Ford will bounce back: Graziano - Page 4

jpd80 · 16-03-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

A Billion dollars haven't been spent here on developing PD ..... and T6 program cost over runs have not been taken to well by the 'powers that be'.

The test labs and the new centre are worth about 40 million from memory. Most new engineers are on contract - does that paint a picture ?

With Taxpayers money PD would probably already be "gone". There is no reason that PD can't be done at another centre elsewhere (the UK or Germany for starters).

Lets see who's closer to the mark on the outlook - bookmark this post..

Ford will always paint a rosy picture, the true story is less positive than we may be led to believe !!

So what happened to the near $700 million earned to develop T6 Ranger,
was that all used up on development and over run costs?
Didn't FoA build new facilities for engineering team, new test labs like
emissions, Acoustics and cold weather testing?

I'm just curious because the engineering team are now working on the SUV while
the rest have been involved with at least four other projects away from Australia
leading to the reason they were so time poor on local projects, it could also explain
why certain things don't appear to be coming in FG II due to other deadlines....

Road_Warrior · 16-03-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

So what happened to the near $700 million earned to develop T6 Ranger,

That is not earnings for Ford Australia. Its funds allocated as part of Ford's global product development budget.

Sure it may have been allocated to Ford Australia as the prime contractor, but its expenditure rather than income. You would have to look at work they do for non-Ford customers with their engineering facilities to see this sort of revenue stream.

JPFS1 · 16-03-2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

and T6 program cost over runs have not been taken to well by the 'powers that be'.

'The powers that be'.... of course they know all about the expenditures required to develop FG for example, do you really think they could develop T6 for pretty much the same $$$$...?

Just think about the work involved in T6 and the different variants, the different requirements based on the country of sale etc etc .... 700 million is chicken feed for a program like this.

vztrt · 16-03-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

'The powers that be'.... of course they know all about the expenditures required to develop FG for example, do you really think they could develop T6 for pretty much the same $$$$...?

Just think about the work involved in T6 and the different variants, the different requirements based on the country of sale etc etc .... 700 million is chicken feed for a program like this.

T6 had a huge amount of variants. I agree 700million is chicken feed....if it was so bad doubt they would have got the T6 SUV project.

Gobes32 · 16-03-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

'The powers that be'.... of course they know all about the expenditures required to develop FG for example, do you really think they could develop T6 for pretty much the same $$$$...?

Just think about the work involved in T6 and the different variants, the different requirements based on the country of sale etc etc .... 700 million is chicken feed for a program like this.

The same powers that be that could not develop an IRS for the mustang due to budgeting, etc, yet Ford Oz designed the "Control Blade" with left over change from their lunch orders?

**Fordman1** · 16-03-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

That is not earnings for Ford Australia. Its funds allocated as part of Ford's global product development budget.

Sure it may have been allocated to Ford Australia as the prime contractor, but its expenditure rather than income. You would have to look at work they do for non-Ford customers with their engineering facilities to see this sort of revenue stream.

They got the money "they" quoted for (and spent more).

Swordsman88 · 16-03-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

They got the money "they" quoted for (and spent more).

As i said in my earlier post..this is news how? Cost overurns in these sorts of projects are standard procedure....everyone factors in 10% before you even get going and in some engineering industries anything under 125% of the bid cost is seen as 'acceptable'....

Perhaps Ford Aus was a tad optimistic on its quote in order to get the deal but if the final product is what ford wants i doubt that alone would be a deal breaker for the local pd crew...

Bossxr8 · 16-03-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They said definately no gas before FG2...

I checked up on this today and thats total crap.

LPi goes into production in May, with cars arriving in dealerships come June/July. They cannot afford to wait until the update, they need it as soon as its ready, it is costing them so many sales with LPG being unavailable they cannot afford to wait any longer. There have been no further delays.

Dealers should be the last people you rely on for information, they are usually the last to know.

jpd80 · 16-03-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I checked up on this today and thats total crap.

LPi goes into production in May, with cars arriving in dealerships come June/July. They cannot afford to wait until the update, they need it as soon as its ready, it is costing them so many sales with LPG being unavailable they cannot afford to wait any longer. There have been no further delays.

Thanks for the heads up Bossxr8, that is welcome news and
shows what Ford can do when they are hurting bad enough...

Bossxr8 · 16-03-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

A Billion dollars haven't been spent here on developing PD ..... and T6 program cost over runs have not been taken to well by the 'powers that be'.

The test labs and the new centre are worth about 40 million from memory. Most new engineers are on contract - does that paint a picture ?

With Taxpayers money PD would probably already be "gone". There is no reason that PD can't be done at another centre elsewhere (the UK or Germany for starters).

Lets see who's closer to the mark on the outlook - bookmark this post..

Ford will always paint a rosy picture, the true story is less positive than we may be led to believe !!

Of course the engineers are on contracts, with most of the work being cyclical and various projects in different stages of completion this is just common sense. Holden do the same as i'm sure all the other manufacturers do. They can't always have work for all of them when most models only get major upgrades every 5 years or so.

Road_Warrior · 16-03-2011, 06:40 PM

This delay to the Ecoboost must have been only a recent development - why would Graziano refer to it (see the article in the OP) as arriving later this year if it was delayed??

Road_Warrior · 16-03-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

They got the money "they" quoted for (and spent more).

It's still not income, its budgeted expenditure.

Joe5619 · 16-03-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's still not income, its budgeted expenditure.

Of course it is income.. Ford AUST has provided Ford US with a service. You can't claim all these expenses with no income!! The ATO will have something to say about it!!

Road_Warrior · 16-03-2011, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Of course it is income.. Ford AUST has provided Ford US with a service. You can claim all these expenses with no income!! The ATO will have something to say about it!!

Can or can't? Your post makes no sense.

Joe5619 · 16-03-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Can or can't? Your post makes no sense.

sorry.. fixed it.. Can't

phillyc · 17-03-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

LPi goes into production in May, with cars arriving in dealerships come June/July. They cannot afford to wait until the update, they need it as soon as its ready, it is costing them so many sales with LPG being unavailable they cannot afford to wait any longer. There have been no further delays.

This is fantastic news. I'm not sure about how fixed the production ratio can or needs to be between SZ Territory, FG Falcon sedans and utes. (I remember someone saying either late 2009 / early 2010 that one Saturday shift the vast majority were Territory.)

But, maybe of the planned Falcons, they can build 80% EcoLPi just to get them out there for 2 or 3 months. Hopefully, there will be a big potential order bank of LPi sedans and utes. Let the remaining 20% petrol & the overstock take care of the rest during that time.

There have been several variations of what the monthly LPG take up was. In short it was ~400 sedans or 20% and 400 utes or 40%.

Brazen · 17-03-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

This is fantastic news. I'm not sure about how fixed the production ratio can or needs to be between SZ Territory, FG Falcon sedans and utes. (I remember someone saying either late 2009 / early 2010 that one Saturday shift the vast majority were Territory.)

But, maybe of the planned Falcons, they can build 80% EcoLPi just to get them out there for 2 or 3 months. Hopefully, there will be a big potential order bank of LPi sedans and utes. Let the remaining 20% petrol & the overstock take care of the rest during that time.

There have been several variations of what the monthly LPG take up was. In short it was ~400 sedans or 20% and 400 utes or 40%.

What perfect timing to reintroduce the RTV with the new LPG or with FG2 (please!).

Hopefully we see a lot of Falcon utes being ordered now. Great news.

Bossxr8 · 17-03-2011, 07:58 PM

With the new Ranger just months away an RTV ute has no chance.

phillyc · 17-03-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

With the new Ranger just months away an RTV ute has no chance.

Yeah, my work had heaps of RTV utes. We have now switched over to Ranger. The ability to have extra cab, 2wd and 4wd etc have been real winners. In some ways, it's consolidated 2 vehicles. Simplifying it for fleet. It has also meant that what previously might have been a Colorado or Hilux has in some cases been replaced by 4WD Ranger.

PS I loved the RTV!

Brazen · 17-03-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Yeah, I work for a very large energy corporate and we have ~2,000 vehicles in that we had heaps of RTV utes. We have now switched over to Ranger. The ability to have extra cab, 2wd and 4wd etc have been real winners. In some ways, it's consolidated 2 vehicles. Simplifying it for fleet. It has also meant that what previously might have been a Colorado or Hilux has in some cases been replaced by 4WD Ranger.

Yes, same position as you although the fleet isnt as large. Jiust before the FG came out the RTV got the nod due to safety rating and LPG. When they cancelled RTV with FG we stayed with the Hilux. Actually I think the reason I joined Ford Forums was to find out what was happening with the RTV due to the time I spent at work arguing for it....?It would of meant dozens and dozens of RTVs over 12 months as the fleet was renewed. We were offered Ranger as a substitute but that was no reason to change from the Hilux.

vztrt · 18-03-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

But, maybe of the planned Falcons, they can build 80% EcoLPi just to get them out there for 2 or 3 months.

That would probably be tough as the tank installation is quite time consuming. But it might be easier now with only running 270 a day then it was back in the days of 550/340.

Buntz · 18-03-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yes, same position as you although the fleet isnt as large. Jiust before the FG came out the RTV got the nod due to safety rating and LPG. When they cancelled RTV with FG we stayed with the Hilux. Actually I think the reason I joined Ford Forums was to find out what was happening with the RTV due to the time I spent at work arguing for it....?It would of meant dozens and dozens of RTVs over 12 months as the fleet was renewed. We were offered Ranger as a substitute but that was no reason to change from the Hilux.

RTV was only ever a test in the Territory development wasn't it?

If only Ranger was made of the Territory platform.

jpd80 · 18-03-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

If only Ute was made on the Territory platform.

There, fixed it for ya......

Buntz · 18-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

If only Ranger, and Ute was made off the Territory platform.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

There, fixed it for ya......

Re fixed.

jpd80 · 18-03-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Re fixed.

I'd love to see the T6 SUV called "Explorer" and built here in Australia,
I think it and Territory would be the perfect pair for Aussie production.

Buntz · 18-03-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd love to see the T6 SUV called "Explorer" and built here in Australia,
I think it and Territory would be the perfect pair for Aussie production.

It does have an Explorer look to it. But it would really have to have that off road stylised look to it.

How are things over on FAF? PaulST still a dick?

jpd80 · 18-03-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

It does have an Explorer look to it. But it would really have to have that off road stylised look to it.

How are things over on FAF? PaulST still a dick?

Yeah, I thought with an American leading the T6 team, the styling would reflect a modern BOF Explorer.

(On the other matter, I have never had a problem with Paul,
I know you two have issues and I won't be buying into it. )

Buntz · 18-03-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yeah, I thought with an American leading the T6 team, the styling would reflect a modern BOF Explorer.

Really? I thought it was an all Aussie team. Still It's a handsome thing. Shame it has nothing to really go up against these days.

jpd80 · 18-03-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Really? I thought it was an all Aussie team. Still It's a handsome thing. Shame it has nothing to really go up against these days.

Yep, Todd Hoevener

Quote:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577700025F4DF
GoAuto understands the project will be headed by Ford Motor Company vehicle engineering manager and SUV specialist Todd Hoevener, who has just signed off on the all-new Ford Explorer launched this week in the United States.

Mr Hoevener, an American born in Indiana, has confirmed he is coming to Australia for the new project, adding: “This is going to be fun.”

Paxton · 18-03-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'd love to see the T6 SUV called "Explorer" and built here in Australia,
I think it and Territory would be the perfect pair for Aussie production.

Can't do it in Australia John. There isn't much point when the Ranger is made in Thailand anyway.

RTV and Territory are only related in the fact that they are both developed off the Falcon platform. RTV still had Falcon front and rear suspension, and the Wagon/Ute wheelbase. Territory had unique front suspension, and a development of the Control Blade IRS in the rear.