HELP! I need reasons why a clevo is better than a windsor - Page 4

Gammaboy · 25-02-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

I happen to like the sound of my "vacuum cleaner".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...34718&q=winton

I wish my vacuum cleaner sounded like my clevo, i might clean more often....

GRNKPR · 25-02-2006, 08:16 PM

hey GAMMAGIRL can i join the illustrious 300 RWKW club or is it only for clevo s

philstoj · 25-02-2006, 08:43 PM

Hey phil, you might have to show these guys what your all cast iron "wheezer' can do

_2:
gammaboy's sig sums up yours quite nicely when you put yours in top gear, and give it a little rev and lay tracks the length of a 1/4 mile!! :sm_headba

mik · 25-02-2006, 09:16 PM

i read somewhere that clevelands came about because the windsor plants just could not keep up supply of engines , i like em both, would have either but the current one is the boss that would be my choice these days, but i always thought clevos were a bit nicer to work on ,just my 2c

GRNKPR · 25-02-2006, 09:18 PM

Clevos must have been good as they lasted 2 years in the us as Australians sometimes we take a little longer to comprehend

brenx · 25-02-2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

Clevos must have been good as they lasted 2 years in the us as Australians sometimes we take a little longer to comprehend

The US is just tight with pollution laws. They are also big GMC supporters. They didn't want to get whooped. Hence why the cleveland was banned from so many motorsports in the US. They just went too fast.

GRNKPR · 25-02-2006, 09:33 PM

my daddy always said never listen to a CLEVOHEAD as they are as braindead as the rest of em AMEN

xbgs351 · 25-02-2006, 09:56 PM

Clevelands were in production in the USA for 4 years and the 335 Series was in production for 14 years.

jcxr · 25-02-2006, 09:59 PM

hey Phil, who is your daddy? Ha Ha. Tried to find you at geelong last weekend. cheers john.

Group C · 25-02-2006, 09:59 PM

Only area I can think of that a Clev is better than a Win is the heads.
Early stuff we're talking here.
Hence why Ford used the Windsor block (that has a better oiling layout, revs better, is more compact and lighter), with Cleveland heads (that breathe like no tomorrow) to create the original BOSS 302 engine.

I've had both Windsor and Cleveland powered cars in the past.
Personally, the Clevelands just felt more like a tow car engine, and the Windsors had more of a 'race' engine feel.
The thought of a small, revvy 302 in a small engine bay is VERY nice :Up_to_som ...

And as said earlier, the yanks knew better than a Clev years ago.
Also, I think the old Windsor has proven itself by now, as the last 3 V8 Supercar championships will show...

all4ford · 25-02-2006, 10:03 PM

IMO i find the clevo to sound tough but rough! I prefer the sound of a windsor with a decent set of pipes. As far as technical reasoning goes, I'll stay out of it, cos i know f**k all compared to some of the knowledgable guys on here.

:

GRNKPR · 25-02-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcxr

hey Phil, who is your daddy? Ha Ha. Tried to find you at geelong last weekend. cheers john.

the man that was on top of mummy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was there near the stage had the xr race car and the 67 american sports coupe next to it and will be at FPV tomorrow in the origanal plant near the rotary club food stall

xbgs351 · 25-02-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Group C

Also, I think the old Windsor has proven itself by now, as the last 3 V8 Supercar championships will show...

They aren't Windsors.

GRNKPR · 25-02-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbgs351

They aren't Windsors.

the what are they

i know they are an svo block but WINDSOR sized and components

**Falcon Coupe** · 25-02-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

my daddy always said never listen to a CLEVOHEAD as they are as braindead as the rest of em AMEN

They must be, they pay a lot more for thier GT's than Windsor blokes.

:

svo347 · 25-02-2006, 10:23 PM

ford motorsport A4 block as used in v8sc is actually based on the windsor

Des · 26-02-2006, 02:19 AM

I'm not entering the arguement but have a question, besides my favourite older blocks are 1. Flathead, 2. Y-Block, 3. FE series.

I've been told that the old NASCAR blocks were based on the Aussie Clevo until Ford brought out the special blocks they use now. Was supposed to have something to do with tougher blocks because of our hotter conditions.
Is this true? And what's the current block based on?

Gammaboy · 26-02-2006, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

hey GAMMAGIRL can i join the illustrious 300 RWKW club or is it only for clevo s

Depends if that pussy little wheezer of yours can make the numbers...

toby123 · 26-02-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

I can't understand why in Australia we thought/think the Cleveland is a better engine then the Windsor. I guess its the same way people today think that the 5.4 Boss is a better engine then the Supercharged 4.6 in the SVT Cobra.

Compared to the Windsor V8, the Cleveland has absolutely no aftermarket support. Basically, using completley off-the-shelf parts, you can make a 2500 - 3000hp Windsor V8 race engine. There's an entire drag racing class dedicated to the Windsor V8... NMRA (National Mustang Racing Association) Pro 5.0. Bunch of 2000hp+ 6sec Windsor cars (with one or two guys using mod motors). The NMRA Pro 5.0 record is 6.671 @ 207.36mph (331.776km/h). The Record Can be seen here

Performance Ford Magazine Volume 4 Edition 7 has a 6sec Clevo powered EB Falcon drag car...McSweeney Racing's EB. It's, to my knowledge, the fastest Cleveland powered car in the world. It ran a best time of 6.89 @ 192mph (307.2km/h) in Top Doorslammer form. It currently runs in BB/AP trim.. with a best time of 6.923 @ 203.16mph (325.056km/h).

Now.. the Cleveland can be made EFI, just as the Windsor. The Windsor is an older engine then the Cleveland, so there is no reason that the Cleveland could not pass new EPA laws, especially if Ford wanted it to. The Cleveland was only ever featured in Falcon GT's as a performance engine. To my knowledge, most US cars either had a Windsor, a Big Block or a "Boss" engine.

For your average street car, it doesn't really matter if you're running a Cleveland or a Windsor. They'll both perform admirabley. However, once you're heading into the realm of extreme power and speed, I wouldn't touch a Cleveland. It would cost you twice that of a Windsor for the same result.

The McSweeney's have gone 6.59 @ 213mph also remember its only a little clevo at only 324 cubes making close to 2000hp....

Oh and I like Windsors and clevo's :P

TURBOTAXI · 26-02-2006, 07:42 AM

First let me say I have owned a 289 windsor, a 1993 EFI windsor, and I am lucky to still own one of the australian built 351 clevelands that made its way into the XD.

I Think they are all good.

I was however told once that Windsors are essentially a truck engine.

djjase · 26-02-2006, 03:24 PM

After market supply is more for windsor ???? well lets see let take the number of CRANE cams for each motor as an example

HYDRAULIC CAMS = Windsor = 3, Cleavland = 6
MECHANICAL CAMS = Windsor = 4 Cleavland = 7
HYDRAULIC ROLLER = Windsor = 4 Cleavland = 0

Simple maths show that there is a ИИИИ load more aftermarket stuff for Cleavlands than Windsor in Australia. Who gives a ИИИИ about the USA, we don't live there and neither does our cars.
Its simple - the 5ltr from the EB on don't rev, mine ran out at 4500 and thats with some porting on the heads. On the other hand the cleavland in my xa revs way past 6000 with only heads ported. The stroker 378 is in a league of its own, it goes past the 8000 on the GT tacko.
At the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste. As far as I am concerned as long as its a FORD and not a holden then who gives a flying ИИИИ.

SPK-250 · 26-02-2006, 07:09 PM

The McSweeny's used a fontana block i beleive, that was about 318 cubes. Now they use their own block i think? They make all their own rods and stuff too. All good if you got a ship load of money.

GRNKPR · 26-02-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Depends if that pussy little wheezer of yours can make the numbers...

it already has and with its next freshen up itll have more

know all about pussies dont you as you are sitting on yours

:

Gammaboy · 26-02-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

it already has and with its next freshen up itll have more

know all about pussies dont you as you are sitting on yours

:

Nope, you've got it all wrong. I'm sitting on a chair. I don't even own a cat.

Des · 26-02-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

I've been told that the old NASCAR blocks were based on the Aussie Clevo until Ford brought out the special blocks they use now. Was supposed to have something to do with tougher blocks because of our hotter conditions.
Is this true? And what's the current block based on?

Does anyone have an answer for this? I honestly don't know and would love to know what's what. Because whatever it is, to sit on the revs they did/do all day is pretty impressive.

**Falcon Coupe** · 26-02-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Des

Does anyone have an answer for this? I honestly don't know and would love to know what's what. Because whatever it is, to sit on the revs they did/do all day is pretty impressive.

The real answer is:
They are both good engines and the sky is the limit as far as mod's go, with the right money spent either engine will kick major ***, respective owners are passionate about what they have, that's why there will always be debate.
we all love our Ford V8's.

The cleveland has a huge following due to it's Bathurst success and the fact it was in the Legendary GT HO Phase 3.

Des · 27-02-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The real answer is:
They are both good engines and the sky is the limit as far as mod's go, with the right money spent either engine will kick major ***, respective owners are passionate about what they have, that's why there will always be debate.
we all love our Ford V8's.

The cleveland has a huge following due to it's Bathurst success and the fact it was in the Legendary GT HO Phase 3.

Agreed, just curious, that's all.

Steffo · 27-02-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby123

The McSweeney's have gone 6.59 @ 213mph also remember its only a little clevo at only 324 cubes making close to 2000hp....

Oh and I like Windsors and clevo's :P

That was an old post. This is a very old thread.

Gammaboy · 27-02-2006, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

This is a very old thread.

Possibly older than you Steffo.

LeMans · 27-02-2006, 12:59 AM

The early Windsors were perceived to be less reliable than the Clevos. (I say "perceived" because the Ford GT40 won the LeMans 24Hr race twice with a Windsor 302 (1968, 1969) which is far more demanding than any other circuit race, even Bathurst).

So when Ford Australia wanted more HP in the 70s they had to go more cubes (because that’s how you did it in those days) and the lighter Windsor was dropped for the reliability of the heavier Clevo.

Fast-forward to 2006. Comparing the two engines today is a totally different game. You want 600hp 7500 rpm and reliably out of a 302 Windsor? You got it! We have the technology and know-how. It might not be cheap, but in the end you will have one of the best capacity-per-weight pushrod engines ever built by anyone anywhere.

Just my view of the world :yeees: