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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#91 | |||
Powered by Marshall
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
Thats why Ford Aus do not need to invest in a diesel Falcon. Because as I have said previously, it already exists, its engineering is already paid for, and it works. Ford Aus should therefore be concentrating their deveolpment efforts and budget on LPG and leaving diesel as it stands in the product mix. I love the Ford brand and have all my life. But if they dont get this right, the Aussie falcon is dead. It makes no global sense, and it has strong competitors within its own brand. The carbon tax will come with a lot of stings attached that dictate non green cars will be penalised and that means if its not LPG, its going to be penalised. Thats another kick the Falcon just cant take. So listen up Ford. Stop dicking aound and get a great LPG powered Falcon on the road asap. Oh wait, you already have. Good work. Now forget diesel and market the **** off the thing!
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#92 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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A Diesel Falcon may just open up the doors to the Euro market - something they could really do with at the moment.
G6ETd - the European market would love it. |
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#93 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#94 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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that means the oldest most common cars on the road are EF Falcon and VS Commodore. So, 80% of the vehicles on the road are basically less than 12 years old... |
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#95 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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But you are right, the strong dollar relative to most other currencies makes most export deals for Aussie vehicle out of the question. I doubt sending Titanium diesel Territorys and Uber Falcon diesels to UK would be justifyable but I could be just as wrong too.... |
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#96 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Merceedes-benz charge a $30,000 premium for this engine relative to the base engines in the revised C Class range.
I had an awful lot of problems with the diesel particulate filter blocking in my Merc which uses a slightly earlier generation of this engine making 173KW and 540nm. Ford Au are better to stick to their knitting and work on on-going refinements to their world class inline six which is a brilliant and very inexpensive engine....my 2 cents |
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#97 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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#98 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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One thing, have you ever tried to overtake a semi in a LHD car on a single lane highway without a front seat passenger assisting you? I have and.....well, it really sharpens up your reaction time. |
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#99 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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#100 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brisvegas QLD
Posts: 1,166
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BMW make a 3 litre turbo diesel sports car. Expensive but damn quick. In laws have a 3 litre x5 Td. Quite surprising performance, sub 9/100 economy
Wonder if the ranger 3 litre engine Would fit? (not the 2.5) they have tons of balls
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#101 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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#102 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Overtaking as you say would require rearning and practice not unlike backing a trailer or reverse parking in a van or driving in mud or many other subskills required to drive but not ever tested.... |
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#103 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 161
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#104 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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In a world that's either at or very close to peak oil it looks like a no brainer to me. Why rely on expensive imported oil to distill into diesel ? Diesel's are very expensive to service, the pzizo injectors are limited life items and extremly expensive to replace..little things like that get forgotten and in this crazy world were all people seem to concentrate on is the litres per 100 km's the overall cost of ownership seems to somehow get overlooked....and don't even start me on the massive 6 month fight I had with Mercedes-benz about my blocking diesel particulate filter, what an absolute bloody nightmare.... enough said. |
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#105 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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No, you really must try it sometime behind a B Double my friend or with a terrified passenger that's begging not to even try. |
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#106 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,701
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How many times are new diesel car buyers going to be replacing their injectors, fuel pumps or particulate filters?
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#107 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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#108 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 565
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#109 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,252
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"I know its off topic here, but I think the Falcons we drive now are far too advanced and techy compared to what the average buyer wants. ZF 6 speeds are awesome, but I wonder if the average buyer knows its costs $1000 to service and flush the oil when they buy the car. Or that spark plugs are $20 each. Or if you chip/scratch the alloy lower control arm, its unservicable and dangerous and needs to be replaed at the cost of $500 per side. Or the offset of their pretty alloy wheels allows them to buckle easily. Or the front discs on an XR6T/G6ET are something like $280 a side. It's the kind of expense i'd expect in something BMW or Merc."
$1000 for a trans service!.... Unservicable control arms at $500 each!... Oh dear... i'm having seconds thoughts already! Falcons are supposed to be cheap, reliable, and dependable.... So now even the trusty Falcon has gone too far.... Not happy Ford! ![]() |
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#110 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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replacement lower arms, warped discs, and out of round alloy wheels. I would be interested to know whether you personally have had the misfortune of one or all of these occurrences or are you suffering from urban myth syndrome? I seriously doubt that a ZF costs anywhere near $1000 for a standard service and if it did, we would have heard the cries from BF owners long before now. |
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#111 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Old Sydney Town
Posts: 440
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#112 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,252
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Fair enough Jpd80, All points are valid. I like to hope the old Falcon credentials are still with us in the newer models and running costs are still reasonably affordable like they always were...Otherwise the economical advantages of diesel or lpg would obviously be outweighed.
Last edited by GASWAGON; 31-05-2011 at 10:18 PM. |
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#113 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
different forums and then someone's misfortune suddenly becomes the affliction of all... while I would like to see a diesel V6 Falcon, I can live without it and I'm still keen to see how Ford's other two choices fair in the market, I have a feeling that fleets will love EcoLPi and that a new niche of private buyers may take to the Ecoboost Falcon. In that respect, I'm prepared to give Ford a chance to prove that their choices are the best go forward plan for maximizing Falcon sales. |
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#114 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,225
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Quote:
- A ZF auto requires approx 9 litres of oil to run. The recommended fluid is around $55 per litre depending on the dealer. We know that you need more than the box capacity to do a full and correct flush. BF's had a plastic (yes plastic) pan that had the filter built into it, and the replacement cost was about $250. You could buy and aftermarket pan with removable filter for $350 to make future flushes cheaper. Luckily for FG owners, Ford revised the pan to a metal type with a removable filter to drop the servicing cost. Filter is $120 - $150. Then add the labour costs for the service and its tricky filling procedure. Which must be done when the oil and box is at 30 to 40 degrees. So add it up, you're looking at $850 to $1000 to properly service a ZF with the approved fluid. Ford dont specify any servicing, as they are "sealed for life". But what car enthusiest leaves any fluid in their car "for life". Alot of people use Transmax Z oil in place of the approved fluid. It works for 1/8th, but Castrol won't take responsibility for failures. You can call Ford to check the costs, but they are a long way from the $250 full flush of the 4 speeds of old. There are lots of BF owners that cry when they find out. - As part of the servicing underbody check, the technician is supposed to thoroughly inspect the front lower control arm. They are alloy now. I can't remember the exact dimensions, but a scratch of X cm by X mm deep can cause fatigue in the arm and a replacement is recommended. It's detailed in the literature Ford provided to dealers when the FG's came out. - FG's use some of the same wheels as the BF. Particularly the FPV's. I've personally had 9 buckles and 1 cracked rim on my factory 19" rims. And I know friends who have copped buckles on their 18" rims too. In my case, these buckles mostly came from highway driving and entering the driveway at work with the wheel on the wrong angle. The inner bead of these alloys are not very strong anymore. - Basic front rotors for a BA/BF/FG you can get for what, $60 each if you wanted. The rotors used for the performance brakes (XR6T, XR8, G6ET) are $200 to $300 each. They are good cars. Not everyone will experience these problems or require a ZF tranny service. But its the nature of the beast now that Ford design them for style and appeal over the cheap to repair ruggedness most expect from the Falcons of old. I was quite happy to take my old EL Ghia through the odd basic 4WD goat track and not worry too much. My BF, I'm too afraid to enter a driveway at more than 3km/h for fear of buckling another rim. I knew the majority of the costs and its failings when I bought the car, but not many people do, and its a complete surprise to them when they see a bill and go "but its a Falcon, not a Beemer". |
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#115 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
If you do then as an enthuiast prepared to spend money to protect your investment, $1000 is cheap. A few years back, Land Rover forum was saying ZF sell 20 litres of fluid for around $280 direct, might be worth a look... I am so glad that I don't chase after performance tyres and brakes anymore, stick with the reliable and dependable 17" alloys on the road and never have a problem. The specs in the Ford Territory service guide are a bit different to this, ie.: "Use only automatic transmission fluid which conforms to Ford specification WSS-M2C919-D. Shell R128 Spec M1375.4 meets this specification." Capacity is 8 litres if dry or (from the workshop manual) 3.8 litres for a service refill. Last edited by jpd80; 01-06-2011 at 03:43 AM. |
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#116 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 296
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#117 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 296
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#118 | |||
SiX_iN_a_RoW
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Capalaba Brisbane
Posts: 770
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Quote:
Yep, after 30,000k's your cat converter is already converting less toxins than what it did when it left the factory.
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Oh yeah, my G6ET eats diff bushes for breakfast! |
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#119 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
motor companies have to guarantee emission compliance for a set time, originally that was around 80,000 km but with Euro 3 & 4, that distance now become 100,000 km and with Euro 6 it becomes 160,000 km. |
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#120 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,225
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Quote:
They are listed as sealed for life to keep running costs down in the warranty period. Makes the car more attractive to people with leases. But its the long term owners or 2nd owners that will need to cop the bill. http://www.fordmods.com/download/fil...3997&mode=view If that link works, you can see the condition of the oil removed from a country driven 29,000km old BF N/A XR6. ZF "suggest" oil flushes to "extend the usable life of the box" too. Quote:
The fluid is made by Shell worldwide to ZF's specs and packaged into dealer branded shelf bottles. It's also sold in bulk containers branded as Lifeguard 6. Lifeguard is the ZF branded name for the same fluid. |
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