New Ford Mondeo More Than Just Good Looks - Page 4

autolover08 · 15-10-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Agreed, I cannot think of a FWD sedan that even comes close. I still have no idea why people buy camry's and corrola's, yeah they are reliable and efficient (nothing out standing BTW); but thats all they have going for them. :togo:

Anyway, the Mondeo is awesome, and Im sure Fords targets are not massive.

edit: my mistake about the platform, would have thought that would have been common by now, Regardless, it shows that the Mondeo is a great car.

Go and look on youtube for mondeo + topgear.

Precisely...most vehicles in this day and age are all very similar for reliability.
Marketing and perceptions play a big role on what people buy. I have a little more faith in Ford getting the marketing right with mondeo this time around, besides the meduim passenger market is a very different one to when the previous mondeo was on sale.
It was like the previous corolla, one review said if people actually drove the corollas competition, they wouldn't have bought a corolla!
All good about the platorm...many people are confused about it.
I can't wait to drive the mondeo...
Many Holden fans on GMI were predicting Ford couldn't or wouldn't price mondeo competitively, they did and did a great job, lets hope they follow through with marketing.
LuckyHolden has a the strong selling VE, otherwise they have no other vehicle in their range they can fall back on, they would wanna hope the orion doesn't eat into Ve sales too much.
I think Ford has the better long term focus than Holden in relation to overall product offerings at this point.

Perana · 15-10-2007, 03:52 PM

New Mondeo is built on EUCD Platform, shared with the Volvo S80, other Euro Fords eg. SMAX and a couple Land Rovers.

The current Mazda 6 is built on CD3 (which was developed by Mazda), shared among some other Mazda's, US Fords and Lincolns. The next Mazda 6 is built on CD32, a development of CD3.

CD3 is due to be replaced by EUCD2 (dev of EUCD) sometime around 2010-2012.

On paper EUCD is a much better platform than CD3.

autolover08 · 15-10-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

New Mondeo is built on EUCD Platform, shared with the Volvo S80, other Euro Fords eg. SMAX and a couple Land Rovers.

The current Mazda 6 is built on CD3 (which was developed by Mazda), shared among some other Mazda's, US Fords and Lincolns. The next Mazda 6 is built on CD32, a development of CD3.

CD3 is due to be replaced by EUCD2 (dev of EUCD) sometime around 2010-2012.

On paper EUCD is a much better platform than CD3.

Thats it, thank you. I personally prefer double wishbone front suspension that the mazda 6 has ( like BF falcon) as opposed to simple front stuts of the mondeo, but Ford knows how to tune the hardware they have, so the concern for me is irelevant.
The biggest issue the Mazda 6 has is intrusive road rumble, hopefully mazda has fixed this issue with the new 6.
I also read today that the new 6 won't have a 6 speed auto that was rumoured rather it will have carry over the 5 speed auto...not sure how accurate this is.
I'd be very interested to see which will be the ultimate dynamic champ, the 6 or mondeo!? keep in mind the mondeo is basically a bigger and heavier car than than the new 6.

autolover08 · 15-10-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaqxr6

I'll happily eat my words if Ford succeed with this....but i'll tell you now, its only the blind Ford supporters, who's numbers are dwindling with every new dud Ford releases, that will be on this bandwagon. Cmon folks, are you telling me that this thing is in the same league as the Mazda 6, Toyota Camry or Honda Accord...... surely consumers can't be that inept at spotting the odd one out in that lineup.

Dud reputation, dud styling, dud marketing, dud resale...... and which of those statements is subjective....the styling.... so personal tastes aside, don't try and tell me that the odds are in this cars favor when clearly, any betting man would put their money on, well, ANYTHING else.

Didn't you say this?
Now i would like you to back this rant up with facts and not just your arrogant opinion...

:
Forget sales for one moment, look at the abilities of mondeo and it's competitiors, without being biased.
Styling is certainly subjective, but i have to say that the camry imo is not a better looking car than the mondeo inside or out.
Now look at sales...500 a month, do you think Ford can pull that off? Holden has done about 300-400 epicas from what i believe, so how about you wait and see how it does in the market place, then you can come back and rant all you like.
Remember Holden tried the 'give the epica back if your not satisfied' marketing trick? and it didn't work, yes they can market well, but failed with the epica thus far.

blaqxr6 · 15-10-2007, 04:13 PM

Ford struggles with marketing, resale, build quality and styling......historically this is true of Ford Australia. Thats my point....it is a FACT..... you've conceded this yourself autolover08...

"and i'd say build quality that at least matches the camry."

(Ford has lacked build quality compared to Toyota, Mazda or Honda....be honest)

"the only thing i can think of that camry has over mondeo is the toyota name, resale and projector headlights!"

(you said it...resale and reputation)

"In my opinion if the new mondeo doesn't sell well, it won't be the fault of the car itself...marketing or the general public will be to blame."

(marketing...mate, you said it!)

If this car suffers from the same shortfalls, then its doomed- how much clearer can i be? I can't stand the bland Camry, but when it comes to Ford, there a more people that are 'once bitten, twice shy' that there are loyal Ford supporters.

So look, i'm taking the subjectiveness of the styling out of the equation and saying that chances are, Ford will make a mess of this.

blaqxr6 · 15-10-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autolover08

Didn't you say this?
Now i would like you to back this rant up with facts and not just your arrogant opinion...

:
Forget sales for one moment, look at the abilities of mondeo and it's competitiors, without being biased.
Styling is certainly subjective, but i have to say that the camry imo is not a better looking car than the mondeo inside or out.
Now look at sales...500 a month, do you think Ford can pull that off? Holden has done about 300-400 epicas from what i believe, so how about you wait and see how it does in the market place, then you can come back and rant all you like.
Remember Holden tried the 'give the epica back if your not satisfied' marketing trick? and it didn't work, yes they can market well, but failed with the epica thus far.

Have i mentioned Holden? No.
This whole discussion is speculative......so i'll say it again, personal tastes aside, don't try and tell me that the odds are in this cars favor.

Yes, i'm saying the average consumer would buy a similarly classed Mazda, Honda or Toyota over the Mondeo.

autolover08 · 15-10-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaqxr6

Ford struggles with marketing, resale, build quality and styling......historically this is true of Ford Australia. Thats my point....it is a FACT..... you've conceded this yourself autolover08...

"and i'd say build quality that at least matches the camry."

(Ford has lacked build quality compared to Toyota, Mazda or Honda....be honest)

"the only thing i can think of that camry has over mondeo is the toyota name, resale and projector headlights!"

(you said it...resale and reputation)

"In my opinion if the new mondeo doesn't sell well, it won't be the fault of the car itself...marketing or the general public will be to blame."

(marketing...mate, you said it!)

If this car suffers from the same shortfalls, then its doomed- how much clearer can i be? I can't stand the bland Camry, but when it comes to Ford, there a more people that are 'once bitten, twice shy' that there are loyal Ford supporters.

So look, i'm taking the subjectiveness of the styling out of the equation and saying that chances are, Ford will make a mess of this.

Are you living in the 80s and 90s??
The mondeo has the quality to fight the new 6 and camry, ok? don't even mention the epica. So let go of the quality argument, as thats all you want to do is bate an argument.
Reputation is not the fault of mondeo, perceptions, like yours are hard to change but doesn't Ford has to start somewhere? and try again?
Would you prefer Ford do what Holden did and rebadge a cheaper car and have stellar marketing?
Half the battle is won, the mondeo is a great car, rather than being an average or below average car to start with, understand?
So you like the rest of us should settle down and wait for Ford to start marketing the mondeo and then you can judge, ok?

So let me get this clear...your predicting the mondeo to failure based on marketing and reputation/perception alone?
Right, my opinion still stands on you being just a little arrogant and close minded if thats the case.
The previous mondeo didn't sell in great numbers but there wasn't anything wrong with the car itself fundamentally.

By the way you don't need to be a 'loyal Ford supporter' in order to understand the strengths and weaknesses on the new mondeo and Ford itself.

FordFella · 15-10-2007, 04:27 PM

Blaq XR6 you'll be suprised. Look at the Focus, initially it didn't sell too well but since the stock has been up its been selling like crazy. The Fiesta however still comes from Germany (where it is the most popular car) with a lack of supply, so it doesn't sell too well. Plus the obvious one, the Falcon/Territory, which both have below par resale (esp the Falcon), and that dreaded Ford name you keep talking about. And both outsell Toyota in there segments.
If there is enough supply for the mondeo, you can at least expect ~500 a month.

autolover08 · 15-10-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaqxr6

Have i mentioned Holden? No.
This whole discussion is speculative......so i'll say it again, personal tastes aside, don't try and tell me that the odds are in this cars favor.

Yes, i'm saying the average consumer would buy a similarly classed Mazda, Honda or Toyota over the Mondeo.

Yes i'm telling you the odds are in favour of the mondeo...you want to know why i think that?

So you think Holden has better marketing than Ford? if Holden does it certainly didn't help the viva or epica out too well...
If you don't think Holden has better marketing it would appear Ford isn't the only one thats slack at vehicle marketing.

Look at Holden and the epica...Holden sells the cheaper, inferior epica at around 300-400 units a month, assuming these are just retail sales.
Mazda sell around 1000 units of the 6 a month at a higher price point, primarily retail sales.
Honda sells around 500-600 euro accords a month at a higher price point, primarily retails sales.
Toyota sells around 2000-3000 units of camry per month, retail and heavy fleet sales, rental included at the a spec disadvantage.

Now...Ford wants only 500 units a month for mondeo, i'd say mainly retail sales, at a very competitive price point...
The mondeo is a better package than camry, epica the current 6. until the new 6 arrives it is close to class leader.

Now if Ford does even an average job on marketing, i don't see how the mondeo with the broad range of body styles, the fundamental package, including diesel, excellent pricing and value...how they CAN"T pull 500 units a month?
Ford doesn't want a high volume seller in mondeo like the camry, they seem to be targeting the more niche players like Mazda, Honda and VW with the type of car the mondeo is.
So i ask you how you come to the early assumption that mondeo will be a big failure??

blaqxr6 · 15-10-2007, 05:17 PM

Well i honestly do hope this car sells well, and for that matter, any Ford. And they may well have a far superior product, technically, accessory wise, options etc but the market isn't that simple.

Ford need to mend some pretty deep wounds that have been inflicted on their paying customers before being trusted again and this will take time.

I'm hopeful that this is a start, but one guy sucking in his gutt and pushing out his chest declaring that the Modeo is the best this, the best that, the best thing since sliced bread, isn't going to sell cars because its going take a hell of a lot more than that. And 500 units is pretty damn weak for a company like Ford.....bloody hell, we're talking about an automotive institution here!

And, well, i personally think that the japs just do everything to do with this class too well at the moment for the Mondeo to have an immediate impact. In the right stable, i'm sure this car would do brilliantly.......but lets not forget that this is Ford Australia we're talking about.

Bucknaked · 15-10-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

I'll take an XR5T thanks!

Hopefully it has cruise unlike the Focus XR5T

LT model has Cruise. LS Version doesn't

Miyagi · 15-10-2007, 06:50 PM

Going to sell really well as a good alternative to the falcon methinks. The XR5T is well styled although the Diesel is probably the pick of the bunch for $$$ savings.

Martyvan · 15-10-2007, 07:07 PM

A LOT of people will step down (price wise anyway) into a Mondeo from a 407, Passat, C5, Accord Euro, maybe even educated (i.e. not badge chasers) people who thought about buying an AUDI A3/4, BMW3 or MERC C class.

Its a classy car, has a great price, great standard features, And if supply can be kept up, be a fantastic addition to the Ford Range.

blaqxr6: I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I think you are a blue blood from way back, and either yourself or someone you know, has had an absolute Lemon from Ford at some stage, and that is causing your obvious hatred toward either the brand or Fords techniques for selling.

This car will sell, just think of all the EX pat Poms living in Australia, that in itself will sell half of the 500 Ford think they might move... And I would say this car will fall into the category of a high % of private buyers market, which will make it a profitable car to sell as well.

Anyway, Theres my 5.5c (inc GST) into the tin...

Cheers
Marty

Mr S'side Ford · 15-10-2007, 07:22 PM

how can these fools gaurantee failure on a car not yet released??? the public will vote with there dollars wont they.

Bossxr8 · 15-10-2007, 08:32 PM

Ford set a target of 500 and they consider that very conservative, they know it should easily do better they just didn't want to set the bar to high.

Also on a side note the new Mazda 6 won't go on sale here until late next year, so the Mondeo has a year to establish itself before it has to compete with a new 6.

Sloth · 15-10-2007, 08:39 PM

I caught a glimpse of a brand new white Mondeo wagon today, sticking half out of a workshop. The first I've seen.

autolover08 · 16-10-2007, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaqxr6

Well i honestly do hope this car sells well, and for that matter, any Ford. And they may well have a far superior product, technically, accessory wise, options etc but the market isn't that simple.

Ford need to mend some pretty deep wounds that have been inflicted on their paying customers before being trusted again and this will take time.

I'm hopeful that this is a start, but one guy sucking in his gutt and pushing out his chest declaring that the Modeo is the best this, the best that, the best thing since sliced bread, isn't going to sell cars because its going take a hell of a lot more than that. And 500 units is pretty damn weak for a company like Ford.....bloody hell, we're talking about an automotive institution here!

And, well, i personally think that the japs just do everything to do with this class too well at the moment for the Mondeo to have an immediate impact. In the right stable, i'm sure this car would do brilliantly.......but lets not forget that this is Ford Australia we're talking about.

Well if i had a beer gut, you maybe half way right...

Now your questioning the monthly sales target Ford has set on mondoes? yet your telling everyone how the Japs do this segment better and how the mondeo will struggle?
Take a look at the monthly sales figures i posted for many other competitior models in this market segment and have a think about your comment.

How about you accept the fact mondeo is a very competitive package, regardless of how you feel towards Ford and it's marketing abilities...
Time will tell how Ford abilities pan out, at this stage Ford has a fully competitive product in mondeo, no one can fault the car itself.

LeadFoot81 · 16-10-2007, 08:48 AM

Ford have pushed the Territory hard since it came out, and this year theyve been pushing the Fiesta and Focus too.

You cant blame Ford Oz for pushing its 'bread and butter' car that its invested millions into. If Falcon falters, the Territory could go with it. Times ARE changing, Ford have to find a balance between pushing the whole range/oushing specific models that need the extra 'oomph' to get over the line. I believe they will push the Mondeo hard as well, give Ford a go they're getting better, slowly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

In my opinion and I hope to the high heavens I am wrong, but the Mondeo won't succeed. Not because of the looks, price or features, anyone with half a brain would realise it's twice as good as the falcon equivalent.
It will fail because of Ford Australia, their mindset is still stuck with the Falcon, they still seem to believe it to be the way to go. Wakeup Ford, the falcon is not going to sell like it used to even with Orion, there are too many better cars out there for the $$ and people's buying preferences have changed. Sure the XR6T, 8 and FPV's will sell but the base models just don't cut the mustard anymore and it is time to move with the times.

So until Ford realise they have a decent range of cars in their lineup besides the falcon and start marketing them properly, they simply will fail, ok fail may be harsh but they won't meet expectations and Ford will withdraw them from sale. We saw that with the first gen focus released here, ok it didn't quite fail but it didn't light a fire under the sales figures like it should have. They marketed the second gen a lot better and sales have picked up a lot more.

My hats off to Holden and Toyota, they can market a car and sell quite a lot of them. Aurion for example and Captiva.

So c'mon Ford, get out of the falcon and spread the love among the rest of the range.

autolover08 · 16-10-2007, 09:03 AM

Agreed.
Many forget that Holden isn't perfect for marketing also, take a look at viva and epica they aren't selling well at all.
Is that the fault of marketing or product combined?
The captiva has a diesel compared to territory and is 2 years newer yet is doing just ok...
When you have a great product half the battle is won...Ford has a better chance than Holden to crack the midsize segment at this point.
Ford marketed the territory well, the focus and BA falcon.

Disciple · 16-10-2007, 09:16 AM

Er, delete.

**Polyal** · 16-10-2007, 09:19 AM

Delete as above^^^

Disciple · 16-10-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

WTF?

They have only spent time, and a little bit of marketing.

FPV F6x was cheapish to do, a diesel is far more costly and will come in time.

I meant to post that in the other thread. It costs money to change anything mate, including what engine goes into a car. The money would of been better spent elsewhere IMO because it will be such a low selling car - maybe 200-600 a year.

**Polyal** · 16-10-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disciple

I meant to post that in the other thread. It costs money to change anything mate, including what engine goes into a car. The money would of been better spent elsewhere IMO because it will be such a low selling car - maybe 200-600 a year.

Ill reply in the other thread

Homer1 · 16-10-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autolover08

Please do tell me why you wouldn't buy this over an epica, camry or even a euro accord!?

Please do tell me why you wouldn't buy this over an epica (definitely yes!), camry (yes) or even a euro accord (no way!!!)!?

autolover08 · 16-10-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer1

Please do tell me why you wouldn't buy this over an epica (definitely yes!), camry (yes) or even a euro accord (no way!!!)!?

I guess you would be talking about the 2.3 petrol 4cyl mondeo sedan then?...not the diesel, the hatch or the 2.5 5cyl turbo...

ardei · 30-11-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloth

I caught a glimpse of a brand new white Mondeo wagon today, sticking half out of a workshop. The first I've seen.

Just bumping an old thread instead of starting a new one...

No-one will believe me without pics but I saw a Mondeo Wagon (Estate?) driving on the main road in Geelong on Tuesday. It didn't have special plates, or a car bra, or anything to suggest it was undergoing development testing. It looked like any other privately owned car, however when I checked the Ford website they don't offer the wagon yet?

It was in the standard blue/silver hue you see on the ads for the Mondeo and to be honest it didn't look too enticing in wagon form (and I don't mind wagons). Reminded me of a Mazda 6 Wagon, just seemed a bit 'soft' from the rear.

Martyvan · 30-11-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardei

No-one will believe me without pics but I saw a Mondeo Wagon (Estate?)

I believe you, Its only a matter of time until it is actually released... and then, Its on like Donkey Kong, people will have a car (not including 4wd/AWD Softies) alternative to the traditional 6 cylinder wagon.
We know spec will be good, as it will match the others, but price will be the most important thing. And space will be significant for passengers and luggage.

Disciple · 30-11-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martyvan

I believe you, Its only a matter of time until it is actually released... and then, Its on like Donkey Kong, people will have a car (not including 4wd/AWD Softies) alternative to the traditional 6 cylinder wagon.
We know spec will be good, as it will match the others, but price will be the most important thing. And space will be significant for passengers and luggage.

Mitsubishi have made a Lancer wagon for years (not with the new CJ Lancer) Same with Peugot, Subaru, Toyota, Audi - all of which can be had as 4 cylinders.

FordFella · 30-11-2007, 06:01 PM

Manual would be nice too, but then Aurion sales beg to differ.

Bossxr8 · 30-11-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardei

Just bumping an old thread instead of starting a new one...

No-one will believe me without pics but I saw a Mondeo Wagon (Estate?) driving on the main road in Geelong on Tuesday. It didn't have special plates, or a car bra, or anything to suggest it was undergoing development testing. It looked like any other privately owned car, however when I checked the Ford website they don't offer the wagon yet?

It was in the standard blue/silver hue you see on the ads for the Mondeo and to be honest it didn't look too enticing in wagon form (and I don't mind wagons). Reminded me of a Mazda 6 Wagon, just seemed a bit 'soft' from the rear.

Don't be suprised, Ford test a number of vehicles that aren't on sale here. I've seen Mustangs and various Lincolns etc around Product Engineering. I saw a Mondeo going down High St about 3 months before it was released.