection. Now when a commercial Jet flies at sea-level for an extended period of time, its fuel load diminishes rapidly from the thicker air/ more drag than at 40,000 feet...so that would have to have been added into anyone's calculations. And another thing worth noting is that most commercial airliners, travelling at cruising speed/height, can glide for 20 minutes give or take even once all engines have completely stopped. Now that could be an extra 150-200 clicks in any direction. I didn't attempt to calculate anything like that simply because I couldn't, but I just picked the deepest part of that ocean, almost 8 kilometers down.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

I`d say never. No sooner had it been released that Iranian passengers boarded with stolen passports that people automatically assumed hijacking or 'bombs', same with people checking luggage in with no intention of boarding, again more bombs. As with what was in the cargo hold I have know idea. Is it common practice for airline companies to release information about the goods it was carrying to the public, in the event of a crash etc if its not some form of Hazardous material? I thought only the immediate investigators would be handed a manifest. I havn't looked into that so maybe you or someone else can shed some light onto that for me.

Well that's my point, if this was an unremarkable flight up until it went missing you could say fair enough, these things can and do happen. But when you start to dig into the events surrounding this one flight, amongst thousands, it must raise some questions.
Its not just the passengers and luggage, there are a number of things surrounding this flight which raise the eyebrow when put into context.
With regards to the manifest, I believe it has been released but has omission's which they made prior to release that leave question marks.

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

As for the pilot, there can only be a slight comparison between him and that guy that landed on the hudson. Different planes, circumstances and experience. The pilot from MH370 is no dud, he`s clocked 20,000 hours since the early 80`s. But it is possible for planes to land intact on water if the conditions are perfect and its controlled by skilled pilot.

No doubt it is possible, and Sully proved it possible. But the scene surrounding what is referred to as 'The Miracle On The Hudson' where a seriously experienced pilot with decades of flying under his belt either as a fighter pilot or as a Commercial pilot and extensive glider training managed to land a commercial aircraft on a body of water is not something that happens every day.
I doubt even Chesley Sullenberger could have put MH370 on the Indian Ocean without leaving a trace.

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

In regards to the search area, heaps of variables here. Firstly that UK company that monitored the engines, wasn't sure if the last ping it got back was the engines running out of fuel at altitude, or the engine hitting the water. Secondly, it was almost impossible at the time to gauge the pilots exact maneuvers, especially after he disabled everything. You simply cant work out a flight path from A to B with great accuracy when you don't know what speed and altitude a plane it travelling at. This said plane was flying low at certain stages trying to avoid radar detection. Now when a commercial Jet flies at sea-level for an extended period of time, its fuel load diminishes rapidly from the thicker air/ more drag than at 40,000 feet...so that would have to have been added into anyone's calculations. And another thing worth noting is that most commercial airliners, travelling at cruising speed/height, can glide for 20 minutes give or take even once all engines have completely stopped. Now that could be an extra 150-200 clicks in any direction. I didn't attempt to calculate anything like that simply because I couldn't, but I just picked the deepest part of that ocean, almost 8 kilometers down.

My basic calculations allowed for a maximum distance considering the information disclosed about its movements until west of the Malacca Straight. Any increase in fuel burn would shorten its range, not increase it.
It could never have been in the vicinity of Port Au Francais which is where they said it was at first. It would have needed to fly directly there from where it lost contact and we know that is not the case.

Im not saying im right either, its just an opinion, but it would seem that the official story contains more fiction than some of the conspiracy theories going around.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

But the scene surrounding what is referred to as 'The Miracle On The Hudson' where a seriously experienced pilot with decades of flying under his belt either as a fighter pilot or as a Commercial pilot and extensive glider training managed to land a commercial aircraft on a body of water is not something that happens every day.
I doubt even Chesley Sullenberger could have put MH370 on the Indian Ocean without leaving a trace.

The Pilot of MH370 was no trainee! Is Sully the only pilot possible of such a ditching? Yeah sure he`s a hero, we all know that, his medals and honours state that. But given the same opportunity, how many other pilots worldwide could pull that off with the same plane? I`ll say quite a few(and some would end in complete disaster). Secondly he wasn't qualified to fly a 777 and the pilot of MH370 was' an examiner qualified to conduct simulator tests for other pilots'.......that usually means he`s right up there with the best and knows the 777`s capabilities in every given scenario imaginable like the back of his hand, either in a simulator or in a 777 itself. So If anyone could pull off a Sully landing on a calm see, I guess his chances are higher than most

[Bobman]

If this plane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Bo..._disappearance can disappear 200km from Japan in 1979 and not a trace be found to date then it's very believable that a plane can disappear in a much larger body of water as we see with MH370.

Some people don't even know about that Varig 707 or the ex-FedEx 727 in 2003.

[cram_it_frog]

I think if you sat down a made a list of all the aircraft that went missing since day one that list would be a long one

At 2:10 p.m., five U.S. Navy Avenger torpedo-bombers comprising Flight 19 take off from the Ft. Lauderdale Naval Air Station in Florida on a routine three-hour training mission. Flight 19 was scheduled to take them due east for 120 miles, north for 73 miles, and then back over a final 120-mile leg that would return them to the naval base. They never returned.

Alton Glenn Miller (March 1, 1904 – missing in action[1] December 15, 1944) was an American big band musician, arranger, composer, and bandleader in the swing era. He was the best-selling recording artist from 1939 to 1943, leading one of the best known big bands. Miller's notable recordings include "In the Mood", "Moonlight Serenade", "Pennsylvania 6-5000", "Chattanooga Choo Choo", "A String of Pearls", "At Last", "(I've Got a Gal In) Kalamazoo", "American Patrol", "Tuxedo Junction", "Elmer's Tune", and "Little Brown Jug".[2] While he was traveling to entertain U.S. troops in France during World War II, Glenn Miller's aircraft disappeared in bad weather over the English Channel.

this is two from www2 and the list will go on and on and yes the conspiracy guy s have gone overboard on these two some say there was UFO involved in the Bermuda triangle if the first one

2nd one they say he went through what is known as a bomb dump area

during www2 if a bombing run failed or aircraft had to return to base they had to dump any unused bombs in a set area marked on a map in the middle of english channel and he may have been hit but that

it many of the cased simple things like fuel or bad map reading was to blame and I am sure when they do find Flight 370 it will be some thing simple and it will all make sense

[Charliewool]

Be great to be able to drain the ocean for a couple of weeks or so... Would find some pretty awesome stuff!
Might even recover my Nikonos camera I lost off Vanuatu?

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Be great to be able to drain the ocean for a couple of weeks or so... Would find some pretty awesome stuff!
Might even recover my Nikonos camera I lost off Vanuatu?

Haha, I've thought of that fantasy before too!

Imagine what would be out there. Gold, various wrecks. Ancient life forms?

There is so much mystery in our oceans!

[cram_it_frog]

there was a show on austar few months back a brand new specialist wreck recovery company called Odyssey Marine exploration doing super deep dives using robot technology

They pulled up millions of $ of silver from a wreck and they did find a huge amount of gold but the Spanish gov went to court and took it off of them

but this company are reaching depths that ten years ago were just a dream and they are finding some huge amounts of gold silver and other items

but there running costs are huge ie they made a tv show to help with costs

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by Bobman

If this plane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Bo..._disappearance can disappear 200km from Japan in 1979 and not a trace be found to date then it's very believable that a plane can disappear in a much larger body of water as we see with MH370.

Some people don't even know about that Varig 707 or the ex-FedEx 727 in 2003.

What is the ex-FedEx 727 incident you're referring to? Do you have a link?

[FPV414]

Disregard - "On May 25, 2003, a 727-200, registration number N844AA, was stolen from Quatro de Fevereiro Airport in Luanda, Angola. The aircraft has not been seen since it took off."

[cram_it_frog]

Does any one rember the hunt for Red october and at the end there is a scene where the Russian guy says he has another problem

And the reply was you lost another submarine


Well looks like that was Malaysian Airways reply last night

So will they find this one or will that be two aircraft Malaysian Airways have lost


tell you one thing there is not enough money in this world to pay me to fly with this company

Australian P 3 Orion aircraft is now on stand by


So the next Australian budget will be spent entirely on searching for missing aircraft might be the new of the day

What is going on they are saying the aircraft of today are the best technology can buy and make so who is making the mistakes are the aircraft to complex for todays pilots

where do we go now

same as before
like a drone air aircraft at least we will know what happens

not sure

[Dash_XR]

It's not Malaysian Airways plane.

[cram_it_frog]

Dash_XR is the budget version owned by Malaysian Airways

I may be wrong but a few reports say that

In August 2011, AirAsia agreed to form an alliance with Malaysia Airlines by means of a share swap.[10] The alliance was struck down by the Malaysian government, in effect voiding the agreement of both airlines.

[AlanD]

My research suggests that AirAsia is a low cost Indonesian carrier with links to the Malaysian budget carrier of the same name who have a minority shareholding.

Like QANTAS in OZ where the QANTAS sales act prevents a majority of shares being owned by non Australian Nationals the Indonesian Government requires 50.1% shareholding in Indonesian AirAsia within Indonesia.

Not that these niceties help the 162 souls on board since by now the aircraft will not be airborne.

My thoughts are with the relatives of those who may be lost.

[cram_it_frog]

My thoughts are with the relatives of those who my be lost


yes I agree with that

[csv8]

strange?? no pings from black boxes ???

[cram_it_frog]

also this is supposed to be a busy place no one so far has reported any thing strange

sound so similar to flight 370

[CoupeKing]

Its only been about 24 hours since it went missing, half of those hours were pitch black and all planes grounded due to bad weather. Java sea is tiny compared to the bigger oceans, but its still a massive body of water to search. As for the black box pings, you pretty much need to be on top of them to pick-up the signal, even in shallow water. Probably spot wreckage first then zone in and hunt for the black boxes as they do.

[cram_it_frog]

CoupeKing I can only hope that is what happens

[Bobman]

Guys, it took 10 days to find anything in the Adam Air 737 crash in 2007 in a similar, yet smaller area.

[nstg8a]

heard on the wireless just before that an Australian aircraft may have spotted wreckage

[nuthin' fancy]

Let's stick to 370 here, there is another thread for the Air Asia flight.

[cram_it_frog]

Tomorrow is a one year since MH 370 went missing and still no news totally amazing

The deputy prim minister has said that they cannot look for ever so they must be thinking of pulling the pin

I wonder what the bill so far is any geusses

how many millions has been spent

I feel for the family's tomorrow will be a hard day for many of them

but you never know what is around the corner in the news today a girl who was kidnapped in USA at birth 17 years ago has been reunited with her real mum

[jandj]

Can someone tell me why the Australian gov is paying to look for mh 370, has the airline pitched in for looking for there plane.
Shouldn't the search cost fall on the airline.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by jandj

Can someone tell me why the Australian gov is paying to look for mh 370, has the airline pitched in for looking for there plane.
Shouldn't the search cost fall on the airline.

Because it falls within Australia's search zone. Just as if a Qantas plane went missing of the coast of New Zealand, New Zealand would foot the bill for the search.

As for how much, if any, of the costs of being offset by MA I have no idea. Given their financial position Id doubt it's minimal.