Skills shortage again!!!

[vztrt]

As RG said. Its totally different to other forms of schools. They will lecture and you take it from there. I can understand when you have a teacher that isn't very good at speaking (mumblers, quiet voices, etc). But they give you the tools and you go from their. You'll learn alot more in the workforce....or at least your learnings will make more sense.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by snappy

There is a skills shortage but only from a employers point of view.

Much of the skills shortage is caused by employers not wanting to train staff. Where i work, they had NO apprentices at all, yet complained they couldn't get any qualified staff. There were none apprenticeships offered by any of the other 'major employers' in town. Once we got a new shop manager, he had to convince management that they could get qualified staff by simply training them. sure it takes four years for them to finish their apprenticeship, but you end up with a qualified tradesman. we now have about 4 apprentices in different trades.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by vztrt

As RG said. Its totally different to other forms of schools. They will lecture and you take it from there. I can understand when you have a teacher that isn't very good at speaking (mumblers, quiet voices, etc). But they give you the tools and you go from their. You'll learn alot more in the workforce....or at least your learnings will make more sense.

we all know how uni works, the point is there is little you can do when your lecturer is lazy/ a shifty or dodgy marker/ doesn't have time for their students. They just say, oh its your problem learn to work it out.
It could be a whole lot better, having a dodgy lecturer is like paying someone to poke you in the eye with a stick, its annoyingly pointless but you learn something from it anyway. Probably not the lesson you were paying to learn though.
My point is, you can't just say the onus to learning is 100% on the student, without the tools and materials supplied by the lecturer you might as well never attend uni.

[scoupedy]

If i was going to do it again i wouldn't attend one lecture- all they do is confuse you and give really easy examples (when you can actually understand them)so students don't ask any questions. here is some 1999 figures 3 contact hours per week 13 week semesters= 39 hours which is roughly $17/hour each x 160 = $2720/hour and they can't get people that can convey an idea or speak english

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

If i was going to do it again i wouldn't attend one lecture- all they do is confuse you and give really easy examples (when you can actually understand them)so students don't ask any questions. here is some 1999 figures 3 contact hours per week 13 week semesters= 39 hours which is roughly $17/hour each x 160 = $2720/hour and they can't get people that can convey an idea or speak english

does that $2720/hr that you have dedicated to finding a suitable lecturer include the building and maintaining of the university, cost of insurances, utilities, money dedicated to research and development? all of these costs add up quickly when running a business. and the people running your university are running it like a business, minimum outlay, maximum return.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

does that $2720/hr that you have dedicated to finding a suitable lecturer include the building and maintaining of the university, cost of insurances, utilities, money dedicated to research and development? all of these costs add up quickly when running a business. and the people running your university are running it like a business, minimum outlay, maximum return.

most of the money they gain from enrolments goes into research funding rather than other costs. A uni is only as good as its research.

[schnoods]

I am loving the skills shortage to be honest.

In my field of work, GOOD labour is hard to find and finding alot is harder and more costly.

So to make the shortfall they bring workers from indonesia, phillipines and China.

As english isnt so much as a verbal barrier, rather a communication problem/ inconvinience and often a loss in translation there are mistakes, miscommunication and simply a "I dont know". Mistakes are made and it is costly and then it pays to use good labour in the first place.

Most companies think alike and now they will pay to keep good men, especially because of the labour shortage, more modules for major construction are being made overseas and simply not fitting up when it arrives.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

does that $2720/hr that you have dedicated to finding a suitable lecturer include the building and maintaining of the university, cost of insurances, utilities, money dedicated to research and development? all of these costs add up quickly when running a business. and the people running your university are running it like a business, minimum outlay, maximum return.

my point exactly they are running it like a business not a Educational facility, so they make it easier for internationals because as someone pointed out they pay alot more- and i would have thought that state/federal budjets would pay a little. im sure you could get a professional in most areas for around $500/hr if not all of them

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

my point exactly they are running it like a business not a Educational facility, so they make it easier for internationals because as someone pointed out they pay alot more- and i would have thought that state/federal budjets would pay a little. im sure you could get a professional in most areas for around $500/hr if not all of them

Do you have any idea of the costs involved in running, maintaining and keeping up to code a facility of that nature.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by RG

Do you have any idea of the costs involved in running, maintaining and keeping up to code a facility of that nature.

Yeah much easier too just bring some poms in-

[Green X]

[QUOTE=schnoods]
more modules for major construction are being made overseas and simply not fitting up when it arrives.[/QUOTE

hahah, yep know S*&T.

I tell ya what they are going to have fun on Gorgan, spent a year on woodsides PLUTO, the ammount of rework we did on Gas modules was BS makes you wonder what the Q/A team did in thiland. Then you read in the Newspaper worker productivity is to blame for cost and timetable blowouts what a Crock!

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Yeah much easier too just bring some poms in-

What does that have to do with anything?

[schnoods]

[QUOTE=Green X]

Originally Posted by schnoods

more modules for major construction are being made overseas and simply not fitting up when it arrives.[/QUOTE

hahah, yep know S*&T.

I tell ya what they are going to have fun on Gorgan, spent a year on woodsides PLUTO, the ammount of rework we did on Gas modules was BS makes you wonder what the Q/A team did in thiland. Then you read in the Newspaper worker productivity is to blame for cost and timetable blowouts what a Crock!

Happened on so many sites with reworkings, Ravensthorpe and Boddington copped the same stuff as well, pluto was always going to be a tight schedule and surprise surprise it will be delayed due to reworkings, gorgon will be a nightmare.

Worse parts is in the signing of these contracts is that they have been signed in as certain modules MUST be made overseas as their costing permits. Unions are fine with it, they know it will be made up when nothing fits.

As they say "Efficiency causes Redundancy".

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by RG

What does that have to do with anything?

Arh DUE TO THE SKILLS SHORTAGE THE GOVERNMENT WANT TO BRING IN SKILLED MIGRANTS FOR THE MINING SECTOR

Its easier to bring qualified (ha) poms into Australia than to train Australians thats what its GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING

In the last 5 years they have brought in over 35,000 Poms just for the mining sector do you think they will go back after the arsse falls out ?

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

Arh DUE TO THE SKILLS SHORTAGE THE GOVERNMENT WANT TO BRING IN SKILLED MIGRANTS FOR THE MINING SECTOR

Its easier to bring qualified (ha) poms into Australia than to train Australians thats what its GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING

In the last 5 years they have brought in over 35,000 Poms just for the mining sector do you think they will go back after the arsse falls out ?

If their work visa expires I'd say they would go back.

I think the problem has a lot to do with lazy Australian's who won't move to where the work is. Abbot suggested it and got ridiculed for it, yet people are willing to come from other countries for the work. There are too many here who want everything for nothing.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by RG

If their work visa expires I'd say they would go back.

I think the problem has a lot to do with lazy Australian's who won't move to where the work is. Abbot suggested it and got ridiculed for it, yet people are willing to come from other countries for the work. There are too many here who want everything for nothing.

Nail, head, hit

[Fireblade]

Yes, a lazy society we are breeding.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

we are breeding.

I would but i cant be stuffed.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Yes, a lazy society we are breeding.

yeah yeah, blame the younger generation, its not the first time its been done, your fathers said the same of you.

[Interceptor]

i cant speak for you guys, but it gives me the irrits something fierce that we're now importing skilled and even semi skilled labour for 2 reasons

1: a "multi skilling" policy and mindset so highly praised by government and buisness for years untill the lack of skilled, specialised workers became a obvious problem

2: the willingness of government and business to hire skilled workers from overseas as a cheap bandaid than to actually train a future workforce, i know its cheaper, but its not doing the country any good, but hey, what else can you expect from todays politicians who see no further than the next election

for all the people saying its not as easy as youd think getting a job on a mine as a truck driver, for too many it is, especially with the new preference for hiring females, and a much denied preference for the mining companies and contractors to hire cleanskins from the suburbs......

fwiw, I'm OHS ticketed for forklift, bobcat, loader, dozer, scraper and excavator, plus i have some time operating dump trucks in a quarry as well as road rollers on roadwork projects, and what really stunned me was when i was quietly told by the supervisor for one contract construction/earthmoving company "The best thing you can do is move to, or at least get a postal address in Mackay, Rockhampton or even further away"

hence my known loathing for outsiders who come to the big $$ jobs only to *** off back to where they come from because they hate the place where they get thier money......

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

for all the people saying its not as easy as youd think getting a job on a mine as a truck driver, for too many it is, especially with the new preference for hiring females, and a much denied preference for the mining companies and contractors to hire cleanskins from the suburbs......

After seeing what the so-called male drivers do to the big mining trucks I understand why they have a preference to females. Jeez what I see at work with our CAT wheel loaders getting thrashed (quite easy to get the licence BTW) and knowing how much they cost to repair I would choose whoever will keep my downtime to a minimum and reduce my repair bills.

[RG]

Originally Posted by xy500

yeah yeah, blame the younger generation, its not the first time its been done, your fathers said the same of you.

I'm saying the exact same thing and I'm not exactly old, 28 to be precise.

Another thing I have noticed is the "victim syndrome" of many people lately. Everyone is a victim of circumstance which makes things "too hard" apparently.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by xy500

yeah yeah, blame the younger generation, its not the first time its been done, your fathers said the same of you.

Actually no, my Father didn't say the same thing about me, he considered what I went through as a teenager with a family torn a part by illness and death and my own s****y circumstances that came with this and thinks I have done damn well to be where I am after all of this. I'm also raising my own son with a work ethic that comes with wanting the better things in life that you have to work damn hard for. I am a manager at my work and have been for the last year after doing the hard yards to get here, it is apparent with the younger guys we seem to be getting here on a regular basis that they want the money but not have to work for it, they rag on me because I have the nice car and the supposedly cushy job but they haven't seen what I have had to do to get myself here, I could of quite easily given up with my depression stemming from my family issues as a teenager and I have not even once used it to quit and say it is all too hard. I want the finer things in life because I can and I work damn hard to get it.

Don't get me wrong there are young ones that want to work and I personally know a few of them but they also have done the hard yards in study and that sort of thing and not sponged off the parents or centrelink but I also know quite a few that do sponge.

I'm 33 so don't consider myself too old yet.

[Airmon]

Mate this is really not the thread I wanted to read!

I'm in the same boat, Im struggling my way through an Engineering degree, working 30hour weekends so I can keep the car on the road to get to uni and back (2 hour round trip). I know how you feel, I feel rooted 24/7, which doesn't bother me too much, but I still get hit with 'lazy uni student' stereotype which is very frustrating.

I do find some of the lecturers hard to understand, some are terrible and just read off the notes, but on the same token I have some awesome lecturers who are extremely good and are very helpful, so I can't complain on that front really.
I have noticed since I've started my degree the number of international students has doubled if not more. To the point where accomodation in the area will be "room for rent, Mandarin/Japanease/etc speaking only" or the add just wont be in English! The influx has pushed the price of accomodation up in the area aswell.
But on the same token, I figure if I have difficulty understanding a lecturer who has a heavy accent, it must be 10x harder for the international students to understand him.

I've been looking for a better job closer to uni but also get hit alot with the 'someone with more experience was chosen for the position'. I can't blame them I suppose, why hire someone with no experience for the same money as someone with lots, but I'm still hopeful I'll catch a break.
I know alot of people on Ausstudy and other benefits, but I can't bring myself to do that, there are enough people at uni at the moment who are benefits and spend there free time drinking and going out only to come to uni and stuff around in lectures. How they still pass is beyond me. As long as I'm able I'll be looking for work, but working all the time yet still having no money to do anything wears you down after a few years.
Only thing to do is keep on keepin on, and hope that in 5 years time I'll look back and it will all be worth it.

[Fireblade]

Good on you Airmon for doing the hard yards now in study and working part time to get by, as I said it is not all and most of the good ones I know have all been through uni, its the ones straight on to centrelink fresh out of school and bum around that gets me going.

You reap what you sow and the hard yards will pay off in the end, you just have to be patient and flexible to get what you want.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Airmon

I have noticed since I've started my degree the number of international students has doubled if not more. To the point where accomodation in the area will be "room for rent, Mandarin/Japanease/etc speaking only" or the add just wont be in English! The influx has pushed the price of accomodation up in the area aswell.

You'll find because the funding for Uni's has been reduced dramatically and full fee paying students keeps them going. The uni's warned that this would happen when the funding was being cut. Even with the increase of HEX fees and the reduction of the discount if you pay up-front (was a great way to save 25% of your hex fees) the amount of international students has had to go up.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Good on you Airmon for doing the hard yards now in study and working part time to get by, as I said it is not all and most of the good ones I know have all been through uni, its the ones straight on to centrelink fresh out of school and bum around that gets me going.

You reap what you sow and the hard yards will pay off in the end, you just have to be patient and flexible to get what you want.

For someone who has been to uni and all that, you seem to know little about how centrelink works. You can't bum off centrelink anymore, its been quite a while since you could. They're very strict on parental means, and working alongside centrelink. Then provided you actually can jump through the hoops; usually only if you have worked full time for at least a year, the payments they offer wouldn't even cover rent in a share house.
While I've been at uni I claimed centrelink alongside working various jobs, which usually meant I didn't get any centrelink anyway. But your no hero just because you didn't claim, just means you're to silly or too proud to apply for a payment you are eligible for, which you will later repay.
So it'd be nice if people didnt talk about recieving payments as sponging.

And I'll say it once more, paying out on the younger/older generation gets you no-where. Every older generation says the younger generation is lazy, every younger generation says the older generation is out of touch etc. Its been going on longer than any of us have been around. How about we stop the blame game and realise we're all in the same boat! Good jobs are still hard to come by, and life is hard work. Some of you old blokes could well handle to throw a young bloke a bone occasionally, and in return the young blokes could do to respect their elders, and the hard yards they've put in to get where they are.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by RG

If their work visa expires I'd say they would go back.

I think the problem has a lot to do with lazy Australian's who won't move to where the work is. Abbot suggested it and got ridiculed for it, yet people are willing to come from other countries for the work. There are too many here who want everything for nothing.

So your saying I'm lazy eh started working at 11 had two jobs at 17 spent 5 years working and studying with only two weeks holiday in five years and no help from Austudy.
NOT all unsucessfull people are lazy and NOT all sucessfull people are hard working most i meet are just plain lucky or know someone

[dave289]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

So your saying I'm lazy eh started working at 11 had two jobs at 17 spent 5 years working and studying with only two weeks holiday in five years and no help from Austudy.
NOT all unsucessfull people are lazy and NOT all sucessfull people are hard working most i meet are just plain lucky or know someone

started working at 11 ? that sounds a bit harsh. wot country were you born in?

sounds like you need a career change ,mate.

[RG]

Originally Posted by scoupedy

So your saying I'm lazy eh started working at 11 had two jobs at 17 spent 5 years working and studying with only two weeks holiday in five years and no help from Austudy.
NOT all unsucessfull people are lazy and NOT all sucessfull people are hard working most i meet are just plain lucky or know someone

I wonder how you came to the conclusion that my post was a direct attack on you?

Attitude issues?